Lovely Lovely Gadgets - Ballistic Calculators?

dCorbus

Ballistic Calculators?

I don't know if this has been done already, but bearing in mind more recent tech developments and having been reading a couple of recent threads, I thought I'd start a couple of new threads specifically related to all those lovely and oh so useful gadgets and gizmos that we all want!

If any of the shooters out there in boards.ie-land have any recommendations, advice, thoughts, etc etc on Ballistic Calculators, maybe you could post them here for everyones joy and delectation.

- What Ballistic Calculator do you use?
- Where did you get it?
- How much did it cost?
- What platform does it use - e.g. Iphone, BlackBerry, PC, Watch, etc?
- What do you like about it?
- What do you dislike about it?
- What Ballistic Calculator do your mates use?

plus

- How useful is it really, in practice?
- And how often do you use it?

That kind of info, and anything else you feel is relevant, would be really great.

dC

Cass

I have used a few and find some are too fussy. They want details only the manufacturer could possibly supply or info that i simply do not know how to provide. I have tried and kept with this one. Its quite simplistic, but keeps me within (at max) 1 MOA on my desired height. I never use a handheld or mobile version.

The best BC you will have is trigger time. I find even if you provide all and accurate details that the real world application is still not the exact same as the BC. For that reason i always go out, fire at the different ranges and record my MOA. Drop charts, you cannot beat them.







PS - I answered all 3 of your threads, do i win a prize.

dCorbus

PS - I answered all 3 of your threads, do i win a prize

Yes....yes, you do!
A years supply of coffee courtesy of the MNSCI. Hurrah!:D

jap gt

sorry if im going of topic but its not worthy of its own thread, all calculators want a bc, whats the bc of a 22 mag, or is it down to to round being used

Cass

dCorbus wrote: »

Yes....yes, you do!
A years supply of coffee courtesy of the MNSCI. Hurrah!:D

Ah, brilliant ........ :cool: ..........










/mumble: Where is the fecking delete post button, waste my bloody time and no prize. /mumble

dCorbus

sorry if im going of topic

You are!:p But not to worry!:D

whats the bc of a 22 mag, or is it down to to round being used

AFAIK (and I stand to be corrected on this one) but it is down to the actual bullet being used, for example, for the Hornady .22WMR 30gr VMax the manufacturers stated BC is 0.095 http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-30gr-VMAX/

Most, if not all, manufacturers will publish the BC for each particular bullet. How accurate this figure is may be debateable, but it should be there or there abouts, and that's usually the info you'll need for the Calculator.

Not 100% au fait with these ballistic calculators myself, so if this needs correction, fire away!

johngalway

dCorbus wrote: »

- What Ballistic Calculator do you use?

Exbal.

dCorbus wrote: »

- Where did you get it?

Off a very nice fella I know.

dCorbus wrote: »

- How much did it cost?

dCorbus wrote: »

- What platform does it use - e.g. Iphone, BlackBerry, PC, Watch, etc?

Uhm, one of those palm held jobbies...

dCorbus wrote: »

- What do you like about it?

I've not really used it yet.

dCorbus wrote: »

- What do you dislike about it?

Programme is good, palm held jobbies battery doesn't last long.

dCorbus wrote: »

- What Ballistic Calculator do your mates use?

Look, this isn't funny anymore :mad:

dCorbus wrote: »

- How useful is it really, in practice?

I know of guys who use them and swear by them. If you have the time to ponder the shot, they'll be useful, if not...

dCorbus wrote: »

- And how often do you use it?

Not often, same reasons.

Tackleberrywho

A little light reading
Mist important part of BC is how the round slips through the air
it can be calculated mathematically if you have nothing better to do. or you can let the manufactures of the rounds tell ya

Estimating the Ballistic Coefficient of Jacketed and Cast bullets

The best method of determining the ballistic coefficient of any projectile is to physically measure the amount of velocity reduction over a carefully measured distance. Since that is not always possible, some means other than an educated guess is needed to estimate a reasonably accurate ballistics and trajectory package.

The Ballistic Coefficient of tangential ogive jacketed bullets traveling at velocities above the speed of sound can be calculated to a reasonable degree of accuracy if careful measurements are made to determine the actual radius curve of the nose portion and the boat tail (if any) dimensions.

