Hey Guards..Whats going on?

Degsy

Eru wrote: »

A lot of those suggestions are illegal.

Are they as illegal as heroin sale and distribution in broad daylight in the middle of the City Centre of the capital city of Ireland?

Shield

Degsy wrote: »

Are they as illegal as heroin sale and distribution in broad daylight in the middle of the City Centre of the capital city of Ireland?

Absolutely. Far more illegal.

Zambia

Sounds like Dublin has drifted back to 1995.

Economy hits the skids people dont get work, turn to crime drink , drugs

Goverments reduce spending on services. Due to lack of funds.

Crime increases.

The city centre is the hub of revenue and supply you can rob a shop , fence the goods, then instantly find a dealer.

Paulzx

Zambia232 wrote: »

Sounds like Dublin has drifted back to 1995.

Economy hits the skids people dont get work, turn to crime drink , drugs

.

Unfortunately Dublin city center was still a junkie sh*thole right through the boom. We're not drifting back to 1995 as we never left it.

harr

this is happening in every town in the country,i am from a small town in the midlands and open dealing happens all day and night in the same spot by the same people,the guards know it is going on and who is doing the dealing and seem to turn a blind eye.i have often seen a squad car slow down have a look and drive off again.why cant they just wait around the corner in plain clothes and then search them.i know people who have rang the guards about the dealing and nothing has been done.i know down here we only have guards in the town 10-15 hours a week.

kerry4sam

harr wrote: »

this is happening in every town in the country,i am from a small town in the midlands and open dealing happens all day and night in the same spot by the same people,the guards know it is going on and who is doing the dealing and seem to turn a blind eye.i have often seen a squad car slow down have a look and drive off again.why cant they just wait around the corner in plain clothes and then search them.i know people who have rang the guards about the dealing and nothing has been done.i know down here we only have guards in the town 10-15 hours a week.

I would imagine that the slowing down, looking at who is dealing & driving off again is to take note themselves first-hand who is there. Odds on, they are building case-loads of info and these guys dealing would be, in the grand-scheme-of-things, be small fish in an ocean! They will eventually lead the guards back to the main dealers and the guys running the show from the top who the guards would really be looking to track down.
Just what I would imagine to be the case anyways.

Mister men

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Total cop out, everyone in the city can see whats going on(I'm sure the Garda have been mad well aware of the issue), it's happening every day in full view of the public. I think it's incredible that it's allowed to go on!

There's more money to be made catching people on traffic offenses, but as the OP said tourism will suffer, a revenue which we really need at this moment in time.

Fu ck the tourists. I walk in the city centre a lot and i don't want to see the scum on every corner selling drugs.

IvySlayer

I think Garda have lost faith in the justice system. They don't want to go around arresting junkies/dealers for the paperwork and the 1 month suspended sentences given out by the judges.

Tougher sentences is the answer. Get caught dealing, locked up for 5 years. Get caught dealing again, 10 years etc etc.

Anyone who has drugs on them need tough sentences too. Out of your head on a illegal substance, 6 months inside, lets face it, some people make mistakes. Second offence, 2 years. And so on and so forth.

Then we'd need more prisons built. Arghhhh.

If drug dealers/junkies are actually being punished, then Gardaí might have the motivation to do arrest them.

Zambia

Paulzx wrote: »

Unfortunately Dublin city center was still a junkie sh*thole right through the boom. We're not drifting back to 1995 as we never left it.

Not to the extent being described. In the 00's I dont recall open drug dealing on Westmoreland st as is being described today.

But you are correct there was always junkies.

In reponse to Maikomis suggestions in relation to privatisation of the issue. Without the legal powers the gardai have they would be useless. Besides no private company would train them to the extent they needed. I dont think any insurance company would insure them to perform such tasks.

The only answer is a comprensive all round approach targeting supply, demand, addiction treatment , prevention education, effective punishment(court) , border protection. This is not cheap either.

Police presence is actually one of the smaller part of the issue. However that is just my opinion.

Delancey

The first step in tackling open street dealing is to cease tolerating it.

