"You're All Wafflers" -- Bertie Ahern

Gone West

DeV you´ve gotten more cynical with age

I remember maybe 7 or 8 years ago you were talking about how Boards could evolve into a powerful media outlet (it has) and how it could be used as a platform to launch a political "boards" party (it can), and how this place could really make a difference (it does).

southsiderosie

DeVore wrote: »

I love how people come on here and refer to Boards as if its a single biological entity rather then 300,000 individual agents, each with autonomy and opinions.

DeV.

Hence the "yes I know I am generalizing" part.

That said, if you can find a thread on here where protesters in Ireland aren't roundly mocked, more power to you.

southsiderosie

solutionsolver wrote: »

How people respond is amusing sometimes. Ok I believed the Cuban health service to be one of the best, I accept its a bit like ours from the link that followed but dropping the 'Cuban' aspect of it its top of the agenda with job creation and total reform of the civil service.

I think Irish doctors might have a problem with being farmed out to other countries in exchange for hard currency and oil.

solutionsolver wrote: »

Despite the current feeling towards politics and politicians and I am one of them that has no time for the current wasters, I believe Ireland's 18-35 year olds can be motivated. They need to be able to see candidates their own age.

If they aren't motivated by the fact that they will be paying for the follies of their elders for the rest of their working lives, then what else will work?

I'd also add that there are plenty of opportunities for young people to get involved in electoral politics. In Dublin, for example, Labour fielded a number of young candidates who won office in 2009, most notably Maria Parodi and Rebecca Moynihan. There is nothing stopping young people from having an effect on Irish politics except apathy and laziness.

solutionsolver wrote: »

(I'd say most would be in the 30 to 35 year old bracket and probably have university degrees i.e. intelligent beings not the sort depicted by several posters putting our youth into the bunch of morans bracket.

Not helping the cause here.

solutionsolver wrote: »

Nobody has much positive to say which just about sums up this nation ---as if going walking the streets will achieve anything.

Yes i do believe the people mentioned to give of their time and ability would come forward because they are interested in this country despite what you think. O'Leary - you might like like him but you have to admire him and what he has achieved ---and he pays his taxes here. O'Brien ok he doesn't pay his taxes LOL but he pays the salary of the Irish soccer manager because he wants to see Ireland do well on the world stage.

Nobody could engage in reasonable debate its sad really lets just all lie down and die (or go walk the streets chanting Govt out what BS!)

Aside from the inherent contradiction of asking wealthy older people to pay for the youth movement, why do you think a party needs a few wealthy benefactors? If they have good ideas, and get out of the ground, they can raise money directly, and build a base of support. Obama's massive campaign war chest was built on small donations, largely because people believed in what he was doing. They also volunteered their time en masse to go door knocking and make phone calls. Young people were deeply involved in his campaign. However you feel about his policies, Obama proved that it is possible to both get young people involved in politics and use the internet and social media in a non-passive way to get foot soldiers out on the ground. But that doesn't seem to be what you are suggesting here.

solutionsolver

I suggested some leaders at the top, people who have achieved and would gain respect not politicians although I mentioned two that I believe would be perceived as being acceptable. 18-35 have to be motivated to get out and vote to get rid of all the old people and wasters that are there. They badly need something they can believe in thats why there is so much disenchantment. It has to come from the ground up like Obama. Seems there is nobody with the same feelings on this board. The reason the immediate investment is required is because people don't have money to give and time is also an issue. It needs someone LIKE Ben Dunne who would come in behind a concept such as this. Nobody has come forward here with any well thought out policies yet, just knocked a few I threw out. Is there NO passion out there to change this country. Will we all just lie down and die. Is anybody interested in doing something, moving a concept like this along - SERIOUSLY!!!
It can be created and done through the media and social media for maximum fast impact ready to go when the election is called

Nijmegen

Hi Solutionsolver,


I like the fact that you're feeling like doing something. That puts you in a narrow swath of the population that is not a card carrying, dyed in the wool, member of an existing political party in our broken system.

However... I might propose that some of your concepts are coming across as a little too unpolished to be taken seriously - yet.

Don't cringe, you should take it as a positive criticism.

I'm too old to be a member of your movement anyway! (Though an age cap is illegal It's also a bit of a contrary position that the people you'd look to fund you are over 40.)

Also, if you want something to happen, a posting on boards awaiting followers to an idea won't cut it. Create something, and they will come.

solutionsolver

I'm too old as well but our children, the children of Ireland need parents like you and me. They need someone with a passion to drive them. This is where I thought I'd spark a bit of life in some of them. I've put up some policies, things like those mentioned need to be put on pages, one after another. Inventivenes, imagination, a general think tank that can then be debated and decided upon. These should be put in front of the lets call it Board of Management of this party if they could be approacehed (quietly and motivated by something like this) i.e. I suggested them above O'Leary, O'Brien, O'Connor, Dunne, Yeates and Ross to mention a few

Lenny Lovett

solutionsolver wrote: »

How people respond is amusing sometimes. Ok I believed the Cuban health service to be one of the best, I accept its a bit like ours from the link that followed but dropping the 'Cuban' aspect of it its top of the agenda with job creation and total reform of the civil service.

