"Vaccines are safe?" - Family awarded $1.5 million damages

pablo_escobar · 13-09-2010 9:29am #1

So, we're constantly told vaccines are unquestionably safe..

It would appear that a vaccine court for the first time has conceded defeat that a young girl, Hannah Poling suffered brain damage as a result of vaccination.

read full article here

Di0genes · 13-09-2010 9:43am

pablo_escobar wrote: »

So, we're constantly told vaccines are unquestionably safe.

It would appear that a vaccine court for the first time has conceded defeat that a young girl, Hannah Poling suffered brain damage as a result of vaccination.

read full article here

I notice that you failed to mention that Hannah Polling had a pre existing encephalopathy, and the vaccine just exacerbated this serious illness.

pablo_escobar · 13-09-2010 9:55am

i'm not trying to prove vaccines are safe or unsafe, merely highlighting the story.

the main reason the Poling family won this case is because they had the money to see it through until the end.

most families could not afford the court costs so this win is great news for many victims of vaccines we never hear about in the mainstream news.

I know you probably hate seeing someone finally get justice they deserve.

alastair · 13-09-2010 10:22am

pablo_escobar wrote: »

i'm not trying to prove vaccines are safe or unsafe, merely highlighting the story.

Sure.

And who says vaccines are 'unquestionably' safe? Any medication carries risk - and I don't know any government or health body that says otherwise.

pablo_escobar wrote: »

I know you probably hate seeing someone finally get justice they deserve.

Lovely.:rolleyes:

Not so fussed about the 'lack of respect' shown there eh, nullzero? What a surprise.

Di0genes · 13-09-2010 10:24am

pablo_escobar wrote: »

i'm not trying to prove vaccines are safe or unsafe, merely highlighting the story.

Then why put "vaccines are safe" in the title, in inverted commas?

the main reason the Poling family won this case is because they had the money to see it through until the end.

No as I understand it the main reason they won the case is that in this case the claim was valid. Because the vaccine exacerbated a pre existing condition. The vast majority of children who receive vaccines dont have serious brain illnesses.

most families could not afford the court costs so this win is great news for many victims of vaccines we never hear about in the mainstream news.

You do realise you read this on CNN?

I know you probably hate seeing someone finally get justice they deserve.

Nice to see you thank this post nullzero, with all your high and mighty talk about people leaving out personal attacks.

13-09-2010 10:38am

Di0genes wrote: »

You do realise you read this on CNN?

Technically it's CBS but your point still stands

Also I find the claim that the autism-vaccine link isn't mentioned in the media hilarious, considering it was an entirely media generated panic.

WakeUp · 13-09-2010 10:50am

pablo_escobar wrote: »

i'm not trying to prove vaccines are safe or unsafe, merely highlighting the story.

the main reason the Poling family won this case is because they had the money to see it through until the end.

most families could not afford the court costs so this win is great news for many victims of vaccines we never hear about in the mainstream news.

I agree.

axer · 13-09-2010 11:22am

pablo_escobar wrote: »

So, we're constantly told vaccines are unquestionably safe.

Firstly - nobody says this. If anybody says this then they do not know what they are talking about. Even read the packaging of vaccines and you will see that the risks are clearly layed out. What is being said is the risk of being injured from a vaccine is much much less than the risk of getting injured because a vaccine was not administered. That is proven fact.

pablo_escobar wrote: »

It would appear that a vaccine court for the first time has conceded defeat that a young girl, Hannah Poling suffered brain damage as a result of vaccination.

Read this piece from Dr. Offit as it explains what happened here:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904

This child should not have been awarded any compensation.

Di0genes · 13-09-2010 11:29am

axer wrote: »

Read this piece from Dr. Offit as it explains what happened here:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904

This child should not have been awarded any compensation.

Thank you. It's also interesting to note that far from being hidden by the mainstream media, this case has received massive attention

humanji · 13-09-2010 11:43am

Right, I've deleted the majority of posts on this thread because they were pointless bickering. Alastair and Di0genes, if you ahve a problem with a post, you report it. You DO NOT derail a thread by bitching about it. It stops now, ni this thread and all others. You will not get another warning.

