Larry Murphy being released....

panda100

Does it bother you?

There's been so much media attention about this man being released from prison, you can't walk into a shops or turn on the tv without seeing the screaming headlines warning us of this rapist on the streets again.

I can't say his release has had any impact on me whatsoever. As far as I'm concerned this individual has paid his debt to society and its of know benefit to anyone how the press is hounding him at the moment.

It sickens me though, not that this man is released, but that the media can be so too faced in its reporting and analysis of sexual assault. It individualises rape to one person, Larry Murphy, without questioning why such brutal attacks on women are so commonplace in our society.

The paper that has disgusted me the most is 'The Sun', which seems to have gone on some sort of moral crusade against this man, hounding his every move and describing in grotesque detail every thing he did to his victims. Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

What are the Ladies view on the Larry Murphy release?

bette

His behaviour may not impact on you but I would be interested in his victim's take on it. He is also suspect in the disappearance of other victims.

hobochris

The reason why this particular rapist has been getting so much attention is that he refused to take part in any rehabilitation program and has shown no remorse yet he has been released on good behaviour(really it is due to overcrowding).

This man should never have seen freedom again for what it did and his actions after.

WindSock

Larry Murphy is the latest incantation of the bogeyman. His name can be used to scare people into a big frenzy. I find the hype highly amusing. Of course it was safe to leave your doors unlocked and walk down dark alleyways only just a week ago.

caseyann

I am not a huge fan of the media as is,and they are just trying to sell their newspapers.Thats their job.They hound drug dealers etc...
He doesn't deserve any kind of privacy or diplomacy from anyone.
Served his debt to society is one of the many words of justice i hate.He didnt serve his debt to that poor woman.
On top of that,the latest is he was working in Deirdre Jacobs Grandmothers shop around time she died.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/New-evidence-of-Larry-Murphys-link-to-killing-100753174.html

I personally dont think the lynch mobs are a smart thing,and should not lower themselves to give him so much attention.
For the level of his and so many others crimes such as Micheal Murray etc.. He and they should not be back on the streets.

I read an article and you are right about the mass hysteria of describing over and over again what he had done to that poor woman.But then again alot of women were not old enough to know about what he did,and some were not even in the country.So his crime should be shown so women are in no doubt what his abilities are.

me_right_one

panda100 wrote: »

Does it bother you?

I can't say his release has had any impact on me whatsoever. As far as I'm concerned this individual has paid his debt to society and its of know benefit to anyone how the press is hounding him at the moment.

But he didnt. He would have killed that girl but for the fact he was disturbed. He intended to murder her. But he didnt get jailed for murder, just rape, (and I say "just" with obvious acknowledgement of the horrific extent of the rape) so he got lucky. The fuse has been quenched, but the bomb is still live.

panda100

panda100 wrote: »

Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

Did you really have to put in this line?

Anyway, I don't know. I think the hysteria is a bit much but being aware and cautious is always a good thing. I don't think he's the first nor will he be the last

Xiney

panda100 wrote: »

Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

I assure you it has nothing to do with that.

Fox McCloud

The reason the press are going mad and lynch mobs are flying around after him is because no one thinks he has served his debt to society. The justice system is total bollox in this country, its a protest againt the people who let a would-be murdering rapist out early cause he didnt stab anyone in prison. He's never even said sorry for christsake!

Violent crime, drug dealing etc. all get low enough sentences and get left out early then on top of that. The only thing that seems to get heavy sentences in fraud(esp tax fraud, wonder why..)The rights of criminals are held higher than the rights of victims by most of the judges in this country. I'm all for rehabilitation over punishment for crime but this guy hasn't been rehabilitated, and they've sent him out of prision early anyway. What does this tell him about the justice system in Ireland? Try not to get caught next time, but if you do get caught keep your head down and you'll be out again in no time

monkeyfudge

I think the mob rule that seems to be getting encouraged by the media is far more damaging to society that a solitary rapist. It's the same thing we saw with the head shops.

Miss Dymph

The only way Larry Murphy will ever pay his debt to society is by turning back time and reversing his actions.....and since that will never happen, he will never repay his debt to society. He is a brutal rapist who knew exactly what he was doing in committing his crime and who is refusing to co-operate as regards the disappearances of countless other women. I do not agree with the media frenzy in chasing and hounding him, however due to the fact that he stalked his victim for a full month before bundling her in his car, i do think the Gardai should have tagged him as the public have a right to know in what region he is in. He was released as a high risk re-offender and i think it is naive to think otherwise. He justified his crime as 'just flipped out'...whats to stop him 'just flipping out' again?

Callan57

Of course I'm concerned about his release but I am equally concerned about the 'perverts' walking around freely whose faces we will never see on the front of The Sun or any other paper.

