Fianna Fáil in Northern Ireland.

deise go deo

FROM WIKIPEDIA.

On 17 September 2007 Fianna Fáil announced that the party would, for the first time, organise in Northern Ireland.
Foreign Minister, Dermot Ahern, is to chair a committee on the matter: "In the period ahead Dermot Ahern will lead efforts to develop that strategy for carrying through this policy, examining timescales and structures. We will act gradually and strategically. We are under no illusions. It will not be easy. It will challenge us all. But I am confident we will succeed," [5]
The party embarked on its first ever recruitment drive north of the border on the 25th and 26th of September in northern universities, and established two 'Political Societies', the William Drennan Cumann in Queens University, Belfast, and the Watty Graham Cumann in UU Magee, Derry.
Bertie Ahern announced on 7 December 2007 that Fianna Fáil had been registered in Northern Ireland by the UK Electoral Commission.[6] There has been speculation about an eventual merger with the Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP),[7] formerly the main Irish nationalist party in the Northern ireland, but now smaller than Sinn Féin. This has been met with a mixed reaction with former Deputy Leader of the SDLP, Seamus Mallon, stating he would be opposed to any such merger. On 23 February 2008, it was announced that a former UUP councillor, Colonel Harvey Bicker, had joined FF.[8]
The 2009 Ardfheis announced the establishment of Fianna Fáil Fora across Northern Ireland, initially on a County-by-County basis. The first formally established Forum is the Armagh Forum, subsequently fora have been established in Counties Down and Fermanagh, further organisation continues. This Ardfheis also elected Mark Hughes, a member from Armagh, to the Party's Ard Chomhairle (National Executive).
In November 2009, at the National Youth Conference in Bundoran, Ógra Fianna Fáil decided to add the position of Northern Representative to the committee to reflect the organisations 32 county status.
On the 22nd July 2010 Taoiseach Brian Cowen opened the first Fianna Fail office in the town of Crossmaglen. The event was visited by several high profile TD's.

I am looking for Northern Ireland peoples view on this.
Do you think it is a good devlopment?

If not, why not?
Personally I think it is good because I think over time they will eat into the SF vote.

muffler

If you want this moved to the politics forum drop me a PM.

Thread locked.

ninty9er

deise go deo wrote: »

Do you think it is a good devlopment?

If not, why not?

Why not ask "if so, why?"

There is an entire negativity built up around Fianna Fáil, that should be directed at every other party if it is to be directed at Fianna Fáil, as there is very little difference in the operation of any party on this island.

paky

I dont think the people in ni would be gullible enough to vote for these criminals

menoscemo

I can't imagine anyone in NI voting for FF. What are they offering us?

PeterIanStaker

FF in NI? that'd be interesting. They'd ruin everything without firing a shot. FF arent a "nationalist" party by the way, maybe they should rename themselves Me Fein?

CokaColumbo

Where was Fianna Fail for the past 30 years?

Personally, I do not welcome another Nationalist party in the six counties. At a time when Unionists are suffering from the woes of a split electoral vote, I do not think it is wise to create the conditions for the same disunity amongst Nationalists in the future.
The DUP and UUP are both considering some sort of future alliance at the moment. If Nationalists want to remain dominant in Stormont then the introduction of new parties should be avoided, as it will invariably lead to fragmented Nationalist representation.

bmaxi

The defenders of FF always harp on with the same old refrain, "they're all the same". That's as may be but we have no evidence of it.
What we do have is evidence that FF is a contaminant, every public body in the state is built up around the same standards. We have a lazy, ill disciplined police force, a fat over fed public service, a regulatory system that doesn't regulate, a statute book that could capsize Titanic but criminals walking the streets, and so on ad infinitum. This is due in no small measure to the nod and wink culture of FF, where high standards are non existent and the aim is "get what you can, while you can".
I think the people of NI have suffered enough, why in God's name would they want to inflict this on themselves.

murphaph

menoscemo wrote: »

I can't imagine anyone in NI voting for FF. What are they offering us?

Corruption, shady dealings with land rezoning, dodgy short term economic policies that will result in massive housing costs and ultimately a huge property crash, no ethics whatsoever, claiming "expenses" hand over fist, even going so far as to submit fake invoices to do so.......what more could you want?

Seriously: look at the difference between the NI electorate and ours. Robinson, despite being a stalwart of unionism for 30 odd years and First Minister, was deposed of his seat as soon as revelations of something "iffy" came to light. In the republic we'd have re-elected him with a landslide majority.

delta720

murphaph wrote: »

.......what more could you want?

Party members involved in Protection Rackets(from shops to drug dealers), gaining finances from cross-boarder smuggling, a more hands on approach with the banks....

You talk about expenses scandle...try IRA Army Council scandle and young Martin is still there...