Di0genes · 13-09-2010 11:44am

humanji wrote: »

Right, I've deleted the majority of posts on this thread because they were pointless bickering. Alastair and Di0genes, if you ahve a problem with a post, you report it. You DO NOT derail a thread by bitching about it. It stops now, ni this thread and all others. You will not get another warning.

I did report the post. And I notice it's not been infracted, can I take it that such a post is allowable then?

nw1dqsv7amx026 · 13-09-2010 11:44am

alastair wrote: »

Yeah he explained that:

was:

I guess that wraps it up for you then? Entirely satisfied with that explanation?

I guess I'll have to report pablo then - since you're in agreement that the comment isn't abuse.

Actually that would be much better rather than killing an interesting thread!

Perhaps you could have stayed on the subject instead of getting back at "nullzero" for some previous perceived slight!

For what its worth from the outside it looks like you're the source of all the "personal attacks"!

I was briefly tempted to check the 9/11 thread for the history of your grievance but I suspect it was more of the same!

alastair · 13-09-2010 11:45am

humanji wrote: »

Right, I've deleted the majority of posts on this thread because they were pointless bickering. Alastair and Di0genes, if you ahve a problem with a post, you report it. You DO NOT derail a thread by bitching about it. It stops now, ni this thread and all others. You will not get another warning.

Cheers - post 3 reported.

axer · 13-09-2010 12:12pm

Di0genes wrote: »

Thank you. It's also interesting to note that far from being hidden by the mainstream media, this case has received massive attention

Not sure if you spotted this (I didnt at first) but the father of Hannah responded to the piece which Dr. Offit subsequently responded back:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc086269
Very interesting read and its a pity Hannah's father did not continue to respond but Id say that he knew he was out of his depth.

ancapailldorcha · 13-09-2010 12:15pm

I thought everyone at this stage knew that vaccines can't cause developmental disorders.

axer · 13-09-2010 12:17pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I thought everyone at this stage knew that vaccines can't cause developmental disorders.

Tell that to Jenny McCarthy from the university of google and funnyman carey.

The Recliner · 13-09-2010 12:23pm

Di0genes wrote: »

I did report the post. And I notice it's not been infracted, can I take it that such a post is allowable then?

I would imagine given the amount of posts that were deleted and had to be read through and the amount of posts reported that he just hasn't had time to do anything about it

I have been busy in work so only getting to look at it now, as Humanjii has already actioned on this thread I will leave it for him to come back and answer later

ancapailldorcha · 13-09-2010 12:26pm

axer wrote: »

Tell that to Jenny McCarthy from the university of google and funnyman carey.

Jenny McCarthy is clearly a retard.

Torakx · 13-09-2010 1:48pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Jenny McCarthy is clearly a retard.

Did she get a vaccine herself then i wonder.

pablo_escobar · 13-09-2010 2:02pm

In the title, there should have been a question mark "Vaccines are safe"? and then point out the damages awarded, i've modified it for what it's worth.

People can say she didn't deserve them but it's clear the Vaccine Court couldn't win and the next stage was a Civil Court which would have opened a can of worms, so before the inevitable showdown, the US government settled.

Many families don't have the finances to get past the Vaccine Court.
That's the whole idea of it, exhaust the finances of your claimant before they receive a fair case.

That's my opinion. You're all entitled to your own, but please refrain from insulting me and trying to shove your own opinion down my throat.

I'm glad the girl was awarded damages, she deserves every cent.

<SNIP>

13-09-2010 2:19pm

Torakx wrote: »

Did she get a vaccine herself then i wonder.

Probably.
What's more, she has no problem injecting her face with Botulinum toxin, one of the most powerful neuro-toxins on the planet.

So all her and her follower's faff about toxins and stuff seems even more ridiculous and uninformed.

