Are my eyes deceiving me: construction *started* on a new estate in Dunshaughlin?

Dostoevsky

Tell me this is not true. On the Dublin side of Dunshaughlin, as you approach the village on the right-hand side, the diggers have gone in and are digging up the foundations for what is advertised as a large housing estate. I was under the impression that this side of the village was zoned for industry.

The diggers just arrived today or yesterday. If they really are starting to build a new estate here, how is it justified? It seems madness in the same country as 300,000 empty homes were recorded in earlier this year.

bitemybanger

They will sell too. Tasty new houses with tasty pricetags in a nice town just minutes from Dublin with a spanking new motorway at your doorstep. The whole country isn't out of work.

Not

That's a seriously dangerous section of road that that is going up by, due to the Dublin bound carraigeway being squeezed against the verge to accommodate the outbound buslane.

I do hope that a condition of the planning permission was to provide a pavement along that side of the road into the village, in order for pedestrians to be able to walk to the village from the estate and to create a line of sight for cars emerging onto the main road.

That is one stretch of 60k speed limit I 100% agree with, but which most through traffic ignores. You'd realise why it was there if you had to emerge from the Esso station there, difficult enough due to obstructed sight lines and lack of margin at the best of times, but nigh on impossible when some idiot parks a truck there, which I fear will happen more often during the construction of the estate.

norbert64

lol, is this it?
http://www.friendsoftheirishenvironment.net/paperstoday/index.php?action=view&id=4625

Looks like they applied in 2003, but didn't actually get the green light until now

Not

norbert64 wrote: »

lol, is this it?
http://www.friendsoftheirishenvironment.net/paperstoday/index.php?action=view&id=4625

Looks like they applied in 2003, but didn't actually get the green light until now

LOL indeed, the size of it :eek: Are they trying to start another housing boom ??

Amazing what they were thinking in 2003/2004. It'll surely be very watered down given the current economic climate.

daltonm

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Tell me this is not true. On the Dublin side of Dunshaughlin, as you approach the village on the right-hand side, the diggers have gone in and are digging up the foundations for what is advertised as a large housing estate. I was under the impression that this side of the village was zoned for industry.

The diggers just arrived today or yesterday. If they really are starting to build a new estate here, how is it justified? It seems madness in the same country as 300,000 empty homes were recorded in earlier this year.

Yep - I got a call from an EA about them, prices starting at 220k for a 3 bed - pp for 250 houses, they are starting on the first 50 to see how they do!

CUCINA

Those first couple of houses are shooting up...from a foundation two or three weeks ago, now the roof structure is up and the windows are fitted.

Each house takes only weeks to build yet many of the eventual occupants will be paying for the privilege of living in them for twenty years or more.

Anyway, it will be quite interesting to see how things work out with this development, in the context of the current depressed climate. I would hope that it goes well because it would be a good omen generally...and I'm looking forward to hearing some good news!

daltonm

daltonm wrote: »

Yep - I got a call from an EA about them, prices starting at 220k for a 3 bed - pp for 250 houses, they are starting on the first 50 to see how they do!

Received an update on these today - the 3 bed is now 185k - a bit bad for the sellers of 3 beds looking for 240k............

happygoose

Whats the name of the development?

stomprockin

happygoose wrote: »

Whats the name of the development?

Not sure on the name of the development but John Bannon is the selling agent.

I did not think there would be a demand for so many homes!

Not

I notice they haven't built any access roads, the two houses are literally going up in the middle of a field. Usually the access roads come first don't they ? Looks to me like they might be chancing their arms, and may have no idea whether or not there will be any worthwhile interest - if there isn't then I'd be worried it may just turn out to be another ghost estate. However, €185k for a 3 bed does sound like a tempting price given that's about half what you would have paid two or three years ago. It'll be interesting to see how it develops.

Dubh Geannain

Not wrote: »

I notice they haven't built any access roads, the two houses are literally going up in the middle of a field. Usually the access roads come first don't they ? Looks to me like they might be chancing their arms, and may have no idea whether or not there will be any worthwhile interest

Yep. Could be a couple of showhouses.

These should be competitively priced relative to similar houses on the market in the area as their overheads should be less.

However, IMHO this is a pure gamble.

Dostoevsky

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

However, IMHO this is a pure gamble.

I agree. What I'd like to know is has Meath County Council received the necessary deposits upfront from the property developer behind this or, when it fails, will we be saddled with another ghost estate with unfinished roads and services simply because MCC was negligent in its duty?

