The Spirit of Collins?

ejmaztec

I think Michael Collins must be turning in his grave. The only similarity with Ireland and Michael Collins in the Lenihan context is that both got shot in the head.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0822/breaking8.html
Spirit of Collins is spirit of our nation, says Lenihan


Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan called on all in public life to let the spirit of Michael Collins inspire them through the current economic crisis.
The Fianna Fáil minister made history when he became the first figure in the party to deliver the keynote oration at the annual commemoration at Béal na mBláth.
The sun shone in west Cork as the crowd applauded Mr Lenihan, who revealed he was honoured and privileged to speak at the traditionally Fine Gael ceremony.
“If today’s commemoration can be seen as a further public act of historical reconciliation, at one of Irish history’s sacred places, then I will be proud to have played my part,” he said.

Biggins

Its FF and its the usual spin and schite.
Different day, any opportunity to spin their version of events.
Even if its over an anniversary of a death!

Donkey Oaty

The sun shone in west Cork as the crowd applauded Mr Lenihan

Hmmm.

ejmaztec

If Michael Collins walked through a time portal, the government jet would be fully loaded in less than an hour, with an extra supply of toilet-paper, and making a one-way trip to obscurity.

FearDark

Forget politics, if Michael Collins saw what Ireland has become today he would be spinning in his grave.

phasers

FearDark wrote: »

Forget politics, if Michael Collins saw what Ireland has become today he would be spinning in his grave.

Of course he would be, because he'd be alive.

Donkey Oaty

FearDark wrote: »

Forget politics, if Michael Collins saw what Ireland has become today he would be spinning in his grave.

What was it exactly that he wanted?

bazmaiden

Biggins wrote: »

Its FF and its the usual spin and schite.
Different day, any opportunity to spin their version of events.
Even if its over an anniversary of a death!

why is the girl in your sig not japanese?

Biggins

bazmaiden wrote: »

why is the girl in your sig not japanese?

Because an appreciation of culture is not just confined to its own home-based people!

Washington Irving

bazmaiden wrote: »

why is the girl in your sig not japanese?

Don't say that or he'll change it!

Biggins

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

Don't say that or he'll change it!

:pac:

OutlawPete

F*** Fianna Fail.

They distance themselves from republicanism and even nationalism at almost every opportunity and then when it suits them, they trot out some crap like this that makes me want to hurl.

Go down to 16 Moore St and you'll get a good idea just what FF and their cronies feel for the spirit of Michal Collins.

bazmaiden

Biggins wrote: »

Because an appreciation of culture is not just confined to its own home-based people!

oh you like interracial




nice

Einhard

bazmaiden wrote: »

why is the girl in your sig not japanese?

Because nobody likes pixellated vagina.

dlofnep

It's always interesting to see Fine Gael hijack the memory of Michael Collins. If they went back in time, they would be labeling him as a lefty-terrorist.

Biggins

Einhard wrote: »

Because nobody likes pixellated vagina.

Actually, Hayden Panettiere (in my signature) is currently still fighting to save some dolphins in Japan that are killed every year in an annual hunt.
(Which is another Japanese topic that can be discussed in the forum if/when its created! See HERE.)

...But off topic I'm going.

Back to Collins and how FF are even using this memorable day to spin their rubbish....

mikemac

Why all the talk over this?

FF and SF hold big events at Wolfe Tone's grave in Bodenstown every year with pretty much the exact same speeches.

Agent Smith

dlofnep wrote: »

It's always interesting to see Fine Gael hijack the memory of Michael Collins. If they went back in time, they would be labeling him as a lefty-terrorist.

Hardly Hijacking


General Collins Was a Major member of the the pro-treaty Side of Sinn Féin

pro treaty Sinn Féin became Cumann na nGaedhael

Cumann na nGaedhael became Fine Gael

civis_liberalis

ejmaztec wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0822/breaking8.html
Spirit of Collins is spirit of our nation, says Lenihan

Me arse.

NoHornJan

Agent Smith wrote: »

Hardly Hijacking


General Collins Was a Major member of the the pro-treaty Side of Sinn Féin

pro treaty Sinn Féin became Cumann na nGaedhael

Cumann na nGaedhael became Fine Gael

If there wasn't a difference of opinion then, there might never have been a Fiana Fail / Fine Gael split and we'd be all be governed by Sinn Fein now...

