'no kill' shelters?

zyndacyclone

Since this is an idea that isn't familiar to everyone, a definition: a 'no-kill' shelter is an animal shelter where animals are only killed if they are too sick to be treated or too aggressive to be adoptable.

I've recently moved back to Ireland from the USA (where these are more common). I'm interested in learning more about no-kill, and only no-kill, shelters in the greater Dublin area, with a view to volunteering or supporting in other ways.

So far my list is: PAWS

...er...that's it.

Any additions?

ISDW

Dogs Trust, Dogs Aid, alot of rescues in Ireland don't have shelters as such, they are run by volunteers, fostering dogs in their own homes.

mymo

There are lots of places, some small and run from peoples homes, some large ones.
So far as I know only the dog pounds pts dogs, shelters and rescues are a different story.
Also I think PAWS is in Tip not Dublin.

morganafay

I know the CSPCA puts animals down.

And I've heard that the DSPCA will aswell, but I don't know.

seamus

The DSPCA are a no-kill shelter. Only incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals are euthanised.

Sick animals are usually given a chance to survive, provided that they're not suffering massively.

morganafay

seamus wrote: »

The DSPCA are a no-kill shelter. Only incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals are euthanised.

Sorry my mistake.

I was just going by what someone else said.

And saw an ad on the internet for someone giving away a rabbit, in Dublin, and they said they asked the SPCA to take it but they said they'd put it down. But they might have been just saying that, or maybe it wasn't the DSPCA.

The Sweeper

Be careful what you assume about a rescue or shelter until you speak to them yourselves.

The RSPCA in Victoria do a lot of advertising about how they rehabilitate young animals and they ask for funding and sponsorship for such things.

What lots of people don't know is the RSPCA put to sleep any kitten that comes to them weighing under 600g. That's any kitten up to six weeks of age that comes in without its mum. As someone who has done a bit with feral kittens, I can tell you that they can be weaned and viable from 4-5 weeks onwards, and turn into excellent pets, but the RSPCA would put them to sleep.

So if you want to know for definite, call and request a statement from the shelter or organisation you're looking at - you can assume nothing.

TooManyDogs

I was told by someone who was trying to rehome their dog that when they rang the DSPCA about taking their dog they were told that they could leave the dog in but that it would more than likely be pts as they were very full, needless to say they didn't leave the dog in.

I think the problem is what each individual shelter defines as 'no kill'. It can often depend on the amount of time/effort the shelter is prepared to put into very young, very old or very damaged dogs. In my experience the smaller places tend to be more true to the 'no kill' policy.

Qualitymark

seamus wrote: »

The DSPCA are a no-kill shelter. Only incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals are euthanised.

Sick animals are usually given a chance to survive, provided that they're not suffering massively.

This certainly wasn't true a few years back when the officemate of a friend went away on holidays when her dog was missing. She left *five* contact numbers, including her mobile. They apparently texted her, but the text only arrived days after she came home; when she got the text and rang the shelter she discovered that her beloved elderly dog had been found and handed to the shelter, and had been put down the day before.

Victoria.

ASH Animal Rescue

antomagoo

Victoria. wrote: »

ASH Animal Rescue

+1
Even if the dog is considered too aggressive they will keep the dog themselves for the rest of his/her life

seamus

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I was told by someone who was trying to rehome their dog that when they rang the DSPCA about taking their dog they were told that they could leave the dog in but that it would more than likely be pts as they were very full, needless to say they didn't leave the dog in..

Qualitymark wrote: »

This certainly wasn't true a few years back when the officemate of a friend went away on holidays when her dog was missing. She left *five* contact numbers, including her mobile. They apparently texted her, but the text only arrived days after she came home; when she got the text and rang the shelter she discovered that her beloved elderly dog had been found and handed to the shelter, and had been put down the day before.

Friend of a friend stories tbh, with no offence intended. People very often mix up the ISPCA and DSPCA.

I can't vouch for "a few years ago" - from what I remember, until 2003 the DSPCA were in very cramped conditions, operating out of portakabins and prefabs. At least since they've moved to the larger premises, they operate a no-kill policy. But I can't speak for them before that date.

