Careful Now!...Religion thread.

Arcade Panda

So what do ye believe in? If ye believe in anything?!

jumpguy

What do YOU believe in ArPa?

challengemaster

I believe in Common Sense. Doesn't seem to be all that common at times, though.

QueenOfLeon

I was always wondering if one of these threads would come up! Should be interesting

I'm just meh about the whole religion thing. Not at all religious myself, I don't think theres a man in the sky controlling things, but I wouldn't slag people off for their beliefs. I would still respect older people in their praying/going to mass and all that, I wouldn't interrogate them about things, or push atheism on people, if they want to have faith in something thats their own decision.

KnifeWRENCH

I'm an apathetic agnostic - don't know and don't care if there's a god or not.

Long Term Louth

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I'm an apathetic agnostic - don't know and don't care if there's a god or not.

But never cease talking about the existence/non existence of one?

Pygmalion

Long Term Louth wrote: »

But never cease talking about the existence/non existence of one?

I've been here for just over a year now, and pretty much spend all day refreshing this forum (slight exaggeration, but only slight) and I honestly don't think I've ever seen him post anything on the topic.

I'm sure you'll be more than willing to provide evidence that it's all he talks about though?

Arcade Panda

jumpguy wrote: »

What do YOU believe in ArPa?

Same as QueenOfLeon to be honest. I'm not religious at all. I respect people who do believe in something though.. I wouldn't ever take the piss or make little of them. It's such a personal thing!

I'd love to believe that there's a heaven, purely for the sake of my Gran. I hope she ended up somewhere great!

Bobalicious93

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

This video pretty much sums up my feelings on religion...

illiop

I'm not sure what I believe. I'd say I'm edgeing towards Panentheism but I'm not really sure. I would definitly say that I believe in a god but I don't agree with organized religon; as...someone in "The big bang theory" said "I'm not opposed to the idea of a go but it baffles me why one would take attendance" (or something along those lines).

I do, however, dislike this modern trend of stereotyping anybody who practices a religon as a backwards, bible-bashing, creationist/fundamentalist. It's one of my pet hates.

EDIT: I also think that I believe in reincarnation but I'm not sure (it sound a bit crazy but I like the idea). Love the name of the thread too!

Pigwidgeon

I was brought up Catholic, going to mass every week, confession, communion and confirmation. After my confirmation, my mum left it up to me if I wanted to go to church or not. I don't think I've been apart from funerals, weddings, etc since.

I believe there's "something" out there, but my beliefs would be more in line with general fate and karma.

I really disagree with the majority of the Catholic Church's standpoints. I think they need to adapt their opinions on a lot of issues, and essentially just need to modernise and "get with the times". Especially after an essay I did last year in college on the Church's effect on Irish society, I think the negatives outweigh the positives. I read the majority of the Murphy report and felt physically sick reading it, hearing how many cases there was and how many cover ups of abuse there were too. I know at the moment, until there is serious reformation and several priests are made leave the church, I want nothing to do with that organisation. Also, some of the things Ratzinger has come out with over the last while, are just ridiculous.

My best friend is the opposite of me, she's a practising Catholic. But my general thing, is live and let live. I'm not going to try and change her opinions.

Colm!

I'm agnostic. We'll never know whether or not there is\was a god. So there's no point in arguing. Believe what you want, but I simply believe that this isn't a subject that we'll ever settle.
Live life with kindness and respect to others, if there is a god, you will be rewarded for it, if there is not a god you will have made life on Earth better for others. And a god that would punish you for choosing not to believe in him because of simple lack of proof is a god not worth worshiping.

Long Term Louth

Pygmalion wrote: »

I've been here for just over a year now, and pretty much spend all day refreshing this forum (slight exaggeration, but only slight) and I honestly don't think I've ever seen him post anything on the topic.

I'm sure you'll be more than willing to provide evidence that it's all he talks about though?

Not exacting the comment at the poster directly, merely questioning the apathetic agnostic in general. Sorry to both if this was misrepresented

laurashambles

I'm an atheist, but it's not something I think about too much.

