Dr. David Kelly,Weapons Expert,Died 2003

sxt

The death of Doctor David Kelly

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I was just reading the article today about weapons expert ,Dr. Kelly, who created a massive political storm by being publicly identified as the main person who questioned the legality of the war in Iraq in 2003, he died that year as well. Do you think it is more likely that he committed suicide or that he was murdered?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:beJh14fQcvoJ:www.globalresearch.ca/index.php%3Fcontext%3Dva%26aid%3D19930+globalresearch.ca+david+kelly&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

google david kelly weapons expecter on wiki ,My internet connect is rubbish so that may be a reason why i cannot open this particular page?

col.in.Cr

top link does not work

col.in.Cr

none of the links work

meglome

I have no idea if he was murdered, there is no evidence for it. However given his situation it's plausible he committed suicide. So you might want to add some extra options for the lack of evidence. Cause I can think what I like, that doesn't make it true.

uprising2

sxt wrote: »

The death of Doctor David Kelly

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I was just reading the article today about weapons expert ,Dr. Kelly, who created a massive political storm by being publicly identified as the main person who questioned the legality of the war in Iraq in 2003, he died that year as well. Do you think it is more likely that he committed suicide or that he was murdered?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:beJh14fQcvoJ:www.globalresearch.ca/index.php%3Fcontext%3Dva%26aid%3D19930+globalresearch.ca+david+kelly&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

google david kelly weapons expecter on wiki ,My internet connect is rubbish so that may be a reason why i cannot open this particular page?

Here's a little thread to read before using memory of the Hutton SCAM Enquiry as a basis for your vote:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055811277

humanji

I'm not too sure myself. I'd favour suicide more so than murder, though. He was a very depressed individual who had hinted at suicide before, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility for him to have killed himself.

And I pointed this out before, he was all for the invasion of Iraq and fully believed that they had WMD's. The problem was that a supposed chemical lab that was used as evidence didn't, to Kelly, seem like a viable place for a chemical lab and it was this that he questioned.

The problem lies with the Hutton Enquiry which is very suspicious, but then again, it's to do with the Dept. of Defence and most things they do with are suspicious and highly confidential. The sealing of the records is odd enough, but why only seal them for a set amount of time? If they were that revealing, why not just seal them permanently? Would that not have been a better idea? It's all very odd.

Churchy

Might help your credibility if the topic had the correct decade.

Bog Warrior

It seems some of his family think he was murdered too:

Yesterdays news (ignore their url claim)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303674/Dr-David-Kellys-cousin-claims-did-commit-suicide.html

Bog Warrior

humanji wrote: »

I'm not too sure myself. I'd favour suicide more so than murder, though. He was a very depressed individual who had hinted at suicide before, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility for him to have killed himself.

Where do you find the information that he was a very depressed individual? His cousin said "If you knew the man it's totally against his whole way of being"

If the hinting at suicide you refer to is him stating something like "if they invade Iraq, you will likely find me dead in the woods" ...well that clearly refers to a hit in my opinion

Di0genes

Bog Warrior wrote: »

Where do you find the information that he was a very depressed individual? His cousin said "If you knew the man it's totally against his whole way of being"

And yet his wife and children accept the results of the hutton inquiry.

If the hinting at suicide you refer to is him stating something like "if they invade Iraq, you will likely find me dead in the woods" ...well that clearly refers to a hit in my opinion

He didn't say anything of the sort. Its unattributed. An unverified.

Bog Warrior

Di0genes wrote: »

And yet his wife and children accept the results of the hutton inquiry.

Have you got a source for that claim?

This is the only family statement I can find:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/hutton/story/0,13822,1133301,00.html

humanji

Bog Warrior wrote: »

Where do you find the information that he was a very depressed individual? His cousin said "If you knew the man it's totally against his whole way of being"

If the hinting at suicide you refer to is him stating something like "if they invade Iraq, you will likely find me dead in the woods" ...well that clearly refers to a hit in my opinion

Well that's not the quote I was talking about, but quote clearly says nothing of the sort. It can mean a lot of things, but none of them are certain. He said that when asked what would happen if Iraq was invaded. Iraq was invaded and then months later someone killed him? Why? Why not before it? Why not just after it? Why kill him when he had no more part to play in any of the events?

I mentioned in another thread that the only people who might gain anything from his death is the Iraqi Intelligence, who may kill him in revenge for lying to them. The UK government didn't gain anything from his death. In fact, they'd gain more by his living in disgrace.