They are huge though and see a lot of animals - I have no doubt that some "controversial" decisions have probably been made, such as a sick animal being PTS when not all of the staff agree that it's necessary, but I imagine the same is true of any shelter with more than 5 staff members.

Orla K

Kildare animal foundation is one

and it's not just dogs and cats they have. They care for anything that isn't human that is either sick or injured

Eibhin

www.dogsindistress.org

They are fantastic. I have one dog from them and am fostering another one. They don't have a premises but foster dogs out to ensure their safety from being put to sleep.

Log onto their website as they have a great fun day out coming up on Sunday 12th September where you will be able to meet the main people who run it and ask about getting involved.

I also have a dog from www.ashanimalrescue.com- another amazing couple, Helena and Remi who run this from their home.

TooManyDogs

seamus wrote: »

Friend of a friend stories tbh, with no offence intended. People very often mix up the ISPCA and DSPCA.

I can't vouch for "a few years ago" - from what I remember, until 2003 the DSPCA were in very cramped conditions, operating out of portakabins and prefabs. At least since they've moved to the larger premises, they operate a no-kill policy. But I can't speak for them before that date.

No offence taken but I was talking to the person who made the phone call to the DSPCA, not ISPCA, and it was only 2 weeks ago! So it's not a friend of a friend of a friend at all....

Whispered

A woman I do a bit of volunteering for has asked me to recommend not handing animals into the DSPCA if not in absolute perfect health as they will be put down if there is any reason to do so.

EGAR

As in regards DSPCA, I was contacted independantly by 2 volunteers there and the mother of a girl who did work experience about a Bull Breed pup there. The pup was due to be pts'd solely due to the fact of being a Bull Breed. I offered to take the dog, she was pts'd regardless. Both volunteers left the DSPCA because of it and the mother took her daughter out of the work experience as she was heart broken.

THAT is nothing new in the world of rescue. Being a Bull Breed is the worst thing that can happen to a dog as very few rescues will help you out. Not exactly the meaning of rescue, is it?

seamus

Well then I'm not going to try and telll everyone that what they've heard is wrong

I suspect that these are decisions being taken by whoever in back rooms and not as general policy. Most of the full-time staff would walk if they knew or thought that healthy animals were being put down; it's simply not what they signed up for. Most of them own RB's, so there's not a biased attitude against bull breeds up there.

Vel

seamus wrote: »

The DSPCA are a no-kill shelter. Only incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals are euthanised.

Sick animals are usually given a chance to survive, provided that they're not suffering massively.

I am a former volunteer with the DSPCA and they do not adhere to their publicly stated policy as you have described above. As a result I could never recommend them to anyone who wants to volunteer at a rescue who only euthanise incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals, as I have seen with my own eyes that this is not the case up there and one of the reasons why I stopped volunteering for them

Stella2010

I've worked with Dogs Aid for ten years - def a no kill shelter

www.dogsaid.ie

sionnaic

ASH in Rathdangan, Co. Wicklow have a strict no-kill policy - and as it's privately run I'd say they're always in need of volunteers. The couple who run it really do give everything to the rescue.

zyndacyclone

sionnaic wrote: »

ASH in Rathdangan, Co. Wicklow have a strict no-kill policy - and as it's privately run I'd say they're always in need of volunteers. The couple who run it really do give everything to the rescue.

Anyone have personal experience of PAWS?

Discodog

With 6500 Pound dogs being killed last year the idea of "no kill" needs to be put in perspective. Say I have a rescue (I don't) & I have a no kill policy. If I take in a dog that will be very difficult or impossible to rehome I permanently fill a kennel that could be used for rehoming.

So yes I am saving one dog but if that dog occupies a long term space then it may reduce the number of dogs that I could take from the Pound - so saving this dog may inadvertently kill more dogs.

People sometimes criticise the rescues that have a selection policy. The reason they do this is to only take dogs that they know that they can rehome thereby clearing a space for the next dog.

Say a rescue rehomes a dog in an average of 2 months (I have no idea of the real figure) then one kennel space could "save" 6 dogs in a year. If a dog occupies that space long term like 5 years, this could mean that 30 more dogs could of been saved.

boxerly

seamus wrote: »

The DSPCA are a no-kill shelter. Only incurably sick or extremely aggressive animals are euthanised.

