Advice for anyone trying to get into a job in forex trading?

gnr2206

Many people come onto boards/forums like this a post question such " How do i get rich from trading" etc. But something ive never seen is a thread by anyone posing questions looking for advice for what degree is best to get the job you want.

Just say you want to be a trading; what degree (in uk or ireland) i best suited?
-How does the Finance and Economics from UCD degree hold up?

Is mathemathics very necessary or is it a certain type of personality?

Any advice would be helpful for seasoned forex veterns; thanks!

douglashyde

Studying Acturial Studies. UCD, DCU etc.

gnr2206

douglashyde wrote: »

Studying Acturial Studies. UCD, DCU etc.

Im not gonna lie; my maths skills are far from mystifying but i have a deep interest in the financial markets and try to find out as much information about it as possible. I would be looking to go into discretionary forex trading if possible as i prefer the forex market.

Does anyone here work for a trading firm? Could you let me know whats what.

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

Many people come onto boards/forums like this a post question such " How do i get rich from trading" etc. But something ive never seen is a thread by anyone posing questions looking for advice for what degree is best to get the job you want.

Just say you want to be a trading; what degree (in uk or ireland) i best suited?
-How does the Finance and Economics from UCD degree hold up?

Is mathemathics very necessary or is it a certain type of personality?

Any advice would be helpful for seasoned forex veterns; thanks!

First of all I'd like to note that I'm far from a seasoned trader but I have done a LOT of research into the subject as it's something I would like to get into.

From what I've found out so far, the desired qualities are:

• Competitiveness
• A solid mathematical/quantitave background. You don't necessarily have to be able to do complex equations, the type of thing that is required is quick mental arithmetic.
• A desire to become a trader. You have to be able to show that you really want to become a trader. The best way to do so IMO is to show a genuine interest in the subject by reading as much as you can on the subject and actually trading your own account (be it demo or otherwise)

In terms of degrees, the best ones I've been told were a Masters in Finance/Quantitative Finance. Anything in that kind of area is a good start. I know theres a few good courses out there at the moment in DCU, UCD, Trinity and UL.

From what I've heard the UCD course is pretty good. However, the number of trading jobs in Dublin is in the double digit range so you'd want to give yourself as much leverage as you can for applying for these type of jobs.

I've been reading the I and M forum for about 2 years now and I can't say I ever remember anyone posting questions such as "How do I get rich from trading". There used to be a few posts about how to become a trader a while back, you might be able to do a search and root them out.

Idu posted a great thread in the leaving cert forum a while back that you might want to have a look at. AFAIK he came from a commerce degree in UCD. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055738712
I'd also check out a few trading forums like www.trade2win.com and check out the beginners sections. Check out posts by a lad called trader_dante, he's written some great posts for people beginning to trade.

The forum has become a bit dead of late with a lot of the good posters getting fed up arguing with people in the AIB/BOI threads. If you hang around here long enough you'll get to realise who the good posters are and you can benefit from their expertise. I've PM'd a few of them and they've all been extremely helpful (cheers lads).

This has turned into a bit of a rant and I'm sure I've forgotten a few things that a few of the more experienced heads in here can help me out with and maybe correct me on. Feel free to ask anything else and I'll do my best to help you out. I am in the same position after all

mono627

Here's this thread from trader_dante I was talking about.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-career-advice/30213-advice-getting-job-trading.html

I'd also read a few trading journals while you're on the site if I was you.

gnr2206

mono627 wrote: »

Here's this thread from trader_dante I was talking about.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-career-advice/30213-advice-getting-job-trading.html

I'd also read a few trading journals while you're on the site if I was you.

im on trade 2 win; its an excellent forum imo

im considering doing finance and economics in UCD; i guy from around where i live (dont know him really) is working in london now for goldman sachs and did that degree

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

im on trade 2 win; its an excellent forum imo

im considering doing finance and economics in UCD; i guy from around where i live (dont know him really) is working in london now for goldman sachs and did that degree

Get in touch with him! It's all about who you know, not what you know! Then PM me his email address so I can pick his brain

Are you only starting your degree?

gnr2206

mono627 wrote: »

Get in touch with him! It's all about who you know, not what you know! Then PM me his email address so I can pick his brain

Are you only starting your degree?

i have no clue how to find him tbh but ill try ha

yeah i am doing my leaving certificate this year

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

i have no clue how to find him tbh but ill try ha

yeah i am doing my leaving certificate this year

Fair play to you, I would have loved to have known what I wanted to do at your age. Best of luck with the LC and hopefully a few more posters can give you some more advice. As I said already, if you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

gnr2206

mono627 wrote: »

Fair play to you, I would have loved to have known what I wanted to do at your age. Best of luck with the LC and hopefully a few more posters can give you some more advice. As I said already, if you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

Thank you for replying; helped greatly!