Most ballistic calculators require that the bullet be laid upon a chart of different profiles(such as the Coxe-Bugless Chart) in order to find a curve that most closely matches the curve of the ogive of the bullet. However this method is not nearly as accurate as a precision measurement.

Close measurement of the distance from the start of the tangential ogival curve to the foremost part of the nose, along with a measurement of the diameter of the tip and the diameter of the bullet can, by a mathematical formula, provide an exact value for the radius of the curve of the bullet ogive. This value, divided by the diameter of the bullet returns the "Caliber of the Ogive". From this value, the "Coefficient of Form" or "form factor" of the bullet may be calculated. Applying a formula containing the measurements of the boat-tail reduces the form factor in proportion to those measurements. After the form factor is determined, it is divided into the weight of the bullet (in pounds) and the resulting value is divided by the square of the diameter of the bullet, thus calculating the ballistic coefficient of that bullet for the G1 Drag table.

Possibly the most difficult part of the procedures is that of measuring the length of the nose, as it is quite hard to determine exactly where the main body ends and the curve of the radius starts. One method that works well is to set and lock a caliper tool to 0.001" less than the diameter of the body of the bullet, then slide the calipers up the bullet nose, toward the bullet body, until the movement is stopped, then carefully mark that spot. It will be very close to the point where the bullet body ends and becomes the start of the bullet nose

Most data is available for centrefire only though.

declan1980

i use jbm.com
i like it because it has the bullet bc's in its library.
it gives precise information for the load you enter.
i find it to be very accurate for both drop and drift.
i tend to use the simplified trajectory version, the other versions have too many inputs
there's nothing i don't like about it

clivej

I use BigGameInfo and find it to be very good. BUT you must check and verify that the data given is correct. The only way to do that is to go to the range and see that the numbers match up with the data given.
Then you will have your drop chart and that combined with a range finder you will always be on target.

I also have Exbal running on a Pocket PC but I have yet to use it "in the field".

But I did see it all in action last week where my friend with his 300 winmag centre hit a 10" target @550y with his rifle that was zeroed @100y. He got the wind speed, 9-12mph meter reading, just dialed in the correct data provided from Exbal on the scope and bang ..................................ding went the metal plate.

dwighet

clivej wrote: »

I use BigGameInfo and find it to be very good. BUT you must check and verify that the data given is correct. The only way to do that is to go to the range and see that the numbers match up with the data given.
Then you will have your drop chart and that combined with a range finder you will always be on target.

I also have Exbal running on a Pocket PC but I have yet to use it "in the field".

But I did see it all in action last week where my friend with his 300 winmag centre hit a 10" target @550y with his rifle that was zeroed @100y. He got the wind speed, 9-12mph meter reading, just dialed in the correct data provided from Exbal on the scope and bang ..................................ding went the metal plate.

who is that man... CliveJ.....?
I would like to meet this man...

Tackleberrywho

dwighet wrote: »

who is that man... CliveJ.....?
I would like to meet this man...

i met him one day and he would not even say hello to me!

clivej

dwighet wrote: »

who is that man... CliveJ.....?
I would like to meet this man...

Just a sick/ill good friend.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

i met him one day and he would not even say hello to me!

He saw you first:rolleyes: ???

Tackleberrywho

clivej wrote: »

Just a sick/ill good friend.




He saw you first:rolleyes:

Well if "he did" h could have held out the olive branch

clivej

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Well if "he did" h could have held out the olive branch

He saw you first:rolleyes:???

Sorry twas a question.

Edit made..................?

dwighet

I use exbal/nightforce ballistics software and a pocket pc.....
It takes a bit of tweaking to get it spot on.....
But works well.....

jwshooter

25 years of experience .works really well

dwighet

jwshooter wrote: »

25 years of experience .works really well

Cant buy that from Aldi....
Thats for sure..

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

25 years of experience .works really well

Yeah, but what do you do about rounds going who-knows-where downrange before you get that 25 years under your belt?

BELOWaverageIQ

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, but what do you do about rounds going who-knows-where downrange before you get that 25 years under your belt?

That's simple Sparks, you never take a shot without a propper backstop!
That's the main difference between shooting on a range and field work I suppose.

