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Why are we not doing something?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭bbam


    largepants wrote: »
    Thats fair enough. But why are we standing back and continually letting it happen? The Greeks were right - we're a crowd of bloody wimps and should be ashamed of ourselves.

    That's the solution... burn some innocent bank employees as well why don't we

    Roits and ripping the sh1t out of our country isn't the solution. What would it acheive, the answer to our problem isn't political change, swapping one bunch of twats for another bunch of muppits will acheive nothing..
    the reason FG have no dirty laundry is they were so unpopular and incapable they were kept out of government for so long... don't be fooled if they had been in government or higher positions they would have skeletons in the closet too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    bbam wrote: »
    That's the solution... burn some innocent bank employees as well why don't we

    Roits and ripping the sh1t out of our country isn't the solution. What would it acheive, the answer to our problem isn't political change, swapping one bunch of twats for another bunch of muppits will acheive nothing..
    the reason FG have no dirty laundry is they were so unpopular and incapable they were kept out of government for so long... don't be fooled if they had been in government or higher positions they would have skeletons in the closet too.
    So protesting won't make any difference and neither will voting. What is the solution you propose?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 813 ✭✭✭largepants


    bbam wrote: »
    That's the solution... burn some innocent bank employees as well why don't we

    Roits and ripping the sh1t out of our country isn't the solution. What would it acheive, the answer to our problem isn't political change, swapping one bunch of twats for another bunch of muppits will acheive nothing..
    the reason FG have no dirty laundry is they were so unpopular and incapable they were kept out of government for so long... don't be fooled if they had been in government or higher positions they would have skeletons in the closet too.

    Thats not what I meant by my 'the Greeks were right' statement. I'm not advocating violence. I'm merely saying that they were probably right when they had signs when they demonstrated saying they weren't Irish.

    I've been fooled long enough by these idiots in Government. I'll not be fooled any longer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I had an idea awhile back and after seeing your post I thought I'd set it up. The idea is for, what I call it, a Stick it to the man day. I've set up a group on facebook so please join if you think its something you could do. In essence if we all come together under one idea then we can show the powers that be and most importantly ourselves that we can be united. If we can come together then we can achieve anything. United we stand, divided we fall.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=108826132511741&ref=mf

    Please feel free to join and if you like the idea then send it on.


    Whilst I admire anyone for doing something they believe in (within reason), you idea is a foolish one. Despite that fact that no one will hold to it, if you did manage to cause a stay on spending for a day you would achieve nothing more than confound the problems of businesses trying to stay open. Your comment about public houses is absurd, what about those people who work for them?

    And finally, where are you going to get the drink and stuff for the parties we will all be having in lieu of spending? From a shop the day before perhaps?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭Joshua Jones


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Whilst I admire anyone for doing something they believe in (within reason), you idea is a foolish one. Despite that fact that no one will hold to it, if you did manage to cause a stay on spending for a day you would achieve nothing more than confound the problems of businesses trying to stay open. Your comment about public houses is absurd, what about those people who work for them?

    The whole premise is to get people together. If we all could unite under one idea and show some solidarity then there's no end to what can be achieved. United we stand, divided we fall. We all need something that we can believe in, something that will bring us all together.
    And finally, where are you going to get the drink and stuff for the parties we will all be having in lieu of spending? From a shop the day before perhaps?

    Of course. It's a peaceful demostration to show that there are plenty who feel that this cabal, sorry government, sorry vested intrests are not going to get away with it anymore. They say money is power, lets see.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    If we all could unite under one idea and show some solidarity then there's no end to what can be achieved.

    Umm, yes there is. We can't magic the national debt away, or magic up a new solvent banking system out of the old one. These things are not going to be resolved by us all having a big party. Besides, the 30th is a work day, why not pick a saturday instead? You'll not deny people a well earned pint after a hard day's work will you?

    Of course. It's a peaceful demostration to show that there are plenty who feel that this cabal, sorry government, sorry vested intrests are not going to get away with it anymore. They say money is power, lets see.

    A much better thing to do would be to take all the money that you would have spent, everyone stay at home not drinking, and use the money to fund a new politicial party etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭Joshua Jones


    Umm, yes there is. We can't magic the national debt away, or magic up a new solvent banking system out of the old one. These things are not going to be resolved by us all having a big party. Besides, the 30th is a work day, why not pick a saturday instead? You'll not deny people a well earned pint after a hard day's work will you?

    30th of October is a Saturday, shall I sign you up so lol. But seriously, I wouldn't deny anyone anything, especially the hard working folks of this great country. All I'm saying is that if people feel like I do, that we have been sold down the swaney by banks, corporations etc then the only thing they'll take notice of is us not giving them our money, or unit of energy as I like to call it.