Sick animals are usually given a chance to survive, provided that they're not suffering massively.

Have to disagree:) they do and I know this personally x

TooManyDogs

Discodog wrote: »

With 6500 Pound dogs being killed last year the idea of "no kill" needs to be put in perspective. Say I have a rescue (I don't) & I have a no kill policy. If I take in a dog that will be very difficult or impossible to rehome I permanently fill a kennel that could be used for rehoming.

Say a rescue rehomes a dog in an average of 2 months (I have no idea of the real figure) then one kennel space could "save" 6 dogs in a year. If a dog occupies that space long term like 5 years, this could mean that 30 more dogs could of been saved.

That's fair enough, and some rescues do choose to be a rehoming centre rather than a sanctuary but the problem I have (and I think some of the other posters) is when a rescue states they are 'no kill' but actually do put healthy dogs down because they're old, or have minor behaviour problems or aren't being adopted quickly enough. Don't state yourself as 'no kill' if your policy is to give dogs a certain lenght of time to get a new home or else they'll be pts.

Discodog

Another aspect that has to be taken into account is quality of life. Many people believe that being stuck in a kennel must be a short term measure & is not a suitable or fair long term home. Rescues should never be zoo's for dogs.

If rescues operate an emergency, help all policy, then it would be impossible to be no kill. You can't have an SPCA saying that it can't help in an emergency because it is full. When our PTS numbers are down to the level of other countries then we can try to save every dog.

I agree that shelters that kill should be open about their policy but it is so easy for people to think about the dog that is going to be put down & ignore the others that will die because of a lack of rescue space. The focus has to be on rehoming. Because a rescue kills some dogs it may not make it a bad rescue. If as a result they rehome more dogs then they will of saved far more dogs than they will of killed.

wolfpawnat

morganafay wrote: »

I know the CSPCA puts animals down.

They do, there are two places I know in Cork that do not put ANY healthy animal to sleep.

Animal Care Society

and


Glansillagh Animal Rescue Centre

ButtersSuki

A Dog's Life
http://www.adogslife.ie/

And

Westie Rescue
http://www.westierescue.ie/

I help out both when I can and can vouch for both.

seamus

boxerly wrote: »

Have to disagree:) they do and I know this personally x

Well my opinion has changed in the last two months since I put up that post.

The DSPCA can't strictly be called a "no-kill" shelter. They aim towards a no-kill policy, but there are certain select circumstances where they have (and will) euthanise an animal which is not terminally ill, but cannot be fostered or sheltered in order to recuperate.

The quality of the staff on the ground there are few and far between. Some of them have been there donkey's years and basically hate other human beings. So if you ring them up, the quality of the responses you will receive can vary - some staff will be straight down the line with you, others will trot out threats like, "We'll put your dog down if you surrender it to us" in order to discourage people from surrendering the dog, even though it would never be put down.
I think even the older staff's attitudes to the policy can vary - those in their 50's and 60's might consider putting down an elderly (but otherwise healthy) dog to be in the "no-kill" spirit, but the younger staff wouldn't.

Their major problem is that they expanded very quickly and I think they still have to get to grips with building a business and a proper process-based structure. This is why on a given day, one animal might be treated differently to an identical animal the next day, depending on the mood of the staff who are in, or indeed depending on which members of staff are in.

Smaller rescues don't really have the same problem because in generall all of the staff are on, all of the time and can agree actions between themselves.

blondie7

All these people who say the DSPCA are not a no kill shelter then why did they spend so much money and time trying to save the kitten i adopted out of there last year. My kitten had been in a terrible accident and was brought into the DSPCA with his tail and leg hanging off. Why did they amputate his tail and put stints in his leg and nurse him back to health when he had cat flu if they put animals to sleep? Surley they wouldnt have bothered trying to save him at all! All of you out there are talking about friends of yours not you personally. The DSPCA do fantastic work in the Dublin area and there all very friendly people down there. Unlike other rescues i have been in contact with, even a certain one that doesnt even get back to people about adopting a pet!

Discodog

The following SPCA's/ISPCA operate dog pounds so they cannot have a no kill policy.