I use the Iphone Ballistic FTE eddition. Works well as a very good guide but needs tweaking to suite each individual rifle ( barrel length, rate of twist, etc).
If you put in the time to input the propper data it's very accurate.

Think it cost about €17??? can't remember from the Itunes store and ust it on the iPhone.

Very handy.

Sparks

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

That's simple Sparks, you never take a shot without a propper backstop!
That's the main difference between shooting on a range and field work I suppose.

I would have thought that the main difference was that on the range you can build the range so that those without ballistic calculators or 25 years experience can't accidentally put a round over the backstop and into a town three miles away.

In the field, unless every single thing you shoot has the decency to get between you and a nearby mountain, you don't have that option.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

I would have thought that the main difference was that on the range you can build the range so that those without ballistic calculators or 25 years experience can't accidentally put a round over the backstop and into a town three miles away.

In the field, unless every single thing you shoot has the decency to get between you and a nearby mountain, you don't have that option.

i do agree with you hear sparks .

there is some lads with high power rifles , that sound not be let use them any where other than a recognised range and then under the supervision of some one like myself .

sfakiaman

I use a Hawke Ballistic Calculator which can be downloaded free. It's calibrated for their own multiple aimpoint recticles but would be useful as guidance for other scopes. It wouldn't do for long range target shooting (I had a gov't issue gadget with very loud acoustics back in the day for that job) but at hunting distances it's fine. Given the different POI of different brands of ammo in a particular rifle, putting shots on paper is the only way but the calculator will get you close enough to start. What I found useful is that for a chosen zero it will give both the distance where the bullet passes upward through the line of sight and the zero range where it drops below and all other points from the muzzle on out. For someone new to shooting (or using a new calibre) it is interesting to see the trajectory on the graph.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

I would have thought that the main difference was that on the range you can build the range so that those without ballistic calculators or 25 years experience can't accidentally put a round over the backstop and into a town three miles away.

In the field, unless every single thing you shoot has the decency to get between you and a nearby mountain, you don't have that option.

I hear what you are saying sparks.
When I started shooting there were only a few ranges in the cities that nobody knew about at the time/or had access to.

Nowadays it would seem like a good idea to have to spend the first few hundred rounds or so on a range.

I started with a shotgun so 3 mile towns away were not a major concern.
However I accept that some rifles ranges are far in excess of a humble shotty.

I do believe that learning to shoot on a range is a good idea, and then moving into the field, however I would be very cautious about this sentiment as many would like their to be "NO" hunting or shooting in the field in Ireland.

There is only so much one can learn on the range for the field. Just like driving off road requires different skills than on road. Shooting in the field can not be done sitting at a bench coffee in hand and cigarete in other

The most important part is a common sense approach to field shooting "although" Common sense is not that common

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

In the field, unless every single thing you shoot has the decency to get between you and a nearby mountain, you don't have that option.

Not a problem here.

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

However I accept that some rifles ranges are far in excess of a humble shotty.

Would you mind letting me know which rifle cannot shoot further than a shotgun. Or am i taking you up wrong from the wording of the sentence?

dwighet

ezridax wrote: »

Would you mind letting me know which rifle cannot shoot further than a shotgun. Or am i taking you up wrong from the wording of the sentence?

I think its a riddle of some sort Ez....;)

dCorbus

Would you mind letting me know which rifle cannot shoot further than a shotgun

One of sparks' aforementioned 10m pellet guns!:D:D:D;)

Cass

I said rifle, not pellet gun.










(God i cannot wait to see the s**t storm that sentence causes.)

dCorbus

I said rifle, not pellet gun

OMG, oh no you didn't!;):D

That's us banned for life so!;):D

"And, lo, it came to pass that the wrathful Sparky descendeth from yon Mount of Mod - for He was not best pleased - and, yea, verily how Lord Sparky doth smite the unbelievers and casteth forth unto the blasted heath of fiery infraction the damn-ed pellet-gun heathens."

So endeth the lesson!

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Would you mind letting me know which rifle cannot shoot further than a shotgun. Or am i taking you up wrong from the wording of the sentence?