Tordelback

Reading over this thread I came away with one clear impression - those who understand the justice system do not believe that anything useful can be done about the sale of illegal drugs, primarily because the powers, resources and funding needed are prohibitive. So why not just throw in the towel and decriminalise all drugs? It's hardly the kind of culture I'd like to see us embracing, but what's the point of these activities being called a criminal offense if there's nothing that can be done to enforce the law?

Zambia

Tordelback wrote: »

Reading over this thread I came away with one clear impression - those who understand the justice system do not believe that anything useful can be done about the sale of illegal drugs, primarily because the powers, resources and funding needed are prohibitive. So why not just throw in the towel and decriminalise all drugs? It's hardly the kind of culture I'd like to see us embracing, but what's the point of these activities being called a criminal offense if there's nothing that can be done to enforce the law?

The law is being enforced if you really believed it was not you you and I would be dealing drugs as its bloody good money [so Paul Williams tell me].

Sadly there is a sector of society that is so far f**ked they are happy to live at this level.

mickoneill30

Eru wrote: »

A lot of those suggestions are illegal. The rest are just not well thought out or realistic.

Boardwalk alone takes a half hour to patrol, thats 28 minutes between Garda visits.

GPO is a fixed post.

How about 2 patrols. That's 14 minutes between Garda visits.

I think the presence in Dublin is better (or more visable) than it was a few years ago though.

Maybe we should also pester the TDs and councillors. It's not all the Gards fault.

Paulzx

Zambia232 wrote: »

Not to the extent being described. In the 00's I dont recall open drug dealing on Westmoreland st as is being described today.

But you are correct there was always junkies.

.

You might not recall it but it was there. I work in the city and have observed junkies buying and shooting up all through the last decade in the areas described.

What's the solution? There probably is none. The sheer volume of low level junkies and dealers makes it an impossible task to clear them.

Hardcore policing of one area is expensive and resource heavy and just moves them on temporarly. As soon as the crackdown stops they'll ease back into the area.

The justice system should operate as a deterrent. A junkie doesn't give a damn about being arrested or a criminal record. He's basically already outside of society and only gives a damn about getting gear.

Heroin at this stage is a problem that i see no solution for

00MARTZ00

just out of curiosity why are the judges handing out such leniant sentences everyone knows what a scurge heroin is?

Degsy

00MARTZ00 wrote: »

just out of curiosity why are the judges handing out such leniant sentences everyone knows what a scurge heroin is?

Especially when they think nothing of sending people with no motor tax to prison.

Zambia

I reckon once you turned up in an irish prison with your measley week long motor tax sentence they would send you straight home. As long as the press was not focusing on your case.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Zambia232 wrote: »

I reckon once you turned up in an irish prison with your measley week long motor tax sentence they would send you straight home. As long as the press was not focusing on your case.

Mostly this is what I'm told from P.O. friends of mine, your in & out in an hour.

But its still a rub against the grain for the ordinary citizen on the street who don't know this.

Although I wasn't nabbed (this time, I was having a nice bowl of pasta), the other day a Gatso van parked opposite Bar Italia on Wood quay catching motorists breaking the stupidly low 30km speed limit and whats right beside the van - drug dealers!.

Seriously, right beside it in plain view of the people inside (maybe the Gatso is a private company??) there are people dealing, and accompanied by babies in pram's too!.

Now how in the name of God are people to have any respect, or confidence in AGS when their penalized for breaking a 30km speed limit while junkies & dealers fly in the face of the law, apparently scot free.

ria5000

Most of the time there's no garda in the gatso van.

Detour

The NYPD managed to clean up most areas of Manhattan by implementing some of the steps suggested by Degsy. In the early nineties areas like Times Sq. were bogged down with drug dealers, pimps, porn peddlers but the cops more or less cleaned up the entire area. The cops came in and made life hell for these law-breakers. It was just to much of a headache to stay, so they began moving out to BK, Queens, Bronx. Now Manhattan feels like one of the safest areas i've ever been to.