NoHornJan

Agent Smith wrote: »

Hardly Hijacking


General Collins Was a Major

dlofnep

Agent Smith wrote: »

Hardly Hijacking


General Collins Was a Major member of the the pro-treaty Side of Sinn Féin

pro treaty Sinn Féin became Cumann na nGaedhael

Cumann na nGaedhael became Fine Gael

You're making alot of assumptions. You assume Collins would have neatly fell into those ranks if he had lived. The reality of the matter is different. If Michael Collins was alive today, he would certainly not be a member of Fine Gael and would be distanced from their politics.
They most certainly did hijack his image.

FlutterinBantam

NoHornJan wrote: »

If there wasn't a difference of opinion then, there might never have been a Fiana Fail / Fine Gael split and we'd be all be governed by Sinn Fein now...

Thank God that's not anywhere near reality.

Too many common-sense voters around who can see through the rhetoric.

Unfortunately some very dedicated hard-core activists are constantly promulgating their agenda and I suppose it's not hard to believe how some idealistic immature people can get sucked into the system which promises that those who earn money legitimately by taking risks will be taxed to the hilt and the drone and dullard can sit back,do the minimum on easy street.

It's an attractive scenario until one drills down and examines it

mickydoomsux

How about we stop worrying about the spirit and ideals of someone who's been dead for nearly 90 years?

This country needs to look to the future and actualy join everyone else in the 21st century. Holding up these old, long-dead guys as paragons and saying we should follow their lead is idiotic.

No wonder we're so backward as a nation.

Nodin

bazmaiden wrote: »

why is the girl in your sig not japanese?

....because what she does with tentacles some find disturbing....

Nodin

mickydoomsux wrote: »

How about we stop worrying about the spirit and ideals of someone who's been dead for nearly 90 years?

This country needs to look to the future and actualy join everyone else in the 21st century. Holding up these old, long-dead guys as paragons and saying we should follow their lead is idiotic.

Well, if you can manage to be inspired by Enda kenny, Cowan, Ahern (any) or Callely, fair does to ye.

Notorious97

I don’t see why we should forget Collins, if you have read his writings and notes, you will know how clever he was. The fact that he could run a war of independence, organise an intelligence operation so sophisticated it brought the British spying system to its knees within Ireland, organise the national loan and the country’s finances while riding around Dublin on a bike with a reward on his head is quite an accomplishment.

I for one think the civil war divisions in irish politics should be forgotten, but definitely don’t think we should forget Michael Collins. Nobody asked him to help Irelands cause, yet he gave his life for it.

I also don’t agree that he would be linked with FG if he was alive today, nobody knows the direction the country may have taken if he wasn’t murdered that day, Ireland was robbed of a great leader that day in my opinion.

Kasabian

He lost us 6 counties.

Biggins

Kasabian wrote: »

He lost us 6 counties.

They were lost before he left for negotiations - and Dev knew it but didn't want to be the fall guy!

Kasabian

Biggins wrote: »

They were lost before he left for negotiations - and Dev knew it but didn't want to be the fall guy!

Not according to my Grandad.

Biggins

Kasabian wrote: »

Not according to my Grandad.

Well I won't ask who your granddad is, to preserve your I.D. but with respect, others from the same generation have had a different outlook and analyses to your granddad based on their closeness to Dev, Collins and events of the day.

It's a huge topic alone that's still being discussed today in historical quarters.

thebigbiffo

It is my considered opinion that in the fullness of time history will record the greatness of Michael Collins and it will be recorded at my expense.

Eamn De Valera quote

Comment in 1966, quoted in Michael Collins : A Biography (1990) by Tim Pat Coogan, p. 432

about the only true words Dev ever uttered

Notorious97

Collins didn’t lose anybody anything let alone lose us the 6 counties. Britian were never going to give them as part of an irish state. Thats a fact, the unionists had close links with the conservatives and this simply was not going to be a reality. What Collins did believe was that we instead had to convince unionists within the 6 counties to the potential for more power within a united free Ireland that they currently had. Unfortunately he never got the chance to put any of his plans in motion. When other irish leaders concentrated on a single act of freeing Ireland, Collins always thought about what came after that.

