learner drivers getting hung out to dry once again

Dartz

I wonder I wonder, if it's not more complicated than 'careless young people'.

Has anybody noticed that road safety has also seemed to follow the general trend of more safe cars on the roads? Over the last ten years or so, the figure's dropped because cars have gotten a hell of a lot stronger.

Also consider who's most likely to be driving an older car, likely something cheap and small and insurable, and likely to crumple up like tinfoil (relatively) the moment it hits something. Also remember who's most likely to have a full load of passengers in that car, rather than just be pootling around by themselves.

munchkin_utd

The recommendations being implemented are listed in the document below.

The central point of the document is that learning to drive in future should be about becoming a good, safe driver, not simply acquiring a limited set of technical skills in an urban setting in order to pass a test.

Its ironic that we are seeing carnage on country roads, yet till now only your skill in driving in town was of concern to the powers that be!!

Thats all changing now and theres even mention of driving on the motorway being part of the cumpulsary lessons in the recommendation document.
(it would though require a simple change in the law that learners CAN drive on the motorway in the exceptional circumstance of being in an official driving lesson with an approved instructor)

(NOTE: rsa site is pretty slow at the moment whatever the matter is)
http://rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/GDL/Graduated%20Driving%20Licensing%20Recommendations%202009.pdf

more links and a press release
http://rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/RSA-announce-nine-additional-measures-to-protect-learner-and-inexperienced-drivers/

stovelid

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is part of the problem how in gods name can mindsets be chanegd when its perfectly acceptable for people to drive for 3 years without having done the test?

Because we live in a country where any move to force people to demonstrate their ability to drive in order to get behind the wheel is viewed as a violation of people's human rights.

As if these people were forced at gunpoint to build their lives and jobs around driving without actually ever passing a driving test.

My wife passed her test outside Ireland and not only was the test more comprehensive, but if you failed the test, you were not allowed to drive. As should be.

pickarooney

This notion of copying the procedure in place in the majority of European countries is a real Irish solution!

R0ot

Figures that this comes out when me and the OH plan on learning to drive.

skepticalone

so, say i passed my theory test last week , if i get my skates on now and apply to do my test , will i be able to do so without the lessons ? p. s i do hold a full licence from u s a but its not recognised here , so i need to get an irish one, have 20 yrs driving experience behind me , hardly a candidate for the lessons ...lol

Cookie_Monster

pickarooney wrote: »

This notion of copying the procedure in place in the majority of European countries is a real Irish solution!

why? They work, ours doesn't

mickydoomsux

Great piece by Kevin Myers about the deaths of young drivers in todays Indo.

Fair play to him but i can see a huge backlash because we hate the truth in this country. Free speech unless you say something people don't agree is the order of the day in Ireland.

Let's all just wring our hands and talk in whispered tones about the 'poor craters' because we don't want to offend anyone.

coffee_cake

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Great piece by Kevin Myers about the deaths of young drivers in todays Indo.

Fair play to him but i can see a huge backlash because we hate the truth in this country. Free speech unless you say something people don't agree is the order of the day in Ireland.

Let's all just wring our hands and talk in whispered tones about the 'poor craters' because we don't want to offend anyone.

He may have a point but WHY does he have to overuse "for" in every single article he writes? Did someone beat into him that he should never start a sentence with "because"?

Luxie

Minstrel27 wrote: »

You should see what learners must do in some other countries OP.

Yep. Round my way, it's minimum 20, with extra (not sure how many) on a fake snow surface.

Then to actually get the licence you need a list of paperwork as long as your arm.

Sitec

Having to do 12+ lessons is silly. If you're able to pass the test you are able to drive.


Another money spinner is all this is.

Cantona's Collars

Sitec wrote: »

Having to do 12+ lessons is silly. If you're able to pass the test you are able to drive.


Another money spinner is all this is.