The negligence of Kildare CC, Laois CC and so many others in this regard - I surmise that most people have already read this article - should be a lesson to us all about what can happen when our local authority does not get the required deposit up front or, for that matter, allows such building work to commence in the first place.

This all sounds seriously dodgy in the current environment.

CUCINA

I see that the showhouse is opening this Saturday and I saw them laying down a tarmac road as I drove past there earlier today...
I had an opportunity recently to have a look round the three-bedroom house (the one on the right-hand side). Smaller rooms than I expected but the house has a solid, quality feel about it. The most impressive feature, though, I think, is the third-floor area, very spacious.
The four-bedroom next door wasn't finished but looks quite substantial, with extesions to the side and the back. On the down side, the back gardens are quite small, especially when viewed in the context of the huge open spaces surrounding the two houses.
I was talking with a chap who was working today and he was saying that five houses have been sold already. He also worked on similar houses built by the same builder in Rathcoole ("Peyton") which, he said, were a good bit more expensive.
Apparently, the plan is to build 900 houses...sounds a bit grand given the current circumstances, but I hope it works out, for all concerned.
Who knows, maybe "The Willows", as the development is called, will be the flag-ship leading us out of the choppy waters of the recession!

etcetc

madness

what bank is behind this or is developer having a punt with his own money

CUCINA

Well, whatever the whys and wherefors of it, I heard from a reliable source that over twenty houses were sold there on Saturday and Sunday.

PauloMN

CUCINA wrote: »

I had an opportunity recently to have a look round the three-bedroom house (the one on the right-hand side). Smaller rooms than I expected but the house has a solid, quality feel about it. The most impressive feature, though, I think, is the third-floor area, very spacious.

A three bedroom house with three floors in Dunshaughlin? :eek:

Will they ever learn....

Not

CUCINA wrote: »

Well, whatever the whys and wherefors of it, I heard from a reliable source that over twenty houses were sold there on Saturday and Sunday.

If that's the case, and if the developers economics have been devised within the scope of Irelands present economic climate, then maybe this development might be successful. And that surely would be a good sign.

IMO, the problem that resulted in the ghost estates is primarily their economics where devised in Celtic Tiger Ireland, and the bottom suddenly fell out of the tigers cage with an almighty crunch somewhere after financing and starting, and before the sale of the houses.

Obviously, no one wants to buy into an already established ghost estate, but possibly its different for a development starting on a clean slate ?

I'm still worried about that access road though. IMO, they need to keep the lines of sight clear where it joins the main road - no bushes, hedges, trees or railings right out front along the main road, unless traffic lights are put up.

ibarelycare

My mam went to look at the show houses out of interest, they look absolutely gorgeous. Was having a look at the brochure and all the houses are going to be finished to a really high standard. Very reasonable too, prices start at 185k, I think that's for a 3-bed townhouse.

daltonm

CUCINA wrote: »

Well, whatever the whys and wherefors of it, I heard from a reliable source that over twenty houses were sold there on Saturday and Sunday.

John Bannon would be the only reliable source would he not?

I would be flummoxed if over 20 of these were sold in one day for several reasons.


The first is that the development is not finished and they do not know if there will be 50 or 250 houses at the end of it. I personally wouldn't fancy buying into a ghost estate - we know the problems that this has caused residents all over the country.

Secondly - the price. The 4 bed semi at 295k is too expensive and I don't care what kind of finish there is on them. There are several 4 beds on the market for under 300k - NOT selling in established estates http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=376446 for 225k - you'd get it for 200k, put 50k into and there you go.

CUCINA

daltonm wrote: »

John Bannon would be the only reliable source would he not?

I would be flummoxed if over 20 of these were sold in one day for several reasons.


The first is that the development is not finished and they do not know if there will be 50 or 250 houses at the end of it. I personally wouldn't fancy buying into a ghost estate - we know the problems that this has caused residents all over the country.

Secondly - the price. The 4 bed semi at 295k is too expensive and I don't care what kind of finish there is on them. There are several 4 beds on the market for under 300k - NOT selling in established estates



http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=376446 for 225k - you'd get it for 200k, put 50k into and there you go.

Well, Bannon's wouldn't be the only source...there are a lot of organisations involved in building a house (plumbers, decorators, kitchen-fitters etc.) who have a stake in this project succeeding.

But I agree with you that it looks like something of a gamble...as I said before, I wish all concerned the best of luck with this venture and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Not

I see the developers have erected banks around the estates entrance from the main road and planted bushes on them.