    Also the national debt etc could easily be magic-ed away, but thats for another day lol, maybe st stephens day, leave it with me lol.
    A much better thing to do would be to take all the money that you would have spent, everyone stay at home not drinking, and use the money to fund a new politicial party etc.

    You start it up buddy and I'll back you 100%, I mean that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    I think there is no chance in hell that anyone will manage to drive any kind of protest/change/coup/revolution (pick as you wish) in this country. The main reasons for this guaranteed failure are:
    - Irish people got lazy
    - They experienced an illusionary wealth, and now think they are too good to be part of a 'people's movement'
    - The government has been very clever by promoting a divide between public and private sectors that distracted everyone. That has now been replaced by getting people to point fingers at the Greens... we did learn something from the brits about divide and conquer!
    - The are no real good (better maybe, but not good enough) options for a new government
    - The current political system is crap and designed to dilute the entire decision making process, so anyone with balls is auto-castrated
    - People probably realise that things are soooo f*cked up that it is too late to try to fix it. We are going insolvent, and that's it
    - There is an absolute lack of leadership anywhere - the ones with any decent IQ level are leaving
    - People are too busy playing on the interweb and following the soaps on tv
    - The vacuum in power and the level of uncertainty helps build the illusion that maybe, just maybe, if we keep quiet the bad stuff will go away
    - There is very little social consciousness in this country
    - If I have a job I'll keep my head down and I may be able to keep it, if I loose my job I better not complain since at least I am being looked after


    To get out of this mess, we either go to Germany/France/US and ask them to adopt us - as in please run the country and economy for us

    OR

    In the next elections we vote for someone who's campaign is solely based on the proposal to enter government to do the following:

    - Pursue to the full extent of the law punishment for corruption, malpractice, cronysm (sp),
    - Full review and open reporting of the financial position of the nations finances and a serious independent assessment of the options going forward (if we want to have any credibility abroad, this has to be done)
    - Removal of any government guarantee for past deals between investors/bond holders and private institutions
    - call a referendum for a replacement of the current government system with presidentialism, where the president will have a cabinet formed by non-political subject experts
    - Find a way to make TDs loose jurisdiction over local issues - like potholes and pub openings, and to have national issues only in their agenda - councillors to be solely responsible for local issues (not sure if this can be implemented easily, but public support would help)
    - Senate to either be closed or have a veto power on the Dail, but all members to be directly elected
    - President position to be either finished or the president to play a serious role - If we need a queen we could just ask the UK to takes us back

    This would then be followed by new elections.

    Just for reference, if this is the kind of new start you would like to see, click the Thumbs up button below.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    Let's turn this into a public opinion. If you disagree with my post above, click the thumbs up button for this post.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Agree with most of what you say zyncs, but where are these new honest and honourable politicians, who put the country before themselves going to come from? I would vote for that party in a heartbeat, as would most people I would think.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Well with any luck they might be a few of the people around Boards who are constantly told there's no point in trying to organise any kind of a group protest, because it's a waste of time, it's stupid, it'll be hijacked, etc, etc....
    Among others.I'd happily go into politics, but I won't - because people just won't want to hear what I have to say. It's that simple.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    mickeyk wrote: »
    Agree with most of what you say zyncs, but where are these new honest and honourable politicians, who put the country before themselves going to come from? I would vote for that party in a heartbeat, as would most people I would think.

    I am assuming that many honest and honorable people would be put off by the prospect of joining the current political environment and being 'assimilated'. However, if there was a serious push for reform in a movement disconnected from the political establishment, maybe these individuals would consider sticking their neck out at least to help drive this reform.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭ROS123


    Is one from of protest at least to wipe out the man protagonists in this whole sorry mess we are in, namely Fianna Fail. If we could at least through the next election punish the party that caused most of the mess, by decimating them, would that not at least be a message to the rest of them, that they can't get away with the level of mistakes that FF have made.

    Having said that I dont hold out much hope, min 25% base plus those wo will vote thme back in if they think they will be a euro better off a week under FF.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    largepants wrote: »
    I am a public servant but being honest I don't wish this post to be turned into another anti public servant rant. This is about FF and how incompetent this government has become.I havn;t been bought off as you say. All people should get together and make their voice count no matter what their backgroung, creed, job status or race.

