A rethink in my attitude

Guy:Incognito

I really dont see how people can say it's not a speeding issue. Is it really just a comabtative attitude in response to authorities telling people to slow down or what?

The OP clearly said the guy was speeding. Theres a big difference between a blowout at 40mph and one at 70-75. In this case that difference has resulted in a huge loss for a lot of people. He might well have been killed ta 40 but chances are a lot better that he wouldnt. The faster your going the harder it's going to be to correct a problem or react to any emergency.

These things happen all too often under similar circumstances and beign pig headed and refusing to spow down because the evil government/Gaybo etc tells you too is not going to change that.

ottostreet

Stekelly wrote: »

I really dont see how people can say it's not a speeding issue. Is it really just a comabtative attitude in response to authorities telling people to slow down or what?

The OP clearly said the guy was speeding. Theres a big difference between a blowout at 40mph and one at 70-75. In this case that difference has resulted in a huge loss for a lot of people. He might well have been killed ta 40 but chances are a lot better that he wouldnt. The faster your going the harder it's going to be to correct a problem or react to any emergency.

These things happen all too often under similar circumstances and beign pig headed and refusing to spow down because the evil government/Gaybo etc tells you too is not going to change that.

Speaking from my own perspective, it has very little to do with government/Gaybo. Yes, the message 'slow down' is somewhat condescending in its message, but the real reason that I disregarded road safety messages is...it doesnt happen to me. It happens to strangers in donegal.

There is no way of getting people to slow down. I'm inclined to agree...why should they? We're all safe and secure in our cars...theyre our friends. This road...sure I know it well. Tonight, driving home from his burial, I had to force myself to press the pedal to go past 50mph. Every single vibration in the car had me gripping the steering wheel tighter. I pulled over three times to check my left front tire because I was convinced it was losing pressure (it wasn't).

The fact is....there is no fear. On my part, and with all the lads my age who were at the burial who I would know, there is a fear there now that just did not exist prior to Sunday morning. And I know that poor Shane struggled to keep control, and he would have seen what was coming, and it was going to hurt. I'm not saying slow down always, or having a holier-than-thou attitude towards it. All I know is that the probability of Shane surviving that crash would have been far higher if he had not been speeding, even though speeding itself wasnt the reason he crashed. And that fact is what has terrified me.

Tea 1000

ottostreet wrote: »

Speaking from my own perspective, it has very little to do with government/Gaybo. Yes, the message 'slow down' is somewhat condescending in its message, but the real reason that I disregarded road safety messages is...it doesnt happen to me. It happens to strangers in donegal.

There is no way of getting people to slow down. I'm inclined to agree...why should they? We're all safe and secure in our cars...theyre our friends. This road...sure I know it well. Tonight, driving home from his burial, I had to force myself to press the pedal to go past 50mph. Every single vibration in the car had me gripping the steering wheel tighter. I pulled over three times to check my left front tire because I was convinced it was losing pressure (it wasn't).

The fact is....there is no fear. On my part, and with all the lads my age who were at the burial who I would know, there is a fear there now that just did not exist prior to Sunday morning. And I know that poor Shane struggled to keep control, and he would have seen what was coming, and it was going to hurt. I'm not saying slow down always, or having a holier-than-thou attitude towards it. All I know is that the probability of Shane surviving that crash would have been far higher if he had not been speeding, even though speeding itself wasnt the reason he crashed. And that fact is what has terrified me.

That's the key there. No fear, or sense of self destruction, complacency behind the wheel. Speed is what those other nut-cases do... not me, I only do 80 when it's safe... Admittedly, we all have it. I know I do.
But at the end of the day, if everyone did slow down that 5mph or 10mph, then the chances of surviving that odd-ball freak external attribute that causes the accident are drastically increased.
Speed isn't the cause of all the accidents, but reduced speed actually is one of the most effective solutions! There'll always be external errors, they can be reduced by checking tyres, educating dumb other drivers, filling dangerous pot-holes, whatever. But reduced speed increases your chances of coping with one of those external factors.
My sympathies on your family's loss Otto. Fair play for posting.

tom traubert

To Ottostreet.

Much respect to you for choosing to post and create this thread on what is a numbing day for you and your extended family. The manner in which you posted leaves me somewhat at a loss for words to be honest.

