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"Vaccines are safe?" - Family awarded $1.5 million damages

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24

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    #32
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    King Mob wrote: »
    Well I got vaccines. My siblings all got vaccines. Most people I know got vaccines.
    I don't know anyone who has autism.

    So my anecdote trumps yours, right?

    :mad:
    FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

    Disgraceful!


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    #33
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    :mad:
    FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

    Disgraceful!

    I was illustrating a point.
    It's pretty clear from the context.


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    #34
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    King Mob wrote: »
    I was illustrating a point.
    It's pretty clear from the context.
    :rolleyes:


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    #35
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    King Mob wrote: »
    Gonna explain how your anecdote is more valid?

    Or do you see how anecdotes are pointless in this kinda debate?

    Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not, you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.


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    #36
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    :mad:
    FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

    Disgraceful!

    Stoop so low? It's a discussion and because one person has a vested interest in said discussion doesn't make them more right than someone else.


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    #37
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not,
    That's a good way to spread information alright....
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough
    Yes, that's because all the medical research shows clearly that it is.
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.
    Unfortunately anecdotes aren't "real life evidence".

    So unless you've actually got proper evidence, you could quite possibly be spreading false information that could be putting other peoples children at risk.


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    #38
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    amacachi wrote: »
    Stoop so low? It's a discussion and because one person has a vested interest in said discussion doesn't make them more right than someone else.

    Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.


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    #39
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

    Where did that happen? The argument was attacked due to the hugely obvious flaw in it.


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    #40
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.
    Where did I belittle anyone's child?

    Seriously BB if you're just going to make **** up...


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    #41
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.
    Are you suggesting it its wrong to question a person who is suggesting something that is completely and utterly untrue just because the persons child has autism?


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    #42
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    King Mob wrote: »
    That's a good way to spread information alright....


    Yes, that's because all the medical research shows clearly that it is.


    Unfortunately anecdotes aren't "real life evidence".

    So unless you've actually got proper evidence, you could quite possibly be spreading false information that could be putting other peoples children at risk.

    I wish i was spreading false information, but i have no reason to do that.You can google all the BS rigged "research" you want to but if your not out there talking to parents and carers of these kids then your not in the best position to take the high ground here.


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    #43
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    amacachi wrote: »
    Where did that happen? The argument was attacked due to the hugely obvious flaw in it.

    Couldn't give a **** about this or any argument. The man's kid has autism. King mob heartlessly shat all over his statement and treated it like he would a link to a CT site.

    Not everything is about wining arguments, though it appears for some it is.


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    #44
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    I don't see anything malicious. Truthrevolution put forward his reasons for believing vaccines were unsafe. King Mob then explained why he felt they weren't. I don't see it as belittleling.

    TR, you have my sincerest of sympathies, genuinely. However, if you put forward personal information as a way of supporting your argument then if someone wants to address that point then they will have to mention your children.

    Now I believe both have made their points as regards why or why not anecdotal evidence is sufficient reason to believe vaccines are unsafe, so move on with the discussion.


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    #45
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    I wish i was spreading false information, but i have no reason to do that.
    Well you could honestly believe false information to be true.
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    You can google all the BS rigged "research" you want to
    How do you know all my research against your is rigged?
    How do you know your research isn't?
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    but if your not out there talking to parents and carers of these kids then your not in the best position to take the high ground here.
    Well I'm not qualified to give medical advice to parents or carers.

    But I'm qualified enough to see junk science when I see it.


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    #46
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not, you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.
    The only real evidence is scientific evidence. It's people who continue to suggest and support the idea that autism and vaccinations are linked, despite the huge scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, that are slowing down autism research. Think about that.


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    #47
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    OK...apparently some people can't take a hint.

    Brown Bomber and King Mob can both have a week off for picking up the bickering where the others left off.





    UPDATE : I've lifted both bans, subsequent to a PM from Brown Bomber.


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    #48
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

    Nice one BB, but dont worry its all water off a ducks back at this stage.

    @King Mob il continue the discussion with you when your back from your ban.


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    #49
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    axer wrote: »
    The only real evidence is scientific evidence. It's people who continue to suggest and support the idea that autism and vaccinations are linked, despite the huge scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, that are slowing down autism research. Think about that.

    Oh dont worry i have thought about a lot of things.Did you ever think that most of these "studies" are carried out by people who have a vested interest in mass scientific cover-up?
    And il tell you what is slowing down progress in autism research is acually lack of research in the right areas.Scientific research mostly ignores important factors like mitochondrial problems, yeast infections, gut issues, enviromental factors and yes vaccines too.Also biomedical interventions are usually frowned upon by the mainstream scientific comunity.


