learner driver changes and new rule for test passers

robbie_998

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0901/driving.html

Wednesday, 1 September 2010 17:33
The way learner drivers are trained, tested and licensed is being overhauled as part of new measures announced today.

New learner drivers will now have to take 12 hours of compulsory driving lessons and produce a signed log, showing that they underwent supervised practise, before they can sit their driving test.

'R' plates for newly qualified drivers, increased penalty points and stricter sentences for learner and novice drivers who break road traffic laws were also announced.

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The Road Safety Authority has announced a number of changes to the learner driver system.

Driving lessons have always been a voluntary undertaking, but now they are to be made compulsory.

From 4 April 2011, new learner drivers will have to undergo 12 hours of compulsory lessons.

The compulsory lessons will have to be taken with an approved driving instructor and learners will not be able to sit their test until they can prove they have undergone this training.

Those applying for a motorbike license will have to do 16 hours and this rule comes into force on 6 December this year.

A signed log showing the driver underwent around 20 hours of supervised training will also have to be produced.

Some penalty points for learners will be doubled and they will also have a lower drink-driving limit.

The theory test and driving test will be overhauled and new sentencing options are also being developed.

Newly qualified drivers will also be subject to the new measures.

For the first two years after they pass their test, they will have to display a restricted 'R' plate and undergo a hazard perception test.

The new rules only apply to those who get their first license after these measures come into force.

Safety the key - Dempsey

Speaking about today's announcement, Transport Minister Noel Dempsey said what he and the Road Safety Authority was trying to do was make sure that when young people get cars they are safe and that other road users are safe.

Mr Dempsey said some horrific incidents had highlighted the need for increased vigilance.

He said the Government was trying to make sure that whoever goes on the road has some training, experience and skill and that they are not a danger to themselves and to others.

A young person between 17 and 24 getting into a car is five times more likely to die than a person older than that, he said.

He acknowledged that parts of the new measures would be difficult to police, but added that he believed that if you asked parents of young people who have been killed on the roads whether they thought it was a good idea, they would say yes.

Parents do have to take some responsibility for younger people, he added.

new "R" Sticker for new fully licensed drivers and another test.... hhmmmm

Mr. Gruff

robbie_998 wrote: »

From 4 April 2011, new learner drivers will have to undergo 12 hours of compulsory lessons.

Does this mean that anyone with a learner's permit at the moment won't be affected by this or is it just wishful thinking?

munchkin_utd

anyone with a permit now is not affected (according to the papers).

EDIT - it even says it in the quoted article "The new rules only apply to those who get their first license after these measures come into force."

by first licence they mean first learners permit

UpTheSlashers

I agree with stricter punishments for Novice drivers but whats the point in the "R" plates?

MascotDec85

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

I agree with stricter punishments for Novice drivers but whats the point in the "R" plates?

For the same reason L Plates are shown just now. To highlight to other road users that you the driver is newly qualified or inexperienced and hopefully allow them some leeway.

ec18

MascotDec85 wrote: »

For the same reason L Plates are shown just now. To highlight to other road users that you the driver is newly qualified or inexperienced and hopefully allow them some leeway.

to play devils advocate


or make them more of a target for on road bullying :P

UpTheSlashers

MascotDec85 wrote: »

For the same reason L Plates are shown just now. To highlight to other road users that you the driver is newly qualified or inexperienced and hopefully allow them some leeway.

Well I just dont think its necessary. In my opinion "L" plates are necessary because the driver is learning and so that other drivers might understand mistakes or slow progression. If your competent enough to pass the test I dont think "R" plates are necessary.

MascotDec85

ec18 wrote: »

to play devils advocate


or make them more of a target for on road bullying :P

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Well I just dont think its necessary. In my opinion "L" plates are necessary because the driver is learning and so that other drivers might understand mistakes or slow progression. If your competent enough to pass the test I dont think "R" plates are necessary.

Other countries disagree with your opinion and have used this system successfully for a number of years

UpTheSlashers

Fair enough.

jos22

love they way they always punish the learner drivers. while ignoring all the bad drivers on full licences. I see far more of them speeding, overtaking dangerously, not bother singling and running red lights at pedestrian crossings etc but no they not a problem on the road it just the 18-24 year old group that are.

