Quads on Lugnaquilla

gsxr1

That would be grown over in less than a year. FACT. I know because I mark enduro race tracks annually. The same tracks each year. When we come back each year, its like there was never a bike there. ever
The countryside is Massive .. So a little tiny bit of growth is dug up!!! What is that. 1/5 acre LOL Smaller than the car park that was dug out of the mountain so you could park and walk.

.. live and let live for a change...
dry up. the land will.


like 500 people walking the same trail does no damage. :rolleyes:

sooo sick of crap from the ever righteous walking brigade..

gsxr1

.....

gsxr1

gsxr1 wrote: »

That would be grown over in less than a year. FACT. I know because I mark enduro race tracks annually. The same tracks each year. When we come back each year, its like there was never a bike there. ever.

Which is fair enough. On the other hand I have seen a few quads tear a track along the side of a hill in winter that fills with water which runs along it, stripping it, and leaves a scar that cannot be so quickly replaced. Would you accept that this happens?

gsxr1 wrote: »

The countryside is Massive .. So a little tiny bit of growth is dug up!!! What is that. 1/5 acre LOL Smaller than the car park that was dug out of the mountain so you could park and walk.

Fly tipping covers such a tiny area of land too. Less than 1/5 acre a time on average I'll wager.

gsxr1 wrote: »

dry up...
sooo sick of crap from the ever righteous walking brigade..

Steady on.

gsxr1 wrote: »

like 500 people walking the same trail does no damage. :rolleyes:

That is valid. Not sure anyone here likes to see 500 people marching along a trail though. I don't.

gsxr1 wrote: »

Do you really think the garda are going to enforce this. If they could. Do you really think they would catch them. No.

I trust you are not supporting anyone breaking the law?

gsxr1 wrote: »

And its never going to stop.

Um, the recent legislation suggests they may be taking steps to do just that. I thought they'd never stop us smoking in pubs, I got that wrong.

gsxr1

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is fair enough. On the other hand I have seen a few quads tear a track along the side of a hill in winter that fills with water which runs along it, stripping it, and leaves a scar that cannot be so quickly replaced. Would you accept that this happens?



Fly tipping covers such a tiny area of land too. Less than 1/5 acre a time on average I'll wager.



Steady on.



That is valid. Not sure anyone here likes to see 500 people marching along a trail though. I don't.



I trust you are not supporting anyone breaking the law?



Um, the recent legislation suggests they may be taking steps to do just that. I thought they'd never stop us smoking in pubs, I got that wrong.

I accept i was a little harse on my last posts . Wine induced . sorry for any offence caused.

I do accept that
trench marks would be left behind by something like quads, but are hardly noticeable to anyone after time. These guys are more than likely following a trail that existed anyways. I know it pisses walkers off as it makes a mess in the short term.
I do believe these anti motorsport groups have got their priority's all wrong. close to me is a bog that has been completely destroyed by peat harvest, most to be sent to the UK for gardens. Not one bit off wildlife or vegetation is left to see for miles.
When this is going on it seems a shame that a few lads on quads who do little or no long term damage are being targeted.


I dont really care for bylaws put in place, so large groups or organisations such as walkers can have everything up there to themselves. As an offroad rider I feel this is the case.
I cant speak for the bog in question, but we use the forests(which is all going to be harvested in years to come anyway.)
I know that the garda dont care for these bylaws as I have been stopped on the way out of the forest. Covered from head to toe in mud, Asked for tax and insurance and let told to clean off my lights and reg. and sent on my way. Thats it.

the forestry dont care. As long as no one gets hurt up there. People riding and walking up there has no effect on their job at all. I do take exception to riders who speed on fire roads . And our group is quick to remind others to slow down .


instead of setting up websites and clubs to fight these guys. Why not approch them and set a side an area that they can use. Keep the noise in the one place. Somewhere out of sight. they would follow

Im telling for a fact. They wont go away and no one will be able to stop them. They have fast vehicles that are designed to move through that ground . Who can catch them? rules or no rules. They wont care. Its their sport and they will find a way to keep going. This may be wrong and unPC.
If I where to set up a rule that states you are not allowed on a public hill, would you follow it. Im guessing no.

compromise is the only way walkers are going to deal with this.

cavedave

Is banning and opening a hunting season on quads the best path?