I believe you may have done a great service for a lot of people who read through your thoughts tonight and in the coming days, I certainly hope so!

Another poster said something along the lines of ...... but speeding isn't the problem and telling people to slow down isn't the solution.

To that person I'd say two things:

If you can't acknowledge that speed is a factor in many deaths due to road collisions then you're simply not worth engaging with.

If you think it's acceptable to wade in with a vacuous two liner such as the one you posted after the opening post then you're simply not worth engaging with.

Voodoomelon

Sorry to hear of your loss OP, my sympathies.

Whilst in this case a lower speed may have resulted in no loss of life, I still don't believe not conforming to the posted speed limit is dangerous. In a lot of cases, the posted speed limit is completely unsuited to the road that is being driven on, whether it be too high or too low.

Thats why to me it is nonsensical to just follow whatever limit you see. Its all about doing the appropriate speed for the road you are on, and the present conditions. You could say that a slower speed might have saved your friend, but could also have killed his passenger, you just don't know.

Any whilst my heart goes out to you and yours (and everytime I read a story like this it does make me a bit more aware on the road afterwards), it doesn't change my attitude towards speed (excessive speed yes, but not "speeding" as such).

Sorry to hear about this, very sad situation. A friend of mine died the autumn after we did the leaving back in 1999. I see his brother occasionally who is still grieving. Still think of him myself quite a lot. My Dad's brother was killed in 1975 in a fire (he was a fireman), Dad I think, never quite got over it. Time helps but you'll always miss your friend, missing lost ones can be a comfort in a strange way. Do all you can to ensure you don't go the same way, I've never seen a post thanked as much as yours.

Tea drinker

ottostreet wrote: »

If you can at all, even just 5mph, just slow down a tiny bit. It could be what prevents you from becoming the latest headline.

All I can do is agree with you, 5 mph can make the difference.

Very sorry for your loss, it must be very difficult for the family

patrickc

Ottostreet, my sympathies are with you and your family. I know the spot well where it happened. R.I.P

something in the last year has made me slow down alot, but this also hits home, could of easy been me, or any of my Carlow friends etc.

Thanks for your post

djimi

Otto Im very sorry for your loss man.

I have to say that is an incredible post. Reading that has had more effect on me than any RSA campaign Ive ever seen. I cant even begin to imagine what you are going thru at this time, and your post has made me stop and think about how I drive. I dont speed a lot, but it only takes one time, one incident, and perhaps your words will come to my mind the next time I find myself going a little too fast. I hope that your post has the same effect on everyone who reads it.

My thoughts are with you and your family.

dill park

Otto i know ur not looking for sympathy but sorry for ur loss. Your post has really made me think about how fast i drive nd how often i change my tyres. I dont speed much anyway but it has definitely made me think about how i drive on motorways nd open(safe) roads.

unkel

What a sad loss of such a young life. I can't imagine the pain all who knew him are suffering right now, especially his parents

ottostreet wrote: »

Since I started driving four years ago, I've had a somewhat relaxed attitude towards speed. I've been pulled over countless times, have had a good few penalty points, and have crashed cars.

Not having a go at you at all, ottostreet and your composure in your original post is amazing. But above is what's the problem with young (both inexperienced and poorly educated thus pretty incompetent) drivers in this country. The "I did some stupid things when I was young" culture is killing people here who will never even make it to be able to say those words

Mint Sauce

Sorry for your loss ottostreet, and thank you for your post.

Brendog

Can one of the Administrators save OP's post please?


That post alone hit me harder than any road safety ad.
It serious dropped my jaw.





Thank you for this valuable insight
and also sorry for your loss. Take care bro...

Muas Tenek

Brendog wrote: »

Can one of the Administrators save OP's post please?


That post alone hit me harder than any road safety ad.
It serious dropped my jaw.





Thank you for this valuable insight
and also sorry for your loss. Take care bro...

I would suggest that this post should be stickyed for a while to remind us every day to take care of ourselves out there.
If we all take a little more time to think of this then the OP's friends passing will have done some good.

Sincerest sympathies on your loss.

af_thefragile

Muas Tenek wrote: »

I would suggest that this post should be stickyed for a while to remind us every day to take care of ourselves out there.
If we all take a little more time to think of this then the OP's friends passing will have done some good.