QueenOfLeon

Arcade Panda wrote: »

I'd love to believe that there's a heaven, purely for the sake of my Gran. I hope she ended up somewhere great!

I'm exactly the same. When older people that I knew died, I'd feel really sorry for them that a certain proportion of their lives had been all about religion, and that there may be nothing for them after all that. I especially felt that when my granduncle, a priest, died. He was such a lovely man...extremely deeply religious but he was so good to us and he would give all us kids all his time and more whenever he was around. I've never wished so much that there was something there for him afterwards when he had spent his whole life dedicated to his faith.

challengemaster

kateos2 wrote: »

I really disagree with the majority of the Catholic Church's standpoints. I think they need to adapt their opinions on a lot of issues, and essentially just need to modernise and "get with the times".

How, exactly?

Essentially, any of their viewpoints have come "straight from god" or the pope, the person who supposedly talks to god and reveals gods will. Changing their beliefs to become more modern would be going against the very god they dedicate their lives to. I don't see how they could actually manage to do something like that without completely nullifying the religion.

edit: I've always loved this particular quote on religion

If one person talks to an imaginary friend all the time, and supposedly is spoken to by them, they're deemed insane.
If a whole load of people do the same, it's religion.

almostnever

I'm a hopeful atheist. As in, I don't believe there's a god but I would absolutely love to be proved wrong.

I hate the notion of not being able to be a moral person without religious faith. I may not practise a religion but I try to be the best person I can be and to make the right decisions for me and to help people out whenever I can. I don't think people need to have a god to have a conscience. I'd like to think if there was a god he'd let me into Heaven whether or not I believed in him if I hadn't done anything horrendous in my life/generally was a good person.

I also hate the "everyone who is associated with the Catholic Church is a paedophile, everyone who is a Muslim is a terrorist" mindset. It's intolerance on a really fundamental level and turns my stomach.

Oh, and I think schools should be secular. Society in general, in fact.

Those are my religious views in a nutshell.

Pigwidgeon

challengemaster wrote: »

How, exactly?

Essentially, any of their viewpoints have come "straight from god" or the pope, the person who supposedly talks to god and reveals gods will. Changing their beliefs to become more modern would be going against the very god they dedicate their lives to. I don't see how they could actually manage to do something like that without completely nullifying the religion.

That's a good point. I'll admit, I don't know a huge amount about the fundamentals of their belief system, but some of the outright bans and damnations to hell for things like homosexuality, women priests etc. could be adjusted slightly without overly destroying the religion, yet they will not extradite priests who have been proven guilty of sexual abuse. As recently heard, the pope refused to accept certain priests retirement.

Just reading back over my own post there, you could say I just don't agree with a hell of a lot of the Church's views.

ohthebaby

I'm a Catholic born and bred. I go to Mass every week despite my grumbles, I say the odd prayer here and there, I put Holy Water on my cat at night, etc. I like to think God exists and that Heaven does too. It's a nice, yet perhaps illogical, outlook and things just seem a bit nicer.

I say I am Catholic but I disagree with lots of the Church's opinions on gay marriage and contraception and all that. I know then that I'm probably a massive hypocrite going to Mass when not believing these teachings but I really don't think though that not agreeing with those things should interfere with being a Catholic or not. As in these things really shouldn't be of concern to our religious leaders. I mean, the main teachings of most major religions, Catholicism included, is to love your neighbour and treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. Isn't there enough hatred in the world to try fix rather than wasting energy trying to preventing the celebration of love between two people of the same sex? I totally support the calls for gay marriage and I really don't think this makes me any less religious. Less Catholic maybe but not less God-loving. I think.

Also Creationism is silly. So I don't really know where that leaves me. A pick'n'mix Catholic of sorts, if you will.

Pygmalion

challengemaster wrote: »

How, exactly?

Essentially, any of their viewpoints have come "straight from god" or the pope, the person who supposedly talks to god and reveals gods will. Changing their beliefs to become more modern would be going against the very god they dedicate their lives to. I don't see how they could actually manage to do something like that without completely nullifying the religion.