Di0genes · 13-09-2010 2:22pm

pablo_escobar wrote: »

In the title, there should have been a question mark "Vaccines are safe"? and then point out the damages awarded, i've modified it for what it's worth.

People can say she didn't deserve them but it's clear the Vaccine Court couldn't win and the next stage was a Civil Court which would have opened a can of worms, so before the inevitable showdown, the US government settled.

Many families don't have the finances to get past the Vaccine Court.
That's the whole idea of it, exhaust the finances of your claimant before they receive a fair case.
[

Filing a claim with the Court of Federal Claims requires a $250 filing fee, which can be waived for those unable to pay. Medical records such as prenatal, birth, pre-vaccination, vaccination, and post-vaccination records are strongly suggested, as medical review and claim processing may be delayed without them. Because this is a legal process most people use a lawyer, though this is not required.[4] By 1999 the average claim took two years to resolve, and 42% of resolved claims were awarded compensation, as compared with 23% for medical malpractice claims through the tort system.[

The vaccine court takes a whopping $250 fee, doesn't require a lawyer and gives compensation to nearly every 2nd case.

God it sounds monstrous.

axer · 13-09-2010 2:22pm

pablo_escobar wrote: »

Many families don't have the finances to get past the Vaccine Court.
That's the whole idea of it, exhaust the finances of your claimant before they receive a fair case.

No the whole idea of it was to have a court where the complexities of vaccines could be understood instead of having a court with a jury that would be swayed by a sob story of some child that was perfectly fine one day then got a vaccination and within a few hours had become autistic. Yes those are sad stories but they are not evidence that autism and the likes is caused by vaccines but yet juries would be swayed by the mother and father crying while testifying that "she was such a sweet little girl.....".

pablo_escobar wrote: »

I'm glad the girl was awarded damages, she deserves every cent.

Why does she deserve "every cent"? The parents were looking for someone to blame for their daughters illness.

Torakx · 13-09-2010 2:36pm

pablo_escobar wrote: »

In the title, there should have been a question mark "Vaccines are safe"? and then point out the damages awarded, i've modified it for what it's worth.

People can say she didn't deserve them but it's clear the Vaccine Court couldn't win and the next stage was a Civil Court which would have opened a can of worms, so before the inevitable showdown, the US government settled.

Many families don't have the finances to get past the Vaccine Court.
That's the whole idea of it, exhaust the finances of your claimant before they receive a fair case.

That's my opinion. You're all entitled to your own, but please refrain from insulting me and trying to shove your own opinion down my throat.

I'm glad the girl was awarded damages, she deserves every cent.

Honestly just use the ignore function.It really does clean up the threads.I am still on the fence with the vaccine issue.
On one hand i "believe" or in my gut feel that it is dangerous and increases a childs chances of being autistic or have some retardation.
I see alot of people in large housing estate areas with symptoms of aspergers for example and other mental illness possibly caused by this and also maybe something in the water.
But also if i had kids i would be very worried about the things the vaccines are supposed to prevent.
Its a really tough choice for parents to take their childs life in their hands and decide on the future there and then.Most find it easier to let the governemnt decide for them so it shifts the blame onto someone else for their childs life changing forever.
I welcome all documentaries on this conspiracy.As i surely think if these vaccines are doing what i think, someone may have conspired to cause these effects.I often ponder if doctors are really being trained to kill people while taking money off them.Just a thought i have now and then when i remember the mistreatment i recieved fo very simple issues to fix.
I would honestly love to get the the bottom on this one.
I would be so happy to be able to say to people yes i checked,they are actually 99% safe.
I think that % is not right as it stands.But i also know autism can be genetic or think so anyway.

axer · 13-09-2010 3:26pm

Torakx wrote: »

On one hand i "believe" or in my gut feel that it is dangerous and increases a childs chances of being autistic or have some retardation.

Lots of epidemological studies have time and time again disproved any link between autism and vaccines. For instance 10 studies have been performed on the MMR vaccine. No link has EVER shown up.

