Irish Red Cross vs Blogger

DeVore

Medicins Sans Frontier is my current donatee

I hate the idea removing support for a charity because of its "management" but hopefully the axe falls swiftly and deeply and allows us to play our part in the International Red Cross.

I'm going to write to fwestphal@icrc.org who is Head of Public and Media for the International Red Cross as per: their media contact list and ask them for clarity on this issue.

I would ask anyone else out there to do so.

DeV.

Thirdfox

I guess just like with politics - one has to vote with one's feet to effect change in a large organisation. When enough "little people" beneath don't take it any more then the people up top start worrying about reform, otherwise business as usual.

MSF is a very good suggestion - thank you!

I wrote to their regular email address yesterday - hopefully enough people do.

jmayo

DeVore wrote: »

On a tangent from this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056016355

Turns out the Irish Red Cross sued Google to try and discover the identity of the blogger! (http://www.courts.ie/__80256FFF005DDD92.nsf/0/A31CD40C026BE4D9802577690046C42F?Open Case 96). Google donates 50,000 a year to the International Red Cross and 10,000 a year to the Irish Red Cross.... thats some way to treat them...

More disturbing is that UPC handed over his identity (its not clear if there was a court order or not) and didnt bother to alert Noel that his ID was going to be handed over to a third party!

Is that covered by the DPA??

I knew there were legal moves, but I thought it was only against Google.

Not very smart move seeing that they donate to them, but I guess they wanted to out the blogger as they probably had fair idea it was insider and then they could start discrediting them.

Either way Red Cross comes out smelling of manure.

The fact that UPC shopped his identity is very worrying.
Is there anything implicit in the contract with UPC that ones ID is freely available to third parties or indeed is it in contravention of DPA ?

Perhaps they used same tact that IMRO or record companies were using to get Eircom to release IDs of musci downloaders ?

goose2005

Scofflaw wrote: »

It is also possible that the Irish Red Cross just made a decision to spend money in Ireland. That's not really their mandate, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

The IRC doesn't exist to subsidise Irish manufacturers.

murphaph

I have given a small donation to the red cross direct from my bank account for years now. Feel a bit cheated tbh. Not sure whether or not I should continue (CEOs of charities on 160k is just wrong).

irishh_bob

i recently made a donation to the red cross , was a spur of the moment thing , was driving and an add came on the radio so i picked up the phone and rang up , i didnt know anything about the rampant corruption within the so called charity and feel such a fool for having donated to a crooked org , how is one supposed to know which charity to trust theese days or can we trust any of them ????

Scofflaw

goose2005 wrote: »

The IRC doesn't exist to subsidise Irish manufacturers.

Exactly - it's not their remit. I can't help but wonder whether political pressure from the government - which appoints the chairman and a third of the board, as well as donating a million euro a year - resulted in a "Buy Irish" decision.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sizzler

murphaph wrote: »

I have given a small donation to the red cross direct from my bank account for years now. Feel a bit cheated tbh. Not sure whether or not I should continue (CEOs of charities on 160k is just wrong).

Check out the recent thread in AH on Concern

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67703358

Some people think the CEO's in the likes of Concern / GOAL and their executive peers are well worth their 150k+ salaries, the sense of irony being totally lost on them :eek:

A few stories referencing very liberal use of the charities taxi accounts too...

OhNoYouDidn't

Scofflaw wrote: »

Exactly - it's not their remit. I can't help but wonder whether political pressure from the government - which appoints the chairman and a third of the board, as well as donating a million euro a year - resulted in a "Buy Irish" decision.

cordially,
Scofflaw

It could be a simple logistical decision. The supply in Ireland is guaranteed, it might not be in Pakistan.....

But we digress, carry on with the thread, very interesting reading.

DeVore

I have sat on the board of half a dozen companies, including Boards and my own startup companies. Now I'm a non-exec director and pretty much retired.

I'll chair IRC for the average Irish wage. My CV is not insubstantial. I'm very serious about this though I know there isnt a snowballs chance because I dont know any politicians.

DeV.

Overheal

He sure looks like a whistleblower.... a spy, if you rather.





Missing money and the blankets would have been enough for me without the rest of the rampant corruption from the sound of it. I assume the International Red Cross has no power to intervene or absolve the organization

dory

irishh_bob wrote: »

i recently made a donation to the red cross , was a spur of the moment thing , was driving and an add came on the radio so i picked up the phone and rang up , i didnt know anything about the rampant corruption within the so called charity and feel such a fool for having donated to a crooked org , how is one supposed to know which charity to trust theese days or can we trust any of them ????