    Fair enough, individually you have your own views, but there is nothing in it for the average public servant to go and protest or change the government, because I think they know well any change is likely going to be negative for them. The end result is the same, large sections of the population are still doing very well for themselves- pensioners/long term social welfare recipients/public workers (compared to other rich countries let alone comparing ourselves to the PIGS where we rightfully belong), while some such as the young and the less educated but hard working folks are basically forced out of the country as there is no willingness to increase competitiveness overall which would damage FF core vote (the other parties hardly show a difference though, none have said how they will make solid spending cuts or talked clearly about the need to raise taxes). Labour looks possibly worse than FF!

    PS workers made noises about the Croke Park deal but none of them were seriously opposed and now I think they are praying it's going to hold together. Many families have PS workers in Ireland, Irish people are not the type to bring these topics into the open too much as it tends to create division.

    The other reasons people don't do anything, apathy, escape valve of emigration, a resignedness to the 'sure they are all the same', the young and hard working types are not the ones experienced in organising protests (compared to unionised and older workers/retirees). Finally Irish people in general are a bit soft, well padded stomaches and fairly comfortable lives in the main are what they care about like most others, Irish society has it's good and bad points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    mickeyk wrote: »
    Agree with most of what you say zyncs, but where are these new honest and honourable politicians, who put the country before themselves going to come from? I would vote for that party in a heartbeat, as would most people I would think.

    You would, maybe a sizeable minority would, but I'm not sure if the majority would. Because you have to tell them that they risked losing their guaranteed jobs, reducing their pensions, cutting back on their dole and entitlements, increased income taxes. This is going to happen anyway but can you see Irish people voting for this explicitly? The effort is worth maybe for holding the swing vote and therefore influencing government policy, FF/FG/Labour would like that as they could blame your honest party for all the difficult decisions.

    I admire the American system because they have to lay out their policy clearly and then the politicians votes are scrutinised to see if he has changed tack over his views over the years. They genuinely have different policies that people can vote on. In Ireland that's not the case, every party seems to think they can get the economy going without cutting public jobs/salaries/entitlements or significantly raising taxes. Even if they do have some plan to do this the electorate doesn't want to know about it until after the election. There's a problem of maturity with the average voter and it seems everybody is socialist in Ireland, even many of the large capitalists (because they got their debts covered by the government).

    That adds up to a lot of people. Then there's another bunch that fear change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    We are a country of cowards and the truth is we don't give a hoot what happens to our fellow country men. I'm alright jack attitude.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    Zynks wrote: »
    I think there is no chance in hell that anyone will manage to drive any kind of protest/change/coup/revolution (pick as you wish) in this country. The main reasons for this guaranteed failure are:
    - Irish people got lazy
    - They experienced an illusionary wealth, and now think they are too good to be part of a 'people's movement'
    - The government has been very clever by promoting a divide between public and private sectors that distracted everyone. That has now been replaced by getting people to point fingers at the Greens... we did learn something from the brits about divide and conquer!
    - The are no real good (better maybe, but not good enough) options for a new government
    - The current political system is crap and designed to dilute the entire decision making process, so anyone with balls is auto-castrated
    - People probably realise that things are soooo f*cked up that it is too late to try to fix it. We are going insolvent, and that's it
    - There is an absolute lack of leadership anywhere - the ones with any decent IQ level are leaving
    - People are too busy playing on the interweb and following the soaps on tv
    - The vacuum in power and the level of uncertainty helps build the illusion that maybe, just maybe, if we keep quiet the bad stuff will go away
    - There is very little social consciousness in this country
    - If I have a job I'll keep my head down and I may be able to keep it, if I loose my job I better not complain since at least I am being looked after


    To get out of this mess, we either go to Germany/France/US and ask them to adopt us - as in please run the country and economy for us

    OR

    In the next elections we vote for someone who's campaign is solely based on the proposal to enter government to do the following:

    - Pursue to the full extent of the law punishment for corruption, malpractice, cronysm (sp),
    - Full review and open reporting of the financial position of the nations finances and a serious independent assessment of the options going forward (if we want to have any credibility abroad, this has to be done)
    - Removal of any government guarantee for past deals between investors/bond holders and private institutions
    - call a referendum for a replacement of the current government system with presidentialism, where the president will have a cabinet formed by non-political subject experts
    - Find a way to make TDs loose jurisdiction over local issues - like potholes and pub openings, and to have national issues only in their agenda - councillors to be solely responsible for local issues (not sure if this can be implemented easily, but public support would help)
    - Senate to either be closed or have a veto power on the Dail, but all members to be directly elected
    - President position to be either finished or the president to play a serious role - If we need a queen we could just ask the UK to takes us back

    This would then be followed by new elections.

    Just for reference, if this is the kind of new start you would like to see, click the Thumbs up button below.