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    #50
    pablo_escobar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭pablo_escobar


    Julie Gerberding was director of CDC from 1998 until jan 2009

    In this video she claims not to know much about Hannah Poling case.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fOjOUrHtoA


    She's now the president of Merck Vaccine division.
    But why should anyone doubt this womans sincerity?

    The following video is an edited version which shows her discussing the "rare" mitochondrial disorder.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ez0NymSbg


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    #51
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Also there are ALOT of people who have mild cases of autism and its various forms.
    Try look up the symptoms to aspergers,dyspraxia and autism for an example.I know alot of people who know others who are slightly autistic and they havent a clue.I see people who have it walking the streets or living nearby me and it isnt that noticeable when its very mild.
    I also know people who have it! and they dont even know,which is kind of an annoying situation to have to deal with that knowledge.
    But anyway i can think of 4 cases just off the top of my head where i know people who suffer from or most likely suffer from mild autism and they do not know they have it.So how many others are undiagnosed all around the country!
    Do you ever see people that are acting a little strange? Maybe someone you know who is really quirky or a loner for some reason or another?
    Not always but on some of these instances a form of mental illness or autism can be involved,sometimes extremely mild to a point where the symptoms can be hidden after a few years of practise and noticing what is ok in social situations and what isnt.
    So when people here say that they dont know anyone who is autistic,firstly take a look at yourself very closely because you may be one of the few who has gone well into their later years without any knowledge of why you have found life more difficult to deal with than others.
    And second you could have close friends/family who are autistic even very mildly and they may be able to hide nearly all their quirks.
    For what its worth the people i know who suffer social difficulties because of this mild condition are actually the most loyal friends and straight talkers.Some qualities i admire in any person.
    I do really suspect genetics are a big part of this.As i see it dominant in familes as in parents and kids having it in one family but none or maybe only one in another.
    Which makes me think some people choosing each other and having kids could run a small risk because of their gene and dna make create a child thats genetically predisposed towards autism which afaik is some kind of damage or ristriction to the upper part of the brain which are the higher functions.Social interaction,motor functions it can be varied but i wonder does the enviornment help push it that way also.To nourish mutations in genes,maybe vaccines,maybe flouride.
    Hard to say for me and ive seen alot of good arguments for and against the vaccines so i guess theres alot left i need to find out about.


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    #52
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Oh dont worry i have thought about a lot of things.Did you ever think that most of these "studies" are carried out by people who have a vested interest in mass scientific cover-up?
    I have thought about this.
    Usually these claims are totally unsubstantiated and are usually pretty lame attempts to ignore the studies in question.

    Have you ever thought that the places you get your information have their own vested interests or are just plain ill-informed?
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    And il tell you what is slowing down progress in autism research is acually lack of research in the right areas.Scientific research mostly ignores important factors like mitochondrial problems, yeast infections, gut issues, enviromental factors and yes vaccines too.Also biomedical interventions are usually frowned upon by the mainstream scientific comunity.
    Why do you think these factors are more important exactly?
    What research has been done to suggest this?


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    #53
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Oh dont worry i have thought about a lot of things.Did you ever think that most of these "studies" are carried out by people who have a vested interest in mass scientific cover-up?
    You put studies in quotation marks. Have you read any of them? Is there something in particular you don't agree with in them? or are you just against all the evidence in particular.
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    And il tell you what is slowing down progress in autism research is acually lack of research in the right areas.Scientific research mostly ignores important factors like mitochondrial problems, yeast infections, gut issues, enviromental factors and yes vaccines too.Also biomedical interventions are usually frowned upon by the mainstream scientific comunity.
    I have never understood how people can give out about the "dangers" of vaccines and then at the same time talk about the likes of biomedical interventions. Biomedical interventions are killing children. Crazy parents doing crazy stuff to their children and then have the nerve to call vaccines dangerous.


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    #54
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    pablo_escobar wrote: »
    Julie Gerberding was director of CDC from 1998 until jan 2009

    In this video she claims not to know much about Hannah Poling case.
    She said she hadn't been able to review the case files herself. She didn't say she didnt know much. I would suspect she does not want to comment on a case without having seen all the case files first.
    pablo_escobar wrote: »
    She's now the president of Merck Vaccine division.
    But why should anyone doubt this womans sincerity?
    I know. Why would the evil pharmaceutical hire a person who obviously doesn't have any experience with vaccinations. They must be out to pay her to shut up. I know now that I am in the conspiracy forum.
    pablo_escobar wrote: »
    The following video is an edited version which shows her discussing the "rare" mitochondrial disorder.
    Did you even read this?:
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904


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    #55
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Torakx wrote: »
    Also there are ALOT of people who have mild cases of autism and its various forms.
    How do you know this? Do you know it is very hard to diagnose autism? but yet you can just see people on the street and diagnose them? Are you that good?


