Shannon Bridge Roundabout

johndaman66

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The standard of driving seems to get worse the further up the country you get. Galway is far worse than Limerick (or maybe it's more roundabouts).

Christ the standard of driving must be pretty poor in Galway so if thats the case!

Peoples misuse of roundabouts is my number one pet hate on the roads. Followed by people who don't seem to want to or are very slow to dip their lights to oncoming traffic at night...and there seems to be plenty of them too.

Jofspring

johndaman66 wrote: »

Is it just me or do other people reckon the pedestrian crossings being just after the exits on the Groody roundabout in Castletroy are just lethal, being so close to the roundabout. I hope not but I can forsee a pedestrian being killed or seriously injured crossing there at some stage.

I think it is ridiculous having crossings so close to the roundabouts. Most people when on a roundabout are trying to concentrate on the traffic around them, getting onto the roundabout and exiting the roundabout, and possibly having to switch lanes on larger roundabouts. With the amount of people that use the wrong lanes and try cut in in front of other drives i can definitely see somebody being killed. A small drop in concentration and somebody stepping out on the crossing could easily cause an accident.

Mc Love

There's roundabouts with traffic lights on them at Dublin Airport and in Swords (near the pavillions) and they work pretty well.

But I guess the reason for putting traffic lights at this roundabout would be to not make it work well

Liam Byrne

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

There shouldn't be three lanes going onto one on the bridge, it should be two lanes filtering into one with one of those lanes predominately used for going onto the quays. The left lane on mallow street is left turn only, ie, dock road only, really annoys me when people cut across it as it's pretty lethal as you point out.

Absolutely! It's a recipe for disaster when someone doesn't use this correctly.

Mind you, this is the junction that - when it was first opened - had "N69 & N18 use both lanes" - i.e. a left-hand lane car could be going straight ahead while a car in the middle lane could be going left!!! Recipe for disaster until they copped themselves on!

The other thing that bugs me is that if you do - correctly and legally - use the right-hand lane to go out over the bridge and proceed properly, the car in the middle lane will almost always accelerate and blow you and make nasty gestures.

I'm not saying that I agree with having the right-hand lane as a "go over the bridge lane", but it's the way that junction works, and I've lost count of the time that some idiot has objected to me using the right-hand lane and trying to merge safely.

Mc Love

Jofspring wrote: »

I think it is ridiculous having crossings so close to the roundabouts. Most people when on a roundabout are trying to concentrate on the traffic around them, getting onto the roundabout and exiting the roundabout, and possibly having to switch lanes on larger roundabouts. With the amount of people that use the wrong lanes and try cut in in front of other drives i can definitely see somebody being killed. A small drop in concentration and somebody stepping out on the crossing could easily cause an accident.

Its the exact same at the roundabout at Kilmurry lodge! Utter nightmare the amount of pedestrians and traffic you have to look out for. There has been some near fender benders there.

Amazotheamazing

Jofspring wrote: »

I think it is ridiculous having crossings so close to the roundabouts. Most people when on a roundabout are trying to concentrate on the traffic around them, getting onto the roundabout and exiting the roundabout, and possibly having to switch lanes on larger roundabouts. With the amount of people that use the wrong lanes and try cut in in front of other drives i can definitely see somebody being killed. A small drop in concentration and somebody stepping out on the crossing could easily cause an accident.

I think the problem is Irish drivers aren't taught how to drive on roundabouts correctly. You should never be driving "through" a roundabout at such speed as to make braking difficult if you see someone at a pedestrian light.

I lived in France for a bit and every roundabout is also an unmarked pedestrian crossing, drivers expect pedestrians to cross at them and drive accordingly.

Imo, they are the best place on a road for a crossing, except for a traffic light junction because any other place on a road will have cars slowing from a higher speed to accommodate people crossing the road, for example, if they were 200m's from a roundabout most cars would have built up considerable speed and would have other traffic travelling at speed behind them.

The fault isn't in their placement, it's in the standard of driving.

Raiser

Maybe the critical infrastructural decision which impacts the City and multiple Counties was allowed to be made by the Residents of Carew Park again?

- Anyway I wouldn't worry too much, if its utterly stupid, nonsensical, downright dangerous, wastes a pile of money and totally inefficient then Limericks Public Servants will definitely get the job done.

thesimpsons

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The other thing that bugs me is that if you do - correctly and legally - use the right-hand lane to go out over the bridge and proceed properly, the car in the middle lane will almost always accelerate and blow you and make nasty gestures.

you and I must be one of the few people who use this lane. Its perfectly workable, its clearly signalled but some drivers take major exception to drivers who take this lane.

