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Fighting Irish

  • 26-07-2010 07:08AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭


    I am at a loss. Are the Irish people going to lie down and let the over inflated paid, inept politicians run the country into the ground. We fought the British to get our independence and now we reward the few who are ruining our country. Every day headlines about how retiring bankers, public servants people who were instrumental in the evolution of the bank guarantee top up their already lucrative pensions.

    What happened to the "fighting Irish" are we only fighting when we have a few (over priced) drinks. Gilmore has gained public support is that how we are going to change, is that our revolution!


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Bloody Nipples


    Well what are you doing about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Sorry "Bloody Nipples" with a name like that should you not be on an S& M forum.

    I know I am just as good lame, armchair politicians but basically I am at a loss as to what to do. I am as guilty as the majority of the public as Ellis O Hanlon wrote yesterday if there was a revolution in Ireland and rained we would all go home for a nice cup of tea.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    we have tv and internet now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    This thread presumably has a point - please reach towards that rather than commenting on the usernames of other forum members, which adds nothing.

    /mod


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    femur61 wrote: »
    Gilmore has gained public support is that how we are going to change, is that our revolution!

    God forbid!:rolleyes:
    You don't seem happy with the current shower and disenchanted by Gilmore's rise in popularity. You're painting yourself into a corner. Surely at this point some change would be nice...for a change?
    As for the Irish apathy, I'm 50/50 on the whole deal:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    femur61 wrote: »
    I am at a loss. Are the Irish people going to lie down and let the over inflated paid, inept politicians run the country into the ground. We fought the British to get our independence and now we reward the few who are ruining our country. Every day headlines about how retiring bankers, public servants people who were instrumental in the evolution of the bank guarantee top up their already lucrative pensions.

    What happened to the "fighting Irish" are we only fighting when we have a few (over priced) drinks. Gilmore has gained public support is that how we are going to change, is that our revolution!

    the time to do this was during the last few elections, but the 'fighting irish' continued to vote in a gang of fools.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Where is your manifesto, femur61? Didnt you make this in AH and it went down like a lead balloon like it is here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    It is symptomatic of the general malaise that has washed over the country - probably the reality hitting home that our choice of political parties makes little to no difference to the state of affairs as they are all utterly useless. Everyone is just waiting for something to happen, including it seems, the government.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    femur61 wrote: »
    I am at a loss. Are the Irish people going to lie down and let the over inflated paid, inept politicians run the country into the ground. We fought the British to get our independence and now we reward the few who are ruining our country. Every day headlines about how retiring bankers, public servants people who were instrumental in the evolution of the bank guarantee top up their already lucrative pensions.

    What happened to the "fighting Irish" are we only fighting when we have a few (over priced) drinks. Gilmore has gained public support is that how we are going to change, is that our revolution!

    Heres a suggestion. Establish a political party and run as a candidate. Develop a manifesto that is both economically consistent and politically feasible. Get people to believe you have the intelligence, ability, and know how to implement such changes.

    No? Better go back to the pub and whinge to all your mates so. Like the rest of us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    femur61 wrote: »
    ... as Ellis O Hanlon wrote yesterday ....

    Oh. My. God. You actually read The Sunday Independent?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Oh. My. God. You actually read The Sunday Independent?

    Yeah we read it at our Adult Literacy Class!

    The reason I am feel I'm at a loss is, as a mother of three young children I don't have the energy or time to develop or maintain a political party. At presnt the feeling I and many of my friends is that we are rearing our children for export like so many of my friends and family that have furter a field. I will support others who do something and I don't frequent the pub so don't winge there with my "mates". We will have a serious brain drain if something is not done soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭BeardyGit


    Ah, so you're having a little whinge then, is that it? You've a complaint but no solution. You don't have to start a party - Just elect decent politicians locally and push them constantly to do a good job and look out for the interests of your community as a whole.

    It's hardly that difficult for someone capable of raising three children, is it?

    Enough of the moaning. Spend your time championing a local cause that's close to your heart rather than whinging at faceless people on the computer.

    And do yourself a favour and tell your adult literacy teacher you want to read a different paper. Nothing good has ever come from reading the Independent, even if it's in 'broad sheet' format.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    femur61 wrote: »
    Yeah we read it at our Adult Literacy Class!