Carlow
Cork City
Donegal
Kildare
Kilkenny
Laois
Offaly
Wicklow

Already the idea is emerging that we should support no kill shelters above those that kill which is probably why they are not open about it. It is so easy for emotion to actually end up killing more dogs.

TooManyDogs

blondie7 wrote: »

All these people who say the DSPCA are not a no kill shelter then why did they spend so much money and time trying to save the kitten i adopted out of there last year.

No one is saying the DSPCA don't do good work, they're simply saying that it's not correct of them to state they are a 'no kill' shelter when in fact they do put down healthy animals. There are many different rescues/sanctuaries/rehoming centre around the country who have different policies. That's absolutely fine, each organisation makes a choice about what way they think is the best to help animals in need but they need to be more transparent about their policies.

It seems like every group around the country is saying they're 'no kill' but when you question it then it's a case that they're 'no kill' except for....... So what's happening is the places that are genuinely no kill aren't believed anymore, people assume that because so many other groups do pts healthy animals despite being 'no kill' that they must also do so

boxerly

blondie7 wrote: »

All these people who say the DSPCA are not a no kill shelter then why did they spend so much money and time trying to save the kitten i adopted out of there last year. My kitten had been in a terrible accident and was brought into the DSPCA with his tail and leg hanging off. Why did they amputate his tail and put stints in his leg and nurse him back to health when he had cat flu if they put animals to sleep? Surley they wouldnt have bothered trying to save him at all! All of you out there are talking about friends of yours not you personally. The DSPCA do fantastic work in the Dublin area and there all very friendly people down there. Unlike other rescues i have been in contact with, even a certain one that doesnt even get back to people about adopting a pet!

Why did they tell someone a few weeks ago to call "pest control" about 2 tiny little kittens in a factory ???I called them about 4 kittens in a back garden,they said if ye can bring them in but if we cant tame them they will be pts????? they were 6 weeks old.If they cant tame a 6 week old kitten there is something seriously wrong.

seamus

boxerly wrote: »

Why did they tell someone a few weeks ago to call "pest control" about 2 tiny little kittens in a factory ???I called them about 4 kittens in a back garden,they said if ye can bring them in but if we cant tame them they will be pts????? they were 6 weeks old.If they cant tame a 6 week old kitten there is something seriously wrong.

As I mention above, quality of the staff (particularly those answering the public phones) can be haphazard.

They tend to be quite cynical, and will often tell people to deal with things themselves. In relation to the phone call you made, you were basically being told to capture them yourself and discouraged from brining the cats in if it could be helped. They wouldn't be pts - you were told that in order to encourage you to look after the cats yourself. They wouldn't actually be pts if you brought them in.

The problem here is that when people want to surrender their animals, 90% of the time they're not prepared to pay to do so. They expect the DSPCA to take the animal and rehome it for free. So when the person gets told they'll have to pay to surrender the animal, they ring up a few hours later claiming to have "found" a stray animal and wanting to bring it up to the DSPCA.

Unfortunately the cynics on the public phone now treat everyone with suspicion and so you'll be told something to try and encourage you to look after the animals yourself. If someone is trying to dump their pet on the DSPCA, then the threat of PTS will make them think twice. If it's a genuine stray, most people will bring it up to the shelter regardless.

It's poor service and it's a stupid thing to do because then the DSPCA gets a bad rep, absolutely. But it's in no way indicative of the actual policies at the shelter. From seeing various discussions online, the public phone seems to be one of the major failings up there because some of the staff who man the phone simply should never be allowed to speak to the public, ever.

boxerly

They arent my cats:)Ive 3 kids,4 dogs,a cat and I mind dogs.I dont have time to go looking after kittens aswell:)

seamus

boxerly wrote: »

They arent my cats:)

Oh I know. But try telling that to someone when more than half of the "strays" brought to the shelter are actually unwanted litters or pets. When you say, "I've found 2 kittens in my back garden", they hear, "My cat has given birth and I can't be arsed finding homes for them".

As I say, it's entirely the wrong attitude to have, and only some staff members have this attitude; it's luck of the draw who answers the phone.

blondie7

boxerly wrote: »

Why did they tell someone a few weeks ago to call "pest control" about 2 tiny little kittens in a factory ???I called them about 4 kittens in a back garden,they said if ye can bring them in but if we cant tame them they will be pts????? they were 6 weeks old.If they cant tame a 6 week old kitten there is something seriously wrong.