Torakx wrote: »

I see alot of people in large housing estate areas with symptoms of aspergers for example and other mental illness possibly caused by this and also maybe something in the water.

From what I have read it looks like autism might be genetic but really they do not know for sure. It is possible that it is caused by environmental factors but there are so many variables it is going to be hard to prove either way. One thing is for sure though - it is not vaccines that is causing autism.

Torakx wrote: »

But also if i had kids i would be very worried about the things the vaccines are supposed to prevent.

Exactly the risks as calculated from epidemiological studies (so they are accurate and realistic) make the decision of taking a vaccine over not doing so a no-brainer decision.

Torakx wrote: »

Its a really tough choice for parents to take their childs life in their hands and decide on the future there and then.Most find it easier to let the governemnt decide for them so it shifts the blame onto someone else for their childs life changing forever.

No, there is plenty of scientific evidence and studies out there to read. I don't think it is that hard of a decision for a rational parent.

Torakx wrote: »

I welcome all documentaries on this conspiracy.As i surely think if these vaccines are doing what i think, someone may have conspired to cause these effects.I often ponder if doctors are really being trained to kill people while taking money off them.Just a thought i have now and then when i remember the mistreatment i recieved fo very simple issues to fix.

Documentaries spouting false science are causing deaths of children every year when parents believe their sh'it.

Torakx wrote: »

I would honestly love to get the the bottom on this one.
I would be so happy to be able to say to people yes i checked,they are actually 99% safe.
I think that % is not right as it stands.But i also know autism can be genetic or think so anyway.

Read this book by Dr. Paul Offit it is an excellent read and will explain the whole situation including the science behind vaccines:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Autisms-False-Prophets-Science-Medicine/dp/023114637X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284391395&sr=8-1
Dr. Offit is one of the inventors of a rota virus vaccine that has saved countless lives. All profit from the above book is donated to researching the cause of autism.

13-09-2010 3:39pm

axer wrote: »

No, there is plenty of scientific evidence and studies out there to read. I don't think it is that hard of a decision for a rational parent.

You don't even really have to read any studies.

Penn and Teller explain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo
Warning: Naughty words.

ancapailldorcha · 13-09-2010 3:44pm

I find it highly ironic that one of the few known causes of autism is rubella infection of the fetus.

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 4:36pm

Torakx wrote: »

Honestly just use the ignore function.It really does clean up the threads.I am still on the fence with the vaccine issue.
On one hand i "believe" or in my gut feel that it is dangerous and increases a childs chances of being autistic or have some retardation.
I see alot of people in large housing estate areas with symptoms of aspergers for example and other mental illness possibly caused by this and also maybe something in the water.
But also if i had kids i would be very worried about the things the vaccines are supposed to prevent.
Its a really tough choice for parents to take their childs life in their hands and decide on the future there and then.Most find it easier to let the governemnt decide for them so it shifts the blame onto someone else for their childs life changing forever.
I welcome all documentaries on this conspiracy.As i surely think if these vaccines are doing what i think, someone may have conspired to cause these effects.I often ponder if doctors are really being trained to kill people while taking money off them.Just a thought i have now and then when i remember the mistreatment i recieved fo very simple issues to fix.
I would honestly love to get the the bottom on this one.
I would be so happy to be able to say to people yes i checked,they are actually 99% safe.
I think that % is not right as it stands.But i also know autism can be genetic or think so anyway.

Well i have 2 sons, my first one got all his vaccines, the second one got NO vaccines at all.One of them has autism, the other doesnt.Il give you one guess which one it is.........

13-09-2010 4:57pm

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Well i have 2 sons, my first one got all his vaccines, the second one got NO vaccines at all.One of them has autism, the other doesnt.Il give you one guess which one it is.........

Well I got vaccines. My siblings all got vaccines. Most people I know got vaccines.
I don't know anyone who has autism.

So my anecdote trumps yours, right?

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 5:02pm

King Mob wrote: »

Well I got vaccines. My siblings all got vaccines. Most people I know got vaccines.
I don't know anyone who has autism.

