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N5/N26/N58 - Castlebar-Bohola / Swinford-Mount Falcon

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    monument wrote: »
    It’s nearly funny but not that you see no relationship between over specing roads and the ability to build out a network.

    The populations between Ballina, Castlebar and Westport don’t justify dual carriageways.

    That cost means it’s harder to actually upgrade routes for safety reasons. Capacity and locking in unsustable car commuting is what’s happening here.

    The N26 phase 2 should never have been dual carriageway. The second it was rejected by An Bord Pleanála it should have been resubmitted as a single carriage way road along the same alignment as the dual with some "swan protection".

    To this day I dont understand why this did not happen as it was An Bord Pleanála who noted that a lower capacity road would be better and that they would be more amenable to this option.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    monument wrote: »
    It’s nearly funny but not that you see no relationship between over specing roads and the ability to build out a network.

    The populations between Ballina, Castlebar and Westport don’t justify dual carriageways.

    That cost means it’s harder to actually upgrade routes for safety reasons. Capacity and locking in unsustable car commuting is what’s happening here.

    Apologies I'm not sure exactly what your responding to but anyway

    The N26 scheme this thread about was to be a 2+2 connecting to SC Phase 1 of the N26 and connecting to SC Swinford bypass at the other end. 2+2 was overdoing it and especially so when it was rejected because traffic volumes were falling at the time

    2+2 may be meritorious if it connected to an upgraded R321 from Bohola to Kiltimagh through to the N17


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    marno21 wrote: »
    Apologies I'm not sure exactly what your responding to but anyway

    The N26 scheme this thread about was to be a 2+2 connecting to SC Phase 1 of the N26 and connecting to SC Swinford bypass at the other end. 2+2 was overdoing it and especially so when it was rejected because traffic volumes were falling at the time

    2+2 may be meritorious if it connected to an upgraded R321 from Bohola to Kiltimagh through to the N17

    You really think one overkill project going ahead in a county doesn’t limit the number of km that can be upgraded within the next decade?


  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭ lotusm


    Reply from a public representative When I queried the latest delay in upgrading the n26....



    That information is not correct.

    We are awaiting a positive decision from An Bord Pleanala hopefully in the coming weeks to proceed with a new bridge and road realignment at Cloongullaun.

    The problem is that the N26 route is located in the River Moy Special Area of Conservation which requires protection of habitats and species therein. This is the reason there is a delay in relation to Cloongullaun and the reason N26 Phase 2 Ballina to Bohola was refused in 2010.

    I have done massive work I'm bring together National Parks and Wildlife Service, Mayo County Council and TII to address issues and also involving Minister Josepha Madigan and the Taoiseach to iron out issues. Also since 2011 I secured over €4m to address issues and find a suitable route for the upgrade of the N26 along with developing connectivity between Ballina and Castlebar via Straide( a new N58). If you check out my Facebook page you will see where I have been highlighting frustration with environmental designation and An Bord Pleanala.

    The plan is to develop the N26 in stages and hopefully when planning for Cloongullaun comes through the next stage is Mount Falcon to Bohola.

    I am also fighting for an Orbital Route(ring road) for Ballina which could also be developed in stages.

    All of this roads infrastructure is critical for our area, no doubt.

    I hope this clarifies the situation.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    lotusm wrote: »
    Reply from a public representative When I queried the latest delay in upgrading the n26....



    That information is not correct.

    We are awaiting a positive decision from An Bord Pleanala hopefully in the coming weeks to proceed with a new bridge and road realignment at Cloongullaun.

    The problem is that the N26 route is located in the River Moy Special Area of Conservation which requires protection of habitats and species therein. This is the reason there is a delay in relation to Cloongullaun and the reason N26 Phase 2 Ballina to Bohola was refused in 2010.

    I have done massive work I'm bring together National Parks and Wildlife Service, Mayo County Council and TII to address issues and also involving Minister Josepha Madigan and the Taoiseach to iron out issues. Also since 2011 I secured over €4m to address issues and find a suitable route for the upgrade of the N26 along with developing connectivity between Ballina and Castlebar via Straide( a new N58). If you check out my Facebook page you will see where I have been highlighting frustration with environmental designation and An Bord Pleanala.

    The plan is to develop the N26 in stages and hopefully when planning for Cloongullaun comes through the next stage is Mount Falcon to Bohola.

    I am also fighting for an Orbital Route(ring road) for Ballina which could also be developed in stages.