Dev fu*ked Collins over in my opinion, and im not sure how Boards feels about Dev but i for one do not rate him at all. The civil war was a terrible time when whole families were split over the treaty, but i strongly doubt they could have lasted another round, i think if we had rejected the free state on offer Britain would have had a blank cheque to run riot in this country and squash any movement against british rule, and the rest of the world (not that they ever done much for us at the time) could not have questioned Britain on it as they had offered us some freedom....’not the ultimate freedom that all nations desire, but the freedom to achieve it’ to quote the man himself.

speedboatchase

What would Stephen Gately do?

StephenHendry

i read the yesterday that young FG were boycotting it because lenihan was giving the speech. couldn't believe , the nerve of those fcuking cnuts ,

mikemac

Kasabian wrote: »

Not according to my Grandad.

This is probably a difference in generations.
I knew my grandparents pretty much worshipped Dev but realy so did a good proportion of that generation, maybe even yours.

In our local town, there is even an estate called De Valera Court as there was an old hotel there where he stayed when visiting the town.
Is it true there isn't a street in Ireland named after De Valera?

Anyway, a few decades ago Collins wasn't nearly as popular as he is today.
These things goes in cycles, maybe in another 30 years we will all be praising De Valera again.

StephenHendry wrote: »

i read the yesterday that young FG were boycotting it because lenihan was giving the speech. couldn't believe , the nerve of those fcuking cnuts ,

Tbh, if Enda Kenny gave the speech for Bodenstown at the FF annual event, I'd be reading pretty much the same story. No real difference in the parties

thebigbiffo

Biggins wrote: »

Well I won't ask who your granddad is, to preserve your I.D. but with respect, others from the same generation have had a different outlook and analyses to your granddad based on their closeness to Dev, Collins and events of the day.

It's a huge topic alone that's still being discussed today in historical quarters.

biggins pretty much has the accepted (by historians) view on this. I've read both Collins' and De Valeras biogs and there really is no other way to view the events as they were.

It was - as was very typical of Dev - a political master stroke.

podgemonster

It should never be forgotten what Michael Collins did for our country or indeed any man who put his life on the line to give us freedom from the biggest empire at the time.

There are no perfect men in the world, only perfect intentions.

Collins also kicked ass in Taken :P

Biggins

thebigbiffo wrote: »

...pretty much has the accepted (by historians) view on this...

It was - as was very typical of Dev - a political master stroke.

All very true. Collins was/is seen as the patsy for Dev.

Wolfe Tone

Actually I feel that this has gone a long way to heal the last lingering civil war divisions and bad feeling. So fair play Lenihan. Thumbs up!

mickydoomsux

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Actually I feel that this has gone a long way to heal the last lingering civil war divisions and bad feeling. So fair play Lenihan. Thumbs up!

The last what now?

The vast majority of people today don't care about any of that nonsense.

Wolfe Tone

mickydoomsux wrote: »

The last what now?

The vast majority of people today don't care about any of that nonsense.

Some people do. So I say fair play.

PeterIanStaker

If Collins were around I'd like to see him get the Squad after the Gombeens. I wouldn't mind paying the Squad's expenses after all bullets are cheap.

Wolfe Tone

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If Collins were around I'd like to see him get the Squad after the Gombeens. I wouldn't mind paying the Squad's expenses after all bullets are cheap.

So is talk, go get a gun and do it yourself!

PeterIanStaker

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So is talk, go get a gun and do it yourself!

sure you cant just ask your friends?

Wolfe Tone

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

sure you cant just ask your friends?

I have none

mickydoomsux

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If Collins were around I'd like to see him get the Squad after the Gombeens.

But he's not. Because he's been dead for nearly a century..... along with his ideals.

PeterIanStaker

mickydoomsux wrote: »

But he's not. Because he's been dead for nearly a century..... along with his ideals.

"what if there were no hypothetical questions?" - George Carlin.

mickydoomsux

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

"what if there were no hypothetical questions?" - George Carlin.

Does someone have to die before you value their opinion?

Notorious97

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Does someone have to die before you value their opinion?

Apostles of Freedom are ever idolised when dead, but crucified when alive - James Connolly

mickydoomsux

And people wonder why this country is a backwater ****hole?

Fools clinging to century old 'heroes' and their outdated ideology.