.22lr effective range is a bit more than a 12g alphamax 4

some rifles effective range is FAR in excess of this effective range of a .22lr or a 12g!

hopefully that is explained simply enough.

If a person is used to a 12g shooting a .300wsm or larger is a horse of a different colour

I apologize for not making a more detailed post, i was very busy in work today

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote:

hopefully that is explained simply enough

I don't think you quite get my point. You first said .................

However I accept that some rifles ranges are far in excess of a humble shotty

............. then you explain that, while marginal, a .22lr (being one of the lowest caliber rifles) still shoots further than a shotgun.

.22lr effective range is a bit more than a 12g alphamax 4

some rifles effective range is FAR in excess of this effective range of a .22lr or a 12g

I know some rifles have a far more effective range than a .22lr or shotgun. Alot do. However previously you made no mention of effective range, however that point is moot as the .22lr is still better at a longer ranges than a shotgun. So my question to you was which rifle has less (effective) range than a shotgun? Your previous answer was to a question not asked.

dCorbus wrote:

"And, lo, it came to pass that the wrathful Sparky descendeth from yon Mount of Mod - for He was not best pleased - and, yea, verily how Lord Sparky doth smite the unbelievers and casteth forth unto the blasted heath of fiery infraction the damn-ed pellet-gun heathens."

So endeth the lesson!

To put it simply, Sparks mad - ezridax in the s**t. :eek::P

dwighet

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.22lr effective range is a bit more than a 12g alphamax 4

some rifles effective range is FAR in excess of this effective range of a .22lr or a 12g!

hopefully that is explained simply enough.

If a person is used to a 12g shooting a .300wsm or larger is a horse of a different colour

I apologize for not making a more detailed post, i was very busy in work today

apology accepted...
still gobbledy gook though...

Tackleberrywho

dwighet wrote: »

apology accepted...
still gobbledy gook though...

Wrecked tired Dwighet
50 hours in 4 days with 16 hours sleep 4 nights combined.

Tis lucky I can still type!

Thankfully off tomorrow Not back in until Sunday
Maybe tomorrow after a good night sleep my posts will be on a par with Chuck Hawkes

patsat

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Wrecked tired Dwighet
50 hours in 4 days with 16 hours sleep 4 nights combined.

Tis lucky I can still type!

Thankfully off tomorrow Not back in until Sunday
Maybe tomorrow after a good night sleep my posts will be on a par with Chuck Hawkes

Then why bother posting?

clivej

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Wrecked tired Dwighet
50 hours in 4 days with 16 hours sleep 4 nights combined.

Tis lucky I can still type!

Thankfully off tomorrow Not back in until Sunday
Maybe tomorrow after a good night sleep my posts will be on a par with Chuck Hawkes

patsat wrote: »

Then why bother posting?

"If ye can't say nothing then say nothing at all".

A quote from someone more important than me.

Tackleberrywho

clivej wrote: »

"If ye can't say nothing then say nothing at all".

A quote from someone more important than me.

Well good morning to you Clive, I'm nice and refreshed now after a good nights sleep

Back on topic of ballistic calculators
Anyone ever use a Nightforce handheld one?or know of anyone here selling them and how much?

Tackleberrywho

patsat wrote: »

Then why bother posting?

Because I like discussing my passion shooting/hunting and all topics related pat.
You will notice I do not post on any other topic

Tackleberrywho

http://www.nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/SOFTWARE/software.html

dCorbus

Oops, Veg, posted that before I got your PM.:o
PM sent. Post deleted.
Not happy - but hey, let's get back on topic.

Tackleberrywho

http://www.nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/TDS_Nomad_data_sheet.pdf

Rugged, waterproof and sunshine rechargeable VGA display

I can't find a price in €'s or $'s though

Sparks

Tack, unless you've actually used whatever product you're point out, it's not so much helpful as it is shilling to just post the datasheet for it, at least not in this context. Stick to what you've personally used, please.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Tack, unless you've actually used whatever product you're point out, it's not so much helpful as it is shilling to just post the datasheet for it, at least not in this context. Stick to what you've personally used, please.

Sparks, I'm looking for advice on one as I may purchase, However I can't find anyone selling one.
So one would be of the opinion that a thread on "ballistic calculators" would be the appropriate place to get advice.