I want to know is there anyways that i could possible perpare for trading besides demo account (i have one)??

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

Thank you for replying; helped greatly!

I want to know is there anyways that i could possible perpare for trading besides demo account (i have one)??

Yep, there certainly is! And it mainly involves doing as much reading as you can. Ixus started a sticky thread there recently about relevant books and websites, here's the link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055892970

Not all books/websites will apply to trading but you should be able to pick out the most relevant one's yourself.

If I had to recommend some books I would recommend Liar's Poker, Reminisces of a Stock Operator, Market Wizards 1 and 2 and A Random Walk Down Wall Street. I'd nearly consider these the "core" books on trading if you will (speaking like a seasoned trader which I'm not). Certainly wouldn't recommend looking for a trading job until you have these under your belt. Just a note on Liar's Poker, it won't actually teach you anything about trading, but it will give you a good insight into what trading used to be like. It's also pretty funny, so I'd defo recommend it!

gnr2206

mono627 wrote: »

Yep, there certainly is! And it mainly involves doing as much reading as you can. Ixus started a sticky thread there recently about relevant books and websites, here's the link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055892970

Not all books/websites will apply to trading but you should be able to pick out the most relevant one's yourself.

If I had to recommend some books I would recommend Liar's Poker, Reminisces of a Stock Operator, Market Wizards 1 and 2 and A Random Walk Down Wall Street. I'd nearly consider these the "core" books on trading if you will (speaking like a seasoned trader which I'm not). Certainly wouldn't recommend looking for a trading job until you have these under your belt. Just a note on Liar's Poker, it won't actually teach you anything about trading, but it will give you a good insight into what trading used to be like. It's also pretty funny, so I'd defo recommend it!

ill have a look at liar's poker. I heard of reminsices of a sotck operator;thats about the famous jess jameson or something i forget his name

I had a gawlk at market wizards in a book shop in dawson street; seemed like a great read i must purchase!

I persume team sport are thing i should take up in college yes?

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

ill have a look at liar's poker. I heard of reminsices of a sotck operator;thats about the famous jess jameson or something i forget his name

I had a gawlk at market wizards in a book shop in dawson street; seemed like a great read i must purchase!

I persume team sport are thing i should take up in college yes?

Haha no worries, it's based on Jesse Livermore.

Completely forgot to mention to brush up on your programming skills, C++ is a must. I know a few traders who know little or no programming but I've heard it's a skill most employers will look for these days.

I don't know if team sports is something that will benefit you in your trading career (unless you want to use it to show your competitiveness). But nonetheless I'd highly recommend doing team sports....I've played footy the whole way through college and you can't beat it for banter! Get involved in college as much as you can...best years of your life!

gnr2206

mono627 wrote: »

Haha no worries, it's based on Jesse Livermore.

Completely forgot to mention to brush up on your programming skills, C++ is a must. I know a few traders who know little or no programming but I've heard it's a skill most employers will look for these days.

I don't know if team sports is something that will benefit you in your trading career (unless you want to use it to show your competitiveness). But nonetheless I'd highly recommend doing team sports....I've played footy the whole way through college and you can't beat it for banter! Get involved in college as much as you can...best years of your life!

im way ahead of you; started learning a while ago :P ha

ah yeah cant beat (pronounced in laois:bay-ate lol) the banter; i enjoy a bit of soccer tbh good laugh!


btw are you working as a trader or just have a general interest?

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

btw are you working as a trader or just have a general interest?

Hopefully in the not so distant future I will be , but for the moment I'm still a student just about to start a Masters in Finance. Just after finishing my undergrad.

D-Generate

Don't dismiss the need to network. From those I know working in London as traders, a lot of them got their interviews through network contacts. That is why you will find so many people with backgrounds in say Art History from Oxford working in top-tier IBs. I don't doubt that they are capable but just saying that few of these people actually fit the job spec to get the first interview.