I've generally found the smaller ones are safer. There are many small organisations you can support. Just look mycharity.ie for a list.

I just heard the IRC ad on the radio and felt sick. All the crazy incompetents should all be kicked out.

Nijmegen

In Ireland, organisational inertia is almost always the top reason for failures to succeed, in any line of work, with poor management often to blame. Sheer corruption is actually less rampant than we might think, but in degrees it pervades our society, from jobs for the boys and other legal avenues to sheer cronyism and illegal and immoral actions.

The Irish Red Cross seems, if all of this is true, to be just another Irish run, Irish screwed organisation. The halo has well and truly been removed.

DeVore

Willie O'Dea and FF were made aware of "irregularities" 6 months ago, specifically. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0224/redcross.html

This rabbit hole just never stops. I'm waiting to hear about Noel's "disciplinary hearing" before starting something more serious in the campaigning line. I wonder if "irishredcrosswatch.com" is gone

I've sent a mail to the international red cross because I believe they are a decent organisation and its only the Irish section which is fooked.

DeV.

murphaph

Yeah, think I'll just switch my donation to the German Red Cross so it still ends up where it's needed and not lining the pockets of IRC managers.

DeVore

Bock The Robber has personal experience in raising cash for the Irish Red Cross and swears he will never do so again after working with them. Great read, here: http://bocktherobber.com/2010/08/stupidity-of-irish-red-cross

DeV.

Cannibal Ox

DeVore wrote: »

Willie O'Dea and FF were made aware of "irregularities" 6 months ago, specifically. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0224/redcross.html

I know for sure that it has been going on for months, and I think, but I'm not completely sure, that it may have been going on for more then a year. There was a thread on here about it a couple of weeks/months ago, and I think his blog was posted in it.

I think he was absolutely right to do it, but what I do not understand is why he had to do it. Why did no journalist pick up on it? It has been going on for months, there have been comments in the Dail, there were articles and letters in the Irish Time, and his blog has been there for a while. So why exactly have no journalists investigated the Irish Red Cross? Why was it left to an employee? Shouldn't this be what Irish journalists are supposed to do?

If you're dropping your subscription, you should let them know why in an email or phone call. You could send an email to Dochas, but they don't strictly regulate or oversea NGOs, but still, enough emails might get some kind of response. And someone within the NGO community should really respond to it.

Nodin

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

I think he was absolutely right to do it, but what I do not understand is why he had to do it. Why did no journalist pick up on it?

I'd imagine one of our papers keeps any 'spare' staff on call, lest Pippa O'Connor fall off a horse. That, and having to scramble to follow Ronan Keating just means some things don't get priority, I suppose.

walshb

The biggest problem with these charities, and particularly the ones with pictures of the same starving black babies for years and years, is that anyone who dares to ask or enquire as to what are they doing with all the money, and where is it going, and what ****ing use is it doing, is seen/portrayed as
a bad person, a racist or a miserable git. These charities are in a sense, untouchable

BTW, there are some fantastic charities out there, Simon and SVDP being two.

Oscail

Despite the Blogger revealing his identity in recent days it seems Irish Red Cross intend to continue their legal action against Google. No-one knows why this is but it is another example of wasting the public and tax payers money. The legal case against Google should now be dropped but instead Irish Red Cross have stated in the Irish Times that they intend to continue the action...what a mystery. And what a discredited organsiation they have become.

The Minister of Defence, Tony Kileen needs to appoint the new Chairperson ASAP. He has prevaricated and delayed for nearly nine months. Even from watching Prime Time alone the Irish Red Cross needs a new Secretary General, one that is not afraid to appear before the media and justify his actions. Minister Killeen needs to take decisive action and appoint a new Chairperson, with one ability, the capacity to remove dead and dangerous wood, ASAP

DeVore

I believe its because they think there might be other bloggers and that Noel has identified himself to protect them. This is not the case but no one can convince the Irish Red Cross that.... says a lot about the state of paranoia in there.

DeV.

Oscail

Very sad waste of public and tax payer money for Irish Red Cross to go on such a vicious but wild goose chase of a witch hunt. Perhaps they wish to also identify all the people who posted anonymous comments especially the supportive ones. Its the sort of thing a dysfunctional organisation like Irish Red Cross would do or threaten to do in order to dissuade people posting any more comments, especially supportive ones. Unbelievable that the Minister allows this continue when he is legally perfectly entitled to intervene.