    All of this roads infrastructure is critical for our area, no doubt.

    I hope this clarifies the situation.

    What did you say that she replied that “That information is not correct“?

    And why are you hiding the fact it’s Mulhern?

    Anyway that goes some way to explaining why Mulhern keeps ranting about environmental regulations — (1) she’s clueless about and/or is trying to hide the fact there’s systemic delays in the planning system her government should have fixed by now and (2) she’s clueless that environmental concerns are overridden when there’s a strong enough case for a project and the problem with Ballina to Bohola was a weak planning case.

    There was a weak case for to have Ballina to Bohola as a duel carriageway, thus, as reported at the time: “The board claimed that it had not been demonstrated that the proposed road scheme, designed to dual carriageway standard with two major bridge crossings of the Moy, was justified” from http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/22898/n26-refused-road-would-have-been-intrusion-of-moy-river-valley

    She has made so many blunders generally that it’s not surprising that she’s clueless of the planning system and EU law.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    http://www.mayonews.ie/news/32910-ballina-councillor-slams-doom-and-gloom-about-the-n26

    N26 scheme was one of those which barely missed out on inclusion in the Capital Plan. At present, it will be advanced sometime between 2028 an 2032.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    New bridge and road realignment at Cloongullaun has been approved by ABP:

    http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/JP0041.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    user1842 wrote: »
    New bridge and road realignment at Cloongullaun has been approved by ABP:

    http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/JP0041.htm

    Wait a minute, from actually reading the inspectors report:

    I recommend that the application under Section 177AE for the realignment and upgrade of the N26 National Primary Route at Cloongullaun is refused (Schedule 1), and consequently that the CPO is annulled (Schedule 2).

    Its look's like ABP made a decision against their own inspectors report (thank God).


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭ DumbBrunette


    I noticed that too.

    It's frightening that the ABP inspector would put very minor environmental concerns ahead of the obvious need to upgrade this appalling stretch of road.

    It seems that in his view, some temporary disruption to the local ecosystem is more important than preventing further deaths and serious injuries in accidents at the bridge.

    Like I said, frightening. I'd love to hear how he could possibly justify that decision. Thank God the board overruled him.


    user1842 wrote: »
    Wait a minute, from actually reading the inspectors report:

    I recommend that the application under Section 177AE for the realignment and upgrade of the N26 National Primary Route at Cloongullaun is refused (Schedule 1), and consequently that the CPO is annulled (Schedule 2).

    Its look's like ABP made a decision against their own inspectors report (thank God).


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    I've seen quite a few inspectors reports ignored by the board. I do wonder if there's one problematic inspector or multiple!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ discodaveirl


    I noticed that too.

    It's frightening that the ABP inspector would put very minor environmental concerns ahead of the obvious need to upgrade this appalling stretch of road.

    It seems that in his view, some temporary disruption to the local ecosystem is more important than preventing further deaths and serious injuries in accidents at the bridge.

    Like I said, frightening. I'd love to hear how he could possibly justify that decision. Thank God the board overruled him.


    Dont ever remember any deaths or serious injuries at this bridge as a result of a road collision.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    In light of this scheme being frozen, local councillor is asking for parallel access roads to be constructed along the N5.

    https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/31305-investigations-underway-to-reduce-number-of-exits-off-the-n5-between-bohola-and-charlestown


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Michelle Mulherin asking Ross for an upgrade

    http://www.mayonews.ie/news/33894-senator-begs-ross-for-new-ballina-road

    I don't see any chance of success to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭ Cosmo Kramer


    May be worth keeping an eye on what position Dara Calleary gets in any new Government that is formed. If he gets anywhere near the infrastructure budget expect him to push hard for some kind of N26 upgrade to be pushed up the priority list.

    It's a long way from being in a position where any significant works could take place on the road (beyond the bridge upgrade) but he has long had an agenda against the development of West Mayo at (as he sees it) the expense of North Mayo and this will be his number one project that he will be expected to deliver on for his base in Ballina.

    https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35436-we-ll-reboot-rural-economy-calleary

    Personally I would be of the view that the N5 in Roscommon should be his priority as it would benefit the whole of Mayo and west Roscommon rather than just North Mayo and has a much greater chance of being progressed during the Government's term.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    It required a level of pragmatism and ability to explain on behalf of Kenny to push N5 works outside the county rather than roads within the county (and hence get the Longford and Ballaghaderreen bypasses) that Calleary may not have


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    Personally I would be of the view that the N5 in Roscommon should be his priority as it would benefit the whole of Mayo and west Roscommon rather than just North Mayo and has a much greater chance of being progressed during the Government's term.