You can't even compare the politics in the two countries!

murphaph

delta720 wrote: »

Party members involved in Protection Rackets(from shops to drug dealers), gaining finances from cross-boarder smuggling, a more hands on approach with the banks....

You talk about expenses scandle...try IRA Army Council scandle and young Martin is still there...

You can't even compare the politics in the two countries!

The North's politics seems to be improving, ours is going the other way with more expenses scandals appearing daily. My point still stands...the north needs FF like a hole in the head.

Nodin

deise go deo wrote: »

Personally I think it is good because I think over time they will eat into the SF vote.

You'd have to quantify "over time".

In 50 years time, (after much wild speculative talk about a rebranded resurgent FF), sure why not. Realistically and for the forseeable future, however, theres not a hope.

Einhard

paky wrote: »

I dont think the people in ni would be gullible enough to vote for these criminals

I presume you're being sarcastic?

KeithAFC

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Where was Fianna Fail for the past 30 years?

Personally, I do not welcome another Nationalist party in the six counties. At a time when Unionists are suffering from the woes of a split electoral vote, I do not think it is wise to create the conditions for the same disunity amongst Nationalists in the future.
The DUP and UUP are both considering some sort of future alliance at the moment. If Nationalists want to remain dominant in Stormont then the introduction of new parties should be avoided, as it will invariably lead to fragmented Nationalist representation.

Nationalists dominate stormont?

Wolfe Tone

I would be against this as it could spit the nationalist vote and we could potentially be in a position of infighting like the unionists are now. Anyway, FF would just be a corrupt SDLP.

yoshytoshy

ninty9er wrote: »

Why not ask "if so, why?"

There is an entire negativity built up around Fianna Fáil, that should be directed at every other party if it is to be directed at Fianna Fáil, as there is very little difference in the operation of any party on this island.

Fianna fail is the monsters daddy ,like it or not.

Iwasfrozen

Anything that takes votes away from Sinn Fein is to be welcomed in my opinion.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Anything that takes votes away from Sinn Fein is to be welcomed in my opinion.

Why? Have the nationalist vote split, hence lose nationalist seats to the unionists? What would that accomplish?

Foxhound38

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why? Have the nationalist vote split, hence lose nationalist seats to the unionists? What would that accomplish?

Less murderers getting rewarded with positions of power?

Wolfe Tone

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Less murderers getting rewarded with positions of power?

Nice cheap shot there.

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Nice cheap shot there.

Cheap but true. I'd rather see more moderate nationalists in power and Fianna Fail may fill the gap that was left by the SDLP's horrible performance in the polls.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Cheap but true. I'd rather see more moderate nationalists in power and Fianna Fail may fill the gap that was left by the SDLP's horrible performance in the polls.

Well I am not going to get into a debate about the troubles here, but all FF would do is to take votes away from nationalists(many seats were won by small numbers) and result in more unionists in power.

Trevor451

They cant even do a good job in the Republic :rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Well I am not going to get into a debate about the troubles here, but all FF would do is to take votes away from nationalists(many seats were won by small numbers) and result in more unionists in power.

Well, that's democracy.

Iwasfrozen

I wonder would they take up their seats in the commons?

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well, that's democracy.

So you would like to see more unionists taking seats then?

Tell me this, what does FF offer that the SDLP don't?

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So you would like to see more unionists taking seats then?

I like to see democracy working.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Tell me this, what does FF offer that the SDLP don't?

A professional political vote grabbing machine.

Wolfe Tone

TBH I doubt that many will even vote for FF with the mess they made down south. But enough may to damage the nationalist vote.

Amazotheamazing

ninty9er wrote: »

Why not ask "if so, why?"

There is an entire negativity built up around Fianna Fáil, that should be directed at every other party if it is to be directed at Fianna Fáil, as there is very little difference in the operation of any party on this island.

Proof please?

Fianna Fail have been shown time and time again to be both corrupt and incompetent, can you prove the same for all the other parties?

It's an absolute mystery to me why people in the South continue to vote Fianna Fail, but on the otherhand, I despise SF, so hopefully the move up north will weaken both parties.

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

TBH I doubt that many will even vote for FF with the mess they made down south. But enough may to damage the nationalist vote.

With any hope it will push Sinn Fein as much into obscurity in the North as they are in the South.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

With any hope it will push Sinn Fein as much into obscurity in the North as they are in the South.

I highly doubt that that will happen. You can't just walk into the norths politics and take over.

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I highly doubt that that will happen. You can't just walk into the norths politics and take over.

True, it could take a while, if it happens.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

True, it could take a while, if it happens.

I wonder, as the "Republican Party" how high up a UI will be on their list?

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wonder, as the "Republican Party" how high up a UI will be on their list?

I would imagine quite high, they were are De Valera's party after all.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would imagine quite high, they were are De Valera's party after all.