The driving test in it's current form is not a true reflection of real world driving.Anyone who has sat a test will know that nobody drives like they're expected to do in a test.You can pass your test but still not be competent on the nations' roads.I took 3 lessons before I ever sat a test-the first was 2 years before and 2 lessons just before I sat the test to iron out the kinks. So passing a test isn't neccesarily a reflection on whether you're a good driver or not. (BTW-I breezed through the test)

kylith

I can't drive, but I'm studying my theory test book in anticipation of arranging a day for the theory exam. Initially I was pissed off at the extra expense of having to do 12 compulsory lessons before, but then I got to thinking about it: it's a 2 tonne block of metal that's fueled by fire and can travel in excess of 100mph. It's actually a good idea that someone won't be able to do a few hours with Uncle Jim before going for their test. Proper, accredited, training in the operation of dangerous machinery is a very good idea.

coffee_cake

Sitec wrote: »

Having to do 12+ lessons is silly. If you're able to pass the test you are able to drive.

Apart from the test not having to cover roundabouts (not strictly anyway) nor motorways? People haven't a clue how to drive on either

starbelgrade

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why? They work, ours doesn't

You just made that up - didn't you?

Ireland actually has the 2nd safest roads in Europe & we have a less strict learner driver process. In countries where similar schemes are in place, accident rates are higher.

30H!3

I think the driving test should cost €900, and you have to do 1000 lessons before you are allowed sit it, then you are limited to under 1 litre cars for the first 12 years driving, and if you get any penalty points within the first 6 years you lose your license for 20 years, and you aren't allowed carry any passengers, ever, in fact all seats but the drivers should be permanently removed or else a €7500 fine.

karlog

30H!3 wrote: »

I think the driving test should cost €900, and you have to do 1000 lessons before you are allowed sit it, then you are limited to under 1 litre cars for the first 12 years driving, and if you get any penalty points within the first 6 years you lose your license for 20 years, and you aren't allowed carry any passengers, ever, in fact all seats but the drivers should be permanently removed or else a €7500 fine.

That sounds a bit too lenient for my liking. MAKE IT STRICTER!!!

stovelid

If the driving test is a such a piece of piss for all the highly-skilled drivers who dispute its relevance, it should follow that they have no reason to avoid it and will all be doing (and acing) it as soon as possible.

mikerowsopht

most other EU countries you need to have 25 lessons by a driving pro.
here they are going to let your parents sign the logs if they take them out driving which will obvioulsy be abused and is a waste of time for that reason.

I personally would love to see all young beginner drivers driving around in smart cars limited to 30bhp and 50mph instead of seeing loud horribly done up cars being driven instead by dese yung uns, it would be hilarious.

However I would not be saying this unless I had a full icense which I do so HA HA

mconigol

Just teach people how to drive while they're in school...make it compulsory.

Regardless of what we may prefer, driving is our transport policy and with the way things are now it is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. The majority of Irish people will and do need to know how to drive properly.

Cookie_Monster

starbelgrade wrote: »

You just made that up - didn't you?

Ireland actually has the 2nd safest roads in Europe & we have a less strict learner driver process. In countries where similar schemes are in place, accident rates are higher.

lower pop density and lower driver density is a big part of that. And anyway what does the test have to do with accident rates. Its about being legally passed to drive, it doesn't automatically make you a safer driver.

The system we have here is massively flawed, you can drive unaccompanied without a licence without fear of any punishment. Even if you are caught by the Gardai, they write a ticket and let you go on your way again. Test here covers very little, no night driving, no motorways, no skid control, no emergency stop etc.

Naikon

I would support the RSA move on the condition of some hardcore evidence to support the descisions being made. So far, the justification for these decisions seem to support the notion that "hey guys, we can scrape an extra x euro every year by doing this!" It's plainly obvious these measures probably won't reduce the number of deaths on the road. Revenue scheme tbh. Sadly, incidents like the 5 killed last week will become more commonplace I suspect.

johnmcdnl

The lessons are the problem - they only teach technical aspects of driving - nohting else

if speed kills then put the speedlimiters in every car in the country - no more speeding in ireland boo hoo boy racers...

anyone who illegally removes there speed limiter will loose the license for 6 months

this will stop not only young lads from speeding but everyonne

zero alcohol tolerance for everyone driving - this 20ml law is ridicoulus too for only learner drivers - I've seen young lads who can handle a pint a lot better than older pepople bt that's besides the point - why just young people - besides from where I'm from no young lad that I know drives if there drinkinga at all - just isn't worth it... why not just lower it for everyone..

why not put driving on a motorway into the test??? and if the candidate can drive on the motorway without lessons well then why should be pay to learn to use motorway....

why not just put the extra bits intp the test and if you NEED lessons then pay for them - but for a young Michael Schumacher who can drive without lessons they shouldn't be forced to pay for lessons...

the lessons won't slow the young lads down - so why pealise everyone....

speed limiters are the only thing that will slow drivers down...

kingtut

I don't see the problem being just young learner drivers!!