Sincerest sympathies on your loss.

I guess yeah.

This would make me think twice before speeding... Though I don't usually speed, but it'll make me be extra careful. Especially about looking after my car tyres and such as well as being careful on the roads...

Gary ITR

We have seen figures that prove stickies are not read or are missed and for that reason alone we'll leave it unstuck for now.


Ottostreet that is a heartbreaking post and fair play for making it. Thoughts are with you and your family

SV

As some may be aware here, myself and ottostreet are close friend in real life.
As most should be aware here my attitude to driving and speeding has always been..wreckless at best.

We grew up with this attitude to driving, that it was all grand to drive however we wanted as long as there was noone else around. We got lucky to get away without even an injury and we didn't even realise how lucky until this happened..it has stopped my in my tracks.



This tragic event has made me think in a way that no television advert ever could, that no Garda ever could, that no stern words from the parents ever could.
I'm out at ottostreets house now and for the first time, since I started driving, I drove out here at and below the speed limit. The road was completely empty.
Not because I believe the speed limits are there for a reason but because I drove at the speeds at which I know I could control the car under..This has removed any delusions I had about how things would happen should I lose control.

The fact is you don't know when something will happen and you don't know how you will react if it ever does..My driving now has just increased my chances of keeping the car under control..that's all it has done but it's all that can be done short of refusing to drive.


I don't know how to word my thoughts properly on this subject really without going into details of how it happened and out of respect for ottostreet I won't be doing that.
however..even if you feel that you're not driving dangerously..just think about some common problems that could happen with your own car and think, could you control it right now at this speed if that happened? if the answer is no, then slow down..because you never know if it will happen.



R.I.P Shane, I never got to know you but you've changed me for the better.

psycho-hope

Otto, my thoughts are with you, your family and your cousins friends tonight, if your post here today makes just one person stop and think about there speed then your cousins death wont have been in vain.

R.I.P

Slidey

Excellently composed post OP and my thoughts are with you and your family.

My friend used to be a bit of a loon on the road but luckily got away with it. Then he started to drive for a tow-truck crowd that has the Garda contract. He said nothing has ever affected him more than lifting car after car (and motorbikes) after they were involved in fatal accidents.

Davidth88

Otto,

My sympathies to you ,your family and friends . A great , well written and very thought provoking post.

Thanks for taking the time.

Esel

I can only imagine the grief that Shane's family, relations and friends are going through.

So far, about 160 users have thanked the original post. That's not counting the probably much greater number of unregistered readers, as well as the other users who may not have thought to thank the post. So, it has made a huge impression. Otto, thank you for that. You have made a great many people reconsider their own attitude to driving.

You could consider writing a letter to local and national newspapers expressing the same thoughts and feelings, and thereby get your very relevant message across to probably hundreds of thousands of readers. Parents would bring it to the attention of their young sons and daughters, who could not fail to be affected and influenced by it as we have here. There might even be some points made in this thread that you could incorporate into such a letter for maximum effect.

How many times have we heard the news of fatal road accidents without giving that news only a passing thought? That's human nature. However, you have brought it home to us by making it personal, and made us reflect on things that otherwise we would not have thought about.

Even the thought of a blowout is terrifying - but when is the last time any of us has actually had that thought? Some posters have mentioned their own worries about their tyres, and their intention to address any issues they may have regarding them. If we each of us resolved to check our tyre pressures on a weekly basis (or even every time we refuel), and while doing so give our tyres a visual inspection, it is possible that we could prevent another disaster like this. Obviously, one cannot thoroughly check the condition of a tyre in this manner, but it is surely a lot better than doing nothing.

We all have varying levels of experience and skill, but hopefully we are also in continuous learning mode. I would like to take this opportunity to recommend, to everyone who does not already have a copy, the book titled Roadcraft. It is the driving manual of the UK police forces (there is also a motorcycle version). This book basically describes a system of driving, and contains an incredible amount of excellent advice about every aspect of driving. It is not expensive to buy, and is worth its weight in gold, and then some.

Otto, thanks again for starting this thread. Only good can come of it. You have caused me to rethink my attitude.