To be fair they already ignore pretty much everything in the bible, so they're not entirely against ditching out-dated beliefs, they're just far behind the general population.

The bible (mainly the Old Testament) tells you that in certain instances it's morally acceptable (and encouraged by god himself) to rape women, kill children for no reason at all beyond where they live and sacrifice animals to make up for the sin of masturbation.
It took a few hundred more years than it should have but that's all frowned upon in all but the most backwards cultures.

If a church wants to start ignoring more of that awful series of books I'd rather smile and nod along than point out that they're going against the will of some hypothetical god.

QueenOfLeon

Another thing that I used to ask when I was fairly young...with all the religions in the world, Christians who believe in heaven and God, Muslims who believe in Allah and judgement day, Hindus and Buddhists believing in many gods....how can assume that you're the one who is right? Isn't it a bit ridiculous to assume that you're right about something with no proof when millions of other people think something different?

I'd just have images of people suddenly reincarnating and thinking shiiiiit, the Hindus were right! :P

Pygmalion

ohthebaby wrote: »

Also Creationism is silly. So I don't really know where that leaves me. A pick'n'mix Catholic of sorts, if you will.

Actually the last pope thought the same about Creationism IIRC, they say that belief in Evolution (or whatever else) isn't against Catholic dogma if you accept that the conditions under which we evolved were granted by God.

They don't specifically say that Creationism is silly or wrong of course, and there are probably tons in the Vatican who DO believe in it, but I think after the whole middle ages thing they're a bit more willing to compromise on scientific matters :P.

almostnever

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Another thing that I used to ask when I was fairly young...with all the religions in the world, Christians who believe in heaven and God, Muslims who believe in Allah and judgement day, Hindus and Buddhists believing in many gods....how can assume that you're the one who is right? Isn't it a bit ridiculous to assume that you're right about something with no proof when millions of other people think something different?

I'd just have images of people suddenly reincarnating and thinking shiiiiit, the Hindus were right! :P

That kind of reminds me of something Dawkins said (at least, I think it was Dawkins! ) Basically this guy was asking him did he have any evidence that there wasn't a god because he could feel god in his life, and Dawkins replied "but if you have been born in India, you would call that presence one of the various Hindu gods, if you had been born in the Middle East you'd call it Allah." A lot of it really has, it seems, got to do with location. It's funny how people of one religion can so vehemently declare another to be wrong, when neither of them can really prove that they're right and each would object to their beliefs being disregarded by non believers.

I think that's what I'm trying to say. I'm tired. >.<

QueenOfLeon

So wheres the other side of the debate? Come on in!

randylonghorn

challengemaster wrote: »

How, exactly?

Essentially, any of their viewpoints have come "straight from god" or the pope, the person who supposedly talks to god and reveals gods will. Changing their beliefs to become more modern would be going against the very god they dedicate their lives to. I don't see how they could actually manage to do something like that without completely nullifying the religion.

The basic tenets of Christianity are as modern and applicable now as they ever were. The central message of Jesus in the gospels (whether you believe he was the son of god or not) are simple and timeless ... love one another; treat others as you would like to be treated; take especial care of the weak and the old and the children, etc.

It's the baggage of centuries which has been invented by old wizened men in Rome which doesn't take kindly to the modern world, or vice versa. Doctrines have been created based on the prejudices of men, who have twisted and turned the smallest phrase from the old testaments (many written thousands of years before Jesus, by the old wizened men of *their* time) or from the writings of Paul (himself the first of the bitter Roman men) to back up their own prejudices, and then wrapped up in tomes of Latin, and promulgated as God's word.

Jesus never condemned homosexuality or masturbation or women priests, for example. He did, though, protect a prostitute from being stoned, and spent a lot of time complaining about the smug, rich churchmen of his own era.

The son of god or not? I honestly don't know. But his message is still thoroughly modern, if you strip it of all the layers which have been piled on it since by men who are addicted to power and control.