    The reason I am feel I'm at a loss is, as a mother of three young children I don't have the energy or time to develop or maintain a political party. At presnt the feeling I and many of my friends is that we are rearing our children for export like so many of my friends and family that have furter a field. I will support others who do something and I don't frequent the pub so don't winge there with my "mates". We will have a serious brain drain if something is not done soon.

    The problem is that its too easy and frankly boring when 'the politicians' (As if they are one homogenous, autonomous entity) are blamed for everything. OP, did you buy shít you didn't need at the height of the boom and then got surprised like everyone else when your second credit cart bounced? You are just as culpable as any politician if you ask me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    RoverCraft wrote: »
    Enough of the moaning. Spend your time championing a local cause that's close to your heart rather than whinging at faceless people on the computer.

    isnt that a bit of head in the sand approach? you might as well suggest to go out and kick a football


    OP, I think your issue is that this little democracy you live in is full an contradictions and you are feeling the fustration of it. There is a good quote from Atlas Shrugged below, you might as well chill or go out and kick a football:D
    "You propose to establish a social order based on the following tenets: that you're incompetent to run your own life, but competent to run the lives of others -- that you're unfit to exist in freedom, but fit to become an omnipotent ruler -- that you're unable to earn your living by use of your own intelligence, but able to judge politicians and vote them into jobs of total power over arts you have never seen, over sciences you have never studied, over achievements of which you have no knowledge, over the gigantic industries where you, by your own definition of capacity, would be unable successfully to fill the job of assistant greaser."
    John Galt

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭whadabouchasir


    femur61 wrote: »
    I am at a loss. Are the Irish people going to lie down and let the over inflated paid, inept politicians run the country into the ground.
    Simple,just vote for different ones the next time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    They were shot and betrayed by their own.And the rest died :(

    But been honest i think that term came from pub brawls in US and England :D

    Some one is needed to stand up and lead. Unfortunately doesnt seem to be any around :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Did we buy at height of boom = no

    Did I envision 2 children with special needs = no.

    Did I ever vote FF = no (could not stand B. Ahern, to me he personified lies)

    Did I finish my M.Sc = no.

    I am bitter = yes.

    Why = the country was based on lies. Not because of my beautiful children needing care or I didn't fulfil my dreams of completing my studies but because my husband has to work two jobs to sustain our overheads due to inept spending of all the taxes collected during the property boom.

    Yes, I am having a rant and am not egotistical enough to want the lime light of politics. I do not need public acknowledgment to satisfy my ego but I would like if people went into politics for the correct reasons. Not because they have a family history or are a teacher and see it as "the other job" where they get comparable holidays.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    There is a brand new bus stop I'm told in UCD. So, it's not all bad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    femur61 wrote: »
    Did we buy at height of boom = no

    Did I envision 2 children with special needs = no.

    Did I ever vote FF = no (could not stand B. Ahern, to me he personified lies)

    Did I finish my M.Sc = no.

    I am bitter = yes.

    Why = the country was based on lies. Not because of my beautiful children needing care or I didn't fulfil my dreams of completing my studies but because my husband has to work two jobs to sustain our overheads due to inept spending of all the taxes collected during the property boom.

    Yes, I am having a rant and am not egotistical enough to want the lime light of politics. I do not need public acknowledgment to satisfy my ego but I would like if people went into politics for the correct reasons. Not because they have a family history or are a teacher and see it as "the other job" where they get comparable holidays.

    When I look over my past a number of life decisions I have made were due to limited choices based on the Fianna Fail government at the time. I of course include coalitions with parties bereft of a backbone, and it's in the least frustrating. I would like to say it was coincidence, economic climate etc. but I honestly believe Fianna Fail are at fault. FFail supporters need ask themselves why as they put it is there so much 'ranting' 'bashing'? I would be quite happy to support FFail if they warranted such support, but the don't. It's that straight forward. I firmly believe they cause misery, deaths (HSE) and as long as they get the votes, don't care in the slightest. Peoples lives mean little to them.
    We as a people need to think nationally, not locally. I understand peoples need to look after their neighbourhood first, rest of the country second, but it's not working. In local elections I go by the man, in general, I go with the man also but the track record of the party carries more weight.
    I honestly do not know what it would take for the people, the written off majority to for one vote and secondly simply say enough is enough. Leading parties in any country love apathy. It means those disgruntled won't vote. They love that. 'They are all the same' works great for FFail.
    Basically I know where you're coming from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭Frogeye


    When I look over my past a number of life decisions I have made were due to limited choices based on the Fianna Fail government at the time. I of course include coalitions with parties bereft of a backbone, and it's in the least frustrating. I would like to say it was coincidence, economic climate etc. but I honestly believe Fianna Fail are at fault. FFail supporters need ask themselves why as they put it is there so much 'ranting' 'bashing'? I would be quite happy to support FFail if they warranted such support, but the don't. It's that straight forward. I firmly believe they cause misery, deaths (HSE) and as long as they get the votes, don't care in the slightest. Peoples lives mean little to them.
    We as a people need to think nationally, not locally. I understand peoples need to look after their neighbourhood first, rest of the country second, but it's not working. In local elections I go by the man, in general, I go with the man also but the track record of the party carries more weight.
    I honestly do not know what it would take for the people, the written off majority to for one vote and secondly simply say enough is enough. Leading parties in any country love apathy. It means those disgruntled won't vote. They love that. 'They are all the same' works great for FFail.
    Basically I know where you're coming from.


    Do you honestly believe that things would be all that different if FG or Labour had run the country for the last 10 years? Honestly? FG or Labour would have do 90-95% the exact same as FF. They all do what will keep them in power not what is right.
    The people ( or 60 % of the people, the ones who can drag themselves away from their 50" flat screen TV and sat channels and bother to vote) elect the TD's, the TD's make a balls of it. Who do you blame the TD's or the people who put them there?

    If Labour/FG were in power , nobody in the care of the HSE would die? Nobody would be miserable? I suppose the country would turn in to that magical mystical land of chocolate that homer simpson visits!!!!!!!

    I agree we need to think nationally not locally. Your spot on there. But instead of complaining why don't you go and do something about it. Educate yourself,get involved in your community, improve yourself, volunteer to help people less well off than you, train a kids football team, work harder at what ever job you do, start your own business, call your local TD and lobby him/her for whatever it is you think needs to be changes etc etc. All these things make a difference, albeit a small one.But if everyone did them, the country would be a far better place.

    These are small simple but important things we can all do right now instead of moaning. Maybe you do already, I don't know you, but alot of people just want to sit back , blame someone else and wait for it to be handed to them. Its not going to happen. I'm not waiting for it and I'm certainly not going to wait for a politican to do it for me.

    And by the way, its not just Ireland having this discussion. I travel alot and every country I've been too is having the same debate.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Frogeye wrote: »
    Do you honestly believe that things would be all that different if FG or Labour had run the country for the last 10 years? Honestly?
    Honestly, yes.
    Frogeye wrote: »
    FG or Labour would have do 90-95% the exact same as FF.
    We will never know for sure, but I believe that to be crazy talk.
    Frogeye wrote: »
    The people ( or 60 % of the people, the ones who can drag themselves away from their 50" flat screen TV and sat channels and bother to vote) elect the TD's, the TD's make a balls of it. Who do you blame the TD's or the people who put them there?
    The ones who voted FFail to an extent, but to be fair I'm sure a number of them may be having second thoughts at this time. Only the hardcore 'always FFail no matter what' crew are as equally to blame as those making a 'balls of it'.
    Frogeye wrote: »
    If Labour/FG were in power , nobody in the care of the HSE would die? Nobody would be miserable? I suppose the country would turn in to that magical mystical land of chocolate that homer simpson visits!!!!!!!
    I feel their economic policies cause are causing misery. During 'the boom' they did not assign enough attention or concern to the health service, (or education for that matter). They had great opportunity to invest in our quality of life, but didn't see a quick buck in it and didn't give these areas the attention they could/should have. This I believe lead to unnecessary and avoidable deaths, on say trolleys, waiting for operations, misdiagnosis etc. So I believe a lot of misery and death would be avoided had they not had the run of the place for so long.
    Frogeye wrote: »
    I agree we need to think nationally not locally. Your spot on there. But instead of complaining why don't you go and do something about it. Educate yourself,get involved in your community, improve yourself, volunteer to help people less well off than you, train a kids football team, work harder at what ever job you do, start your own business, call your local TD and lobby him/her for whatever it is you think needs to be changes etc etc. All these things make a difference, albeit a small one.But if everyone did them, the country would be a far better place.
    These are small simple but important things we can all do right now instead of moaning. Maybe you do already, I don't know you, but alot of people just want to sit back , blame someone else and wait for it to be handed to them. Its not going to happen. I'm not waiting for it and I'm certainly not going to wait for a politican to do it for me.
    I do/have done a number of those things listed above. However I do expect politicians to do things for me (I pay them to), which is why I won't vote FFail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    RonMexico wrote: »
    It is symptomatic of the general malaise that has washed over the country - probably the reality hitting home that our choice of political parties makes little to no difference to the state of affairs as they are all utterly useless. Everyone is just waiting for something to happen, including it seems, the government.