So my anecdote trumps yours, right?

If only it was as simple as that mate.....

13-09-2010 5:06pm

Truthrevolution wrote: »

If only it was as simple as that mate.....

Gonna explain how your anecdote is more valid?

Or do you see how anecdotes are pointless in this kinda debate?

Brown Bomber · 13-09-2010 5:06pm

King Mob wrote: »

Well I got vaccines. My siblings all got vaccines. Most people I know got vaccines.
I don't know anyone who has autism.

So my anecdote trumps yours, right?

:mad:
FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

Disgraceful!

13-09-2010 5:08pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

:mad:
FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

Disgraceful!

I was illustrating a point.
It's pretty clear from the context.

Brown Bomber · 13-09-2010 5:09pm

King Mob wrote: »

I was illustrating a point.
It's pretty clear from the context.

:rolleyes:

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 5:12pm

King Mob wrote: »

Gonna explain how your anecdote is more valid?

Or do you see how anecdotes are pointless in this kinda debate?

Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not, you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.

amacachi · 13-09-2010 5:12pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

:mad:
FFS! is "winning" an online argument that important to you that you'd stoop so low?

Disgraceful!

Stoop so low? It's a discussion and because one person has a vested interest in said discussion doesn't make them more right than someone else.

13-09-2010 5:17pm

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not,

That's a good way to spread information alright....

Truthrevolution wrote: »

you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough

Yes, that's because all the medical research shows clearly that it is.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.

Unfortunately anecdotes aren't "real life evidence".

So unless you've actually got proper evidence, you could quite possibly be spreading false information that could be putting other peoples children at risk.

Brown Bomber · 13-09-2010 5:23pm

amacachi wrote: »

Stoop so low? It's a discussion and because one person has a vested interest in said discussion doesn't make them more right than someone else.

Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

amacachi · 13-09-2010 5:24pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

Where did that happen? The argument was attacked due to the hugely obvious flaw in it.

13-09-2010 5:27pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

Where did I belittle anyone's child?

Seriously BB if you're just going to make **** up...

axer · 13-09-2010 5:28pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

Are you suggesting it its wrong to question a person who is suggesting something that is completely and utterly untrue just because the persons child has autism?

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 5:28pm

King Mob wrote: »

That's a good way to spread information alright....

Yes, that's because all the medical research shows clearly that it is.

Unfortunately anecdotes aren't "real life evidence".

So unless you've actually got proper evidence, you could quite possibly be spreading false information that could be putting other peoples children at risk.

I wish i was spreading false information, but i have no reason to do that.You can google all the BS rigged "research" you want to but if your not out there talking to parents and carers of these kids then your not in the best position to take the high ground here.

Brown Bomber · 13-09-2010 5:31pm

amacachi wrote: »

Where did that happen? The argument was attacked due to the hugely obvious flaw in it.

Couldn't give a **** about this or any argument. The man's kid has autism. King mob heartlessly shat all over his statement and treated it like he would a link to a CT site.

Not everything is about wining arguments, though it appears for some it is.

Yitzhak Rabin · 13-09-2010 5:33pm

I don't see anything malicious. Truthrevolution put forward his reasons for believing vaccines were unsafe. King Mob then explained why he felt they weren't. I don't see it as belittleling.

TR, you have my sincerest of sympathies, genuinely. However, if you put forward personal information as a way of supporting your argument then if someone wants to address that point then they will have to mention your children.

Now I believe both have made their points as regards why or why not anecdotal evidence is sufficient reason to believe vaccines are unsafe, so move on with the discussion.

13-09-2010 5:35pm

Truthrevolution wrote: »

I wish i was spreading false information, but i have no reason to do that.

Well you could honestly believe false information to be true.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

You can google all the BS rigged "research" you want to

How do you know all my research against your is rigged?
How do you know your research isn't?

Truthrevolution wrote: »

but if your not out there talking to parents and carers of these kids then your not in the best position to take the high ground here.