MascotDec85

jos22 wrote: »

love they way they always punish the learner drivers. while ignoring all the bad drivers on full licences. I see far more of them speeding, overtaking dangerously, not bother singling and running red lights at pedestrian crossings etc but no they not a problem on the road it just the 18-24 year old group that are.

tbh your point is an issue for the Gardai, not the RSA.

What the RSA are trying to do is ensure the drivers of the future are better trained than they have ever been in this country. It is a long term strategy aimed at improving driver standards.

Learners in 4 or 5 years time will just accept that these are the rules and get on with it. I do have sympathy for the learners who are/will be caught in the time of transition but unfortunately it has to start somewhere.

CrazyChick18

I think its very unfair that they keep bringing out new rules for learner drivers, what they would want to do is retest all people that are on the roads for ages because if you ask me that half the problem aswell not just all young people.

Nasty_Girl

These "rules" are all well and good providing people actually stick to them.

The problem in Ireland is people don't obey the rules that are already there, like not drink driving, wearing your seatbelt, sticking to the speed limit, not driving unaccompanied while on a learner's permit.

Are these reckless types really going to get their parents to supervise them, are they really going to stick R plates on their car?

No of course not.



Penalty points and sentencing might help, provided they are actually used.

Robxxx7

The issue with enforcement of the rules is down to the Gardai and as we will know as history tells us ... they'll do feck all to enforce any of this

MascotDec85

Robxxx7 wrote: »

The issue with enforcement of the rules is down to the Gardai and as we will know as history tells us ... they'll do feck all to enforce any of this

No ADI will sign off 12 lessons unless the pupil has taken 12 lessons. I agree with your other points, they must be enforced properly or those parts will be futile

loobylou

MascotDec85 wrote: »

No ADI will sign off 12 lessons unless the pupil has taken 12 lessons. I agree with your other points, they must be enforced properly or those parts will be futile

Agreed. Indeed there would be serious tax implications for the ADI were he to do otherwise. It will be assumed by revenue that he derived income from the 12 lessons and will be assessed for tax accordingly.

booksale

Indeed, a lot of countries are doing the same. UK has the R sign policy and the R drivers are limited to drive in a certain speed regardless of the speed limit of the roads.

And in Hong Kong, new drivers are required to put on the P as well.

Ineed, I like the idea of have the R plate on for newly passed drivers.

I was always thinking to put on a sign something like 'Watch out! I have just passed my test!' after I pass my driving test (I havent done it yet).

I dont think I've got bullied on the road because of the L sign. People seem to be more lenient than more aggressive to L drivers, unless they are stupid and want to kill themselves. I hate though some drivers are driving too close behind me! But a lot more would stay a bit farther from me... hehhe which is good.

Yes, I have to say, while I was driving, I always found drivers speeding! And this gives me pressure to speed up to the speed that I may not be comfortable with. For a few times, my friends who sat beside me always asked me to speed up because I was blocking the traffic but I was doing the speed limit already! Well, sometimes I am indeed doing a bit lower than the speed limit but I feel not safe to go quicker so I slow down a bit, but not in an unbearable slow motion!!:mad: I think full licensed drivers need re-education as well.

Max Power1

booksale wrote: »

Indeed, a lot of countries are doing the same. UK has the R sign policy and the R drivers are limited to drive in a certain speed regardless of the speed limit of the roads.

And in Hong Kong, new drivers are required to put on the P as well.

Ineed, I like the idea of have the R plate on for newly passed drivers.

I was always thinking to put on a sign something like 'Watch out! I have just passed my test!' after I pass my driving test (I havent done it yet).

I dont think I've got bullied on the road because of the L sign. People seem to be more lenient than more aggressive to L drivers, unless they are stupid and want to kill themselves. I hate though some drivers are driving too close behind me! But a lot more would stay a bit farther from me... hehhe which is good.