The article I read before was in a paper and I think I might of been linked to it from Prison Planet (so it may not be trustworthy at all ). It was saying that he had attempted suicide before, but found god or something and join a new religion. I'll see if I can track it down.

humanji

Bog Warrior wrote: »

Have you got a source for that claim?

This is the only family statement I can find:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/hutton/story/0,13822,1133301,00.html

Doesn't that link say that they accept the report?

beans

This is relevant

Guardian wrote:

He added: "People who have expressed concerns about why Lord Hutton did not tie up every loose end may have a valid point."


But he said he could not apply to the high court for an inquest on a "hunch" and would have to take account of the feelings of the scientist's close family, who have not asked for a new investigation into his death.


"I have been given no evidence to suggest an alternative cause of death.

So put up or shut up. "Show us the evidence, and we'll take it further" kind of situation.

Bog Warrior

humanji wrote: »

Doesn't that link say that they accept the report?

No I don't see that. Can you reference where it says that?

Bog Warrior

humanji wrote: »

The article I read before was in a paper and I think I might of been linked to it from Prison Planet (so it may not be trustworthy at all ). It was saying that he had attempted suicide before, but found god or something and join a new religion. I'll see if I can track it down.

Well in my reading into the case I haven't come across any reference to him being a depressive or attempting suicide, in fact the opposite - it being against his character and beliefs - so I'd be interested in seeing some sources.

humanji

Bog Warrior wrote: »

No I don't see that. Can you reference where it says that?

"They observed that Lord Hutton has made no recommendation for the future, but, if their personal tragedy is not to be compounded, they urge that, regardless of any criticism or exoneration in the report, the government take action to ensure that the ordeal suffered by David Kelly will never be repeated. No other person should have to suffer the pressure that he experienced. "

If they thought it was murder why are they asking that people don't be put under the kind of pressure Kelly was putt under during the parlimentary hearing, instead of asking for theinquiry to be reopened?

Bog Warrior wrote: »

Well in my reading into the case I haven't come across any reference to him being a depressive or attempting suicide, in fact the opposite - it being against his character and beliefs - so I'd be interested in seeing some sources.

In fairness, the man's career was destroyed by the government and his future was bleak. That's a lot of stress and it would take a special kind of person not to be depressed at that!

I'm positive that article is somewhere on Prison Planet, so I'll have a search for it when I get a chance later and let you know.

seamus

humanji wrote: »

In fairness, the man's career was destroyed by the government and his future was bleak. That's a lot of stress and it would take a special kind of person not to be depressed at that!

On top of that, the man was a scientist, not a celebrity or a politician. The stress of the publicity forced upon him, coupled with the stress of his superiors and all of the politicians basically telling him to shut up or face the consequences was no doubt unlike anything he'd (or most people) ever experienced before in his life.

Of all conspiracy theories, I think this one has plenty of merit, but suicide doesn't seem like an unlikely outcome of an ordinary man suddenly being cast into the international political spotlight.

Bog Warrior

humanji wrote: »

"They observed that Lord Hutton has made no recommendation for the future, but, if their personal tragedy is not to be compounded, they urge that, regardless of any criticism or exoneration in the report, the government take action to ensure that the ordeal suffered by David Kelly will never be repeated. No other person should have to suffer the pressure that he experienced. "

If they thought it was murder why are they asking that people don't be put under the kind of pressure Kelly was putt under during the parlimentary hearing, instead of asking for theinquiry to be reopened?


In fairness, the man's career was destroyed by the government and his future was bleak. That's a lot of stress and it would take a special kind of person not to be depressed at that!

I'm positive that article is somewhere on Prison Planet, so I'll have a search for it when I get a chance later and let you know.

I am questioning claims made in this forum stating that the family accept the findings and I'm asking for sources for that claim. The family statement I posted does not contain any family approval, endorsement or acceptance of the findings.

You are inferring the conclusion that they accept the findings on the basis that they asked for the government to take action against pressuring professionals.

While I acknowledge that you can deduce such - as you have above - you can also deduce that they do not consider the matter as closed and final by:

1 -The statement by the cousin of David Kelly
2 -The lack of a recent appeal by the family for the matter to be left be, in light of the recent resurfacing in the media.

None of this proves anything, but it does expose previous claims that the family accepts the hutton report, as being without firm evidence.

also, don't bother going looking for that article, I'm sure it exists but there are many mainstream media articles easily available. I am yet to see one that states he had a history of depression or previously attempted suicide, so one article on Prison Planet won't convince me

Bog Warrior

Official cause of death is branded 'impossible'

From the article:

a medical report says it was ‘impossible’ that Dr Kelly bled to death in the way described by the inquiry.

