Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

N5/N26/N58 - Castlebar-Bohola / Swinford-Mount Falcon

Options
24

Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    newtown13 wrote: »
    Very disappointing considering the length of time this has been discussed and the traffic volumes on the road. It also appears that the revised plan doesnt include a bypass of either Foxford nor Swinford aside from an western bypass of foxford for the castlebar route.
    Far, far bigger priorities elsewhere. Mayo is getting the N5 Westport DC & the N5 upgraded through Roscommon, along with the N59 Westport-Mulranny and N26 Cloongullane bridge replacement. That'll do for now.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    newtown13 wrote: »
    Very disappointing considering the length of time this has been discussed and the traffic volumes on the road. It also appears that the revised plan doesnt include a bypass of either Foxford nor Swinford aside from an western bypass of foxford for the castlebar route.

    Yes, that's correct, the road is still overly focused on connecting Ballina and Castlebar. It was worse before but still mainly focused on commuter traffic within Mayo.
    marno21 wrote: »
    Far, far bigger priorities elsewhere. Mayo is getting the N5 Westport DC & the N5 upgraded through Roscommon, along with the N59 Westport-Mulranny and N26 Cloongullane bridge replacement. That'll do for now.

    The N5 Castlebar-Westport DC is overkill of the highest order.

    The N26 Cloongullane is part of this thread topic but is fairly basic and needs to be done regardless of a wider project.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    monument wrote: »
    Yes, that's correct, the road is still overly focused on connecting Ballina and Castlebar. It was worse before but still mainly focused on commuter traffic within Mayo.



    The N5 Castlebar-Westport DC is overkill of the highest order.

    The N26 Cloongullane is part of this thread topic but is fairly basic and needs to be done regardless of a wider project.

    Get real mate - do some research would you! - with an AADT level of 9000+ PCUs, a type 2 dual carriageway is well justified. Sure one can argue that all the investment in cycling infrastructure is way over the top. If the traffic levels between Castlebar and Westport were higher by a reasonable margin, a motorway would be required.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Get real mate - do some research would you! - with an AADT level of 9000+ PCUs, a type 2 dual carriageway is well justified. Sure one can argue that all the investment in cycling infrastructure is way over the top. If the traffic levels between Castlebar and Westport were higher by a reasonable margin, a motorway would be required.

    Research you say...

    405002.JPG

    As for cycling: Nobody has mentioned cycling on this thread -- please go stalk somebody else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    D2AP is a significantly higher standard of road than a Type 2 DC. Not sure what impact that has on expected capacity.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    L1011 wrote: »
    D2AP is a significantly higher standard of road than a Type 2 DC. Not sure what impact that has on expected capacity.

    Point is that it is well within the range for a WS2 or equivalent design.

    Dual is overkill except maybe for a week or two a year (which is hardly the bases for choosing the road design type).

    And for the record: I've talked to more than a few people in Mayo who think DC is overkill -- admittedly for different reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    WS2 is a deleted standard, though. We don't build WS2 roads anymore, as T2DCs effectively cost the same and are significantly safer.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    L1011 wrote: »
    WS2 is a deleted standard, though. We don't build WS2 roads anymore, as T2DCs effectively cost the same and are significantly safer.

    But they are still using WS2+1 in the UK?

    The NRA/TII aren't really the best bunch to trust on cost effectiveness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    monument wrote: »
    But they are still using WS2+1 in the UK?

    The NRA/TII aren't really the best bunch to trust on cost effectiveness.

    2+1 roads are also lethal; so anywhere using them isn't worth comparing to.

    WS2 roads result in insanely high closing speed head-ons as people get lulled in to a false sense of security. Overbridges and seperated junctions make it even worse

    Every 2+1 here has serious incidents at junctions or at the end of the 2 lane sections - high speed sideswipes turn in to spins, for one.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    L1011 wrote: »
    2+1 roads are also lethal; so anywhere using them isn't worth comparing to.

    WS2 roads result in insanely high closing speed head-ons as people get lulled in to a false sense of security. Overbridges and seperated junctions make it even worse

    Every 2+1 here has serious incidents at junctions or at the end of the 2 lane sections - high speed sideswipes turn in to spins, for one.

    On the safety of 2+1, the international research shows otherwise. The problem in Ireland seems to be design -- an unwillingness to accept design is key and to admit or fix mistakes.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    monument wrote: »
    On the safety of 2+1, the international research shows otherwise. The problem in Ireland seems to be design -- an unwillingness to accept design is key and to admit or fix mistakes.