From the reports of the last few years we, of all people, should know that the greatest threat may be from the highly respectable living amongst us!

Teferi

panda100 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned this individual has paid his debt to society and its of know benefit to anyone how the press is hounding him at the moment.

He never wanted and refused all offers of treatment. While he served his sentence, he done little but sit in a cell for 10 years. The problem he went to prison for was not corrected and I would bet he will offend again.

That said, the media attention given to him was ridiculous and the usual rags wrote the vitriol I expected that will encourage the mob. The only good thing was that his face was plastered everywhere so that everyone knows who he is.

panda100 wrote: »

Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

No way. It's only Hunky Dory adverts that cause rape...

Maguined

I do not think rape is commonplace today, well more specifically it is not more commonplace today than it has been in the past thanks to the better technologies and methods of modern police forces compared to the dark ages when there would be nothing much you could do after the incident apart from eye witnesses.

This man in particular has been singled out because he has shown absolutely no remorse at all towards his victims, basically he is sheer scum and the fact he is walking the streets and is likely to re-offend scares the average person because there is nothing stopping him from moving into your own local area.

Rape has nothing to do with sexuality expressed in the media, it existed before modern media dissemination and in probably greater numbers in the past. it just seems more common because the media reports on cases from all over the country while before you might have only heard of local incidents.

panda100

caseyann wrote: »

.But then again alot of women were not old enough to know about what he did,and some were not even in the country.So his crime should be shown so women are in no doubt what his abilities are.

I admit I don't know the ins and out of the case.

I tend not to read these types of reports in papers as I think theres something sadistic about reading the horrific abuse suffered by another human being.
Why do women need to know or read what he did?
Will it prevent the same from happening to them? I doubt it somehow. I can only see it giving ammunition and inspiration for someone else to go out and do the same thing.

bluewolf wrote: »

Did you really have to put in this line?

Yes, because I think we should be focusing on why rape and this horrific abuse of women happens rather than focusing on one individual.
Obviously there is a myriad of reasons why sexual abuse occurs but usually its about power and devaluing someone so there nothing more than an object for your pleasure.

angelxx

I must say the release of Larry Murhy has impacted me too a certain degree. I'm suddenly
more aware of my safety, not walking alone in isolated areas. Three female members of my family are now quite afraid too walk alone with their dogs. The fact thst he refused rehabilitation and is highly suspected in other cases is extremely worrying for women. Yes without a doubt the press coverage has been manic but I think women have a right to know that a dangerous predator like that is on our streets. He has shown no remorse which implies he would strike again. Considering he only served ten years for the brutal attack on a young woman makes you question the justice system, released on good behaviour given his refusal of treatment and the nature of his crimes just seems terribly wrong too me.

Ash.J.Williams

There are several hundred larry murphys walking around the streets of Ireland right now. Some have struck before, some have been to jail and have been released, and some haven't struck at all yet. Also while we are focussing on Larry the attention is distracting from the case of the missing women. I think Larry has questions to answer for Jacob, Mcarrick and Dollard, however let's not forget that there are more missing women and more killers on the loose.

caseyann

panda100 wrote: »

I admit I don't know the ins and out of the case. I tend not to read these types of reports in papers as I think theres something sadistically about reading the horrific abuse suffered by another human being.
Why do women need to know or read what he did?
Will it prevent the same from happening to them? I doubt it somehow. I can only see it giving ammunition and inspiration for someone else to go out and do the same thing.

Yeah you are better not reading them most of time.Pretty gruesome.Its only sadistic if you enjoy it and show no disgust or empathy for that person.
Because there is alot of women who will not be aware of his extent of torture he put that woman through and sometimes the horror makes women more aware,it could happen to them.
It wouldnt give ammunition to someone who doesnt already have the tendencies.

jellie

I had never heard anything about Larry Murphy until a few months ago when there was a piece on some tv show (cant even remember what one) & its quite a horrific & terrifying story.

I have no problem with the media telling every detail of the story. Yes he has been in prison but from what Ive read he shows no remorse for his crime. So where is the harm in making people aware of it?

You could argue that it is scaremongering but im sure there are many people around the country capable of what he did, so if it scares people into being a bit more sensible, then what harm? I know girls who have no problem walking around dublin (or wherever) at night alone when noone knows where they are, and yes some places are relatively safe but some arent and you just dont know. Im not saying people should be terrified constantly, but a bit of common sense is needed and if making a big deal of this story will beat some common sense into people then good.

panda100 wrote: »

Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

Do you really believe that? Way to oversimplify the whole thing. Thats actually quite insulting to men - man sees half naked girl, man cant control himself and will force himself on any woman he sees. It reminds me of the argument that if a girl wears a short skirt she has it coming :rolleyes:

me_right_one

jellie wrote: »

Do you really believe that? Way to oversimplify the whole thing. Thats actually quite insulting to men - man sees half naked girl, man cant control himself and will force himself on any woman he sees. It reminds me of the argument that if a girl wears a short skirt she has it coming :rolleyes:

+10000000000

Complete insult to men. But given the relevance to the thread, I see your point. The red-tops are hypocritical about just about anything. So your forgiven:D

neveah

panda100 wrote: »

I admit I don't know the ins and out of the case.