TJM

@DeV

On the identification of bloggers point - a significant problem with Irish law is that it makes it too easy for a plaintiff to seek the identity of a user from an ISP.

Although a court order is needed to force an ISP to hand over a user's identity, in practice ISPs don't have any incentive to fight the plaintiff's application. There's also no obligation on the ISP to notify the blogger in advance. If there were, the blogger could seek to anonymously resist the application in court. But since there isn't - and since ISPs generally won't resist - the order ends up being granted by default.

I wrote about this in last week's Sunday Times, in a piece that was written while the IRC case was pending but before Noel revealed his identity on the blog:
http://www.digitalrights.ie/2010/08/29/in-defence-of-online-anonymity/

Overheal

DeVore wrote: »

I believe its because they think there might be other bloggers and that Noel has identified himself to protect them. This is not the case but no one can convince the Irish Red Cross that.... says a lot about the state of paranoia in there.

DeV.

And what pray tell do they have to be paranoid about eh?

LostinBlanch

Overheal wrote: »

And what pray tell do they have to be paranoid about eh?

Yeah, it almost makes you wonder whether they have anything else to hide. You'd hope not, but their reaction and continuing this case would make you wonder.

Nehaxak

Well, maybe when the Icelandic modern media initiative goes into law there we might hopefully see more protection provided to whistle blowers and the like.
Unfortunately until then, in Ireland, people here and not just journalists, bloggers or whistle blowers et all, are at the mercy of our ridiculously restrictive libel laws coupled with our feeble data protection laws.

The IRC are probably looking to find the IP addresses of anyone that posted on the blog, then following up with court order against their ISPs to reveal their identities. Also probably to see if Noel (or others) posted to the blog from within or outside the IRC's buildings, as they may have broken some terms of employment contract in doing so (with either).

Personally, what I would do if I were Noel and if the IRC took serious disciplinary action against him after this would be to write to every government in every country that the IRC works in and lobby for their status to operate in that country to be removed or at least suspended until such a time that they enact the required changes to their organisation and internal structures.
Document everything, record any conversations if need be and transcribe them later on - put it all together in a nice little package along with the changes he thinks should be made and send it all off in the post to the country governments.
The IRC here also being part of a wider worldwide network, he should also write to all developed countries' relevant government departments and lobby them also for action against the IRC as a whole operating in that country (US/UK etc) to further pile on the pressure on the IRC here to change.

Th Americans hate this crap, talk to the right people and you could force change from outside our own country if (as it would seem to be the case) our own government are wholly inadequate to force change themselves.

Embarrass and shame them to change, if that's what it takes.

LostinBlanch

Well it looks like something is coming out of this anyway. The Sindo says that the IRC is appointing an independent accounting firm to investigate the unspent tsunami money that was lying in Tipperary for 3 years.

DeVore

How can it be "independent" if its hired by and paid for by the people it will be investigating? What a load of rubbish.

Also, Ted Noonan has declared that he is "Acting Chair of the Executive Committee".

Where is Tony Lawlor at this time? Has he resigned? Has he been relieved of his position?

This..... stinks.

DeV.

Overheal

DeVore wrote: »

How can it be "independent" if its hired by and paid for by the people it will be investigating? What a load of rubbish.

Mmmmm not always.

I retail floors (carpet, hardwood etc) and when a customer wanted to threaten us with a lawsuit the first thing we did was hire an independent inspector to make his own findings about their claim. He gets paid whether we screwed up the job or not.

Nehaxak

It's different though when it comes to matters of this nature. Money raised from the public for specific humanitarian needs was just left sitting in an account, off the books, for a number of years.

Knowing the ins and outs of a lot of this kind of stuff myself, it would lead me personally to believe that at worst this was intentional with the ultimate outcome of a person or persons withdrawing the money for personal gain at some stage in the future or, at best, total and utter incompetence on behalf of the financial structures in place at the IRC and the lack of accountability or even willingness it seems to have taken the matter seriously until it was made public knowledge.
Either way, the higher management and board of the IRC should ultimately be held to account for this.

In fact, it would be of my opinion after reading a fair bit about it all, that a criminal invatigation by the Garda may even be warranted - it would only require a member of the general public to officially request as such.

It would be better if the member of the public making the request had previously donated to the IRC and even more so if they donated specifically in the past to the Tsunami relief efforts.