KnifeWRENCH

Long Term Louth wrote: »

Not exacting the comment at the poster directly, merely questioning the apathetic agnostic in general. Sorry to both if this was misrepresented

Well fair enough, but I'm not the apathetic agnostic in general (I have far better things to talk about) so your comment doesn't apply to me. Maybe the only agnostics you know never shut up about religion, but I'm not like that at all!

Pygmalion

randylonghorn wrote: »

Jesus never condemned homosexuality or masturbation

The bible (the non-Jesus parts) did though (some people do argue over translations of the gay bashing admittedly), and not through careful manipulation or selective interpretation, it just comes right out and says it.
It's even more clear about advocating genocide and rape.

So yes, if you believe in the bible as the word of God then you must, as a rule, believe that homosexuality, masturbation and other stuff is forbidden.
On the plus side slaves got a pretty good deal.

Davidius

I don't know if God exists or not as I have no proof either way but considering there's nothing to suggest that he exists I can say it's fairly unlikely.

Konata

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I'm an apathetic agnostic - don't know and don't care if there's a god or not.

Snap!

At the moment, I don't believe in God or religion of any sort really. And I don't really care about the ins and outs of why I don't believe in it. I'm not one of these people who will debate the existence of God or the pros and cons of the Catholic Church or whatever. I just don't believe in it and have no interest in discussing it whatsoever.

jefreywithonef

I believe in space.

kev9100

I don't know if there is a God, no-one really knows, but I'm not too fussed either way.


But what I can't stand about religion is that people actually waste their entire lives praying/worshipping to some deity that may or may not exist. I mean, there is so much more life and so many more important things to do. Why waste it?

ohthebaby

kev9100 wrote: »

But what I can't stand about religion is that people actually waste their entire lives praying/worshipping to some deity that may or may not exist. I mean, there is so much more life and so many more important things to do. Why waste it?

Praying can act as a source of comfort and strength to some people. Say a close relative had died, praying for their salvation may let the prayer feel as if they are doing something to help the dead and give them some class of a purpose. Something like that.

whadabouchasir

kev9100 wrote: »

But what I can't stand about religion is that people actually waste their entire lives praying/worshipping to some deity that may or may not exist. I mean, there is so much more life and so many more important things to do. Why waste it?

But if you believe in it then its not a waste of time.Also I don't think that very many people spend their entire lives praying and if they do then it's probably because they think that prayer and worship of God is the most important thing in the world.

randylonghorn

Pygmalion wrote: »

The bible (the non-Jesus parts) did though (some people do argue over translations of the gay bashing admittedly), and not through careful manipulation or selective interpretation, it just comes right out and says it.
It's even more clear about advocating genocide and rape.

So yes, if you believe in the bible as the word of God then you must, as a rule, believe that homosexuality, masturbation and other stuff is forbidden.
On the plus side slaves got a pretty good deal.

Well, just as an aside, the "problem" with masturbation is based on the story of Onan, which actually has nothing to do with it ... it's the story of a man who refuses to lie with his brother's widow in accordance with old Jewish law. It's the literary flourish of "instead he turned aside and spilled his seed on the ground" which has been used as the basis of the doctrine.

But my basic point is that all those books of the old Testament and indeed the non-gospel were written by men who may have believed they were inspired by god (though sometimes I wonder if they all believed even that). I certainly don't believe they were. All through history men have used god as an excuse for their own prejudices.

I do believe though that Jesus was inspired by *something* ... by god, or just by great personal wisdom and goodness, I honestly don't know.

Noffles

Haha... religion... how many deaths in the "aid" of this....... absolute pile of ****E!!!

kev9100

whadabouchasir wrote: »

But if you believe in it then its not a waste of time.Also I don't think that very many people spend their entire lives praying and if they do then it's probably because they think that prayer and worship of God is the most important thing in the world.

I'm not saying the majority of people who "believe" spend their entire lives praying, but many do shape their entire lives around religion.

Piste

Noffles wrote: »

Haha... religion... how many deaths in the "aid" of this....... absolute pile of ****E!!!