Climbers have a governing body and between the MCI and other climbers there is fairly good self regulation to stop destruction of the countryside. Climbers do not bolt every available space because the MCI who they respect tells them not to. And because other climbers seriously frown on unnecessary bolting.

Cavers in a similar way don't access certain caves where the land owners do not want them. This again is done through the national body (the SUI) and other cavers who frown on people who act in ways that give the sport a bad name.

If the quad bikers set up an organisation that advised them on suitable locations and if the they started enforcing reasonable behaviour amongst each other might this not be a solution?

gsxr1

gsxr1 wrote: »

I accept i was a little harse on my last posts . Wine induced . sorry for any offence caused.

No offence taken.

gsxr1 wrote: »

I do believe these anti motorsport groups have got their priority's all wrong. close to me is a bog that has been completely destroyed by peat harvest, most to be sent to the UK for gardens. Not one bit off wildlife or vegetation is left to see for miles.
When this is going on it seems a shame that a few lads on quads who do little or no long term damage are being targeted.

I agree with the first paragraph. On the other hand, I do not agree that a few lads on quads who do little or no long term damage are being targetted. For myself I am just dealing with the quads that tear around hilldsides doing long term damage.

gsxr1 wrote: »

I dont really care for bylaws put in place, so large groups or organisations such as walkers can have everything up there to themselves. As an offroad rider I feel this is the case.

I suspect a lot of walkers feel the opposite, that roads like the old Kenmare Killarney road were churned up by scramblers for years and not one thing was done about it, and even now there are few places you can go where you can guarantee that you won't be greeted by the sight of tracks signalling that quads have torn it up first.

gsxr1 wrote: »

I cant speak for the bog in question, but we use the forests(which is all going to be harvested in years to come anyway.)
I know that the garda dont care for these bylaws as I have been stopped on the way out of the forest. Covered from head to toe in mud, Asked for tax and insurance and let told to clean off my lights and reg. and sent on my way. Thats it.

To be honest, the thought of quads whizzing around commercial forests doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, as I like to walk on open hills and mountains, for me it is the ideal location for them, and as you correctly say these places will not exactly be preserved forever.

gsxr1 wrote: »

Who can catch them? rules or no rules. They wont care. Its their sport and they will find a way to keep going. This may be wrong and unPC.

I guess that's what sites like the one the subject of this thread are for, the aid any prosecution and get evidence for the authorities.

gsxr1 wrote: »

compromise is the only way walkers are going to deal with this.

Well you and I have already agreed one, leave me the open hills, you keep the ugly forests!

dogmatix

cavedave wrote: »

If the quad bikers set up an organisation that advised them on suitable locations and if the they started enforcing reasonable behaviour amongst each other might this not be a solution?

This would be a good idea - if I knew scramblers and quads would be frequenting area-A on the weekend, I would happily plan my hike for area-B.

A possible problem with this is that the quad/scrambler activity appears to attract a certain significant anti-social element, at least in those areas close to Dublin. I could not see that sub-section of quad/scrambler users taking any notice of such plans and they would continue to go where ever they wanted.

And of course on the other side, there would be always some walkers would would make a point of walking in area-A because they feel they have a right to do so.

But if the quad/scrambler fraternity where to set up their own organisation and plan something like the above it might eventually work. It would be better then the current situation anyhow.

gsxr1

dogmatix wrote: »

This would be a good idea - if I knew scramblers and quads would be frequenting area-A on the weekend, I would happily plan my hike for area-B.