The study, whose authors include vascular and trauma surgeons, deals with the Hutton report’s finding that Dr Kelly died from loss of blood after cutting a small artery in his wrist.

The doctors say that, based on Dr Kelly’s weight and size, he would have had to lose 2,700ml of blood to threaten his life.

Their report, which has been submitted to Attorney General Dominic Grieve, says: ‘It was impossible for 2,700ml of blood to have been lost through this small artery. ‘Indeed, to lose 500ml through it would have been unlikely.’

Last week a separate group of nine doctors wrote an open letter to the Government saying they did not believe Dr Kelly died from loss of blood. Mr Grieve says he remains ‘ concerned’ by the case and is reviewing the papers.

Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke is considering a separate request to release Dr Kelly’s medical files, which are due to be kept secret for 70 years on the instructions of Lord Hutton.

drkpower

Bog Warrior wrote: »

Official cause of death is branded 'impossible'

Even if that is true, does that make the case one of murder? ie. how does it make this a conspiracy?

Bog Warrior

drkpower wrote: »

Even if that is true, does that make the case one of murder? ie. how does it make this a conspiracy?

It doesn't.
If it is true that the official explanation of the cause of death is impossible, there may be other explanations such as 'they made a mistake'

The conspiracy is that many people believe the most likely cause of death to be murder by the government or NWO under the guise of the freemasons through the officially named "Operation Mason" as it was called.

If there was enough proof for this (or enough proof emerges) it would no longer be a conspiracy and simply be fact.

drkpower

Bog Warrior wrote: »

It doesn't.
If it is true that the official explanation of the cause of death is impossible, there may be other explanations such as 'they made a mistake'

Or that he died from a heart attack, as suggested by at least one of the eminent medics who are questioning the blood loss theory. And that an investigation by someone who was not a Coroner erred in its view of both the cause of death and the verdict.

Far more likely than the masonic nonsense.

Bog Warrior

drkpower wrote: »

Or that he died from a heart attack, as suggested by at least one of the eminent medics who are questioning the blood loss theory. And that an investigation by someone who was not a Coroner erred in its view of both the cause of death and the verdict.

Far more likely than the masonic nonsense.

Yea its possible, but it leaves unanswered questions like why were there no fingerprints on the knife? In trying to find a source for your claim about the eminent medic, I found this too:

All here: Independent.co.uk:
Evidence: Ten reasons to query the suicide verdict

1. An elbow injury had left David Kelly's right arm too weak to cut his wrist.

2. He had "difficulty swallowing pills" so he couldn't have swallowed 29 tablets.

3. Medical records about the case have been classified for 70 years, implying there's something to hide.

4. There were no fingerprints on the pruning knife used to cut his wrist.

5. He anticipated his own death, predicting he would "probably be found dead in the woods" if Iraq was invaded.

6. Doctors doubt the severed artery would have caused enough blood loss for him to have died of a haemorrhage.

7. The detective who found his body, Constable Graham Coe, said there wasn't much blood, so how could he have died of blood loss after slitting his wrist?

8. Two paramedics at the scene were sceptical the "wrist wound we saw" could have caused his death.

9. There was no evidence he was depressed; he was looking forward to his daughter's wedding.

10. His death certificate was not signed by a doctor or coroner and does not state a place of death.

humanji

I was thinking about this last night and thought that there might be another party who could have killed him: the wife. If it was murder and it was by an outside force, then they managed to sneak into the house, go to the upstairs bathroom and steal the wife's medication, then go to the kitchen and take the garden knife all without the wife knowing.

Now, I'm no expert assassin, but if you're in a kitchen would you also not go for a sharp kitchen knife? And there were no prints on the knife. It's never been clearing exlpained if there were no usable fingerprints on the knife or if it had been wiped clean. Would an expert killer not have the knowhow to simply place the knife in Kelly's hand to get his prints on it?

Anyway, there were pills found in his system. Does anyone know if they were full pills, or if toxicollogy reports said that the medication was in his sytem and they worked out that it was a set amount of pills? If it was just in his sytem, the wife could have been feeding them to him all day. She takes the knife and follows him when he goes for a walk.

Once she's sure he's alone, she approaches him and he wouldn't be alarmed by it at all. By now, he'd be feeling a little iffy from the pills and she could suggest he sits down for a bit of a rest. If the pills were taking effect, he might feel a bit to disorientated to be able to stop his wife from slashing at his wrist. The sheer panic of not knowing what's going on and his wife attacking him would send his heart into overdrive and pump blood out of a wound out of what would have been thought to be non-fatal in normal circumstances.