Yes, I have to say, while I was driving, I always found drivers speeding! And this gives me pressure to speed up to the speed that I may not be comfortable with. For a few times, my friends who sat beside me always asked me to speed up because I was blocking the traffic but I was doing the speed limit already! Well, sometimes I am indeed doing a bit lower than the speed limit but I feel not safe to go quicker so I slow down a bit, but not in an unbearable slow motion!!:mad: I think full licensed drivers need re-education as well.

If you are incapable of driving at the speed limit you should not be on the road.

Slow moving drivers (whether gaybo and the RSA care to admit it or not) are as much of a hazard on the roads as people who speed.

booksale

Max Power1 wrote: »

If you are incapable of driving at the speed limit you should not be on the road.

Slow moving drivers (whether gaybo and the RSA care to admit it or not) are as much of a hazard on the roads as people who speed.

I know what you mean by Progression. But this is not what I was talking about.

My friends commented me blocking the traffic while I was already doing the speed limit. It's others who were speeding. Please read my post again. THANKS.

And in some countries, newly passed drivers are not allowed to do up to the speed limit. They are required to do a bit slower than the speed limit.

Cheers!

Max Power1

booksale wrote: »

I know what you mean by Progression. But this is not what I was talking about.

My friends commented me blocking the traffic while I was already doing the speed limit. It's others who were speeding. Please read my post again. THANKS.

And in some countries, newly passed drivers are not allowed to do up to the speed limit. They are required to do a bit slower than the speed limit.

Cheers!

Read the part of your previous post I had highlighted, which is different to what you just stated.

zielarz

Silly decision. It will only increase the cost of getting a driving license..

Max Power1

zielarz wrote: »

Silly decision. It will only increase the cost of getting a driving license..

+1

In theory it is a good idea, however as we are in ireland, it will not be enforced, (especially the R stickers) and will not work. We cannot enforce our current laws, perhaps we should enforce the laws on unnaccompanied learners before bringing in more regulations!

booksale

To Max Power:

booksale wrote: »

For a few times, my friends who sat beside me always asked me to speed up because I was blocking the traffic but I was doing the speed limit already!

Cheers!

spurious

It really doesn't matter what new rules and easily fake-able nonsense about log-books they bring in, NOBODY ENFORCES THE EXISTING RULES, so it will make no difference.

The learner system in Ireland is an awful joke.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

challengemaster

Japans way of doing things is much, much better.

This is the equivilant of R plates, displayed for 1 year


And this is required to be displayed by the elderly


They also have a graded test - Something like bronze/silver/gold and your insurance is dependant on this then.

Max Power1

booksale wrote: »

Well, sometimes I am indeed doing a bit lower than the speed limit but I feel not safe to go quicker so I slow down .

booksale wrote: »

To Max Power:





Cheers!

To booksale.

See your post above.

Booksale meet ignore list, ignore list, meet booksale.

kthxbye

Diddler82

Sounds very like the Australian way of doing things....nothing wrong with it either.

Something I would like to see that they do also is double points on Long weekends...seems to do the trick over here!

loobylou

Max Power1 wrote: »

If you are incapable of driving at the speed limit you should not be on the road.

Slow moving drivers (whether gaybo and the RSA care to admit it or not) are as much of a hazard on the roads as people who speed.

This is the learn to drive forum. It is quite obvious that Booksale is a learner driver.
For this reason he will be displaying L plates and other drivers will just have to make an allowance for that fact.
It is not reasonable to expect that L drivers will drive as fast as everybody else. What you do automatically requires conscious thought/planning for a learner and thus needs more time.

Max Power1

loobylou wrote: »

This is the learn to drive forum. It is quite obvious that Booksale is a learner driver.
For this reason he will be displaying L plates and other drivers will just have to make an allowance for that fact.
It is not reasonable to expect that L drivers will drive as fast as everybody else. What you do automatically requires conscious thought/planning for a learner and thus needs more time.