Basically if your university holds careers fairs go to anyone where IBs will be there and talk talk talk. Get a few business cards, go home and email them the next day to thank them for talking to you and say that you will be applying for an upcoming grad program/internship etc. Cast the net wide enough and you should land something.

As for the interviews, confidence is the number one thing to have. Being a trader is not for shy retiring wall flowers. You must show that you think you are a big swinging dick but that you are also eager to learn. A little ass kissing is good too.

Thats all for now, good luck!

D-Generate

mono627 wrote: »

If I had to recommend some books I would recommend Liar's Poker, Reminisces of a Stock Operator, Market Wizards 1 and 2 and A Random Walk Down Wall Street. I'd nearly consider these the "core" books on trading if you will (speaking like a seasoned trader which I'm not). Certainly wouldn't recommend looking for a trading job until you have these under your belt. Just a note on Liar's Poker, it won't actually teach you anything about trading, but it will give you a good insight into what trading used to be like. It's also pretty funny, so I'd defo recommend it!

Forgot to mention but yup these books are a definite must! Also read Michael Lewis's The Big Short. Its a good read although not really applicable to Forex Trading.... actually you won't really learn anything about techniques and skills but its good to give you an understanding about how the current economic situation came about.

gnr2206

D-Generate wrote: »

Don't dismiss the need to network. From those I know working in London as traders, a lot of them got their interviews through network contacts. That is why you will find so many people with backgrounds in say Art History from Oxford working in top-tier IBs. I don't doubt that they are capable but just saying that few of these people actually fit the job spec to get the first interview.

Basically if your university holds careers fairs go to anyone where IBs will be there and talk talk talk. Get a few business cards, go home and email them the next day to thank them for talking to you and say that you will be applying for an upcoming grad program/internship etc. Cast the net wide enough and you should land something.

As for the interviews, confidence is the number one thing to have. Being a trader is not for shy retiring wall flowers. You must show that you think you are a big swinging dick but that you are also eager to learn. A little ass kissing is good too.

Thats all for now, good luck!

Interesting read; yes networking is an important part of getting a job.

I have no desire to work for an IB tbh; i dont think i would like the enviroment. I would prefer to work for a high paced prop firm or in a trading arcade. Is there any firms in ireland? Positive equity and SIG are the ones i know about.

D-Generate

gnr2206 wrote: »

Interesting read; yes networking is an important part of getting a job.

I have no desire to work for an IB tbh; i dont think i would like the enviroment. I would prefer to work for a high paced prop firm or in a trading arcade. Is there any firms in ireland? Positive equity and SIG are the ones i know about.

Not really that many in Ireland. Positive Equity and SIG are the only ones I know about too. Ones to consider around the world are

http://www.drwtrading.com/careers/
http://www.twosigma.com/careers.html
http://www.bluecrestcapital.com/GraduateRecruitment.aspx
https://www.deshaw.com/recruit/jobs/OC/Other
http://www.lyz.com/career.php

Optiver (A ridiculously difficult maths test to get in)
Liquid Capital Markets
Jane Street
MAN

There are a few others dotted around the place.
IBs have prop desks too. Its not all M&A's and research roles. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs are well known for their prop desks.

gnr2206

D-Generate wrote: »

Not really that many in Ireland. Positive Equity and SIG are the only ones I know about too. Ones to consider around the world are

http://www.drwtrading.com/careers/
http://www.twosigma.com/careers.html
http://www.bluecrestcapital.com/GraduateRecruitment.aspx
https://www.deshaw.com/recruit/jobs/OC/Other
http://www.lyz.com/career.php

Optiver (A ridiculously difficult maths test to get in)
Liquid Capital Markets
Jane Street
MAN

There are a few others dotted around the place.
IBs have prop desks too. Its not all M&A's and research roles. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs are well known for their prop desks.

Thank you for the post; i had a look at the websites and its very informative.

But what is a "normal" day on a trading floor/desk like?

mono627

gnr2206 wrote: »

Thank you for the post; i had a look at the websites and its very informative.

But what is a "normal" day on a trading floor/desk like?

You'd spend most of your day looking at about 5 or 6 different computer screens with charts on them.

ANC

To be honest insane mathematical abilities is useful if you want to go down the QA (Quant) route - if you are enjoy computer programming / studied engineering / like maths then this could be interesting for you.

