learner drivers getting hung out to dry once again

CrazyRabbit

These changes presume that most accidents are caused by lack of skill/training. That's simply not the case. It's lack of experience and a disregard for the rules of the road and indeed for other motorists.

All they need to do is hand out 2 year driving bans for any motoring offence and you'll instantly see much a better standard of driving.

CreepingDeath

spider_pig wrote: »

learner drivers getting hung out to dry once again

Proper order too.

I was driving home from Drogheda on Sunday and saw two learner drivers on the M1/M50 badly undertaking and cutting up people in the right hand lane.
The second learner driver overtook as many cars as possible before cutting into the left hand lane about 100 metres from the exit ramp.

Definitely agree that there should be increased penalties for learner drivers.

starlit

Its not just a lack of skill/experience, Its speed is the biggest culprit after that is drunk driving/over the limit, wrecklessness, poor judgement/decision making and not knowing the rules of the road have all a part to play in accidents.

pow wow

I think they should have those 'how is my driving?' stickers on the back with a phone number like some vans have

starlit

pow wow wrote: »

I think they should have those 'how is my driving?' stickers on the back with a phone number like some vans have

That might be an idea!

Might be a good idea for those who got their licences at the post office before it was compulsory to do a driving test, to consider doing a driving specialised driving test for them now! That'll teach them!

Irishchick

Learner drivers are not the problem. Its speed. I know plenty of fully licensed drivers who drive like lunatics.

There needs to a be a bigger clamp down on speed and the Garda need to actually enforce the rules of the road.

Dartz

Now watch the price of lessons go up and up....

It'll be just like the insurance. Because it's mandatory, they'll charge an arm and a bloody leg for it.

Ali Babba

I don't agree that speed is the problem, it's lack of respect for other road users and lack of skill and experience are the main factors. I think these new measures are over the top as usual in this country like most measures to control the public here, baffle them and tie them up with rules and regulations and when anyone asks a question nobody knows the answer or is there to police it anyway.

viclemronny

snuggles285 wrote: »

Yes I think its more harsh on those who are new learner drivers and just starting out now. I have been learning for two years and its been quiet pricey. I understand the costs while newer learner drivers will be hit hard a lot more if there is a possibility that price of lessons could increase in price. I have had to shop around for good value. Got the value I wanted but don't know if I learnt enough from the instructor to be worth the value. I be willing to pay more If I knew the driving instructor would get me to a pass standard for the driving test and get me out of the constant rut I am in at the moment where I am stopping and starting, not making any progress from who ever I am being taught by to learn to drive and have to face starting from scratch again!:(

Am I to understand by this that you have been driving on the roads for the guts of 2 years without yet passing a test stating that you are capable of safely driving?

starlit

viclemronny wrote: »

Am I to understand by this that you have been driving on the roads for the guts of 2 years without yet passing a test stating that you are capable of safely driving?

Yes I have been learning to drive the past two years but It has been very broken such as I have a couple of months of lessons, then stop due to bad weather conditions and other comittments and might not drive again for 2-4 months, confidence breaks down, nerves get the better of me again and then start driving again and the same cycle starts again...so never have been able to constantly drive on a monthly basis since I started. I'd say I really only have about a years driving experience overall. I really still see myself as a beginner still and no where near ready for my test. Neve done one. Hope to within the next year.

starbelgrade

Reasons why this proposed legislations is a pile of c*ck;

1. The most dangerous drivers on the road, statistically, are male drivers aged 17-24. Women drivers in the same age bracket are statistically the safest drivers on the road out of all road users, yet they are being lumped into the same category as young men, making it very inequitable.

2. This legislation will apply to all learner drivers, so even someone in their 30s will be lumped in with the young male drivers.

3. Systems like this are in place across Europe, yet there is no evidence to suggest that they reduce accidents at all. In fact Ireland - which doesn't yet have the system - has the safest roads per capita in Europe after Norway (which has much better roads).

4. It will be extremely difficult to police.

5. It will cost parents of young people, or young people themselves, around an extra €500 to get a driving license, without any evidence at all to suggest that it will reduce road deaths or accidents.



The main problem on our roads are young male drivers - mainly due to the fact that they take more risks than everybody else. The only way to gurantee that they reduce their level of risk taking is to reduce their levels of testosterone, but as that's not going to happen, you have to look at alternative methods & not blanket schemes that will cost everybody more money & most likely will achieve nothing.

It's a typical Irish solution to a problem - instead of examining the problem carefully & coming up with an educated & informed solution, we are yet again bringing in legislation purely as a knee-jerk reaction & to be seen to be doing something.

lord lucan

This also includes Motorcycles too btw. The new Compulsory Basic Training for Motorcycles takes effect from December 6th. You'll need 16 hours of training on a bike.