One of the other problems with roundabouts in this country is that there are so many variations to them. Alot of roundabouts don't have just the clock formation of 4 on/off roads, so many of them have an extra one thrown in (dock road onto Tunnel, moylish roundabout, Clonmacken roundabout, roundabout by B&Q) or only 3 exit routes (roundabout after Casey's furniture). Our rules of the road don't allow for these type of roundabouts, they only cover the 4 road entries/exits. Rules state if "going straight on" - straight ahead is often not the 2nd exit.

Liam Byrne

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think the problem is Irish drivers aren't taught how to drive on roundabouts correctly. You should never be driving "through" a roundabout at such speed as to make braking difficult if you see someone at a pedestrian light.

That would be fine except for the fact that it's illegal to stop on a roundabout.

So if there's one car stopped at said pedestrian crossing, what is someone who "uses roundabouts correctly" meant to do ?

There should be no pedestrian crossings within 100 yards of a roundabout.

munstergirl

Your not ment to stop on a roundabout, you keep driving around
Anytime i use shannon bridge roundabout i find it fine.
The only roundabout i hate is parkway. Its nuts!

Amazotheamazing

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That would be fine except for the fact that it's illegal to stop on a roundabout.

So if there's one car stopped at said pedestrian crossing, what is someone who "uses roundabouts correctly" meant to do ?

There should be no pedestrian crossings within 100 yards of a roundabout.

Not enter until it's clear to exit?

It's all well and good saying they should be 100 yards away but that would be more dangerous imo as cars would have picked up speed and be back in traffic when they'd have to stop again. Cars a meant to be relatively slow moving exiting a roundabout.

Insect Overlord

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's all well and good saying they should be 100 yards away but that would be more dangerous imo as cars would have picked up speed and be back in traffic when they'd have to stop again.

They actually are putting down another pedestrian crossing 100 yards away! The junction by Salesians has been under work for the last fortnight. It's going to have traffic lights on it, I know, but it's still ridiculously close to the other one.

Amazotheamazing

Insect Overlord wrote: »

They actually are putting down another pedestrian crossing 100 yards away! The junction by Salesians has been under work for the last fortnight. It's going to have traffic lights on it, I know, but it's still ridiculously close to the other one.

That's at a junction though.

The pedestrian lights out by Barrington's pier are an example of what I mean, it's usual to see cars breaking the speed limit on that stretch of road.

concussion

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think the problem is Irish drivers aren't taught how to drive on roundabouts correctly. You should never be driving "through" a roundabout at such speed as to make braking difficult if you see someone at a pedestrian light.

I lived in France for a bit and every roundabout is also an unmarked pedestrian crossing, drivers expect pedestrians to cross at them and drive accordingly.

Imo, they are the best place on a road for a crossing, except for a traffic light junction because any other place on a road will have cars slowing from a higher speed to accommodate people crossing the road, for example, if they were 200m's from a roundabout most cars would have built up considerable speed and would have other traffic travelling at speed behind them.

The fault isn't in their placement, it's in the standard of driving.

I wish I could thank you twice.

Another good reason they are on the roundabout is because pedestrians aren't going to walk 100 m up the road and back down the other side, they will simply cross there anyway. A foot bridge may accomodate some people, but those in wheelchairs will need a significant ramp and those carrying heavy shopping won't bother.

kilburn

The biggest problem with Irish drivers is that some of them never did a test and got a free licence. How many people here have been behind someone who enters a roundabout in the wrong lane, doesnt indicate, speeds up when you are overtaking them and hogs the white line. Age group reflects the problem. Younger drivers have had much more training and testing, while I saw this I am also aware that the theory test is a joke but you have to read it at least.

yammagamma

zebra crossing on shannon bridge is a night mare waiting to happen. when you are driving from dock road turning left over bridge your focus is to your right as that is where traffic is coming from and the powers to be stick a zebra crossing to your left..
im a professional driver and this stupidly behaviour in planning is putting my health and safety at risk, the roads are my work place but health and safety law seems not to cover us professional drivers. ie work place deaths do not count professional drivers killed on roads..
my last few days....i was behind a driver last friday at 4.15 pm coming from the dublin side and the vehicle in front of me tried to go fully the wrong way around the roundabout at finnegans pub, no joke it was like something out of a carry on movie..then on monday heading out of town i turned off dock road at new roundabout to head towards tipp road and on the slip road too join new motorway road a women driver was heading straight towards me she either did a u turn on slip road or turned left after new flyover crossed dockroad and drove straight towards all traffic, i pulled up in middle of road put on hazzards and got her to turn around again so she was driving with flow of traffic..this is my 5th time meeting traffic driving towards me on a motorway and everytime it has been a old women..