A possible problem with this is that the quad/scrambler activity appears to attract a certain significant anti-social element, at least in those areas close to Dublin. I could not see that sub-section of quad/scrambler users taking any notice of such plans and they would continue to go where ever they wanted.

And of course on the other side, there would be always some walkers would would make a point of walking in area-A because they feel they have a right to do so.

But if the quad/scrambler fraternity where to set up their own organisation and plan something like the above it might eventually work. It would be better then the current situation anyhow.

most scramblers are of the mountains by 12-1am to be home for dinner and the motogp.

cavedave

How were mountain bikers looked upon ten years ago? I vaguely remember warnings that they
1. Destroyed the land
2. Were a dangerous menace to walkers
3. Stole children's dental enamel

Now mountain biking gets loads of people into the outdoors, has clubs that organise paths. It has parks set up around the country. They are so much part of the mainstream they used them on that tourism add with the CGI whale.

I don't think mountain bikers ever had the same level of reputation scramblers have now. And mountain bikers like the rest of us are far from perfect. But I still think there might be hope to make quad bikers/scramblers respectable.

quadsofflug

gsxr1 wrote: »

I do accept that trench marks would be left behind by something like quads, but are hardly noticeable to anyone after time. These guys are more than likely following a trail that existed anyways. I know it pisses walkers off as it makes a mess in the short term.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you about it being short term damage. Look at this photo...



The damage in the foreground was caused by bikes, there was no track here before bikes started going up Lug a few years ago. This is not short term damage, it will never recover, it's eroded right down to the rock. the track you can see on Lug in the background is exactly the same - it will never recover either. This is not the same kind of damage you see after an enduro event. I completely agree that the damage caused by those event soon disappears and have no problem with them whatsoever. However the summit of Lug is a very different place to the forests, growth is very slow up there and vegetation recovers much, much more slowly - its just not a suitable place for vehicles of any kind.

They have now started a parallel track coz the existing one has become too eroded, the same thing will happen to that. Will they then start a third track - when will it stop? Remember there was no track here at all four years ago.

More photos on www.quadsofflug.com

gsxr1 wrote: »

I do believe these anti motorsport groups have got their priority's all wrong. close to me is a bog that has been completely destroyed by peat harvest, most to be sent to the UK for gardens. Not one bit off wildlife or vegetation is left to see for miles.

That sounds like a perfect place for quad and scrambler bikes to go I personally feel the same way about forestry - I couldn't care less what you do in there. I'm not anti-motor sport, I just feel that not everywhere is suitable for it. There are plenty of places suitable for motorsports but not vulnerable open hillside.

gsxr1 wrote: »

They wont go away and no one will be able to stop them. They have fast vehicles that are designed to move through that ground . Who can catch them? rules or no rules. They wont care. Its their sport and they will find a way to keep going. This may be wrong and unPC.

There's at least one prosecution pending in the Slieve Blooms at the moment - so much for you'll never catch us.

It's NPWS not the gaurdai who are responsible for enforcing the new laws and they do care! In the UK it's been hill walkers reporting where the vehicles are on the hills and which direction they're going that have resulted in prosecutions. If the rangers know where the bikes are all they have to do is wait at the bottom for them to appear and nab them as they come back onto the road.

So hill walkers, mobiles to the ready! Details of who to call are on quadsofflug.com or the NPWS website.

dogmatix

cavedave wrote: »

How were mountain bikers looked upon ten years ago? I vaguely remember warnings that they
1. Destroyed the land
2. Were a dangerous menace to walkers
3. Stole children's dental enamel

I have vague memories of this too - but I don't think it was ever seriously accepted, probably because the evidence was never that strong. This is not the case with regards to scramblers and quads.

Personally I don't and have never had any problems with mountain bikers (and pony trekkers).

Mickeroo

Mountain bikes are nowhere near as destructive as quads. Both quad biking and mountain biking are something I have enjoyed in the past, but they are both sports which are much more enjoyable, IMO anyway, on purpose built trails.