I have used Hornady charts, which I have found very accurate for 55grain .223. I would like info on this Nightforce nomad from Irish shooters.
Since we are a minority those of us who shoot over 200yards in the field in Ireland getting info on boards is often the only way.

I did not see the point on starting a separate thread on a certain type of "ballistic Calculator" and I had not considered it going off topic?

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Sparks, I'm looking for advice on one as I may purchase, However I can't find anyone selling one. So one would be of the opinion that a thread on "ballistic calculators" would be the appropriate place to get advice.

One, in this context at least, would be incorrect. Please feel free to start another thread on that specific topic, but the OP in this thread was very specific in asking for people's "recommendations, advice, thoughts" on ballistic calculators, in that he was asking:

dCorbus wrote:

- What Ballistic Calculator do you use?
- Where did you get it?
- How much did it cost?
- What platform does it use - e.g. Iphone, BlackBerry, PC, Watch, etc?
- What do you like about it?
- What do you dislike about it?
- What Ballistic Calculator do your mates use?

plus

- How useful is it really, in practice?
- And how often do you use it?

If someone's asking as focussed a set of questions as that, just throwing out datasheets that a quick google search would find, without even a pricetag attached, is not as helpful as you no doubt intended it to be.

I have used Hornady charts, which I have found very accurate for 55grain .223.

That is more the kind of thing the OP was looking for

I did not see the point on starting a separate thread on a certain type of "ballistic Calculator" and I had not considered it going off topic?

There is a point to it in this case though, so please, feel free to start one.

jap gt

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

That's simple Sparks, you never take a shot without a propper backstop!
That's the main difference between shooting on a range and field work I suppose.

I use the Iphone Ballistic FTE eddition. Works well as a very good guide but needs tweaking to suite each individual rifle ( barrel length, rate of twist, etc).
If you put in the time to input the propper data it's very accurate.

Think it cost about €17??? can't remember from the Itunes store and ust it on the iPhone.

Very handy.

i was thinking of getting this as it would be handy, does it do rimfire cals though? cause i downloaded a different one and 204 was the smallest cal it did

dCorbus

does it do rimfire cals though?

Not sure about that one, jap gt.

I've never fed in any figures for .22 or any rimfire stuff into a BalCal, maybe some of the other lads have (clivej may have at some point, i'd suspect;):D) - Not sure that there'd be a need for a full blown BalCal for rimfire work, seeing as the furthest reasonable target distance you'd be calculating for a .22lr would be out to about 150 - 200yds....

I understand that most / all the BalCal's are primarily set up for fullbore rounds....

but i'm happy to be corrected on all that.

jap gt

yea but will hopefully be upgrading in the near future to a centrefire, the one that belowaverageiq sounds handy, buy once and all that

clivej

OK now. If your using say Exbal on a Pocket PC hand held device then I don't think you'll be using it for a 22lr with it's max accurate range of 150y.

Exbal hold a data sheet of many factory rounds with the relevent BC info as well as factory heads again with the BC. Just feed the program with the correct data and it will generate a drop chart out to what-ever distance you need.

Link = http://www.perry-systems.com/PocketPC.htm

DJandDeid

There's an iPhone app called 'Let Fly Ballistics Calculator' which does rimfire also. Internet weather, crosswind and ground incline also incorporated. Costs a couple of euro (not sure exactly how much, but I'm tight as a camel's ar*e in a sandstorm so can't have cost much). Haven't had the opportunity to use it yet, but wouldn't mind an opinion from any of you more experienced shooters who may have it.:D

Norwayviking

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

That's simple Sparks, you never take a shot without a propper backstop!
That's the main difference between shooting on a range and field work I suppose.

I use the Iphone Ballistic FTE eddition. Works well as a very good guide but needs tweaking to suite each individual rifle ( barrel length, rate of twist, etc).
If you put in the time to input the propper data it's very accurate.

Think it cost about €17??? can't remember from the Itunes store and ust it on the iPhone.

Very handy.

I use the same.
I have Ballistics FTE,Isnipe and bulletflight on my ipod.Out of the three the Ballistics FTE comes out as the best.
Together with a good windmeter and the right data input, atleast it will bring you on the paper at any range.