I tend not to read these types of reports in papers as I think theres something sadistic about reading the horrific abuse suffered by another human being.
Why do women need to know or read what he did?
Will it prevent the same from happening to them? I doubt it somehow. I can only see it giving ammunition and inspiration for someone else to go out and do the same thing.



Yes, because I think we should be focusing on why rape and this horrific abuse of women happens rather than focusing on one individual.
Obviously there is a myriad of reasons why sexual abuse occurs but usually its about power and devaluing someone so there nothing more than an object for your pleasure.

You admit you don't know the ins and outs of the case, maybe if you read up about him more you would realise why this is such a big story. I do agree however that the media attention has been excessive and the mob mentality is likely to do more harm than good. However long after this story dies down the media will still follow him so the public will always know where he is and this is not a bad thing in my opinion. If he was in my area I would want to know.

What he did to that woman was horrific, it does make for gruesome reading but I think it should be printed because otherwise people would not realise the full extent of the violence this man subjected his victim to. It was so brutal that you have to wonder about the type of man that would commit a crime like this. He is dangerous. His sentence was too short. If that happened in America he would be in jail for another 10-15 years. The justice system in Ireland is a joke! This is one of the main reasons why there is such uproar, people shouldn't have to worry about this man because he should still be in jail. He refused all counselling and rehabilitation offered so he shouldn't have qualified for 'good behaviour'.

The other thing that scares people is that he is suspected in the cases of other women who have disappeared in the Leinster area. While the guards have no concrete evidence against him, he has refused to answer questions about these disappearances, no other woman has disappeared in the area since he has been in prison and he was known to be in the area where Deirdre Jacobs went missing. People are frightened by the fact that if it was proven that Larry Murphy was indeed involved in these disappearances then that would make him a serial killer. That woman from Carlow would probably be dead if those hunters had not disturbed Larry Murphy so I do not agree with you when you say that he has 'served his debt to society'.

Finally I don't think rape happens because of the page 3 girls in the Sun. Rape is about violence, power and sick individuals! The sentences for rape in this country are far too lenient. It is a serious crime that has far-reaching and everlasting effects on the victim and in my opinion the courts do not hand out adequate sentences. It's so commonplace to hear about rape cases in the news where the rapist got 5 years with 2 years suspended, taking into account their 'good behaviour' they are probably out after a year and half. Just not good enough in my opinion.

Ash.J.Williams

neveah wrote: »

You admit you don't know the ins and outs of the case, maybe if you read up about him more you would realise why this is such a big story. I do agree however that the media attention has been excessive and the mob mentality is likely to do more harm than good. However long after this story dies down the media will still follow him so the public will always know where he is and this is not a bad thing in my opinion. If he was in my area I would want to know.

What he did to that woman was horrific, it does make for gruesome reading but I think it should be printed because otherwise people would not realise the full extent of the violence this man subjected his victim to. It was so brutal that you have to wonder about the type of man that would commit a crime like this. He is dangerous. His sentence was too short. If that happened in America he would be in jail for another 10-15 years. The justice system in Ireland is a joke! This is one of the main reasons why there is such uproar, people shouldn't have to worry about this man because he should still be in jail. He refused all counselling and rehabilitation offered so he shouldn't have qualified for 'good behaviour'.

The other thing that scares people is that he is suspected in the cases of other women who have disappeared in the Leinster area. While the guards have no concrete evidence against him, he has refused to answer questions about these disappearances, no other woman has disappeared in the area since he has been in prison and he was known to be in the area where Deirdre Jacobs went missing. People are frightened by the fact that if it was proven that Larry Murphy was indeed involved in these disappearances then that would make him a serial killer. That woman from Carlow would probably be dead if those hunters had not disturbed Larry Murphy so I do not agree with you when you say that he has 'served his debt to society'.

Finally I don't think rape happens because of the page 3 girls in the Sun. Rape is about violence, power and sick individuals! The sentences for rape in this country are far too lenient. It is a serious crime that has far-reaching and everlasting effects on the victim and in my opinion the courts do not hand out adequate sentences. It's so commonplace to hear about rape cases in the news where the rapist got 5 years with 2 years suspended, taking into account their 'good behaviour' they are probably out after a year and half. Just not good enough in my opinion.