That's going to be a major traffic hazard as once the bushes grow to maturity anyone trying to get out from the estate is going to have to put their car well into the Dublin bound lane in order to see what's coming down the road. There's no hard shoulder there, and the lanes are not very wide in order to accommodate the bus lane on the other side of the road. As the speed limit is generally ignored there, you have to be able to see quite a bit down the road in order to be able to pull out safely.

Maybe there are plans for traffic lights for this junction ? I hope so.

Johnnyb101

They have built a similar developement in Rathcoole called Peyton Place. It looks very nice. And the houses in the willows are larger and cheaper.

Voodoo_rasher

*shure* it will give construction jobs to all dunshaughlin's school drop-outs and mature bucks hoo are too unskilled and clumsy for hi-faluting head-wrecking customer service, software and App development, multi-lingual roles and all the other lite 'namby-pamby' s m a r t- economy jobs ha ha.

temporary construction jobs (even bigger ha ha..)

Johnnyb101

Not wrote: »

I see the developers have erected banks around the estates entrance from the main road and planted bushes on them.

That's going to be a major traffic hazard as once the bushes grow to maturity anyone trying to get out from the estate is going to have to put their car well into the Dublin bound lane in order to see what's coming down the road. There's no hard shoulder there, and the lanes are not very wide in order to accommodate the bus lane on the other side of the road. As the speed limit is generally ignored there, you have to be able to see quite a bit down the road in order to be able to pull out safely.

Maybe there are plans for traffic lights for this junction ? I hope so.

There is plans for this according to the Meath County Council's development plan for Dunshaughlin.

10.4.3 The Proposed Eastern Relief Road
The existing Development Plan proposes a link road at the east and north-eastern edge of the town that would form a circular route around the west of the town. The objectiveto provide this route has only partially been provided for a distance of c.40 metres at the north end of the town and providing access to a new residential estate.
Permission has been recently granted but has not been constructed for the southwestern element of this road from the Dublin Road to the Lagore Road, an element of which is marginally impacted by Route B. Some realignment of the permitted road may be required to facilitate Route B

CUCINA

There seems to be a chicken-and-egg situation going on in relation to the building of this estate; builders won't build unless the houses have committed sales, people won't buy unless the houses are built...everyone is walking on egg-shells.
As I mentioned before, I hope the whole project succeeds and that we are not looking at a work-in-progress ghost-estate.

I suppose it's really a microcosm of the housing market in general. What happens when the next big economic shock comes along, like the possible collapse of the Euro? But I suppose the words "bridge" and "cross" come to mind...

BrianD

Isn't this the site that the famous court case was over with Meath County Council and the words "with regard to [local planning objectives]" were rendered meaningless?

MCC will give planning permission to anything so they can get the rates. Have a read of A Royal Tragedy and a spree of rezoning about how things work in the county.

ibarelycare

Construction seems to be going VERY slowly on this site. Besides the two showhouses, which have been there about 9 months, there seems to be just 5 other houses built - two sets of two semi-detached houses and one detached.

Seems a bit suspect considering all the houses were supposedly sold from the plans?

Johnnyb101

I would have to agree. I seen the new showhouse recently which is very nice. But I cant understand why it going so slowly. There are apparently 26 sold out of 47 in phase one. Im not sure if its the same builder building Peyton Place but they only released phase 2 recently. Maybe they were working on finishing Peyton Place.

Dostoevsky

The plot thickens. I came back to have a look at the latest in the new thread about The Willows development in Dunshaughlin and the entire thread has been removed. It was here.

ibarelycare

What the hell?

Dubh Geannain

I can only assume legal channels were pursued. Potential neighbours getting together to fight their corner. We can't have that now can we.

bitemybanger

I received a PM from the OP requesting deletion of the thread.
After a couple of messages it was decided the best thing to do would be to delete the thread for reasons I'm not in a position to say.
Apoligies for any confusion.

babsybaby01

I know that in the Navan area a new estate is being built in Johnstown,like dunshaughlin they built showhouses...But then they only built houses as they were being sold...So the builder and bank is always covered and not lumped with an estate full of houses...Maybe that might be what they do in dunshaughlin too?

ashej

it is - they are only building to order

Dubh Geannain

Still F all happening over there. I really hope those buyers got their deposits back.

marketty

I'd like to hear more from anyone involved in this, seems to have completely ground to a halt

meercat

marketty wrote: »

I'd like to hear more from anyone involved in this, seems to have completely ground to a halt

there was a thread on this sites problems but mods removed it at ops request

Dubh Geannain

Looks like there was a similar thread on AAM that was also deleted:

http://boardreader.com/thread/The_Willows_Dunshaughlin_fh0X37j2.html

We're potential first time buyers and the likes of this carry on is making us consider building ourselves.

