Hey Guards..Whats going on?

arybvtcw0eolkf

da__flash wrote: »

if you see something illegal takin place ring your local garda station and report it they dont have a crystal ball to see where all these things happening as they say you cant measure prevention

psni wrote: »

Nowhere near as bad as it is in Dublin though. Last time I was down there I was amazed to see the volume of open dealing, but I'm smart enough not to blame the Gardai.

Seriously?.

And the Gatso van comment from you, was that another cop out (no pun)?.

Anyone here who is a regular pedestrian in Dublin city center could easily change the name from Gatso to Garda car, van or bike... Or as Degsy said, the GPO!.

I do realize that crime is crime and there's no good & bad, but it really is hard for a member of the public to have faith, confidence & respect in AGS when, to the lay person, it seem's certain members of AGS are being lazy and turning a blind eye to the problem and focusing on easier targets.

Shield

Niko Gentle Handlebar wrote: »

Seriously?.

And the Gatso van comment from you, was that another cop out (no pun)?.

Anyone here who is a regular pedestrian in Dublin city center could easily change the name from Gatso to Garda car, van or bike... Or as Degsy said, the GPO!.

Ya wha? I didn't realise I ever 'copped out' on any question you asked me before?

In my experience modding this forum, as soon as the Gatso van red herring gets dragged into a thread where nothing like it is being discussed, that thread is going nowhere, except down the Garda-bashing route, which I will not allow.

Does that answer your question?

eroo

Niko Gentle Handlebar wrote: »

Seriously?.

And the Gatso van comment from you, was that another cop out (no pun)?.

Anyone here who is a regular pedestrian in Dublin city center could easily change the name from Gatso to Garda car, van or bike... Or as Degsy said, the GPO!.

I do realize that crime is crime and there's no good & bad, but it really is hard for a member of the public to have faith, confidence & respect in AGS when, to the lay person, it seem's certain members of AGS are being lazy and turning a blind eye to the problem and focusing on easier targets.

Gatso vans have nothing to do with tackling drug related crime, so I don't see how it's relevant.

AGS cannot focus every resource on drugs; Store St cannot focus every resource on drugs. They and the wider organisation have to deal with organised crime, murder, rape, burglary, robbery, traffic issues etc Store St is the busiest station in the country. To criticise members there because they are not given enough resources, manpower, public support, and backing by the judicial system is unfair, very unfair.

Terrontress

I think that the Gatso van is useful to refer to in debate given that it is so unpopular and, while entirely passive in its operation, can be seen as an extreme operation as it uses undercover tactics on society as large.

And Garda criticism should surely be encouraged on such a site....?

Terrontress

eroo wrote: »

Gatso vans have nothing to do with tackling drug related crime, so I don't see how it's relevant.

AGS cannot focus every resource on drugs; Store St cannot focus every resource on drugs. They and the wider organisation have to deal with organised crime, murder, rape, burglary, robbery, traffic issues etc Store St is the busiest station in the country. To criticise members there because they are not given enough resources, manpower, public support, and backing by the judicial system is unfair, very unfair.

What do you think the next crime you throw the towel in on will be?

eroo

Terrontress wrote: »

I think that the Gatso van is useful to refer to in debate given that it is so unpopular and, while entirely passive in its operation, can be seen as an extreme operation as it uses undercover tactics on society as large.

And Garda criticism should surely be encouraged on such a site....?

It has nothing to with the original topic

eroo

Terrontress wrote: »

What do you think the next crime you throw the towel in on will be?

No one is throwing a towel in, it's just the posters here criticising the Gardai seem to think the Gardai do nothing. When in fact, they are incredibly busy dealing with so many different forms of crime. They are doing the best with the resources they have.

Shield

Terrontress wrote: »

I think that the Gatso van is useful to refer to in debate given that it is so unpopular and, while entirely passive in its operation, can be seen as an extreme operation as it uses undercover tactics on society as large.

And Garda criticism should surely be encouraged on such a site....?

Take a read of this post. It answers the OP very well IMO. Traffic Corps have completely different aims and objectives, so dragging the very unpopular Gatso vans into a discussion about the volume of drugs on our streets is a complete red herring. They are 2 completely different aspects of policing a city, and a question was asked about drugs, not the Traffic Corps.

This is very close to being locked lads. IMO foreign provided the best answer to the OP, so if nobody else has anything constructive to append to foreign's post, this will be closed soon.

arybvtcw0eolkf

psni wrote: »

Ya wha? I didn't realise I ever 'copped out' on any question you asked me before?

In my experience modding this forum, as soon as the Gatso van red herring gets dragged into a thread where nothing like it is being discussed, that thread is going nowhere, except down the Garda-bashing route, which I will not allow.

Does that answer your question?

Answer's it, yes. Pity you choose not to first time & we could have avoided this.

I'm a regular enough visitor, and poster in this forum and I'm surprised someone might view one of my posts as "Garda-bashing".

I can understand a guard's frustration with a thread like this, I get it when I hear the usual "sure our army does feck all" in other discussions on other forum's & in the public media. So I'd 'tend to bend over backwards not to rile member's of this forum up.