    Internationally, they are generally used at traffic levels that we wouldn't even imagine having anything better than a T3SC on. Very low single figure thousands in Scandinavia, for instance.

    T2DC is the same price, effectively, as WS2 and significantly future proofed as well as far safer - there is no sane argument for WS2 anymore.

    2+1/T3DC is proven unsafe with the traffic levels we wanted to use it for. If you try throw millions more at attempting to design it safe, you have reached the point where T2DC is the same cost...


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    L1011 wrote: »
    Internationally, they are generally used at traffic levels that we wouldn't even imagine having anything better than a T3SC on. Very low single figure thousands in Scandinavia, for instance.

    T2DC is the same price, effectively, as WS2 and significantly future proofed as well as far safer - there is no sane argument for WS2 anymore.

    2+1/T3DC is proven unsafe with the traffic levels we wanted to use it for. If you try throw millions more at attempting to design it safe, you have reached the point where T2DC is the same cost...

    Would love to see the evidence on this and why the NRA could not present said evidence to ABP for the first design of the N26 route which was rejected at planning.

    And the UK seems to be still using 2+1 for what we are using a type of DC.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The N24 pilot 2+1 is so dangerous at the junctions that the locals want it ripped up. The 2+1 on the N20 is a joke considering the traffic levels.

    For non motorway busy roads these days these are the relevant standards

    T2DC: 4x 3.5m lanes, 0.5m hard strips, 1.5m central reservation = 16.5m

    as opposed to

    WS2: 2x 5.0m lanes, 2.5m hard shoulders = 15m

    For the sake of 1.5m we get 2 extra lanes, no bad overtaking and no head on collisions. Great idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭user1842


    Any update on the progress of the N26 upgrade. It was mentioned in the National Development Plan 2018—2027:

    In addition, there are sensitive areas where their environmental and tourism value mean that major new alignments are neither feasible nor appropriate.
    On those routes, there will be targeted improvements to address bottlenecks and enhance safety, for example, the N59 in Mayo on the Wild Atlantic Way and the N26 linking Ballina to the N5.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    user1842 wrote: »
    Any update on the progress of the N26 upgrade. It was mentioned in the National Development Plan 2018—2027:

    In addition, there are sensitive areas where their environmental and tourism value mean that major new alignments are neither feasible nor appropriate.
    On those routes, there will be targeted improvements to address bottlenecks and enhance safety, for example, the N59 in Mayo on the Wild Atlantic Way and the N26 linking Ballina to the N5.
    At the minute, the only plan is the upgrade of Cloongullane Bridge. The rest of the N26 is suspended.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭user1842


    marno21 wrote: »
    At the minute, the only plan is the upgrade of Cloongullane Bridge. The rest of the N26 is suspended.

    That's depressing


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Confirmation from TII (officially) that no work will take place on the N26 for at least 10 years, apart from the planned realignment at Cloongullane bridge

    https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/09/27/4162598-dismay-over-n26-ten-years-revelation/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭user1842


    For God sake, it will never get done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Knock2


    Can somebody please answer the following questions ad I don’t want any political point scoring blaming ff or fg ect
    Why is this upgrade taking so long it has been talked about for 30 years now?
    How has the Westport Castlebar road leaped fringed the n26?
    Is it the minster or somebody in tii that decides what roads get da go ahead?
    When or how can we get facts ie..da road will start construction on Jan 01 2023 ad there is a build period of 2 years so it will be open in 2025 as an example?
    Has the route got planning is all gud to go?
    Why has every government for the last 30 years not completed the route?
    How can this project be speeded up ie..does Leo or Michael kno this road requires an upgrade ad why won’t they do anything about it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 newtown13


    Unfortunately, this road isnt going to be built.
    Instead, they have opted to upgrade the existing N26. Cloongullane bridge will be the next project.

    After that, a possible upgrade of the road to castlebar with a bypass on the western side of Foxford. This road has more traffic than the road to swinford


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭user1842


    newtown13 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, this road isnt going to be built.
    Instead, they have opted to upgrade the existing N26. Cloongullane bridge will be the next project.

    After that, a possible upgrade of the road to castlebar with a bypass on the western side of Foxford. This road has more traffic than the road to swinford

    But they said no work on the N26 for 10 years. This statement better not include inline upgrades. The inline section was included in the extended N5 study area. Is this now dropped.

    To hell or to Ballina.....


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Knock2 wrote: »
    Can somebody please answer the following questions ad I don’t want any political point scoring blaming ff or fg ect
    Knock2 wrote: »
    Why is this upgrade taking so long it has been talked about for 30 years now?