Not quite true, there was an interupted rape in the dublin mountains quite recently, a girl mistakingly got into a civilian car thinking it was a taxi and got a beating before he was disturbed, the guy was from Kerry. I'm sure there was more like that.

panda100

jellie wrote: »

You could argue that it is scaremongering but im sure there are many people around the country capable of what he did, so if it scares people into being a bit more sensible, then what harm? I know girls who have no problem walking around dublin (or wherever) at night alone when noone knows where they are, and yes some places are relatively safe but some arent and you just dont know. Im not saying people should be terrified constantly, but a bit of common sense is needed and if making a big deal of this story will beat some common sense into people then good.

So the onus should be on the women to prevent the rape? Are we saying now that If these women had used a bit more 'common sense' they could have prevented what happened to them?

I think this is why the Larry Murphy hysteria is so damaging as it perpetrates all the common misconceptions about sexual assault.
Your very unlikely to get sexually assaulted down a dark alley or by a complete stranger in Ireland.
I find it very uncomfortable with posts such as this that hints that women are partially responsible for a rape If they walk alone or in a supposed dangerous area.

jellie wrote: »

Do you really believe that? Way to oversimplify the whole thing. Thats actually quite insulting to men - man sees half naked girl, man cant control himself and will force himself on any woman he sees. It reminds me of the argument that if a girl wears a short skirt she has it coming :rolleyes:

I am not saying that Page 3 causes rape. However, I think its a small part of a myriad of things that makes the objectification of women okay in our society. The media has really gone to town with the Larry Murphy case and it struck me as perverted to have a naked teenager coyly sporting a thong slap bang in the middle of the reports of this sadistic rapist. The message that the Sun sends out daily is that Women are to be used sexually for men's pleasure. This is not respecting women as a gender. How can be eradicate violence against women when we still aren't even respected as human beings in the first place?

goat2

he should never be released, should have died in jail,he is a danger to society.his family dont want himhis wife has fled with the childreni do wonder what kind of life she had when he was with her

neveah

Not quite true, there was an interupted rape in the dublin mountains quite recently, a girl mistakingly got into a civilian car thinking it was a taxi and got a beating before he was disturbed, the guy was from Kerry. I'm sure there was more like that.

I don't get what you mean? This man was also disturbed so you don't know what would have happened...

I said that Larry Murphy was a suspect in other disappearances, the guards have no concrete evidence but they haven't been able to completely rule him out either. It may very well be that he had nothing to do with the other crimes. At the moment though people still have suspicions because they haven't caught anyone, it could very well be that man from Kerry posing as a taxi driver, we just don't know. I was simply illustrating why there was such public concern about this man's whereabouts.

In my opinion the sentence Larry Murphy served did not match the crime he committed.

jellie

panda100 wrote: »

So the onus should be on the women to prevent the rape? Are we saying now that If these women had used a bit more 'common sense' they could have prevented what happened to them?

where did i say it was womens fault? dont put words in my mouth.

panda100 wrote: »

I find it very uncomfortable with posts such as this that hints that women are partially responsible for a rape If they walk alone or in a supposed dangerous area.

again, WHAT?! nowhere did i say women were responsible and im highly insulted by you implying that i did.

I said there are dangerous men out there and people should be aware of it and avoid dangerous situations. common sense is all thats required.

dolliemix

panda100 wrote: »

Does it bother you?



Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

What are the Ladies view on the Larry Murphy release?

Good God! That is a really disturbing comment to make! The victims of rape are not glamour models. Larry Murphy's victim was just finished work for the day and getting into her car. It is unbelieveable that you would suggest that there is any correlation between rape and glamour modeling. Glamour models are not forcing themselves physically on anybody. We have a choice to look at those pictures.

The majority of men and women can look at these photos and not feel the urge to force themselves on another human being. It is disturbing that you would think that it might justify a rapists actions.

I think that the media have completely exploited this story. They are more interested in selling newspapers and creating hysteria than protecting women and they are interfering with the work of the gardai in their attempts to survey him.

The law has been a let down in this case. Larry Murphy was sentenced with four charges of rape and one of abduction and he served these concurrently. I think he should have served all charges as charged and not got out of jail until he was 70 or whatever.

Looking at the pictures of him coming out of Arbour Hill, he is still a young and fit man and very capable physically of re-offending. This is wrong.

dfx-

I'd trust women to be aware of their surroundings and aware of him from public spotlight much more than I would trust the Gardai to know what he is up to after the media spotlight has dwindled. So I have no problem with the exploitation of the story or hype. The more people know and the more people talk about him and the case the better.

The stalking of a complete stranger for a month and his calm demeanour separates this case from the rest in my opinion.

caseyann

dfx- wrote: »

I'd trust women to be aware of their surroundings and aware of him from public spotlight much more than I would trust the Gardai to know what he is up to after the media spotlight has dwindled. So I have no problem with the exploitation of the story or hype. The more people know and the more people talk about him and the case the better.