I see a previous poster remarked that the country side in Ireland is "massive", the sad fact of the matter is that this country is starved of any natural lansdscape, we have some of the smallest and least biodiverse areas of wilderness in europe, technically really we don't actually have any wilderness as all our "wild" areas and national parks are products of deforestation and over intensive agriculture, be it connemara or the burren.

Wanting quads out of areas like Lugnaquille is not walkers being self righteous or wanting the mountains all to themselves, at least in most cases anyway, its people wanting to preserve what little wildlife and wide open spaces we have left and also preserve a vital aspect of our countries heritage. I have loved the mountains since I was a child and I love everything to do with them, the mountains in Ireland,though small compared to other countries, are a beautiful and unique environment that should be cherished and respected by everyone who uses them be they walkers, climbers or bikers.

pberetta

ASK ANY ONE THATS LIVING AROUND LUGG, HILL WALKERS ARE NOT THAT POPULAR THEY BUY NOTING IN THE LOCAL SHOPS WANT TO USE THE TOILETS IN THE PUBS AND STILL BUY NOTING BRING THERE PACKED LUNCH AND DONT ALWAYS TIDY UP TRESSPASS AND THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGTH OF WAY THROUGH FARMERS LAND I USE MY QUAD TO LOOK AFTER SHEEP ON LUG AND WALKERS LOOK DOWN THERE NOSE AT YOU SO DONT THINK YOUR ARE GODS GIFTS AND OWNED THE PLACE

dogmatix

pberetta wrote: »

ASK ANY ONE THATS LIVING AROUND LUGG, HILL WALKERS ARE NOT THAT POPULAR THEY BUY NOTING IN THE LOCAL SHOPS WANT TO USE THE TOILETS IN THE PUBS AND STILL BUY NOTING BRING THERE PACKED LUNCH AND DONT ALWAYS TIDY UP TRESSPASS AND THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGTH OF WAY THROUGH FARMERS LAND I USE MY QUAD TO LOOK AFTER SHEEP ON LUG AND WALKERS LOOK DOWN THERE NOSE AT YOU SO DONT THINK YOUR ARE GODS GIFTS AND OWNED THE PLACE

1. Using a quad for work purposes can't be argued with. No problem there. You will always get a minority of people in any activity who will look down on others.
2. I would disagree with the generalisation about walkers being litterbugs - my own experience is the opposite.
3. I was not aware of there being any shops in and around Lug to support - apart from the glenmalure lodge.

Donny5

dogmatix wrote: »

I was not aware of there being any shops in and around Lug to support - apart from the glenmalure lodge.

Maybe he's talking about the Glen of Imaal side.

Alun

Donny5 wrote: »

Maybe he's talking about the Glen of Imaal side.

There's not a huge amount over that side either .. there's Fenton's pub in Seskin (if they actually decide to open), a shop in Knockanarrigan (I think?) and a shop and 2 pubs in Donard, and that's about it as far as I can see.

hmmm

Alun wrote: »

There's not a huge amount over that side either .. there's Fenton's pub in Seskin (if they actually decide to open), a shop in Knockanarrigan (I think?) and a shop and 2 pubs in Donard, and that's about it as far as I can see.

Fentons is always packed with hillwalkers, he could make more money on sunny weekend days if he had 2 people serving. Donard tends to be lifeless, but it's too far out of the way anyway for walkers. It's not like the pubs there have made any effort to get hillwalkers into their premises.