    The project was refused by ABP and has to start from scratch. It is currently not on the agenda of circa 50 projects being advanced at present.
    Knock2 wrote: »
    How has the Westport Castlebar road leaped fringed the n26?

    N5 Westport-Turlough was approved by ABP and is going from there.
    Knock2 wrote: »
    Is it the minster or somebody in tii that decides what roads get da go ahead?

    A mixture of TII, DPER, DTTAS, local authorities and some political interference put into that stew.
    Knock2 wrote: »
    When or how can we get facts ie..da road will start construction on Jan 01 2023 ad there is a build period of 2 years so it will be open in 2025 as an example?

    This scheme is only a concept yet so has not officially started yet.
    Knock2 wrote: »
    Has the route got planning is all gud to go?

    No as above.
    Knock2 wrote: »
    Why has every government for the last 30 years not completed the route?

    Other projects have been prioritised
    Knock2 wrote: »
    How can this project be speeded up ie..does Leo or Michael kno this road requires an upgrade ad why won’t they do anything about it?

    Outside of the main routes to Dublin, nearly every national road in the country is in need of upgrading. This is one of around 70 schemes that were considered for inclusion in the National Development Plan. 25-30 got included including the remainder of the N5 and work on the N17 and N59 in Mayo.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    user1842 wrote: »
    But they said no work on the N26 for 10 years. This statement better not include inline upgrades. The inline section was included in the extended N5 study area. Is this now dropped.

    To hell or to Ballina.....
    Cloongullane bridge is the only section being advanced at present. This is because it's a paramount safety issue that cannot wait for the major scheme in its area to be advanced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Knock2


    Why has north mayo and Ballina suffered neglect at the hands of every government for the last 30/40 years and a simple question is how can this be addressed,what has to change or will it change?
    Has mayo county councils over the same period of time anything to answer for or is the neglect totally down to the national governments??


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭user1842


    Knock2 wrote: »
    Why has north mayo and Ballina suffered neglect at the hands of every government for the last 30/40 years and a simple question is how can this be addressed,what has to change or will it change?
    Has mayo county councils over the same period of time anything to answer for or is the neglect totally down to the national governments??

    Unfortunately Castlebar and Westport have been priorities. In reality Ballina is still lucky to have its train station (thank god for Coca-Cola).

    The only way to help Ballina is, heaven forbid, to vote for Fianna Fail in the next election. Dara Calleary is from Ballina and may be of help to the town as he would get a high ministerial position in any Fianna Fail lead government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Knock2


    But who is prioritizing cbar and Westport and why,who is to blame?what does the future hold for north mayo region will it continue to suffer neglect why does it not gets its fair share?ther is probally a population of 20k + at a minimum in the region it’s probally a lot more than that,do the government propose we move to south mayo east west mayo what do they propose??


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Knock2 wrote: »
    But who is prioritizing cbar and Westport and why,who is to blame?what does the future hold for north mayo region will it continue to suffer neglect why does it not gets its fair share?ther is probally a population of 20k + at a minimum in the region it’s probally a lot more than that,do the government propose we move to south mayo east west mayo what do they propose??

    That would have been a certain fella from Castlebar called Enda....


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Knock2


    As far as I’m aware there was very little mention of north mayo in the national development plan towards 2040 so that means for the next 22 years we will suffer even more neglect,who is going to shout stop???


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Knock2


    In fairness to Enda this has been going on for 40 years so it’s not his fault in this case! I think there has to be a more deep rooted answer to this genes I’m puting it out there hoping for some proper reasons if they exist?


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    marno21 wrote: »
    The project was refused by ABP and has to start from scratch. It is currently not on the agenda of circa 50 projects being advanced at present.



    N5 Westport-Turlough was approved by ABP and is going from there.



    A mixture of TII, DPER, DTTAS, local authorities and some political interference put into that stew.



    This scheme is only a concept yet so has not officially started yet.



    No as above.



    Other projects have been prioritised



    Outside of the main routes to Dublin, nearly every national road in the country is in need of upgrading. This is one of around 70 schemes that were considered for inclusion in the National Development Plan. 25-30 got included including the remainder of the N5 and work on the N17 and N59 in Mayo.

    It’s nearly funny but not that you see no relationship between over specing roads and the ability to build out a network.

    The populations between Ballina, Castlebar and Westport don’t justify dual carriageways.

    That cost means it’s harder to actually upgrade routes for safety reasons. Capacity and locking in unsustable car commuting is what’s happening here.


Advertisement