Noffles

Just learn to drive, pass your test then go out and drive... like they do in any normal country... if you haven't passed a test.. don't drive, unless accompanied by a driver!

inforfun

pow wow wrote: »

I think they should have those 'how is my driving?' stickers on the back with a phone number like some vans have

Yes.. with a voting system so you can vote them off the road

spider_pig

Noffles wrote: »

Just learn to drive

ya should tell that to the taxi drivers of dublin

mikemac

If I were unemployed with a car and reckoned I could pass an advanced driving test then I'd be jumping for joy at this.

A lot of people are going to try to get into this self employed market

12 hours for cars and 16 hours for motorcycles.

MakaDonVeli

I agree with whats being proposed etc.

But i had to laugh earlier when i saw a driving instructor complain that 12 lessons wasn't enough, he recommended 20 or 30.

Obviously thinking about his pocket.

Dempsey

This is just a complete money racket, like the NCT. If I was doing my test again, I'd be foaming at the mouth over this.

Is there proper figures to even support this legislation? I doubt it.

Drake66

Morlar wrote: »

Well a lot of people especially growing up on farms will know how to drive a car without needing 16x lessons from a driving instructor. A lot more people are more comfortable learning from a partner or a parent so making lessons from driving schools/instructors compulsory to those people simply means additional un-needed cost. The cost of lessons has gone up a lot - someone recently told me (this could be way wrong) it was now €50 per lesson. I'd prefer them to overhaul the TEST system rather than making driving instructors compulsory.

The other parts about R plates for 2x years and increased penalty points I would agree with.

If you cannot afford the price 12 mandatory lessons you have no business being on the road. Driving is an expensive privilege, not an carefree right. This jackie healy rae country cop out is maddening: just because you are from a rural background does not excuse you from the requirement to learn how to drive correctly; and getting a few lessons from Bill down the road does not constitute learning how to drive.

Dempsey

Drake66 wrote: »

If you cannot afford the price 12 mandatory lessons you have no business being on the road. Driving is an expensive privilege, not an carefree right. This jackie healy rae country cop out is maddening: just because you are from a rural background does not excuse you from the requirement to learn how to drive correctly; and getting a few lessons from Bill down the road does not constitute learning how to drive.

Then whats the point of forcing a fully licensed driver beside you if they aren't helping/good enough to show you how to drive. You saying the provisional system should be scrapped?

My father taught me more about driving than my 'RSA-ADI'. The ADI just helped me get through the red tape for cheaper car insurance, thats it.

Kidchameleon

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Proper order too.

I was driving home from Drogheda on Sunday and saw two learner drivers on the M1/M50 badly undertaking and cutting up people in the right hand lane.
The second learner driver overtook as many cars as possible before cutting into the left hand lane about 100 metres from the exit ramp.

Definitely agree that there should be increased penalties for learner drivers.

Just because there's an L sign on the car, doesn't necessarily mean there's a learner behind the wheel...

Another point, will insurance companies take advantage of this R plate thing? Like, charge unreal amounts until the R plate comes off?

johnmcdnl

For all you city drivers here who think your above us culchies when it comes to learning to drive - have you being driving cars from 10 or 11 years of age down your lane or around the yard - didn't think so

what have any of ye learned in a driving lesson - how to do hill starts, how to reverse around corners, how to use your indicator etc etc

every young lad and a fair few girls around the place have been doing this from when our legs were long enough to reach the pedals...

making the likes of us have to do 12 lessons is absolutely unfair - there's nothing major we're going to learn at a lesson

3-4 lessons is more than enough for anyone who's well fit to drive...

and for those who's going to jump in and say my parents are qualified instructors - neither of my parents have been in a crash or anything like it for as long as I can remember - are you saying that what they teach me is dangerous or wrong?? if it's done them why can't it do me...


I'll admit that I probably need a couple of lessons to learn a few little bits here and there and to help me pass the test - but forcing 12 hours of lessons or whatever it is is completed unfair and is going to prevent a lot of young people from learning to drive - not everyone car afford that much for lessons especially seeing as they can already drive fairly confidently...

it's something ye city folk will never understand - we've grown up in cars unlike you and ye'll never get that... it's second nature to us using cars in tight situations etc etc etc....