Now i'm not by any means suggesting that the problems were solved - merely that they were moved out of the City Centre, and this is what Dublin needs. At least the City Centre should be a crime free zone - these guys should be pushed out to the suburbs, so at least the tourist industry is not interrupted.

The cops should make it way too much hassle for these dealers. If these guys were picked up every day for a week, they'd move out of the city centre pretty quickly.

As to actually solving the problem of drugdealers, thats a much bigger question. But at least with the above the city centre would be clean.

Shield

Lads I'm not seeing a future for this thread. The problem here is not the rank and file Gardai. The problem is the poor legal system in Ireland which enables the arrested dealer to be back on the street before the Garda.

A lot of people are very annoyed, but you're annoyed at the wrong people. Be annoyed at the lenient judiciary. Be annoyed at the politicians for not taking action. Be annoyed because people get off on technicalities due to poorly worded laws.

If you really want to make a difference, go and lobby for changes in the above.

Just like any other Garda thread, this one has no future as soon as the good 'ol Gatso vans get dragged in to it.

Odysseus

IvySlayer wrote: »

I think Garda have lost faith in the justice system. They don't want to go around arresting junkies/dealers for the paperwork and the 1 month suspended sentences given out by the judges.

Tougher sentences is the answer. Get caught dealing, locked up for 5 years. Get caught dealing again, 10 years etc etc.

Anyone who has drugs on them need tough sentences too. Out of your head on a illegal substance, 6 months inside, lets face it, some people make mistakes. Second offence, 2 years. And so on and so forth.

Then we'd need more prisons built. Arghhhh.

If drug dealers/junkies are actually being punished, then Gardaí might have the motivation to do arrest them.

Christ, that is one of the worst solutions to addiction I have ever come across, there are approx 15,000 heroin addicts in treatment in Dublin alone, you can x 3 to capture those not in treatment. Where are you going to place these people.

People have been taking chemicals in one form or another since we moved out of caves. How can we attempt to rehabilitate those who are ready to move on, if we just make criminals out of them. Really, posts like this totally misunderstand any concept of addiction.

The reality of the drugs situation in dublin.

There are a lot more drug users and dealers than there are gardai ever working at any one time.

Gardai have to deal with other problems, like theft from the person, theft from establisments, rapes, assaults, criminal damage, burglarys, car thefts, bicycle thefts, etc. Junkies just need to score drugs.

Gardai while dealing with all of the above have to patrol their district which can be between jervis street and east wall.

If a garda arrests a single junkie in possession of drugs for their own use they need to get them back to the station. if this is a garda on the beat then they will need a car or a van. thats one beat and one mobile patrol gone for up to an hour between them.

Get a dealer and you can be off the streets for up to 7 days.

Whatever drugs are found have to be sent for analysis to prove that they are drugs. This takes weeks.

The courts are another story.

Mr Jinx

Detour wrote: »

The NYPD managed to clean up most areas of Manhattan by implementing some of the steps suggested by Degsy. In the early nineties areas like Times Sq. were bogged down with drug dealers, pimps, porn peddlers but the cops more or less cleaned up the entire area. The cops came in and made life hell for these law-breakers. It was just to much of a headache to stay, so they began moving out to BK, Queens, Bronx. Now Manhattan feels like one of the safest areas i've ever been to.

Now i'm not by any means suggesting that the problems were solved - merely that they were moved out of the City Centre, and this is what Dublin needs. At least the City Centre should be a crime free zone - these guys should be pushed out to the suburbs, so at least the tourist industry is not interrupted.

The cops should make it way too much hassle for these dealers. If these guys were picked up every day for a week, they'd move out of the city centre pretty quickly.

As to actually solving the problem of drugdealers, thats a much bigger question. But at least with the above the city centre would be clean.

Most of these people are picked up every day for searches, possession of drugs, shoplifting etc. that doesnt deter them, its just part of their day and wont moving them out to the suburbs will just start another thread about how the gaurds are not doing anything against drug dealers where families live. To be honest I cant see any viable solutions.

Terrontress

psni wrote: »

Absolutely. Far more illegal.