Homeless11

Deposits returned, builders a pleasure to deal with, issues beyond their control

Dubh Geannain

Hi Homeless. Thanks for the update.

Great news that the deposits were returned. My faith in mankind is restored

I hope the estate gets sorted out in due course as they were fairly decent looking houses by recent standards.

Homeless11

Us too, still have high hopes for it all going ahead. The builders have been really good with us and we are just waiting on that phone call, love those houses!

Vego

what exactly is the hold up ?

marketty

Good to hear those who put down deposits are being looked after. I hope this development goes ahead, maybe with fewer units than originally envisioned. Took a look at the showhome when it went up first and it really impressed, love that 3 storey lay-out. In fairness I don't think dunshaughlin was one of those towns that was overdeveloped during the bubble, not many empty houses, property prices still seem to be high (very wishful thinking in some cases) but it is a nice town and handy for Dublin. If my financial circumstances were different I may well have been one of those caught up in this :-(

Titanic1971

We were hoping to buy one. To be fair, the builder returned all monies paid. So whilst we lost a year's interest on our savings......we did get all our cash back.

I wouldn't describe them as a pleasure to deal with.....but they were true to their word regarding money. They just 'mislead' about everything else!!

My postman reckons they've been told that the houses have to come down. I've no way of proving that, but my postman is usually spot on!

In truth....I consider it a lucky break! Considering how much properties are falling still.....we'll be able to buy something 'grander'!

I hate seeing another empty estate.....but at least I'm not looking at it from the window of a house in the middle of it!

Vego

Did he return all money to everyone ?

Titanic1971

I'd be lying if I said yes....I've no way of knowing!

But.....as far as I'm aware 'everyone' was offered their money back!

I appreciate that everyone has their own opinions.....but I'd never deal with those builder's again. I was lied to on the phone & to my face more times than I care to recall.

Obviously they wanted to keep my money earning interest for them, but it took a lot to get the truth finally......all 10 completion dates were complete fiction!

Well....thankfully my money is back earning interest for me......& I'll never go near that particular group of builder's again.

What exactly the reasons are for the site failing I have no idea, thick smoke screens have obscured the truth & my willingness to believe what I'm told. BUT....the banks wouldn't issue Deeds of Temporary release....... I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions!

tuborg_man

,

CUCINA

The "Willows" project seems to be in tatters now, with the site looking very ragged... a real shame. But hopefully all is not lost. It seems that the builder is in dispute with Meath County Council, who apparently are terrified that they will be left with an unfinished ghost estate in their back yard. But yet sales were going well...all very messy.

The best we can hope for now is that the various parties in dispute resolve their differences, so that the site can be cleaned up one way or the other.

But we won't hold our breath; especially if it all ends up in the courts.

Titanic1971

CUCINA....I beg to differ!

We had a meeting with the builder's late last year. &, in a very open & frank discussion, the builder's made it very clear to us that the Council had been superb & had bent over backwards to help out. They were very firm in that statement. So unless the situation has dramatically changed since then, the problem is NOT with the council.
The bank would not give 'Deeds of Temporary Release'. I cannot, in all honesty, answer 'why'.....BUT that is the reason we were given, in the meeting, for the site 'stalling'.

I would be very interested to hear if that has subsequently changed??

If my memory serves me correctly there were 7 contracts signed out of Phase one, a phase which I recall had 56 units in it. (282 units in all phases I believe)

I believe it would have sold well.....if it had gone ahead. BUT for the year our money was with the builder's, smokescreens, untruths etc etc to be finally told that it was due to money/ banks etc. It always had been & every moving in date we'd been given was an impossibility!

I cannot begin to tell you how much we wanted that house, simply glorious place! However, the grass may indeed be greener as bigger & better are now within reach & the prices in the Willows would have to plummet to rejoin the real world....IF they're ever built! :rolleyes:

CUCINA

Apologies, I stand corrected!

For "MCC" read "An Bord Pleanala"...from what I understand, these are the people who put the boot in, on the basis that they feared another ghost estate.

This, despite the fact that the houses were selling reasonably well, and were more or less being built "hand to mouth".

And the same builder has built similar houses, seemingly unhindered, in the Rathcoole/Newcastle area of Co. Dublin.