How do you no the kittens were six weeks old? Was the mother with the kittens? Were they sitting in your back garden for six weeks??

boxerly

seamus wrote: »

Oh I know. But try telling that to someone when more than half of the "strays" brought to the shelter are actually unwanted litters or pets. When you say, "I've found 2 kittens in my back garden", they hear, "My cat has given birth and I can't be arsed finding homes for them".

As I say, it's entirely the wrong attitude to have, and only some staff members have this attitude; it's luck of the draw who answers the phone.

Thats so true I know :)I also rang about a month ago about a dog I saw being punched my its "owner" they said call the guards?I rang KSPCA and spoke to a lovely lady who answered the phone and did the call outs.She called to the owner the next day:)I actually passed him last night and he was being nice to the dog:)but he did hang his head thik he recognised me because I had a right go at him when he punched the poor dog around

Discodog

boxerly wrote: »

I also rang about a month ago about a dog I saw being punched my its "owner" they said call the guards?

Neither the ISPCA or local SPCA's have any authority to act. All they can do is advise. If anyone witnesses animal cruelty the correct people to call are the Guards. Animal Law is the same as any other criminal law. If the Guards refuse to act then make a formal complaint.

The RSPCA get £36 million in public donations every year. If the Irish public were to support the ISPCA to the same degree they would get €3 million per year. This would provide for a proper national service with a network of inspectors & shelters.

boxerly

blondie7 wrote: »

How do you no the kittens were six weeks old? Was the mother with the kittens? Were they sitting in your back garden for six weeks??

First of all I know they were about 6 weeks old because they were in my sisters neighbours garden.I saw the kittens myself,they were with the mammy who is an outdoor cat who obviously wasnt spayed.And secondly there wouldnt be a stray in my garden because I would have brought them in as I have done in the past !!You seem to be getting very defensive ??do you work for them?


Just to add,blondie all my pets are spayed and neautered !

Graces7

Leitrim Animal Welfare..

I think it is Discodog who has the set of tables to hand where the killing of dogs is featured? Dave is the Dog Warden for Leitrim and they have a fine record.

http://www.leitrimanimals.com/

Whispered

Blondie7 you seem to have had 1 experience with them. And lucky you, it was a good one.

Personally I've dealt with them on at least 4 occasions (all to do with rescues before you take it on yourself to question me as you did boxerly earlier) and would never ever deal with them again. Some of their staff are a disgrace.

Toulouse

None of my dealings with them have been good either. When I rang to tell them that a beautiful young jack russell chipped to them was in the pound they wouldn't take it back. Said that they didn't take back dogs which I thought was lovely. Leave the smaller, less well known and well funded rescues to clean up their mess. Thankfully there was a rescue dealing with the pound or else the dog would have been pts.

It hasn't been the only dog in that was rehomed by them either and I'm sure it won't be the last.

blondie7

Whispered wrote: »

Blondie7 you seem to have had 1 experience with them. And lucky you, it was a good one.

Personally I've dealt with them on at least 4 occasions (all to do with rescues before you take it on yourself to question me as you did boxerly earlier) and would never ever deal with them again. Some of their staff are a disgrace.

No your assuming i only dealt with them the once, ive actually dealt with them several times and have never had any problems as had anyone else i know! And yes i did question boxerly before not that i have to answer to you!

Whispered

blondie7 wrote: »

No your assuming i only dealt with them the once, ive actually dealt with them several times and have never had any problems as had anyone else i know! And yes i did question boxerly before not that i have to answer to you!

But you expect another poster to answer to you? Well that seems fair......:D

You seem very very defensive.

Lucky you, a few good experiences. Seems like people who can say that are few and far between.

Can I ask what dealing you had with them?

Some of mine - a box of 14 kittens left on my doorstep. I brought them in (as I already had a litter of pups and could not cope with both), with a donation and was told "not to be telling lies" by the woman I met. And told that my donation was not enough so the kittens would be pts when I left. I left with the kittens (who went to a volunteer rescue) and when I asked for my donation back the cheeky woman asked me was I really going to "take food from the animals mouth" :eek:

Another one, I rang about a feral cat and was told that I must have been feeding it so it was my problem.