    N5 in Roscommon is done and dusted. Construction will probably start this year. It's the N4 from Mullingar to Longford that needs done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭ DumbBrunette


    Not quite done and dusted.... AFAIK it still needs to go through Cabinet at least one more time before construction could start. Other posters might have better knowledge of the exact mechanics.
    user1842 wrote: »
    N5 in Roscommon is done and dusted. Construction will probably start this year. It's the N4 from Mullingar to Longford that needs done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,258 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    Not quite done and dusted.... AFAIK it still needs to go through Cabinet at least one more time before construction could start. Other posters might have better knowledge of the exact mechanics.


    Is it a €100m plus scheme? If it's not it doesn't need cabinet approval.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    Also I really hope Dara Calleary gets the N26 done. Anyone who has driven on that road will know the poor state it is in. It does not need a new road just a good inline upgrade (like the one done after Tuam towards Milltown on the N17).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    Is it a €100m plus scheme? If it's not it doesn't need cabinet approval.

    €200m

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a3479a-minister-ross-announces-n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramoge-road-project/

    I think the only thing that will stop it now is a archaeological find. I cannot see the Cabinet holding it up, but I could be wrong.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    Not quite done and dusted.... AFAIK it still needs to go through Cabinet at least one more time before construction could start. Other posters might have better knowledge of the exact mechanics.

    Indeed you are correct:

    "Following receipt of tenders and subject to Government Approval to proceed the main construction contract will take three years to complete."


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭ DumbBrunette


    I think it's unlikely too, but I never fully trust the Greens to be rational!
    user1842 wrote: »
    €200m

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a3479a-minister-ross-announces-n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramoge-road-project/

    I think the only thing that will stop it now is a archaeological find. I cannot see the Cabinet holding it up, but I could be wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭ Cosmo Kramer


    It's only done and dusted when the contracts are signed and the machines are on site - so the N5 in Roscommon is not quite there yet.

    In terms of representing his Mayo constituency in government the most productive thing Calleary can do in the next year is make sure the N5 project gets off the ground. The N26 is clearly something he wants to focus on but he can only really move that so far from it's current position, which is pretty much at the bottom of the queue.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Important to note that the N5 scheme is the only major road scheme (with Dunkettle) that has planning permission. The M21 scheme should be through ABP before year end but there is years of advance works needed there before it can proceed.

    The Green Party will drive cuts to the road programme but it won't be cut too far. There are no shovel ready public transport projects to soak up funding from any "ratio reversal".

    Plus the penny might drop and they might learn that buses also use roads and that freight is needed to keep the economy running. It's not about evil cars and motorists ambition to run the environment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭ Cosmo Kramer


    marno21 wrote: »
    Plus the penny might drop and they might learn that buses also use roads and that freight is needed to keep the economy running. It's not about evil cars and motorists ambition to run the environment.

    I wouldn't bet on it!

    In general I would be open to a lot of green agenda policies, public transport, recycling, clean energy etc. But the lack of pragmatism of the Irish Green Party when it comes to Ireland outside of Dublin is laughable and prevents them from ever progressing as a political party I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,258 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    I wouldn't bet on it!

    In general I would be open to a lot of green agenda policies, public transport, recycling, clean energy etc. But the lack of pragmatism of the Irish Green Party when it comes to Ireland outside of Dublin is laughable and prevents them from ever progressing as a political party I think.


    Idealism trumps realism in the Green Party. Loads of ideas thrown out as policy with no clue as to whether they're actually workable or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ user1842


    Idealism trumps realism in the Green Party. Loads of ideas thrown out as policy with no clue as to whether they're actually workable or not.

    You could be right about the Greens destroying this project also:

    https://dateway.net/greens-considering-railway-line-between-limerick-and-cork/

    :(


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    TII have sought to have this included as part of the review of the National Development Plan (this and 9 other schemes)

    https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/05/14/put-foxford-ballyvary-road-back-on-agenda/


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭ DumbBrunette


    Posting this here too as it's arguably the more appropriate thread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    If a bypass of Foxford was to go on the western side of the town, would that suggest an intention to extend the N26 from the western end of the current new bridge project, over to the N86 and combine both roads in one bypass?



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