The stalking of a complete stranger for a month and his calm demeanour separates this case from the rest in my opinion.

I read an article some reporter got off the train with him in cork,and shouted his name.People didnt even notice he was on the train with them.And were quite stunned he was.The rest was like fictional writing describing his demeanor and eyes and thoughts through a smile.
I felt i was reading a novel:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/rapist-in-repose-who-went-unnoticed-in-the-crowd-2297972.html

dolliemix

caseyann wrote: »

I read an article some reporter got off the train with him in cork,and shouted his name.People didnt even notice he was on the train with them.And were quite stunned he was.The rest was like fictional writing describing his demeanor and eyes and thoughts through a smile.
I felt i was reading a novel:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/rapist-in-repose-who-went-unnoticed-in-the-crowd-2297972.html

+1

This article was crazy! I had to stop reading it when she described his 'chilling blue eyes'. This journalist just made me think she was getting a very strange kick out of all of this. Describing what Larry Murphy looked like while he was asleep

This kind of journalism just serves to damage the victim more, and also the family of Larry Murphy.

A terrible article. Her purpose was to make readers feel creeped out by LM, when actually I felt completely creeped out by her, her obsession with him and getting so close to him that she could describe which way his head was leaning when he slept. :eek:

donfers

panda100 wrote: »

I am not saying that Page 3 causes rape. However, I think its a small part of a myriad of things that makes the objectification of women okay in our society. The media has really gone to town with the Larry Murphy case and it struck me as perverted to have a naked teenager coyly sporting a thong slap bang in the middle of the reports of this sadistic rapist. The message that the Sun sends out daily is that Women are to be used sexually for men's pleasure. This is not respecting women as a gender. How can be eradicate violence against women when we still aren't even respected as human beings in the first place?

makes it ok in our society - huh?!?, each individual can decide for himself/herself what behaviour s/he deems to be ok.

I think you are overestimating the power/effect/influence of the Sun, most guys I know get it for its sports coverage. The Sun can send out any message it wants but for a message to be effective it must have a tangible effect on the receiver. This may shock you but every guy who buys the sun doesn't automatically then presume that all women are sex objects. As for the last line, that screams of hysteria to me, the very thing you are accusing the media of doing with the Larry Murphy case.

Who are you saying doesn't respect women as human beings?

The Sun? The sun don't really respect anybody so try not to take it to heart.

Society? Really, come on! Women form society.

Men? Yeah there are a few morons here and there but by and large the men I witness and see every day worship women and not just for sex.

I think it's not a good idea to use this Larry Murphy case to try to shoehorn in your own political ideals which I believe relate to the sexualisation of women in the media...I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. Your cause is a noble one but I wouldn't use this particular case to make your points

The_Minister

panda100 wrote: »

The paper that has disgusted me the most is 'The Sun', which seems to have gone on some sort of moral crusade against this man, hounding his every move and describing in grotesque detail every thing he did to his victims. Then one flip over the page and you have a naked women with her legs wide open straddling a chair with her finger in her mouth......Hmmmm I wonder why rape happens :rolleyes:

I know you've been called on this already, but I really think this rubbish should be put to bed.

Islamic countries have much higher rates of rape than Western countries (detection is far lower) even in those places where women wear burkhas from head-to-toe.
In fact, the greater a man's access to porn, the less likely he is to rape. This has been shown over and over again (academic link for the interested: http://www.law.stanford.edu/display/images/dynamic/events_media/Kendall%20cover%20+%20paper.pdf).

There is NO evidence for the porn/nudity-increases-rape argument; in fact, the opposite is true, all evidence we have indicates that these materials reduce the incidence of rape.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well yeah, of course the male dominated sciences are going to try and justify their porn lust.

panda100

jellie wrote: »

where did i say it was womens fault? dont put words in my mouth.

again, WHAT?! nowhere did i say women were responsible and im highly insulted by you implying that i did.

I said there are dangerous men out there and people should be aware of it and avoid dangerous situations. common sense is all thats required.

I apologise If you felt I insulted you, I did not mean to do that all! Sorry I think my writing style just comes across as authoritarian sometimes!

I just genuinely don't understand how these women put themselves in a dangerous situation and could have avoided being sexualy assaulted by this man.
It was completly out of their control. What dangerous situation should they have avoided in order not to be raped and possibly murdered?

There has been at least four posts of posters pointing out that women should be more aware of their surroundings and not put themselves in dangerous situation and use more common sense. There is two things wrong with this logic as far as Im concerned:
1) The majority of violence towards women happens in a safe environment to the victim by a person they know.
2) I find it unsetteling that women must make the responsibility to avoid a possible rape. Surely as a society the responsibility is on all of us,men and women, to determine why sexual violence is so prevalent among us?