Berty

Problems I see with this roundabout

(1) Pedestrian Crossings should not exist
(2) There should only be 2 lanes on Mallow Street and not 3. Currently there is a lane for going out the Dock Road a lane going over the bridge and a lane which can also go over the bridge(somehow) but which also facilitates people turning right.

Accessing the roundabout from Russells Quay or Lower Mallow Street is very difficult because of the nearly constant flow coming from the bridge. The only saving grace is the pedestrian crossing but then again, like mentioned already, I disagree with it.

Traffic lights are NOT the way forward here.

Leave the roundabout as it is and tidy up the lanes on Lower Mallow Street.

I sent an e-mail to Limerick City Council previously and told them they should widen the lanes coming over the bridge because the outbound lane was far too wide anyway. They replied "we will look into it". 6 months later they did it.

I should really send them an e-mail telling them to "leave it well alone"

Amazotheamazing

yammagamma wrote: »

zebra crossing on shannon bridge is a night mare waiting to happen. when you are driving from dock road turning left over bridge your focus is to your right as that is where traffic is coming from and the powers to be stick a zebra crossing to your left..

Your focus should be on both directions, people should not be racing through roundabouts, all the cars should be going pretty slowly.

That being said, I think James Nix, the Green party candidate in the last local elections wanted the railings on that path changed as they can obscure visability, makes sense.

Agree about old women drivers, hazards, every single one of them.

Amazotheamazing

Berty wrote: »

(1) Pedestrian Crossings should not exist

People are always going to cross the road at the bridge, whether it's kids going to Ardscoil and Salesians and the skate park etc or people going into town.

On that stretch of road (from the roundabout to Barrington's pier) there's several places where pedestrians make lethal and nonsensical crossings. I think the pedestrian lights are a better alternative to having kids leg it in between cars, tbh.

if you didn't have a crossing at the bridge, where would you have it?

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

if you didn't have a crossing at the bridge, where would you have it?

The thread is about the roundabout. Pedestrian Crossings and roundabouts do not mix.

Amazotheamazing

Berty wrote: »

The thread is about the roundabout. Pedestrian Crossings and roundabouts do not mix.

I disagree, I think often they are the best place on a busy road to put a crossing. As a driver of course I can do without them, but roads serve other users too.

There's a lot of children using the that crossing every day for schools and the skate park, it's a fair question to ask where would have been better. If it was down as far as westfields, people on the quay would still be darting across between cars.

Same applies to the crossings by Singland and Chawkes, sure as driver they aren't ideal, but where should pedestrians cross in their absence?

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

but where should pedestrians cross in their absence?

Not on the roundabout. Back from the roundabout would be fine. People will always try to take the shortest route possible and if they are too lazy to walk to a safe crossing then enact the Jaywalking rule. That's what it is there for.

Nobody should simply build a crossing at an unsafe location just because people wont bother going elsewhere. Thats lazy and irresponsible.

Amazotheamazing

Berty wrote: »

Not on the roundabout. Back from the roundabout would be fine. People will always try to take the shortest route possible and if they are too lazy to walk to a safe crossing then enact the Jaywalking rule. That's what it is there for.

Nobody should simply build a crossing at an unsafe location just because people wont bother going elsewhere. Thats lazy and irresponsible.

On the bridge itself? Is that even legal?

As I've pointed out, it's not an unsafe location for a crossing, bad driving makes it so.

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

On the bridge itself? Is that even legal?

As I've pointed out, it's not an unsafe location for a crossing, bad driving makes it so.

You and I will have to agree to disagree and it being safe or unsafe.

I don't know where it would be legal or illegal to put a crossing. I just hold an opinion on where it would be safe or unsafe by my own usage of the roads.

Put it this way. The students of UL(whom are the future) decided to make their own crossing on the Dublin Road up from the Groody Roundabout. Although they would be easier crossing at the roundabout they painted their own illegal markings way up the road because they felt it was safer. It was the COUNCIL who decided to make it dangerous by putting it nearly on the roundabout and there have been many many crashes here because of it.