There were claims by paramedics that there wasn't enough blood there, but if you poor a pint of water onto concrete, it makes a large pool. Poor the same amount onto a woodlands floor and it makes a small pool and seeps underground. Add to this Kelly's heart condition and the panicked state he'd be in, and it wouldnt' take much to kill him.

Now, the key thing is motive. Well, I have questions about the state of the marriage. Kelly changed his religion and didn't tell his wife for two years. It seems strange that a happily married man would keep something like that from his other half. If you add to this that the wife can easily see Kelly as having brought a fair amount of shame onto the family (he's destroyed his career and credibility and would never be able to get a job even remotely to do with what he's an expert in) and it wouldn't be the first time a wife took matters into her own hands.

His daughter was getting married a few months later. Would the whole parlimentary hearings overshadowed the event and could it have been easier to jsut get rid of him and have people view the rest of the family with pity instead of possible contempt or ridicule?

In fairness, it's a lot of wild, unsubstantiated speculation, and maybe I've just watched too much Midsummer Murders, but it's food for thought, none the less.

sxt

humanji wrote: »

"They observed that Lord Hutton has made no recommendation for the future, but, if their personal tragedy is not to be compounded, they urge that, regardless of any criticism or exoneration in the report, the government take action to ensure that the ordeal suffered by David Kelly will never be repeated. No other person should have to suffer the pressure that he experienced. "

If they thought it was murder why are they asking that people don't be put under the kind of pressure Kelly was putt under during the parlimentary hearing, instead of asking for theinquiry to be reopened?


In fairness, the man's career was destroyed by the government and his future was bleak. That's a lot of stress and it would take a special kind of person not to be depressed at that!

I'm positive that article is somewhere on Prison Planet, so I'll have a search for it when I get a chance later and let you know.

I don't think he would have been too devastated about his career been finished ,it is not as if he was a young man just starting out.

I'm thinking that the people in positions of power, that the weapons inspector was pointing fingers at, would have been under slightly more pressure, don't you think

humanji

sxt wrote: »

I don't think he would have been too devastated about his career been finished ,it is not as if he was a young man just starting out.

I'm thinking that the people in positions of power, that the weapons inspector was pointing fingers at, would have been under slightly more pressure, don't you think

Not really. How many of them were affected by this? People have a short memory when it comes to politicians. There was a bit of a grumble when it first happened and then everyone moved on.

I said before, the government lost out more with his death than they would have it he lived.

meglome

Dr David Kelly death a 'textbook' suicide

As the pathologist who performed the post mortem on Dr David Kelly breaks his silence, claiming the death was a "textbook case" of suicide, former assistant deputy coroner Dr Michael Powers QC tells Channel 4 News he should have gone into this detail when questioned by Lord Hutton.
Dr David Kelly (Reuters)

Dr Kelly, who was 59, was found dead in woods near his Oxfordshire home in July 2003, after he was outed as the BBC source to the Iraq "sexed up" dossier report.

Speaking to the Sunday Times, Dr Nicholas Hunt claimed he had found no signs of murder following an eight hour examination, saying: "I felt very, very sorry for David Kelly and the way he had been treated by the government... I had every reason to look for something untoward and would dearly love to have found something.

"It was an absolute classic case of self-inflicted injury. You could illustrate a textbook with it.

"If it were anyone else and you were to suggest there's something foul about it, you would be referred for additional training. I would welcome an inquest, I've nothing to hide."

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/dr+david+kelly+death+a+apostextbookapos+suicide/3750477

A good friend of his was interviewed on Channel 4 news saying he had no problem believing he committed suicide.

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/dr+david+kelly+death+a+apostextbookapos+suicide/3750477

A good friend of his was interviewed on Channel 4 news saying he had no problem believing he committed suicide.

So if there was a cover up a pathologist who would have had to have been directly involved in the cover up said there was no cover up. Well thats that then.

Mods could I change my vote to suicide in light of this revelation?

meglome

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So if there was a cover up a pathologist who would have had to have been directly involved in the cover up said there was no cover up. Well thats that then.

Mods could I change my vote to suicide in light of this revelation?

Well I'm not a doctor nor was i involved so I don't know what happened. So all I can go on is what the qualified people who investigated tell us. We can assume that everyone is lying and there's a big conspiracy. But I don't know what the government have to gain by killing him, if anything they look bad because he died. IMO it would have made more sense to keep him alive.

Looks like there will be an inquest now... why do I think you guys won't believe that either.

bytey

120% murder ,
no colombo needed here .