12 hours of lessons isn't going to do anything to make the road safer - do you honestly think 12 hours of lessons is going to make the lads that want to rally round the roads stop - no - i didn't think so... this will just make it harder to get a license is all - nothing else

CD.

the lower alcohol limit is stupid, alcohol in your system is alcohol in your system.

a 19 year old and 40 year old with the same alcohol level would be of equal risk, if anything, the 40 year old would be more dangerous because they could think that, as their alcohol limit is higher, they are safer after drinking.

the limit should be the same for everyone, if they are going to lower it, they should lower it for everyone and not just restricted drivers.

round tower huntsman

well since i got my full license i do actually agree that L drivers are a danger to the public and should be persecuted relentlessly:D

starbelgrade

Dempsey wrote: »

This is just a complete money racket, like the NCT. If I was doing my test again, I'd be foaming at the mouth over this.

Is there proper figures to even support this legislation? I doubt it.

Yes - I pointed out some RSA statistics in my last post.

Another point to note is that this is being suggested, even though we have the 2nd safest roads in Europe & that last year saw the least amount of road fatalities in the country ever.

Kidchameleon

CD. wrote: »

the lower alcohol limit is stupid, alcohol in your system is alcohol in your system.

a 19 year old and 40 year old with the same alcohol level would be of equal risk, if anything, the 40 year old would be more dangerous because they could think that, as their alcohol limit is higher, they are safer after drinking.

the limit should be the same for everyone, if they are going to lower it, they should lower it for everyone and not just restricted drivers.

+1

You shouldn't get behind the wheel with so much as a tea spoon of beer...

Drake66

johnmcdnl wrote: »

For all you city drivers here who think your above us culchies when it comes to learning to drive - have you being driving cars from 10 or 11 years of age down your lane or around the yard - didn't think so

what have any of ye learned in a driving lesson - how to do hill starts, how to reverse around corners, how to use your indicator etc etc

every young lad and a fair few girls around the place have been doing this from when our legs were long enough to reach the pedals...

making the likes of us have to do 12 lessons is absolutely unfair - there's nothing major we're going to learn at a lesson

3-4 lessons is more than enough for anyone who's well fit to drive. ..

and for those who's going to jump in and say my parents are qualified instructors - neither of my parents have been in a crash or anything like it for as long as I can remember - are you saying that what they teach me is dangerous or wrong?? if it's done them why can't it do me...


I'll admit that I probably need a couple of lessons to learn a few little bits here and there and to help me pass the test - but forcing 12 hours of lessons or whatever it is is completed unfair and is going to prevent a lot of young people from learning to drive - not everyone car afford that much for lessons especially seeing as they can already drive fairly confidently...

it's something ye city folk will never understand - we've grown up in cars unlike you and ye'll never get that... it's second nature to us using cars in tight situations etc etc etc....

12 hours of lessons isn't going to do anything to make the road safer - do you honestly think 12 hours of lessons is going to make the lads that want to rally round the roads stop - no - i didn't think so... this will just make it harder to get a license is all - nothing else

Yeah exactly you do three lessons and everything is perfect; and because you are from the country you are as skilled as Jackie Stewart. You are the best drivers in the world no doubt.

Naikon

This is complete bull****. Why on earth are the RSA introducing the concept of driving "homework" along with mandatory "RSA approved" lessons. Sounds like a money making racket to me. Is there any statistical evidence to actually back up these decisions, or is this the product of our Irish nanny state? I fail to see how these rules will actually reduce road deaths per year. Silly move on the RSA's part. Looks like I will have to get my licence up north from now on...

Dempsey

Drake66 wrote: »

Yeah exactly you do three lessons and everything is perfect; and because you are from the country you are as skilled as Jackie Stewart. You are the best drivers in the world no doubt.

I know of people good enough to pass the test 1st time and zero lessons, no doubt they arent the only ones, no doubt there are people that dont need 12 lessons to prove themselves too. Why should everyone be subjected to the rules needed for the incompetent? The current system does catch them out.

johnmcdnl

Drake66 wrote: »

Yeah exactly you do three lessons and everything is perfect; and because you are from the country you are as skilled as Jackie Stewart. You are the best drivers in the world no doubt.

well seeing as a lot of us have 10 years of driving behind us compared to you's who have maybe 8-9 months before going for a test

I'm sure I've picked a bit since I started driving



this isn't going to save lives - that's the point - if if was genuinely going to save lives then I would have no problem but it won't - young lads who want to drive at 100mph on a back country road are going to do it still regardless of these new rules so it's just a money making racket and looks good to the public so the government's rating goes up - it's just putting unnecessary costs on young people wanting to learn to drive

it's just completely unfair - I'm sure jackie steward jr wouldn't need 12 lessons either seeing as you mentioned him - would 12 lessons make him a better driver:rolleyes: if you need 12 lessons you'll know yourself but if micky joe can go in and pass without ever getting a lesson micky joe shouldn't have to pay 600 euro in lessons to "learn"