One of the reasons people didn't take you seriously. You picked an idea from the clouds with no intelligent research... A bit similar to how the current incumbents operate.

solutionsolver wrote: »

Its funny that some picked it up as a boards campaign heck the suggestion was boards have the database to make something happen thats all

Given that you asked for those of us that fit your criteria to send their CV's to editor@boards.ie.... Who did you think we'd believe was behind it?

solutionsolver wrote: »

Despite the current feeling towards politics and politicians and I am one of them that has no time for the current wasters, I believe Ireland's 18-35 year olds can be motivated. They need to be able to see candidates their own age (I'd say most would be in the 30 to 35 year old bracket and probably have university degrees i.e. intelligent beings not the sort depicted by several posters putting our youth into the bunch of morans bracket

Being such an intelligent chap, you'll no doubt see the irony of the highlighted words (clue: Morons). By implying that you're bunch of degree educated students and are smarter than the average forty or fifty something has just alienated much of the electorate. Not very intelligent. Also many of today's successful entrepreneurs have no third level qualifications. Equally I know many degree holders who I would not class a bright enough to leave unattended for a long period.

solutionsolver wrote: »

Nobody has much positive to say which just about sums up this nation ---as if going walking the streets will achieve anything

If you thought through your proposal a bit better and presented it a bit better and were less discriminatory (and arrogant perhaps? ref: intelligence = degree holders), maybe people would be a bit more positive. I'd say people will be a bit more discerning in their choice of Political leader from now on so potential candidates will need to be a tad smarter too.

solutionsolver wrote: »

Yes i do believe the people mentioned to give of their time and ability would come forward because they are interested in this country despite what you think. O'Leary - you might like like him but you have to admire him and what he has achieved ---and he pays his taxes here. O'Brien ok he doesn't pay his taxes LOL but he pays the salary of the Irish soccer manager because he wants to see Ireland do well on the world stage.

Nobody could engage in reasonable debate its sad really lets just all lie down and die (or go walk the streets chanting Govt out what BS!)

So you're happy to take money from the forty and fifty something business people but you don't think they'd fit the bill as candidates? Are you mad or what?

Look, I don't want to rain on your parade either but you need to think through and research your ideas before you put them out to the voters as they (and the media) will tear you apart if you pump out this type of silliness. We need serious contenders for the next and subsequent elections. People with life and business experience as well as your all important degree.

Scotty #

The Raven. wrote: »

You want the money and advice of the over-40s - and insult their intellegence in the process? :rolleyes:



Do you honestly think these people have time to waste on a bunch of amateurs? :rolleyes:

+1

I'm well under 40 but the very fact that you have such a policy would steer me well clear.

I presume women will be allowed join?

FTA69

Perfect. Change the country with a party whose agenda is setc by super-rich right-wing businessmen like O'Brien and O'Leary. With a view to copying communist Cuba's health system.

Drive on lad.

It sounds like a great project.

solutionsolver

will do thanks for your positive contribution. JNow take a walk and protest....Bertie is right all wafflers, nothing to contribute, lets keep the same
---- it'll change when some day in the near future those expecting payment from the exchequer are told sorry, money isn't there to pay you your salary this month you'll havev to do with 50%

FTA69

JNow take a walk and protest

I'm out every week leafleting, postering as well as producing my own leaflets etc to disseminate in Cork, as well as attending national protests etc and trying to participate in the work of building an actual movement.

I'm not poncing on about enlisting Michael O'Leary to create change.

Lenny Lovett

solutionsolver wrote: »

will do thanks for your positive contribution. JNow take a walk and protest....Bertie is right all wafflers, nothing to contribute, lets keep the same
---- it'll change when some day in the near future those expecting payment from the exchequer are told sorry, money isn't there to pay you your salary this month you'll havev to do with 50%

So rather than address our concerns, debate them and back up your assertions, you dismiss us all as "wafflers". Just like Bertie. Well done! You'll fit right in with the current lot.

solutionsolver

Congrats one doer on this board although I don't know what spending money on leafets will achieve. Think of a bigger picture, put together a concept, an alternative, get someone with real money to back you ---don't knowck these guys until you approach them for the means to make a real change.
Any policies anyone?

DeVore

southsiderosie wrote: »

Hence the "yes I know I am generalizing" part.

That said, if you can find a thread on here where protesters in Ireland aren't roundly mocked, more power to you.

Show me a "protester" who doesnt deserve to be mocked!

Actually no one here mocked the elderly protesters, mostly because they did it right and werent idiots about it.

DeV.

solutionsolver

DeVore wrote: »

Show me a "protester" who doesnt deserve to be mocked!

Actually no one here mocked the elderly protesters, mostly because they did it right and werent idiots about it.

DeV.

We have to stop the mentality of us protesting to them to change for us. We have to do something to make us change them -- at the next election !

lugha

OP,

Leaving aside your silly Logan's run type rule, what you are proposing is probably too little, and definitely too late. The hole we are in is well and truly dug and even were we suddenly and somehow to get only honorable and honest public representatives, it probably won't matter for the next decade, and possibly much longer.

Essentially, our POA will be about trying to keep the IMF out, which at the moment I am not confident we will succeed in doing. (That the successful pensioners action is held up as a victory for the ordinary people is indicative, IMO, of our failure to understand the kind of unpleasant medicine we must opt to take, or be compelled to).

It is not a popular thing to say in these parts, but I happen to think the current government are doing a reasonable job of handling the crisis (I exclude their banking "solution" from this view, but I don't think there is much to be gained by changing tact now). Make no mistake, I want FF out for their culpability in causing the crisis, but it is delusional to think anything other than we are in for a very rough ride for the foreseeable future, whoever we choose to lead us.

johnnyskeleton

OP, just to contrast your ideas, Plato argued that public representatives should all be over 50 and have no property or ties to property. Your solution is the exact opposite - young and well connected.

DeVore wrote: »

I love how people come on here and refer to Boards as if its a single biological entity rather then 300,000 individual agents, each with autonomy and opinions.

DeV.

Boards is an entity with 300,000 individuals and 600,000 different and contradictory opinions on the same topic.

DeVore wrote: »

Show me a "protester" who doesnt deserve to be mocked!

I'd show you these guys, but I'd probably be banned:

http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/4611