By saying women should avoid dangerous situations the onus is on the women to avoid the rape, with men completly absent from the equation, and to me this is just not fair.

The_Minister wrote: »

I know you've been called on this already, but I really think this rubbish should be put to bed.

Islamic countries have much higher rates of rape than Western countries (detection is far lower) even in those places where women wear burkhas from head-to-toe.
In fact, the greater a man's access to porn, the less likely he is to rape. This has been shown over and over again (academic link for the interested: http://www.law.stanford.edu/display/images/dynamic/events_media/Kendall%20cover%20+%20paper.pdf).

There is NO evidence for the porn/nudity-increases-rape argument; in fact, the opposite is true, all evidence we have indicates that these materials reduce the incidence of rape.

I never mentioned Porn, and as a consumer of porn I wouldn't consider Page 3 to be porn at all, unless your looking at it from a very male-centric angle.
Page 3 to me is the objectification and unequal treatment of women as objects in mainstream society, both of which occur in both Muslim and Western countries.
Also I wouldn't equate no porn to higher rape incindence in Muslim countries. Thats more to do with a patriachal dominant religion,as we've seen in this country religious dominance and sexual abuse tend to go hand in hand.

Kimia

In fairness to Panda, I would have read her post a little differently. Not to put words in her mouth, but I truly doubt she meant that if you look a certain way you are going to get raped. I *think* she meant that if certain media continue to objectify women then there's a danger that certain disturbed men may see women as fair game to dominate. However I'm not sure if naked women in any way influence a man's desire to rape, if as evidence suggest, rape is actually about power and not sexual desire, but desire for dominance.

sam34

panda100 wrote: »

There has been at least four posts of posters pointing out that women should be more aware of their surroundings and not put themselves in dangerous situation and use more common sense. There is two things wrong with this logic as far as Im concerned:
1) The majority of violence towards women happens in a safe environment to the victim by a person they know.
2) I find it unsetteling that women must make the responsibility to avoid a possible rape. Surely as a society the responsibility is on all of us,men and women, to determine why sexual violence is so prevalent among us?

By saying women should avoid dangerous situations the onus is on the women to avoid the rape, with men completly absent from the equation, and to me this is just not fair.

i dont think anybody is absolving men completely from responsibility, thats just ridiculous.

but it is reasonable and sensible to take certain precautions, such as not walking alone late at night in dodgy areas, not getting hammered and incapable of taking care of yourself etc

thats not to say in any way, shape or form, that someone who gets raped walking through an unlit alleyway was "asking for it" or "deserved it" in some way. the fault lies with the criminal.

an analogy would be to look at home security... we all have house alarms, all lock the doors when leaving etc. if, one day, you forgot to lock the door and never set the alarm and subsequently got broken into, it would not be the householder's fault. the crime and responsibility for it wouls still lie with the burglar.

nobody is saying the householder has the responsibility of preventing the crime, but still it's not unreasonable to take precautions to reduce the risk of that crime.

The Big Red Button

goat2 wrote: »

i do hope, someone just stops him breathing, it is now the only way people will feel safe,
it scares me what he will do to some young girl on her way home from work

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement, in my opinion.

In all the years he's been in jail, how many young women have been attacked, raped, or murdered?

I don't feel particularly safe walking home from work, as I have twice been mugged (once quite violently, but the other wasn't exactly a picnic either) while walking home from work. In two very different areas.

Oddly enough, Larry Murphy was locked up at the time.

Larry Murphy has enough eyes on him for the foreseeable future, between Gardaí and journalists. I think we're safe enough from that particular threat for the moment.

caseyann

This is a great article about the tagging.
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/andrew-lynch-tagging-would-help-us-tackle-rapists-like-murphy-so-whats-ahern-doing-nothing-2299045.html

Would certainly prove or dis prove whether he or any other was involved in anything and where they are.



I read another one today.Larry Murphy in safe house while considering therapy?
What brought this about,is he reading the statements of he hasnt accepted therapy and thinking to do it.Why now when he had ten years to take it?

RAPIST Larry Murphy is in secure accommodation today after finally agreeing to consider undertaking counselling.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/freed-rapist-murphy-now-in-safe-house-as-he-considers-therapy-2299035.html

Therapy or not i wouldn't be feeling to comfortable around him still.

The Big Red Button

caseyann wrote: »

This is a great article about the tagging.
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/andrew-lynch-tagging-would-help-us-tackle-rapists-like-murphy-so-whats-ahern-doing-nothing-2299045.html

Would certainly prove or dis prove whether he or any other was involved in anything and where they are.



I read another one today.Larry Murphy in safe house while considering therapy?
What brought this about,is he reading the statements of he hasnt accepted therapy and thinking to do it.Why now when he had ten years to take it?