Maybe this goes back to an earlier thread on AGS and public alienation - honestly, I feel sorry for the burden your lads here in Dublin have to carry, but it appears to most people that rank & file members of AGS just don't give a rats about public perception of them.

Sorry if it appears I'm coming across overly negative on AGS, I guess I'm sitting on the fence somewhat as I work closely enough with your guys to realise the above isn't the case. But I'm also Joe Public and know how a lot of people feel. At the moment there are similar threads running in the Dublin City Forum and another large one in Commuting and Transport - both expressing a lack of confidence in AGS.

Listen, realistically we all know these threads can't change a city & mostly its people getting stuff off their chest. But by and large they do reflect the public mood in relation to policing our cities & towns.

Re. the Gatso & red herrings (ain't directed at you PSNI - late edit)..

I think some members missed the message in this;

Anyone here who is a regular pedestrian in Dublin city center could easily change the name from Gatso to Garda car, van or bike... Or as Degsy said, the GPO!.

Point being, dealer's feel confident enough to be dealing right under your nose!.

Garda bashing, I feel strong enough about this to address it again..

I'm one of a few (I suspect) when going through a check point will say "thank you, have a safe night" each and every time, or walking down a path will give a nod to a passing garda. So I'm a little peeved that my posts are coming across as 'garda bashing' - I'll try it next time I'm training with your Judo team

Degsy

eroo wrote: »

Store St cannot focus every resource on drugs. They and the wider organisation have to deal with organised crime, murder, rape, burglary, robbery

ALL of these serious crimes can be linked to drugs in one way or another..i'm not saying every case is,but certainly the drug industry has spawned its fair share of murders,robberies and burlaries and by its very nature heroin importation and distribution could be seen as organised crime.

The addicts and dealers on the street are the very people perpetrating the crimes you speak of..

Turn a blind eye to open street dealing and you're giving people an inch which will soon become a mile.

Shield

Yikes, that was probably my fault. 'Garda-bashing' is a term that I use all the time to describe a direction that a thread usually takes when it takes a turn for the worse. I absolutely know that you wouldn't do it, and none of your posts even came close to it. I'm real sorry if you thought that I was suggesting you were engaging in Garda-bashing. I know you well enough to know it's not your style.

On the other thing, all you said was "Why?" and it was an oversight on my side after that. I replied to Terrontress's post and then forgot yours. I hope it doesn't come across that I 'cop out' on questions around here. Far from it. I'm always open to questions and I'm not known for ever 'copping out' on anything I represent or stand for.

Usually, I'd send a PM for something like this, but I feel strongly about someone saying "another cop out" directed at me, on my forum, as if to suggest that I regularly and routinely cop out of answering questions.

Back on topic, I think I'll close this thread at around midnight tonight, because I don't think that the OP's question will get any better an answer than the one given by foreign above.

Shield

You got a very well informed answer to your question. I was of a mind to delete this post, because you're just going around in circles. We get it! You're not happy with the way Dublin city is policed. You made your point.

Degsy wrote: »

ALL of these serious crimes can be linked to drugs in one way or another..i'm not saying every case is,but certainly the drug industry has spawned its fair share of murders,robberies and burlaries and by its very nature heroin importation and distribution could be seen as organised crime.

The addicts and dealers on the street are the very people perpetrating the crimes you speak of..

Turn a blind eye to open street dealing and you're giving people an inch which will soon become a mile.

Degsy

psni wrote: »

You got a very well informed answer to your question. I was of a mind to delete this post, because you're just going around in circles. We get it! You're not happy with the way Dublin city is policed. You made your point.

It seems to me that if you dont like the implications of a thread you'll close it without letting it run its course.
The situation is very emotive and maybe one that should be permitted proper discussion without pre-emptive moves to end it before the real issue is adressed.

The question is:

"Why are the guards allowing this to happen?"

the answer seems to be:

"We have other stuff to be doing."

That just doesnt sound right to me lads.

Shield

"There are a lot more drug users and dealers than there are gardai ever working at any one time."

What don't you get about that?

Degsy

psni wrote: »

"There are a lot more drug users and dealers than there are gardai ever working at any one time."

What don't you get about that?

Okay..there's a military doctrine that states that superior numbers are negated by a narrow front...one strong man can hold off an army if he's fighting in a corridor..that sort of thing.
If it seems that huge numbers of drug users and dealers are plying thier trade in a small,concentrated area,you dont need a huge amount of gardai to police them,you know where they all are.
You know very well this problem could be sorted with the application of a little bit of initiative,NOT huge numbers of extra guards.

We can make excuses all day but it could be dealt with if the will to do so existed.

Shield

Degsy wrote: »

Okay..there's a military doctrine that states that superior numbers are negated by a narrow front...one strong man can hold off an army if he's fighting in a corridor..that sort of thing.
If it seems that huge numbers of drug users and dealers are plying thier trade in a small,concentrated area,you dont need a huge amount of gardai to police them,you know where they all are.
You know very well this problem could be sorted with the application of a little bit of initiative,NOT huge numbers of extra guards.

We can make excuses all day but it could be dealt with if the will to do so existed.

Edit: I'm happy to let Degsy have the final say, so thread closed after his post.