It's a real pity going to Wales & Scotland (and the Lake District) and see the effort the local communities go to to encourage walking tourism, and then compare that to what happens over here. The Glenmalure lodge is one of the few places in Wicklow that seems welcoming to walkers and they do very well out of it (at the weekends at least ). There's a pub in Roundwood where the owner seems to actively go out of her way to scowl at hillwalkers and as a result has driven two clubs with several hundred members elsewhere.

dizzle with ur frizzle

wats wrong wi the odd one or two lads on quads up lug for a day out, not riping up the hills, jus takin it easy, gettin a break from all the hassle and dat from the recession, ive always been mad bout hills and views and wildlife. if i went up i wudn be riping it up.

dizzle with ur frizzle

pberetta wrote: »

ASK ANY ONE THATS LIVING AROUND LUGG, HILL WALKERS ARE NOT THAT POPULAR THEY BUY NOTING IN THE LOCAL SHOPS WANT TO USE THE TOILETS IN THE PUBS AND STILL BUY NOTING BRING THERE PACKED LUNCH AND DONT ALWAYS TIDY UP TRESSPASS AND THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGTH OF WAY THROUGH FARMERS LAND I USE MY QUAD TO LOOK AFTER SHEEP ON LUG AND WALKERS LOOK DOWN THERE NOSE AT YOU SO DONT THINK YOUR ARE GODS GIFTS AND OWNED THE PLACE

this person is dead right, i was up one day on my quad. i took my time, wen i got to top i stopped, said hello to a walker, he didn say hello back but looked, are all walkers this up tight thinkin they are better then me cause i had a quad, tell uz walkers one thing, if i was up lug in snow and bad conditions, and came across a hill walker that had fell and had hit his/her head and hurted themselves badly, but had no way of getting help, well id be first to get u down off lug.. bet uz wud only be happy to jump on then.. so before u all criticize people for being up on quads, just think that maybe some day u might be happy to see some one a quad.... yes i do agree that some spots are slightly damaged, but wat wud be worse, a man talkin a spin across lug or him goin into a town, robing a car, driving it up under lug, in a forest, setting it on fire, prob setting alight to wood and animal habitat.. so its like this, some people like walking, some like goin for a spin, a bit of lee way is neede here:mad:

duckysauce

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

this person is dead right, i was up one day on my quad. i took my time, wen i got to top i stopped, said hello to a walker, he didn say hello back but looked, are all walkers this up tight thinkin they are better then me cause i had a quad, tell uz walkers one thing, if i was up lug in snow and bad conditions, and came across a hill walker that had fell and had hit his/her head and hurted themselves badly, but had no way of getting help, well id be first to get u down off lug.. bet uz wud only be happy to jump on then.. so before u all criticize people for being up on quads, just think that maybe some day u might be happy to see some one a quad.... yes i do agree that some spots are slightly damaged, but wat wud be worse, a man talkin a spin across lug or him goin into a town, robing a car, driving it up under lug, in a forest, setting it on fire, prob setting alight to wood and animal habitat.. so its like this, some people like walking, some like goin for a spin, a bit of lee way is neede here:mad:

Thats why there is a mountain rescue team , this thread is also a year old.

dogmatix

This sounds like a trolling exercise to me...

dizzle with ur frizzle

duckysauce wrote: »

Thats why there is a mountain rescue team , this thread is also a year old.

oh very good answer!!!:rolleyes: cya up there duckysauce

duckysauce

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

oh very good answer!!!:rolleyes: cya up there duckysauce

if i do i will call the ranger - bm baby

TentCrasher

Should be no Quads on any national park climbs.

quadsofflug

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

but wat wud be worse, a man talkin a spin across lug or him goin into a town, robing a car, driving it up under lug, in a forest, setting it on fire, prob setting alight to wood and animal habitat..

Even I don't have such a low opinion of quad bikers. I had them down as just mindless vandals who didn't realise they were commiting a criminal offence and just weren't aware of the damage they were causing. You seem to view them as hardened criminals.

I don't really see them as any different to the yobs that left this graffiti on Carrauntoohil last week, see MI website. And the moral of that story is that a hillwalker reporting them to the Gardai meant they got caught and will be held responsible for their actions. So...... keep phoning the ranger when ever you see Quads on the hills, www.quadsofflug.com for details.

Needler

Great, fecking quad bikes should be banned now too.