I only passed my test in june, and only started driving last november. i was never a danger to other road users because I went too slow

loobylou

Max Power1 wrote: »

I only passed my test in june, and only started driving last november. i was never a danger to other road users because I went too slow

Nobody here (to my knowledge) suggested you did.
That said I'm sure you did not always drive at the speed limit which is what you are suggesting other learners should be doing.
I know exactly what Booksale meant.
Sometimes I am driving a car with L plates. It seems to enrage some people who (weirdly) seem to think that if they drive very close behind me it will make me go faster.
If I do that journey in a car without L plates, (same driving manner/same speed), people do not tailgate me.
Go figure

Max Power1

loobylou wrote: »

Nobody here (to my knowledge) suggested you did.
That said I'm sure you did not always drive at the speed limit which is what you are suggesting other learners should be doing.
I know exactly what Booksale meant.
Sometimes I am driving a car with L plates. It seems to enrage some people who (weirdly) seem to think that if they drive very close behind me it will make me go faster.
If I do that journey in a car without L plates, (same driving manner/same speed), people do not tailgate me.
Go figure

I did. I am suggesting learners should be driving at the speed limit. It is dangerous to be on the road if you are below the spped limit. You are causing an obstruction; even in the test you are marked if you do not drive at the limit.

loobylou

I agree with you only to the extent that, if conditions allow, drivers should drive at the speed limit.
What you must allow is that this is not always feasable for a learner.
Would you expect a learner on maybe his 2nd or 3rd lesson, probably working on proper steering, to be driving at 60 or 80 kph? Did you?
Thats why they have L plates, so other road users can make allowances for their inexperience.
You especially, as a recently qualified driver, should understand this.

Max Power1

loobylou wrote: »

I agree with you only to the extent that, if conditions allow, drivers should drive at the speed limit.
What you must allow is that this is not always feasable for a learner.
Would you expect a learner on maybe his 2nd or 3rd lesson, probably working on proper steering, to be driving at 60 or 80 kph? Did you?
Thats why they have L plates, so other road users can make allowances for their inexperience.
You especially, as a recently qualified driver, should understand this.

I never went onto a public road until I felt confident and able to keep to the speed of following traffic.

My first 1 or2 times driving was in an industrial estate at the weekend!

challengemaster

Idd, - The L means you're learning, it doesn't give you a free pass to be an obstruction.

Same mentality that hazard warning lights mean you can park wherever the hell you want.

loobylou

Perhaps some people have more of an aptitude for driving than others.
Maybe it came easily to you.
Back in the real world though its not so easy. Thats why these restrictions are put on learners. You cannot expect learners to drive to the same standard as experienced drivers, if that were the case we would'nt need a driving test.

Anyway, this is all off topic:(

bedrock#1

To all those discussing the speed LIMIT..... it is just that..... the LIMIT..... NOT the speed you must drive at.... the clue is in the title.... :rolleyes:

loobylou

bedrock#1 wrote: »

To all those discussing the speed LIMIT..... it is just that..... the LIMIT..... NOT the speed you must drive at.... the clue is in the title.... :rolleyes:

Please no.... we've already been here .. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056012969

Max Power1

bedrock#1 wrote: »

To all those discussing the speed LIMIT..... it is just that..... the LIMIT..... NOT the speed you must drive at.... the clue is in the title.... :rolleyes:

Tell that to the RSA then.

You will fail your test if you drive consistently below the speed limit (ie do 30 kmh in a 50 zone).

Heres a rolleyes back at you, does it make my post worthwhile too?
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

booksale

I am reading a book called 'Steer Clear - Driver Education Manual. The key to safer driving on Irish roads'. It said in the book that the speed limit is not a target you have to meet. 'The purpose of a speed limit is to inform you of the maximum safe speed that has been determined for the road in optimum conditions'. It also said 'Because you wont always drive in ideal circumstances, you need to accout for road conditions, the weather, unusal traffic, vulerable road users, your alertness, how far you can see and anything else that may pose a harzard or hamper your ability to detect one - and then reduce your speed as appropriate.'

Learners and newly passed drivers are having less alertness, road experiences and capacity, I dont think it's unreasonable for them to drive a bit slower than the speed limit.

My driving experience so far (in city or on country road) is that even I am doing the speed limit (may it be 50km/h, 60km/h, 80km/h, 100km/h etc), a lot of cars behind me would still overtake me.