Amazotheamazing

Berty wrote: »

You and I will have to agree to disagree and it being safe or unsafe.

I don't know where it would be legal or illegal to put a crossing. I just hold an opinion on where it would be safe or unsafe by my own usage of the roads.

Put it this way. The students of UL(whom are the future) decided to make their own crossing on the Dublin Road up from the Groody Roundabout. Although they would be easier crossing at the roundabout they painted their own illegal markings way up the road because they felt it was safer. It was the COUNCIL who decided to make it dangerous by putting it nearly on the roundabout and there have been many many crashes here because of it.

Just to be clear, UL is in the county, so it's two different authorities over the one by the Shannon bridge and the ones out by UL etc.

At all these places, traffic should be slowing moving and it shouldn't be dangerous, if people crash they are either going too fast or not paying full attention. The standard of driving in Ireland is a joke, tbh.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Just to be clear, UL is in the county, so it's two different authorities over the one by the Shannon bridge and the ones out by UL etc.

At all these places, traffic should be slowing moving and it shouldn't be dangerous, if people crash they are either going too fast or not paying full attention. The standard of driving in Ireland is a joke, tbh.

It is a bit of a joke alright, and it is compounded by the fact that there is a pedestrian population with many having just as poor a level of knowledge of basic road safety as many of their driving counterparts.

johndaman66

Jofspring wrote: »

I think it is ridiculous having crossings so close to the roundabouts. Most people when on a roundabout are trying to concentrate on the traffic around them, getting onto the roundabout and exiting the roundabout, and possibly having to switch lanes on larger roundabouts. With the amount of people that use the wrong lanes and try cut in in front of other drives i can definitely see somebody being killed. A small drop in concentration and somebody stepping out on the crossing could easily cause an accident.

I was going to add a wee bit more detail in my reply as to why I reckon pedestrian crossings are so lethal at roundabouts but you pretty much summed up my thoughts to a t there Jofspring.

johndaman66

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think the problem is Irish drivers aren't taught how to drive on roundabouts correctly. You should never be driving "through" a roundabout at such speed as to make braking difficult if you see someone at a pedestrian light.

I lived in France for a bit and every roundabout is also an unmarked pedestrian crossing, drivers expect pedestrians to cross at them and drive accordingly.

Imo, they are the best place on a road for a crossing, except for a traffic light junction because any other place on a road will have cars slowing from a higher speed to accommodate people crossing the road, for example, if they were 200m's from a roundabout most cars would have built up considerable speed and would have other traffic travelling at speed behind them.

At very very best I'll agree to disagree with you there Amazotheamazing and strongly disagree at that. Although I agree with you in that roundabouts should be approached and negotiated at slow speeds fact of ther matter is that this is not what happens in reality. I can strongly relate to other peoples points of view on here that on roundabouts you are so so eagerly concentrating on other guys and gals inappropriate lane choices and being so sloppy at cutting you up on roundabouts that pedestrian crossings at the exits pretty much sum up to a lethal cocktail in my opinion. The set up may work well in theory but such is the appaling misuse of roundabouts I think its enough to ensure it does not in reality.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Not enter until it's clear to exit?

Can you sincerely say hand on your heart that you have not stopped on a roundabout before? Not saying you have but if you have done an anyway considerable amount of driving in Limerick rush hour traffic I'd be very much shocked if you haven't. I know from using the roundabout near B&Q at peak traffic times that there is little hope you could pull that off. You'd probably be stuck waiting to get out for half an hour or more at times, have a long tailback of cars behind you hooting their horns and if your someway like me have your BP up to a dangerous level as a result!

johndaman66

Berty wrote: »

Put it this way. The students of UL(whom are the future) decided to make their own crossing on the Dublin Road up from the Groody Roundabout. Although they would be easier crossing at the roundabout they painted their own illegal markings way up the road because they felt it was safer. It was the COUNCIL who decided to make it dangerous by putting it nearly on the roundabout and there have been many many crashes here because of it.

Was talking to a former UL student whom I now work with about this at one stage. Seemingly it was the UL student union president who campaigned vigirously to the County council to have the pedestrian crossings put where they are right on the enterances/ exits of the roundabout.

Liam Byrne

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Not enter until it's clear to exit?

Too simplistic by far. You're assuming that as you're taking off that someone doesn't filter in from the road on the left, blocking your way even though it was clear when you moved onto the roundabout.