I picked up a dog the day before I went on holiday and asked them to take it - along with a donation. And was told to put it into the pound. I said that if it wasn't homed by the time I got back I'd take him back out and home him myself. No way would they help. I would have paid for him to go into our local kennels but obviously they wouldn't be able to accept him.

Friends have had similar experiences such as being told that a pregnant feral cat is "none of her business", and another being asked why she is "pretending" the dog isn't hers.

They are an absolute disgrace to "animal rescues" and give other rescues a bad name, people can so easily confuse them with other rescues when they don't have much knowledge of it.

Like said earlier - they need to watch who they allow deal with people as they only put people off.

boxerly

blondie7 wrote: »

No your assuming i only dealt with them the once, ive actually dealt with them several times and have never had any problems as had anyone else i know! And yes i did question boxerly before not that i have to answer to you!

and who are you to question me???? you dont know me or what I do.Who chased a pom around in the winter for 2 weeks trying to get him..dspca?? NO ME.Who went to tesco 3 times a day trying to get an old starving dog??dspca?? NO ME with a newborn baby in a buggy and 2 small kids on the back.Who went into horses with ropes tied around their necks to cut them off?dspca????? ye know the answer.So before you feel the need to question me again stop and think !!!!!The smaller rescues in this country do so much work with so little money while bigger places with more money more space etc do less !

Whispered

boxerly wrote: »

The smaller rescues in this country do so much work with so little money while bigger places with more money more space etc do less !

This is true - most of the smaller places have people available all the time. They never say no, even if it means taking yet another dog into their home before finding a foster for them.

Their lives revolve around their work and for them to be assumed to be the same as the dspca is a shame.

DSPCA may do good work and I would always encourgae people to rehome as opposed to buy, but I wouldn't donate to them, and I wouldn't advise anybody to go to them for help. Unfortunately the smaller rescues with much less funding usually end up picking up where the dspca refuse to.

Discodog

Organisations have policies but people have hearts. The rescues will always try to help because their hearts rule their heads.

Any organisation involved in Animal Welfare will come under criticism especially in a country with so much animal neglect & cruelty as there will be high expectations that can not be achieved. Personally I think that whole national ISPCA & regional SPCA system is wrong. We need a national service with consistent policies & people.

blondie7

boxerly i didnt question you i questioned your post! I asked you how did you no the kittens were 6 weeks old? I am not asking you to sing your own praises there and by god have you :rolleyes: if your that worried about neglect on animals how about volunteering with one of the many organisations. You all had bad experiences with the DSPCA i have never had one nor has anybody i no had any. I found a small kitten in work not so long ago and rang Cats aid to see would they take it but oh no guess what it wasnt there problem and they told me to leave it back where i got it. Even though the poor little thing was malnourished and covered in diesel. Rang the DSPCA and they told me to bring him in straight away (and there was no mention of him being pts) I did however decide to keep him though (he was to cute to let go!)

Toulouse

Blondie7, Boxerly volunteers for plenty of rescues. Her place is always offered as a safe haven if an animal needs it and she's picked up countless waifs and strays along the way. All that and raising a young family. She doesn't need to do more than she already does. She makes a difference, so lay off her.

boxerly

blondie7 wrote: »

boxerly i didnt question you i questioned your post! I asked you how did you no the kittens were 6 weeks old? I am not asking you to sing your own praises there and by god have you :rolleyes: if your that worried about neglect on animals how about volunteering with one of the many organisations. You all had bad experiences with the DSPCA i have never had one nor has anybody i no had any. I found a small kitten in work not so long ago and rang Cats aid to see would they take it but oh no guess what it wasnt there problem and they told me to leave it back where i got it. Even though the poor little thing was malnourished and covered in diesel. Rang the DSPCA and they told me to bring him in straight away (and there was no mention of him being pts) I did however decide to keep him though (he was to cute to let go!)

Oh I do plenty,and I wasnt singing my own praises,I was telling you that after no help from the dspca I had to do it myself,that is all.:)