However if not, dont fear as personally I hate maths but work in a prop firm.

I use algorithmic tools to help me but at the end of the day I rely on my eyes and my memory.... ie pattern recognition.

This is by far the most important factor - trading above all else takes screen time and experience - you need to suffer first (ie go through the learning curve) and get that screen time.

The most important thing I look for when we are interviewing a trader is their desire to become a trader (how hard will they work) and once they are intelligent. Attitude is most important.

IMO, dont go down the quant route unless you enjoy maths / computer programming as you wont enjoy it. Real trading skills comes from experience and good mentoring.

mono627

ANC wrote: »

To be honest insane mathematical abilities is useful if you want to go down the QA (Quant) route - if you are enjoy computer programming / studied engineering / like maths then this could be interesting for you.

However if not, dont fear as personally I hate maths but work in a prop firm.

I use algorithmic tools to help me but at the end of the day I rely on my eyes and my memory.... ie pattern recognition.

This is by far the most important factor - trading above all else takes screen time and experience - you need to suffer first (ie go through the learning curve) and get that screen time.

The most important thing I look for when we are interviewing a trader is their desire to become a trader (how hard will they work) and once they are intelligent. Attitude is most important.

IMO, dont go down the quant route unless you enjoy maths / computer programming as you wont enjoy it. Real trading skills comes from experience and good mentoring.

Thanks for the input ANC. In your opinion, how would one go about demonstrating desire to become a trader?

Any other advice for someone looking to get into a trading role?

edbar2

mono627 wrote: »

Thanks for the input ANC. In your opinion, how would one go about demonstrating desire to become a trader?

Any other advice for someone looking to get into a trading role?

I've traded in multiple trading houses and have seen many traders come and go and I've seen veteran traders get wiped out.

Today's markets are different than they were in 90's.

I recommend that you do it for a month. You will learn more "first hand" knowledge, about trading in that environment then you will on community boards. I think when you see how the pros trade, it will change your whole outlook on the stock market. It's worth the effort.

mono627

edbar2 wrote: »

I've traded in multiple trading houses and have seen many traders come and go and I've seen veteran traders get wiped out.

Today's markets are different than they were in 90's.

I recommend that you do it for a month. You will learn more "first hand" knowledge, about trading in that environment then you will on community boards. I think when you see how the pros trade, it will change your whole outlook on the stock market. It's worth the effort.

Way ahead of you! :-)

edbar2

mono627 wrote: »

Way ahead of you! :-)

So you have already sat in front of level II screens in a trading house, pounding the buy/sell keys for days, and you like it?

Cool!

Only other advice I would have is to consider going robotic so you can develop strategies that you can run either unattended or as a trading buddy so it can track for the conditions you want so you don't have to stare at screens all day.

mono627

edbar2 wrote: »

So you have already sat in front of level II screens in a trading house, pounding the buy/sell keys for days, and you like it?

Cool!

Only other advice I would have is to consider going robotic so you can develop strategies that you can run either unattended or as a trading buddy so it can track for the conditions you want so you don't have to stare at screens all day.

Love it!

Good advice edbar2, it's something I'm looking at at the moment! Thanks.

edbar2

mono627 wrote: »

Love it!

Good advice edbar2, it's something I'm looking at at the moment! Thanks.

You're welcome. Good Luck!

ton22

Hi edbar2 and mono 627,

I'm just interested to know what type of automatic trading you guys are looking at as I'm keen to get invloved in some of that. It would be a great way to leverage my time and would eliminate the need to stare at the computer screen all day!!:eek:

mono627

ton22 wrote: »

Hi edbar2 and mono 627,

I'm just interested to know what type of automatic trading you guys are looking at as I'm keen to get invloved in some of that. It would be a great way to leverage my time and would eliminate the need to stare at the computer screen all day!!:eek:

do you come from a programming background?

edbar2

ton22 wrote: »

Hi edbar2 and mono 627,

I'm just interested to know what type of automatic trading you guys are looking at as I'm keen to get invloved in some of that. It would be a great way to leverage my time and would eliminate the need to stare at the computer screen all day!!:eek:

Search google for "cooltrade".

It is automated stock trading software that does not require any programming knowledge. Also works with many brokers. The list of brokers like td ameritrade and etrade and others are on their website.