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    #56
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    @ King Mob, the issues you have outlined i have spent the last 2 years doing research into these conditions.Havent got the time to go into great details on this forum but you could do well to go look into it yourself if you are really interested.

    @ Axer, yes i have looked into studies on both sides of the fence, and also through real life experiences and made my mind up after weighing up either side of the argument.
    Interesting you should suggest that children have been killed through biomedical approaches, have you any evidence to back that up?


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    #57
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    @ King Mob, the issues you have outlined i have spent the last 2 years doing research into these conditions.Havent got the time to go into great details on this forum but you could do well to go look into it yourself if you are really interested.
    I've done plenty of research myself, and the overwhelming science shows clearly that there is no link.

    Can you at least explain how you know that every single study that goes against your position is "rigged"?
    Cause that was a pretty big claim to leave totally unsubstantiated.

    You certainly wouldn't accept me likewise dismissing all of your research would you?


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    #58
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    @ King Mob, the issues you have outlined i have spent the last 2 years doing research into these conditions.Havent got the time to go into great details on this forum but you could do well to go look into it yourself if you are really interested.
    Was the research performed in the university of google?
    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    @ Axer, yes i have looked into studies on both sides of the fence, and also through real life experiences and made my mind up after weighing up either side of the argument.
    Interesting you should suggest that children have been killed through biomedical approaches, have you any evidence to back that up?
    Real life experiences don't mean jack sh'it. You need empirical evidence.

    On Tuesday 23rd August 2005 Abubakar Tariq Nadama died while being given an IV push of disodium EDTA in the office of Dr. Roy Eugene Kerry in Portersville, Pennsylvania.

    Chelation therapy and the likes are dangerous to say the least.


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    #59
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Tone down the aggression Axer


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    #60
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    axer wrote: »
    Was the research performed in the university of google?

    By reading books, talking to people who have been effected by this, going to nutritionists, through the DAN etc.

    axer wrote: »
    Real life experiences don't mean jack sh'it.

    Yes they do, its how things work in the real world.


    axer wrote: »
    On Tuesday 23rd August 2005 Abubakar Tariq Nadama died while being given an IV push of disodium EDTA in the office of Dr. Roy Eugene Kerry in Portersville, Pennsylvania.

    Chelation therapy and the likes are dangerous to say the least.

    Thats BS chelation is perfectly safe if done correctly.In any way chelation is only one small aspect of biomedical interventions, there are so may others but i could of guessed the chelation scaremongering was coming.

    Now with regards to that unfortunate child who died of disodium poisoning id like to know who that doctor was working for cause he sure as hell wasnt a certified DAN doctor.You cant chelate kids with acid ffs no wonder he died.You cant just simply blame a toxic death like this on biomedicine.

    Flawed argument.


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    #61
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Thats BS chelation is perfectly safe if done correctly.In any way chelation is only one small aspect of biomedical interventions, there are so may others but i could of guessed the chelation scaremongering was coming.
    Hang on.
    Are you serious?

    You think vaccines are dangerous but chelation is perfectly safe?

    All medical procedures incur risk, stuff like chelation even more so.
    Other side effects include fever, headache, nausea, stomach upset, vomiting, convulsions, bone marrow depression, hypotension, cardiac arrhythmias, respiratory arrest, and hypocalcemia. Other concerns include kidney failure, which can require permanent life-limiting and expensive dialysis, or cause death.
    And this is leaving aside the fact that chelation has never actually been shown to be an effective treatment for anything other than acute heavy metal poisoning.
    You cant chelate kids with acid ffs no wonder he died.
    That's what chelation actually is.

    And here's a handy list of deaths directly attributable to unnecessary chelation.
    Chelation therapy can be hazardous, even conducted with the FDA-approved chelation agents. In August 2005, botched chelation therapy conducted by an ACAM member killed a 5-year-old autistic boy;[15] a 3-year-old nonautistic girl died in February 2005, and a nonautistic adult died in August 2003. These deaths were due to cardiac arrest caused by hypocalcemia during chelation therapy.[33] Only the 3-year-old girl had been medically assessed and found to have an elevated blood lead level and resulting low iron levels and anemia, a proper medical cause for chelation therapy to be conducted.[34]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy


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