The Big Red Button

I have to say, this post affected me a lot.

I'm a careful driver, but I have to admit that I do tend to break the speed limits pretty much any time I'm on the road ... not by a huge amount at all, but still. When I'm driving fast, I have the radio off, no chatting, no distractions, I focus 100% on what I'm doing.

What you said made me realise that that won't do me a whole lot of good at all if I get in trouble because of a blowout, or because of other factors outside my control.

It's what you said about him trying to regain control for up to ten seconds before crashing that really got me. God. What a terrifying position to be in.

Your post will definitely be on my mind next time I get behind the wheel. Thank you.

E39MSport

That could easily have been multiple fatalities.

Why does it take this level of tragedy to make people cop on?

-Chris-

moonshadow wrote: »

if this is not post of the day then it should be post of the month

furtzy

Yet more carnage

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/three-teens-killed-in-kerry-crash-470752.html

r3nu4l

ottostreet, my heart goes out to you, your family and all of Shane's friends. That's horrible. Your post is definitely the best post I've read on this site. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

EDIT: SV, thanks for sharing that too!

Michael 09

I think that post has had an impact on us all, brilliantly written Otto well done. You may well have just made a difference.

Sorry for your loss

cpoh1

Ottostreet - my sincerest condolenses to both you and your family in what must be a really tough time. Ive been there myself.

One thing that hasnt been mentioned and is always in the back of my mind when i see pictures of road fatalities in the paper is the size and type of car involved. Ive no idea what car your unfortunate cousin was driving otto, but a lot of the time a larger car with more safety features can make all the difference in situations like these and is just as important a factor as speed.

There are far to many people driving cars like 1.2L puntos way beyond the limits of the car on country roads. Suspension, brakes, safety features (airbags, abs) and of course a larger shell around you can make all the difference in circumstances like where your cousin was so unfortunate.

I was overtaken on a country road recently in a young lass in a 1.3L starlet at over 110kph. When we eventually ended up at a roundabout a few clicks down the road i was gobsmacked at how small and inappropriately built that car was for that type of speed. 13" pushbike tyres, rear drum discs (230mm front discs), no airbags, a tiny shell of a car. I would prefer to be in my skyline in a blowout situation at 70mph that that starlet at 40mph. I wondered to myself "does that person even know the limitations of her car?" What happens if she needs to stop in a hurry? I dont thinka lot of Irish people do. When I talk about inappropriate speed the car aswell as the road is a critical factor.

When my little one is old enough to drive she wont be in a small hatch with small engine for her own safety, yet this is precisely the culture in Ireland prevalent today. Small, slow, safe?

Just on the subject of tyre blowouts, the condition of the tyre is only one factor. Blowouts predominantly come from the road surface (bad potholes etc.) and shrapnel on the road itself. Combine this with a poor surface post blowout and/or bend in the road and you are in trouble. For example ive had a blowout at 85+mph clear stretch on the motorway without incident.

I would advise people to learn the limits of their car. Find an empty industrial estate on a damp/wet day and do a few emergency stops. Repeat on a dry day for comparison. Check the limits of your car when braking on a tight corner simulating an emergency stop on a back road (in a wide open empty parking area). You would be amazed how limited your car is in situations like these. As others have said keep an eye on your tyres, brakes (that includes fluid too). Dont skimp on the most important parts of the car and dont just think "sure ill leave it until my nest paycheck". It could make all the difference.

no1beemerfan

Its sure makes you think alright, in July 2009 I came upon an accidient as it was happening. A car hit a cow which jumped a hedge and it caused the car to roll and in which the driver was killed. Unfortunately the driver was speeding which meant he'd no time to react and when the collision occured it was at a serious speed which caused the car to flip.

It showed me and our friend who was in the car in front of us how quickly things can happen and your life snuffed out.

The man was dead by the time we got to him and it'll stay with me for the rest of my life how quiet everything was etc.

Hopefully your powerful post will mean someone watching what they do on the roads.

mecanoman

Sorry for the loss of your friend. Ottostreet. Its goona be a tough time
for all involved for a long time.

Well done in posting such a well worded and though provoking post.

Hopefully as many people can read your post as possible and prehapes not suffer what you and that chaps family are going thru.