RAPIST Larry Murphy is in secure accommodation today after finally agreeing to consider undertaking counselling.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/freed-rapist-murphy-now-in-safe-house-as-he-considers-therapy-2299035.html

Therapy or not i wouldn't be feeling to comfortable around him still.

OK. I am honestly not even trying to be funny here, I honestly am not, at all. But both of those links are to the Herald. I am not even going to click into them, let alone consider them to be a reliable source. I'm just saying.

caseyann

chatterpillar wrote: »

OK. I am honestly not even trying to be funny here, I honestly am not, at all. But both of those links are to the Herald. I am not even going to click into them, let alone consider them to be a reliable source. I'm just saying.

You dont have to consider them reliable to read lol First one is an attack basically on the failure of Ahern in the matter of tagging.


Tagging is now inter-nationally recognised as a powerful weapon for any modern police force. It began in Britain over a century ago when some released convicts were stamped with indelible ink to warn the public about their criminal history. Today's version uses a tracking device with a global positioning satellite, attached to the ankle or wrist, to warn the authorities when a known offender is behaving suspiciously or revisiting their old haunts.

Lollipops23

OP I don't find porn/page 3 girls degrading at all, and I think men as a gender deserve a bit more credit than to assume they are affected by it that much. I honestly believe that if someone has the potential to become a rapist or sexual sadist, a smutty picture won't be required to push them over the edge. It has no bearing on them whatsoever. That whole point is just moote, IMHO.

I'm no fan of that red tops in general,but I don't think Murphy's treatment has been wrong. The man is suspected (very strongly,as mentioned in other posts) of being a serial rapist/killer. He made concious decisions to rape,humiliate and kill one woman (although he never got around to the last part) so he deserved everything coming to him. He'd be safer if he just confessed to the other women's murders and went back inside.

jellie

panda100 wrote: »

I apologise If you felt I insulted you, I did not mean to do that all! Sorry I think my writing style just comes across as authoritarian sometimes!

ok, thanks for that.

panda100 wrote: »

I just genuinely don't understand how these women put themselves in a dangerous situation and could have avoided being sexualy assaulted by this man.
It was completly out of their control. What dangerous situation should they have avoided in order not to be raped and possibly murdered?

I in no way meant that these women have caused it or could have stopped it by being more careful. What i meant was that there are some situations that are more likely to be dangerous than others and if making a big deal of the case will help women avoid these then its a good thing.

panda100 wrote: »

There has been at least four posts of posters pointing out that women should be more aware of their surroundings and not put themselves in dangerous situation and use more common sense. There is two things wrong with this logic as far as Im concerned:
1) The majority of violence towards women happens in a safe environment to the victim by a person they know.
2) I find it unsetteling that women must make the responsibility to avoid a possible rape. Surely as a society the responsibility is on all of us,men and women, to determine why sexual violence is so prevalent among us?

By saying women should avoid dangerous situations the onus is on the women to avoid the rape, with men completly absent from the equation, and to me this is just not fair.

It is of course not the womans job to "avoid" rape. but all people are saying is to take precautions to not find yourself in a dangerous situation. yes there are situations that will happen in a perfectly safe environment, in someones home, etc., but its not always the case. you dont walk into a safari park and say "ok there might be lions here but the onus is not on me to avoid being savaged by a lion, its on the park", you take precautions like not harassing a lion. & before anyone twists my words, im not saying that walking down a dark alley is harassing a rapist.. just as a precaution, you dont walk down a dark alley alone at night.

sam34 wrote: »

i dont think anybody is absolving men completely from responsibility, thats just ridiculous.

but it is reasonable and sensible to take certain precautions, such as not walking alone late at night in dodgy areas, not getting hammered and incapable of taking care of yourself etc

thats not to say in any way, shape or form, that someone who gets raped walking through an unlit alleyway was "asking for it" or "deserved it" in some way. the fault lies with the criminal.

an analogy would be to look at home security... we all have house alarms, all lock the doors when leaving etc. if, one day, you forgot to lock the door and never set the alarm and subsequently got broken into, it would not be the householder's fault. the crime and responsibility for it wouls still lie with the burglar.

nobody is saying the householder has the responsibility of preventing the crime, but still it's not unreasonable to take precautions to reduce the risk of that crime.

thanks, this says what i was trying to say but in a much clearer way.

For anyone who doesnt know the details of the story heres a version of it - http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/state-to-free-rapist-who-is-huge-threat-to-women-1484538.html

irishconvert

The_Minister wrote: »

Islamic countries have much higher rates of rape than Western countries (detection is far lower) even in those places where women wear burkhas from head-to-toe.

Do you have any proof to back this up?

LittleBook

What "scares" me about Larry Murphy being released is not the threat that he himself poses, but the fact that I live in a country where a person can stalk, kidnap, repeatedly rape and attempt to murder another person, show no remorse whatsoever, serve only 10 years in prison .. .with no attempt at rehabilitation during their term in prison or tracking once they are released.