It is people speeding and not following common sense like not indicating, not knowing how to use a roundabout, tailgating, overtaking at bends, showing off and so on.

There will always be idiots on the road. What we need is police on the dangerous roads! NOT on the main roads where nothing ever happens! It is the back windy roads that most of the accidents that occur on.

In my experience it is taxi drivers and lorry drivers who are to blame when it comes to not having a clue how to drive properly.

The sooner the RSA / police / government target the RIGHT people on the RIGHT roads the better!

I'm sick of the "let's blame the learner driver" bull$hit!! (and I am not one of them by the way, I have had a full driver's license for 3 years).

/rant :mad::mad::mad:

Dempsey

I agree that learning to drive should be apart of the education system of this country.

The lessons are the problem - they only teach technical aspects of driving - nohting else

if speed kills then put the speedlimiters in every car in the country - no more speeding in ireland boo hoo boy racers...

anyone who illegally removes there speed limiter will loose the license for 6 months

this will stop not only young lads from speeding but everyonne

zero alcohol tolerance for everyone driving - this 20ml law is ridicoulus too for only learner drivers - I've seen young lads who can handle a pint a lot better than older pepople bt that's besides the point - why just young people - besides from where I'm from no young lad that I know drives if there drinkinga at all - just isn't worth it... why not just lower it for everyone..

why not put driving on a motorway into the test??? and if the candidate can drive on the motorway without lessons well then why should be pay to learn to use motorway....

why not just put the extra bits intp the test and if you NEED lessons then pay for them - but for a young Michael Schumacher who can drive without lessons they shouldn't be forced to pay for lessons...

the lessons won't slow the young lads down - so why pealise everyone....

speed limiters are the only thing that will slow drivers down...

Contradict yourself or what!! :pac:

Why should I have to fork out extra money for a speed limiter, like you said why penalise everyone for the actions of an minority?

Same goes for alcohol, why does everyone have to suffer. You want to introduce the possibility of someone getting done for any trace of alcohol in their system? In Ireland? Alot of people who arent suffering from alcohol related impairment could fail the test. That wouldnt be fair and targeting a group that isnt causing accidents. Yes, it should be the law for provisional & u18 drivers but not for adults, the current limit is fine.

Also, I think that night time driving, motorway driving, skid control & emergency stop should be integrated in the test, they are skills that can reduce accidents.

pickarooney

johnmcdnl wrote: »

why not put driving on a motorway into the test??? and if the candidate can drive on the motorway without lessons well then why should be pay to learn to use motorway....

Motorway driving certainly should be on the test, but it's kind of scary to think that people would drive on a motorway on some assumption that they would be able to, possibly because they drove a Massey Ferguson around the beet field when they were ten.

Young people in the country, who need to drive for work should not be allowed on the road after 8pm and at any time in a vehicle with a top speed of over 60kph.

Agricola

What they need to do is make the legal driving age 25. That would stop nearly all the road carnage problems over night. But since thats not really practical, making it extremely difficult for 17 and 18 year olds to get behind a wheel is the next best thing.
When I started driving in the late 90's, all I had to do was send off for a provisional license in the post, then hop in the car and off I went! No questions asked. We're only now starting to cop on to how ridiculous that situation was. Even with these new rules, it still wont be as difficult or expensive to get a driving license in Ireland as it is in some EU countries.

falan

pickarooney wrote: »

Young people in the country, who need to drive for work should not be allowed on the road after 8pm and at any time in a vehicle with a top speed of over 60kph.

But that wouldn't work. What about all the young people who work shifts? Would they have to give up work and get a day job?

jdooley28

You know with the log book thing? What do u do if your parents don't drive?

Fuhrer

Rather then making them take an arbitrary amount of lessons how about the test being broken into two parts or something similar.


I mean, you could get lucky and luck your way through one test but another test two or so weeks apart would show if you can consistently follow the rules and whatnot.