There is no such thing as "Far more illegal".

Something is either illegal or legal. There can be no shades of grey.

PSNI, how do you find that open drug dealing is pursued in the North?

Degsy

Degsy wrote: »

Zero tolerance..
Dont let them congregate in groups No law against this. Unless you think there would be a breach of the peace. Usually there won't be.

Dont let them deal in public Gardai deal with this when spotted.

Dont release them on bail when they have 50+ convictions Previous convictions is not a reason to object to bail or refuse it.

Dont turn a blind eye to open drug dealing As above

DO move them on If they are causing a public order problem they will be moved. And when they are moved they go somewhere else and do the exact same thing.

DO confiscate thier drugs Gardai do

DO arrest them for possesion As above. My previous post outlines what happens when this happens.

DO search them whenever you see them acting suspiciously Gardai will search when there are reasonable grounds. Section 23 MDA.

DO leave the safety of the GPO and take a wander up the quays and boardwalk and sorrounding area. As ERU pointed out this is a post and the member is not supposed to leave. If you have a problem with this write to the superintendent in Store Street.

DO hassle them into leaving the area That is against the law.

DO take thier children into care Only if section 12 of the childcare act comes into play.

I'm not unaware that this would be a major undertaking but its necessary to stop the probelm spiraling even more out of control and driving other social probelms through the roof to say nothing of lost revenue from tourists and local business.

Its our city..not the junkies'

Terrontress wrote: »

There is no such thing as "Far more illegal".

Something is either illegal or legal. There can be no shades of grey.

Read my points above. A lot of what is being asked to be done is against laws in place or the constitution. Try some of them and it's hello high court and the garda is the defendant.

arybvtcw0eolkf

psni wrote: »

Just like any other Garda thread, this one has no future as soon as the good 'ol Gatso vans get dragged in to it.

Why?.

Terrontress

foreign wrote: »

Read my points above. A lot of what is being asked to be done is against laws in place or the constitution. Try some of them and it's hello high court and the garda is the defendant.

Do you understand what I have written?

Something can not be more illegal than something else. There are crimes with greater severity than others but both are illegal.

I know it is not in a Garda's remit to understand the finer points of law but that is fairly basic.

Shield

Terrontress wrote: »

There is no such thing as "Far more illegal".

I am aware of that. No fundamental law lesson needed here thanks. It was faulty logic answering to faulty logic questioning, and it was directed to the person who asked, and it seemed to have worked.

Terrontress wrote: »

PSNI, how do you find that open drug dealing is pursued in the North?

It varies depending on where you go. Nowhere near as bad as it is in Dublin though. Last time I was down there I was amazed to see the volume of open dealing, but I'm smart enough not to blame the Gardai.

Terrontress

psni wrote: »

I am aware of that. No fundamental law lesson needed here thanks. It was faulty logic answering to faulty logic questioning, and it was directed to the person who asked, and it seemed to have worked.


It varies depending on where you go. Nowhere near as bad as it is in Dublin though. Last time I was down there I was amazed to see the volume of open dealing, but I'm smart enough not to blame the Gardai.

Well, I'm aware that you can't blame the rank and file Gardai who have to use the same streets and are aware that their families are out and about so they share the same concerns as the rest of us. The Department of Justice, including senior Garda management, have on the other hand made a hames of the situation.

There is a mentality on here of Gardai with their heads in the sand and some members offering the excuse that they aren't aware it is an issue because it stops when someone in a uniform approaches them. My response to that is surely they don't wear their uniform on the way in to work and are subject to the same happenings as Joe Public.

Going back to several points previously though, I am aware of exactly the same situation of drugs being openly bought and sold in Brixton in London and Kaiserstrasse in Frankfurt. The police in both places would seem to be better resourced than AGS but they still let it slide so it is not by any means a problem particular to Dublin or Ireland.

I'm in favour of a Hamsterdam from The Wire. While it is being tolerated, as at present, why not tolerate it in a very specific location and then come down hard on those outside of that location. At least that way we don't have to have our noses rubbed in it.