    Excellent post. I said it years ago "Give the people premiership football and X-Factor and they will forget about the important things in life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    maninasia wrote: »
    You would, maybe a sizeable minority would, but I'm not sure if the majority would. Because you have to tell them that they risked losing their guaranteed jobs, reducing their pensions, cutting back on their dole and entitlements, increased income taxes. This is going to happen anyway but can you see Irish people voting for this explicitly? The effort is worth maybe for holding the swing vote and therefore influencing government policy, FF/FG/Labour would like that as they could blame your honest party for all the difficult decisions.

    It all depends on how you put it to the people. It actually boils down to a very simple question: do you want to know the truth?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    largepants wrote: »
    I'm not hugely into politics but I'm amazed by Berite Ahern on last nights tv programme. But what amazing me more is why as the people of this nation we are not rebelling against our government. Why are we not demanding action be taken against some of our banker, developers and politicians?No this is not another online rant. I'm very serious. They are making fools of the whole lot of us and we're all standing back and letting them do it.How are these things organised? Something has to be done.

    Well there are a number of reasons perhaps to why we arn't in rebellion

    This isn't the middle ages. And we are not some backwater third world state. Do you mean up in arms and revolt kinda thing? If so, I'm pretty sure you can guess as to why that might not be the best/good idea, and why it would fall flat on its face.

    Outside of that we operate a democracy. We elected the people in power originally and pledged our faith in them. To oust that power and replace it there needs to be a new election which will probably come in the following months by the sounds of things.

    Then we have another chance to vote in someone who we believe will do better.

    Unfortunately the irish people are so easily turned and twisted into voting. I'm not sure on what the ratio is, but by the way Labour and F.G lick the arses of the lower class, I'd assume they are the majority of voters along with the lower middle class.

    Unfortunately I don't see anyone doing any better. The opposing parties don't really give a ****, they rub their hands when nationally things get worse, as its more ammunition to open fire with. I have not heard one good idea or solution come from either camp. All I've heard is is the lower class is getting rapped and we need to tax the higher bracket. As an individual with aspirations to hopefully get into that higher bracket through working hard and further educating myself, what I'm reading is

    "No no, **** educating yourself and becoming part of a smart economy, join a trade, get cash in hand, and when things go sour **** it you'll be looked after".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    'They' will be happy to know that you are volunteering to pay for the huge debts that they continue to build in our names as we speak - not that we will have an option, but don't you feel uncomfortable with the level of debt that the country is being committed to, and the (lack of) ethics behind the whole thing?

    What really scares me is that what is holding everything together is the party whip policy, where the TD representing you cannot disagree or question this economical harakiri.

    There is a guy backed by just 19.102 votes running this country, and the party policies mean there can be no dissent, no matter how bad the decision are. Is this really democracy?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Zynks wrote: »
    It all depends on how you put it to the people. It actually boils down to a very simple question: do you want to know the truth?
    But that's the thing-they don't want to hear the truth.That's one of the reasons I wouldn't bother going into politics.Because the reality is that people's wages have to be cut, they will have to pay more tax, min wage will have to be cut, and social benefits will have to be cut. And people don't want to hear it, no matter how you put it to them.They want to hear your plans, what you intend to do, what other groups you're going to hit-preferably whatever group they have a vendetta against-public servants,private sector, unemployed peopke,uneducated people....but the minute you suggest that it might affect them, they turn on you and give you a list of their woes and how you can't possibly expect them to 'give any more'.They just don't want to hear it.It's an attitude we excel at-not in my back yard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭rusty999


    Mister men wrote: »
    We are a country of cowards and the truth is we don't give a hoot what happens to our fellow country men. I'm alright jack attitude.

    Yes I agree!! We are a country of Sheep!! No Balls and afraid to tell it like it is....in case our neighbour might not agree with it. Thats what we are reduced to and the sooner people realize that its our children who will have to live with this awful legacy brought upon us by the likes of Biffo Cowan and his cronies ,then the sooner we may actually have a chance to rectify the awful damage done to the country. The eyes of the world are once again on Ireland-but this time for all the wrong reasons!! Wake Up Ireland !!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭poppyvalley


    and look where it got the Greeks!Whipped & the IMF had to come in after all their blustering


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    English businessman overheard at Stanstead airport geting off a Ryanair flight while on the phone (circa 2005): 'Ive just been over to Ireland...its like the janitor has just won the lottery over there'

    Dont ask me the radio show that this was mentioned on, I heard it about 2 years ago. I hate to say it, but he had a point...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered


    and look where it got the Greeks!Whipped & the IMF had to come in after all their blustering

    look at what their bonds are costing compared to us good europeans, we even borrowed money at a very high rate to give them a dig out.:mad:


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