If you can't be respectful and discuss this maturely why bother posting?

highlydebased

I've thought long and hard about religion. I decided to leave it behind probably for good. The amount of false hope it gave me was pathetic, it was genuinely ruining my life. Now I place belief and hope in myself and other things. Dont need no man in the sky for that. I plan on defecting at some stage, maybe not soon, but I'm sure I will, eventually. My mother is the only religious person in the family, though at this stage I think she's realised that I no longer have an interest, I was made go to mass up to 18- I have not been since.

**Timbuk2**

I believe in God, but not necessarily organised religion. I hardly ever go to Mass. There are aspects of the Catholic Church that I don't like - how homosexuals are treated, that condoms should be banned and that only men are allowed into the clergy. Just my opinions though.

I respect anybody's faith, even if it is to not believe in any religion/god. However, I think if everybody in the world followed in the Christian idea of love your neighbour as you love yourself, the world would be a much nicer place to live.

Pygmalion

randylonghorn wrote: »

Well, just as an aside, the "problem" with masturbation is based on the story of Onan, which actually has nothing to do with it ... it's the story of a man who refuses to lie with his brother's widow in accordance with old Jewish law. It's the literary flourish of "instead he turned aside and spilled his seed on the ground" which has been used as the basis of the doctrine.

It's also described as "unclean" (Leviticus I think, that's where a lot of the weird stuff comes from), but tbh so is everything else, and in fairness in the Old Testament if something doesn't merit a death sentence it's pretty much a miracle.

But my basic point is that all those books of the old Testament and indeed the non-gospel were written by men who may have believed they were inspired by god (though sometimes I wonder if they all believed even that). I certainly don't believe they were. All through history men have used god as an excuse for their own prejudices.

And 3 major religions take them as sacred texts.
I'm not arguing for adherence to the text obviously, but there are a lot of people who genuinely look to it for guidance, so explaining that it was written by men and isn't really the word of god won't change that.

The gospels are an exception to the madness thankfully, but most Christian churches hold the less favourable parts as valid too, if not as equal to the Gospels at least as a fallback.

kev9100

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

However, I think if everybody in the world followed in the Christian idea of love your neighbour as you love yourself, the world would be a much nicer place to live.

But that is not a Christian idea. It is basic human instinct to treat people how you would like to be treated and you must certainly do not need to be a Christian to be nice to each other.

randylonghorn

Pygmalion wrote: »

The gospels are an exception to the madness thankfully ...

Which was kind of my point!

Pygmalion

kev9100 wrote: »

But that is not a Christian idea. It is basic human instinct to treat people how you would like to be treated and you must certainly do not need to be a Christian to be nice to each other.

Even out of the major religions Buddhism got there before Christianity (it'd be stupid to say they got there first though, pretty much every civilisation seemed to have some variant).

**Timbuk2**

kev9100 wrote: »

But that is not a Christian idea. It is basic human instinct to treat people how you would like to be treated and you must certainly do not need to be a Christian to be nice to each other.

That's true, I worded my post somewhat ass-ways. What I meant is that people followed the ideas of relgious teaching etc. that the world would be a nicer place. I don't know why I specified Christian and I didn't mean that somebody needs to be religious to follow religious ideas

randylonghorn

kev9100 wrote: »

But that is not a Christian idea.

It's a very Christian idea actually, it's the core of the original Christian message.

If you mean that it's not necessarily confined to Christianity, then you're right, of course. And I agree with Pygmalion that Christianity wasn't the first religion to espouse it.

kev9100 wrote: »

It is basic human instinct to treat people how you would like to be treated ...

Do you honestly believe that? I'm afraid I don't think it is.

kev9100 wrote: »

... you most certainly do not need to be a Christian to be nice to each other.

That's definitely true.

Pygmalion

randylonghorn wrote: »

Which was kind of my point!

My point was just that it doesn't matter when 99% of Christians believe the non-Jesus parts too, or at least claim to/are part of a church that does. :P

kev9100

randylonghorn wrote: »

It's a very Christian idea actually, it's the core of the original Christian message.