Well I'm not qualified to give medical advice to parents or carers.

But I'm qualified enough to see junk science when I see it.

axer · 13-09-2010 5:35pm

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Yeah i see where you are coming from but tbh i dont give a s**t wether you listen to me or not, you think a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule is safe then fair enough but i have seen enough real life evidence to suggest otherwise.

The only real evidence is scientific evidence. It's people who continue to suggest and support the idea that autism and vaccinations are linked, despite the huge scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, that are slowing down autism research. Think about that.

bonkey · 13-09-2010 7:19pm

OK...apparently some people can't take a hint.

Brown Bomber and King Mob can both have a week off for picking up the bickering where the others left off.

UPDATE : I've lifted both bans, subsequent to a PM from Brown Bomber.

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 7:40pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Who said anything about being right? What I have a problem is someone belittling someones sick child.

Nice one BB, but dont worry its all water off a ducks back at this stage.

@King Mob il continue the discussion with you when your back from your ban.

Truthrevolution · 13-09-2010 7:51pm

axer wrote: »

The only real evidence is scientific evidence. It's people who continue to suggest and support the idea that autism and vaccinations are linked, despite the huge scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, that are slowing down autism research. Think about that.

Oh dont worry i have thought about a lot of things.Did you ever think that most of these "studies" are carried out by people who have a vested interest in mass scientific cover-up?
And il tell you what is slowing down progress in autism research is acually lack of research in the right areas.Scientific research mostly ignores important factors like mitochondrial problems, yeast infections, gut issues, enviromental factors and yes vaccines too.Also biomedical interventions are usually frowned upon by the mainstream scientific comunity.

pablo_escobar · 13-09-2010 8:23pm

Julie Gerberding was director of CDC from 1998 until jan 2009

In this video she claims not to know much about Hannah Poling case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fOjOUrHtoA

She's now the president of Merck Vaccine division.
But why should anyone doubt this womans sincerity?

The following video is an edited version which shows her discussing the "rare" mitochondrial disorder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ez0NymSbg

Torakx · 13-09-2010 8:50pm

Also there are ALOT of people who have mild cases of autism and its various forms.
Try look up the symptoms to aspergers,dyspraxia and autism for an example.I know alot of people who know others who are slightly autistic and they havent a clue.I see people who have it walking the streets or living nearby me and it isnt that noticeable when its very mild.
I also know people who have it! and they dont even know,which is kind of an annoying situation to have to deal with that knowledge.
But anyway i can think of 4 cases just off the top of my head where i know people who suffer from or most likely suffer from mild autism and they do not know they have it.So how many others are undiagnosed all around the country!
Do you ever see people that are acting a little strange? Maybe someone you know who is really quirky or a loner for some reason or another?
Not always but on some of these instances a form of mental illness or autism can be involved,sometimes extremely mild to a point where the symptoms can be hidden after a few years of practise and noticing what is ok in social situations and what isnt.
So when people here say that they dont know anyone who is autistic,firstly take a look at yourself very closely because you may be one of the few who has gone well into their later years without any knowledge of why you have found life more difficult to deal with than others.
And second you could have close friends/family who are autistic even very mildly and they may be able to hide nearly all their quirks.
For what its worth the people i know who suffer social difficulties because of this mild condition are actually the most loyal friends and straight talkers.Some qualities i admire in any person.
I do really suspect genetics are a big part of this.As i see it dominant in familes as in parents and kids having it in one family but none or maybe only one in another.
Which makes me think some people choosing each other and having kids could run a small risk because of their gene and dna make create a child thats genetically predisposed towards autism which afaik is some kind of damage or ristriction to the upper part of the brain which are the higher functions.Social interaction,motor functions it can be varied but i wonder does the enviornment help push it that way also.To nourish mutations in genes,maybe vaccines,maybe flouride.
Hard to say for me and ive seen alot of good arguments for and against the vaccines so i guess theres alot left i need to find out about.

"Vaccines are safe?" - Family awarded $1.5 million damages

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