Well it is not exactly very high atm is it?

rightwingdub

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would imagine quite high, they were are De Valera's party after all.

FF executed more Republicans than the Unionist government did during WW2, FF are a partitionist party who don't care less about the Nationalist community in the North, they have done very little for the ntaionalist community since partition, unfortunately there may be some gullible people who actually believe FF are a Republican party.

Wolfe Tone

Well they supplied some money and some arms. Well Haughey did. Although I am not sure if that was benificial.

rightwingdub

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Well they supplied some money and some arms. Well Haughey did. Although I am not sure if that was benificial.

Haughey also established military courts in the early 60's when he was Minister for Justice, Haughey had very little interest in the North up until the time when the troubles exploded. Devalera brought in military courts in the 30's as well and executed Republicans, FF area an anti-Republican party who only care about themselves and always like to pretend to be Republican when they are in electoral trouble.

Iwasfrozen

rightwingdub wrote: »

FF executed more Republicans than the Unionist government did during WW2, FF are a partitionist party who don't care less about the Nationalist community in the North, they have done very little for the ntaionalist community since partition, unfortunately there may be some gullible people who actually believe FF are a Republican party.

What do you expect them to do? The majority of people in the north want it to remain part of the U.K. Untill that changes there is nothing that can be done.

Wolfe Tone

Thats why I laugh when I hear them calling themselves "The Repulican Party"

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What do you expect them to do? The majority of people in the north want it to remain part of the U.K. Untill that changes there is nothing that can be done.

Thats the in built artificial majority you refer to of course? Shame they never took that into account with regard to Tyrone and Fermanagh.

rightwingdub

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What do you expect them to do? The majority of people in the north want it to remain part of the U.K. Untill that changes there is nothing that can be done.

When DeValera was in power he wasn't exactly overly concerned about the levels of discrimination that existed in the Nationalist community who were 2nd class citizens from its inception in 1920, in 1969 Lynch did nothing, big deal he set up a few military hospitals in Donegal.

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats the in built artificial majority you refer to of course? Shame they never took that into account with regard to Tyrone and Fermanagh.

That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people in the north don't want to join the republic and untill that changes there is nothing Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein can do.

dlofnep

deise go deo wrote: »

If not, why not?
Personally I think it is good because I think over time they will eat into the SF vote.

They wouldn't touch the SF voter-base. IF anything, they would take votes from the SDLP. And a very limited few at that. There was talks of the SDLP & FF going into a pact - But I think that has been squashed recently.

Sinn Féin has done a great amount of work for the nationalist community in the North. I don't see why it would be a good thing for the likes of FF to take their votes (not that they would).

Iwasfrozen

rightwingdub wrote: »

When DeValera was in power he wasn't exactly overly concerned about the levels of discrimination that existed in the Nationalist community who were 2nd class citizens from its inception in 1920, in 1969 Lynch did nothing, big deal he set up a few military hospitals in Donegal.

That had absolutely no relation to the piece of my post you quoted.

rightwingdub

dlofnep wrote: »

They wouldn't touch the SF voter-base. IF anything, they would take votes from the SDLP. And a very limited few at that. There was talks of the SDLP & FF going into a pact - But I think that has been squashed recently.

Sinn Féin has done a great amount of work for the nationalist community in the North. I don't see why it would be a good thing for the likes of FF to take their votes (not that they would).

Well if I was living in the North, I wouldn't touch FF with a bargepole.

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people in the north don't want to join the republic and untill that changes there is nothing Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein can do.

Sure they can, they can develop a framework to ease unification. They can also work on bringing both communities together, ending sectarianism. It's not going to be something that happens over night - It's something that will happen gradually, with the proper work on the ground done beforehand.

dlofnep

rightwingdub wrote: »

Well if I was living in the North, I wouldn't touch FF with a bargepole.

Neither would I. And most people would be wise to stay clear. Sinn Féin received more votes in the last elections than any other party, be it nationalist or unionist. They have worked on behalf of the nationalist community for decades, and the nationalist community acknowledges that. There is absolutely no hope of Fianna Fáil taking that voter-base at ay point in the near future.

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

Sure they can, they can develop a framework to ease unification. They can also work on bringing both communities together, ending sectarianism. It's not going to be something that happens over night - It's something that will happen gradually, with the proper work on the ground done beforehand.

They can't develope a framework as you call it to ease re-unification if the majority of people in the north are against the idea.

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They can't develope a framework as you call it to ease re-unification if the majority of people in the north are against the idea.

Of course they can. You're conflating two separate issues. Working on policies that would ease the process of unification, and unification itself are two different issues.

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

Of course they can. You're conflating two separate issues. Working on policies that would ease the process of unification, and unification itself are two different issues.

What sort of policies are you talking about? I imagine if they tried anything even approching re-unification without the consent of the electorate the British government would step in to put an end to it.