Of course I have done under the speed limit, but as I said, I was not unbearable slow, not 30km/h on a 50km/h road anyway.

challengemaster

Most people dont exactly stick to the limits because either the council picked them out of a hat, or 'optimum conditions' was deemed during a flood in the middle of winter

I've driven on plenty of roads around the country, and I don't honestly believe there's one correctly assigned speed limit. You could find roads with as good a roads surface as the m4/m6 yet 80km/h, and random drops to 50km/h in places where there's no change in road conditions. And everyone knows about the local 1 car width road that has a speed limit of 80km/h as well...

Max Power1

challengemaster wrote: »

Most people dont exactly stick to the limits because either the council picked them out of a hat, or 'optimum conditions' was deemed during a flood in the middle of winter

I've driven on plenty of roads around the country, and I don't honestly believe there's one correctly assigned speed limit. You could find roads with as good a roads surface as the m4/m6 yet 80km/h, and random drops to 50km/h in places where there's no change in road conditions. And everyone knows about the local 1 car width road that has a speed limit of 80km/h as well...

Not to mention how roads automatically get moved from 100 kmh to 80 kmh when there is a toll road opened!

face1990

I'm learning to drive at the moment, and I have found that even when I'm driving at the speed limit, progressing steadily, other drivers tailgate and make ridiculous & dangerous maneuvers to get past me.
Even in the instructors car, with the pyramid of Ls on the roof, they do the same.

I'd be worried an R plate could lead to the same responses from other motorists, which I don't think would make it any safer for inexperienced drivers. My L plate doesn't make me feel safer or more confident on the road and I look forward to being rid of it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ihateclowns11

So i have applied for my bike test and should be doing it in about 8 weeks or so,if i pass will that mean i dont have to wear a retard sticker (r sticker),because i passed before december when rules come into effect.Or have these retard plates come into effect now?

MascotDec85

ihateclowns11 wrote: »

So i have applied for my bike test and should be doing it in about 8 weeks or so,if i pass will that mean i dont have to wear a retard sticker (r sticker),because i passed before december when rules come into effect.Or have these retard plates come into effect now?

Nice phrasing :rolleyes: But no, a "R" plate will not apply to you

XDivaX

Hi

Wondering what those new rules mean for newly qualified drivers- I passed test at end of March but only got around to sending away for full licence. Read something about 6points or something??

mle1324

XDivaX wrote: »

Hi

Wondering what those new rules mean for newly qualified drivers- I passed test at end of March but only got around to sending away for full licence. Read something about 6points or something??

New rules don't affect you as you already had your permit before April.

elbee

While displaying L plates, I've been beeped at, harrassed and tailgated for doing such awfully dangerous things as reducing speed when going into a sharp bend on to a residential road with lots of children on it. Can't wait to be rid of them and I'm hoping the R plates won't apply to me.

We do need a better driving training system, but it's hard to have faith in any new measures when the old ones aren't enforced. I don't drive unaccompanied, ever, and I am the only learner I know who doesn't. I'm actually doing it now as an experiment to prove it's possible, because every learner I know has bought their own car and drives unaccompanied without a second thought. I'm not saying driving unaccompanied is dangerous, but it is illegal and people just don't care. Until they're given a reason to care, people will just keep doing it, and other things that are illegal, because they feel they can.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I'm going to book me theory test this week for next month some time. Do I have to have the 12 hours done before I take the theory test or can I do them after it?

It's all a bit confusing.

elbee

baz2009 wrote: »

I'm going to book me theory test this week for next month some time. Do I have to have the 12 hours done before I take the theory test or can I do them after it?

It's all a bit confusing.

Your theory test is just to get you a learner's permit, so it goes like this:

Step 1: Do your theory test
Step 2: Send off all the necessary stuff for getting the permit (photos, eyesight report, theory test cert, application form etc, full list is here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/learner_driving_permits_for_cars_and_work_vehicles.html)

Step 3: Take your 12 mandatory lessons
Step 4: Apply for test.

(hopefully followed by Step 5: pass test!)

Best of luck with the theory test!