Nobody is allowed to have their bit of fun anymore, with every hobby's die hards asserting their superiority over the others. The hunters can't hunt cause of the campers, the campers cant camp over the hunters, the quad bikers can't bike cause of the walkers and the walkers can't walk over the fecking quad bikers. can't we all get along?

Nothing wrong with a bit of quad biking on a gravel path or any other kind of path and I'm sure the "damage" being done by these is minimal except for maybe a few odd tools around the place.

I don't even have a fecking quad bike, I was looking at them on eBay earlier but before I put in a bid I made sure to check this forum to make sure I'm not about to join another oppressed hobby that is about to be banned by oh-so-perfect law-abiding everything-by-the-EU-book environmentalist bleeding heart urbanites on a relentless persuit to ruin the enjoyment of others. And sure enough...

hmmm

Needler wrote: »

Nobody is allowed to have their bit of fun anymore, with every hobby's die hards asserting their superiority over the others. The hunters can't hunt cause of the campers, the campers cant camp over the hunters, the quad bikers can't bike cause of the walkers and the walkers can't walk over the fecking quad bikers. can't we all get along?

Fight the power like man. Hunters, hikers & campers co-exist just fine, I don't know what you're on about. There's plenty of places for riding scramblers or quads, the few places you can't drive them is areas where the quads are hugely destructive to the environment. The other 99% of the country is open to you to destroy.

Needler

hmmm wrote: »

Fight the power like man. Hunters, hikers & campers co-exist just fine, I don't know what you're on about. There's plenty of places for riding scramblers or quads, the few places you can't drive them is areas where the quads are hugely destructive to the environment. The other 99% of the country is open to you to destroy.

If by plenty of places you mean ones with an entry fee, available only to those after getting a quad bike license, health n safety cert, insurance, garda vetting, subject to an endless list of rules then no thx.

simply going out on a sunday afternoon for a tear up the local mountain must be regulated out of existence and the only quad biking allowed will be on one of those dedicated tracks. pay, drive the quad bike till your time runs out, go home or be kicked out.

Hunting isn't allowed during the camping season and camping isn't allowed during the hunting season, according to coillllte website anyway

hmmm

Needler wrote: »

simply going out on a sunday afternoon for a tear up the local mountain must be regulated out of existence and the only quad biking allowed will be on one of those dedicated tracks. pay, drive the quad bike till your time runs out, go home or be kicked out.

Again this is done to protect the mountain, not to stop people enjoying themselves. Those responsible for protecting those few areas will ban anything that they consider excessively damages these areas, so no you can't drive quads/scramblers there, nor can you land helicopters or practice your JCB trench digging skills in the area.

If you don't like the law, you need to make a case why the law should be changed. Whining is not a valid argument.

Hunting and camping are regulated yes, otherwise some campers would end up shot. That's just basic common sense, I don't see campers whining that their "rights" to camp are being taken away from them by excessive health and safety rules. Probably because they're not stupid and realise the rules are there for a reason.

Needler

hmmm wrote: »

Again this is done to protect the mountain, not to stop people enjoying themselves. Those responsible for protecting those few areas will ban anything that they consider excessively damages these areas, so no you can't drive quads/scramblers there, nor can you land helicopters or practice your JCB trench digging skills in the area.

If you don't like the law, you need to make a case why the law should be changed. Whining is not a valid argument.

Hunting and camping are regulated yes, otherwise some campers would end up shot. That's just basic common sense, I don't see campers whining that their "rights" to camp are being taken away from them by excessive health and safety rules. Probably because they're not stupid and realise the rules are there for a reason.

Except for in the thread where they plan to ban it in Northern Ireland. Its not even health and safety, its outright banning just in case someone would do something stupid.

As for the quad bikes how hard is it to bring a few shovels of earth and a few pebbles to wherever the "damage" is allegedly happening and fill it in once a year? rather than banishing an entire hobby to a few dedicated pay-per-use tracks