It's difficult to catch (never mind convict) offenders like Larry Murphy without letting them off a third of their paltry sentence for "good behaviour".

Faith

LittleBook wrote: »

It's difficult to catch (never mind convict) offenders like Larry Murphy without letting them off a third of their paltry sentence for "good behaviour".

The more I think about this, the more I think that "good behaviour" shouldn't be keeping your nose clean in jail. It should be showing remorse for your crimes, talking part in therapy and rehabilitation, and generally showing that you've changed during your time in jail. Plenty of criminals are well brought up, polite people who'll have no trouble keeping their nose clean in jail. Larry Murphy is a prime demonstration that good behaviour does not equal not going to be a danger to society any more.

LittleBook

Faith wrote: »

The more I think about this, the more I think that "good behaviour" shouldn't be keeping your nose clean in jail. It should be showing remorse for your crimes, talking part in therapy and rehabilitation, and generally showing that you've changed during your time in jail. Plenty of criminals are well brought up, polite people who'll have no trouble keeping their nose clean in jail. Larry Murphy is a prime demonstration that good behaviour does not equal not going to be a danger to society any more.

Absolutely. Unfortunately I believe the "good behaviour" system is being used to relieve the over-crowding in prisons and doesn't actually mean anything anymore.

I'd much rather see my taxes going to a well-run prison system than a badly-run bank.

Teferi

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well yeah, of course the male dominated sciences are going to try and justify their porn lust.

The best part of this thread.

panda100

LittleBook wrote: »

What "scares" me about Larry Murphy being released is not the threat that he himself poses, but the fact that I live in a country where a person can stalk, kidnap, repeatedly rape and attempt to murder another person, show no remorse whatsoever, serve only 10 years in prison .. .with no attempt at rehabilitation during their term in prison or tracking once they are released.

It's difficult to catch (never mind convict) offenders like Larry Murphy without letting them off a third of their paltry sentence for "good behaviour".

The low rape conviction rate in this county is a disgrace, It should be that when a women is raped she can put her faith in the justice system to help her.
I agree that 10 years is too short for the crime commited.

I agree with Faith 100%. I know in the states 'good behaviour' means going to mass,reading the bible and the priest putting a good word in for you to the parole board. I presume its similar in Ireland.

Jellie wrote:

just as a precaution, you dont walk down a dark alley alone at night.

But the women he attacked were not walking down a dark alley alone at night as far as im aware?

Why are we repeating this phrase blindly like it means something?
The women couldn't do ANYTHING to prevent the rape themselves. Women do not get attacked down dark alley's except ina very insignificant,tiny number of cases. Its completly irrelevant saying that women need to protect themselves because more than likely they will get raped in a place known to them and by someone known to them.

LittleBook

panda100 wrote: »

The low rape conviction rate in this county is a fallcy

Afraid not.

Rape and Justice in Ireland

Of the one third of all rape complaints that actually make it to court, only 7% are convicted.

panda100 wrote: »

more than likely they will get raped in a place known to them and by someone known to them.

Irish Times Article on the Report

The report also found that cases which fit a narrow stereotype – in which a person is attacked by a stranger in a public place – are more likely to be prosecuted.

However, it also showed that in two-thirds of reported rape cases the rapist is known to the victim and it takes place in private.

If the rape does not conform to this stereotype the victim will not generally be believed and will decide not to report, Ms Neary said.

jellie

panda100 wrote: »

But the women he attacked were not walking down a dark alley alone at night as far as im aware?

Why are we repeating this phrase blindly like it means something?
The women couldn't do ANYTHING to prevent the rape themselves. Women do not get attacked down dark alley's except ina very insignificant,tiny number of cases.

ok youre totally missing my point.

never once did i say the women could have prevented their rape. rape is a horrific crime and in no way the womans fault and i have never once said it was, which you seem to be implying that i am saying.

my original point that has gotten lost in all of this was that i do not see the harm in raising awareness of the case if it will help women be more aware of their personal safety.

panda100 wrote: »

Its completly irrelevant saying that women need to protect themselves because more than likely they will get raped in a place known to them and by someone known to them.

its not irrelevant. it happens. where is the harm in being careful?

DeltaC

panda100 wrote: »

Its completly irrelevant saying that women need to protect themselves because more than likely they will get raped in a place known to them and by someone known to them.

True, but that hardly negates the advantages of taking every precaution to minimise the risk of "disappearing" at the hands of someone like Larry Murphy. Exposure to the risk of more conventional (and survivable) patterns of rape confers no additional immunity to this.

Best case scenario, is, of course, to completely avoid both, but if I had to choose I know which one I would prefer to avoid.