What do you mean by the "origianal Christian message"?

randylonghorn wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that? I'm afraid I don't think it is.

I do actually. I may be naive, but I really do believe that humans are naturally inclined to be good to each other and unfortunately, outside factors get in the way.

Meller

I'm an athiest, but I do have a big interest in religion in general. Of course I respect all people and that some are religious - the amount of 'respect' I have for a lot of organised religion and its beliefs, however, is far more questionable. Much of what the major world religions believe seems no more likely or worthy of respect to me than the 'flying spaghetti monster', so I see no reason to treat it any differently - I'm not going to attack anybody or begin a screaming match with them for being a follower of either. Religion certainly doesn't justify bigotry or intolerance, so I feel the same way about people who use religion as their 'excuse' (I'm not saying that it's never a genuine belief, and realise that it often is, but it makes no difference in my eyes and all comes down to the same thing in the end - not being able to think for yourself) for this as I do anybody else who shares similar narrow-minded views.

So: not a fan of religion. I have no problem with religious people - faith is so personal and differs so much depending on the individual anyway - but if I disagree with something, I disagree, and make no special allowances for beliefs just because they stem from religion or are considered sacred by some.

QueenOfLeon

Just have something to add to what I said about respecting other peoples' religions and how they go about them. Most religious stuff "ordered" by the high up religious authorities (the Vatican for example) is fairly harmless, praying, mass, helping the poor, etc. It may be pointless (imo, well the praying bit :P) but its harmless so it doesn't bother me.

When religion interferes with a persons choices in life that literally could mean life or death...that enrages me. I'm talking refusing necessary operations and blood transfusions because the religion (not Christianity, can't remember which ones...) has denoted that this is how the person must live their life. I'm actually dreading ever being confronted with this situation when I (hopefully) end up working in hospitals, as I don't think I could sit back and let some man in the sky, or stack of books, make a decision that is not theirs to make.

Jamie Starr

For a start, I feel trying to understand the still mostly unknown and constantly expanding universe is difficult enough, thinking you know for sure what created it is just ridiculous. It's pointless for me to dwell on it anyway.
I think every interpretation of God we encounter as humans is therefore like a child's drawing of the real thing, and the universe is a bit like a fridge! There can be tons, they're all equally pointless and crude, but they make the fridge a bit more interesting.

I was raised Catholic, went to Mass for quite a long time, was even an altar boy (obviously an ugly one though, I was never abused, damn picky priests!). I'm glad I was made to go though, it made me think about things. If you look at the Bible, there's a simple enough message as far as Jesus goes: try to be friends, be good to people, it doesn't always work out, but hey, you tried. (I imagine the guy who wrote the Old Testament was reading a draft of the new one by his ghost-writer, saying stuff like "Amm..throw in some stuff about violent death..am..splitting temples and....oh being nailed to the cross! Great, let's go to tea!") It was just mucked up by some geeky/hardcore fans, and the modern world still has some big, frightening religion conventions.

The overall reason I don't like religion is it requires you extremely sure about the way things work, and I just don't think that's possible. I find a lot more confidence in uncertainty.

Fad

(This has no real logical flow*, adding bit as I go along - deal with it)

I'm an atheist. At times an overly philosophical atheist, I have a weirdly strong interest in religion (I was toying with studying religion and theology at one stage, it's useless, I know, but I'm interested), so I maintain a level of respect for it. The Catholic church might be an evil and corrupt organisation, but if we'd all be potato farming inbreds if it didn't rescue this country, so it was once a source of good, it just lost its way.

I did religion for the Junior and Leaving Cert (I did horrendously badly in LC religion due to my refusal to learn off essays, so I wasn't studying it purely for points) so in that sense, I'm a fairly informed atheist, it's not just a case of "lol religion lol".

But yeah, basically I believe life has no meaning whatsoever, what you do is of no supernatural consequence, but you only get to live once, so dont be a dick.

And a quote from one of my favourite songs: If there is a hell, I'll see you there.

*lol religion lol >_>