    I think that this observation has hit the nail squarely on the head. We are not mired in a deep malaise yet, but there seems to be an air of apprehension.. Ireland is currently adrift in a rudderless vessel


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    What's more amusing is how much control people think politicians have over economies. They give them praise when the economy does well, and blame them when to does poorly never at any point stepping back and thinking about how no matter what country you pick, there's an economic cycle of booms and busts and they happen regardless of what party was in power at the time.


    There's a ****load of stuff we can blame FF for, and politicians in general for (c.f. planning at local council level for a wonderful example of politicians ****ing up something in their control) but are FF responsible for the bust? No more than they were responsible for the boom.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    nesf wrote: »
    What's more amusing is how much control people think politicians have over economies. They give them praise when the economy does well, and blame them when to does poorly never at any point stepping back and thinking about how no matter what country you pick, there's an economic cycle of booms and busts and they happen regardless of what party was in power at the time.


    There's a ****load of stuff we can blame FF for, and politicians in general for (c.f. planning at local council level for a wonderful example of politicians ****ing up something in their control) but are FF responsible for the bust? No more than they were responsible for the boom.
    I disagree. How and to what extent a boom or bust affects everyday people is very much coloured by the design of government. The boom for instance can be argued changed little to improve the lives of most people, the bust however is being distributed equally to any and all. They can feed a boom and feed a bust. They did both in my view. Feeding the boom in not preparing for or even acknowledging their would ever be a bust.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    I disagree. How and to what extent a boom or bust affects everyday people is very much coloured by the design of government. The boom for instance can be argued changed little to improve the lives of most people, the bust however is being distributed equally to any and all. They can feed a boom and feed a bust. They did both in my view. Feeding the boom in not preparing for or even acknowledging their would ever be a bust.

    The people demanded the boom be fed, more Gardaí, bigger hospitals, more Teachers, more money for Special Needs kids, more roads, you name it the people asked for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Wouldn't it be great if we could just take the country by force and let the people run the country? I'm only a young fella of 20 so I'm probably still kinda idealistic.

    Everyone had become so happy with the status quo, they burried their heads in the sand. Of course not everyone, there was people shouting warnings all over the place!

    I'd love some kinda revolution where the people put in their own government. After all they're ment to be our servents not the other way around.

    Any suggestions for a "National Takeover"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    chops1990 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be great if we could just take the country by force and let the people run the country? I'm only a young fella of 20 so I'm probably still kinda idealistic.

    Everyone had become so happy with the status quo, they burried their heads in the sand. Of course not everyone, there was people shouting warnings all over the place!

    I'd love some kinda revolution where the people put in their own government. After all they're ment to be our servents not the other way around.

    Any suggestions for a "National Takeover"?

    God (or whoever) spare us from mobs.

    We can achieve a national takeover by voting in a different set of politicians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    nesf wrote: »
    What's more amusing is how much control people think politicians have over economies. They give them praise when the economy does well, and blame them when to does poorly never at any point stepping back and thinking about how no matter what country you pick, there's an economic cycle of booms and busts and they happen regardless of what party was in power at the time....

    The government is the biggest actor in the economy and, in most circumstances, has considerable freedom to steer the ship and trim the sails. Different approaches to taxing and spending could have moderated the property boom greatly; a different model of financial regulation might have steered banks away from funding daft investments; some of the spending largesse was irresponsibly extravagant (for example, the free medical card for the elderly).

    Yes, the economic cycle exists. Government can do a lot to smooth it out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    The government is the biggest actor in the economy and, in most circumstances, has considerable freedom to steer the ship and trim the sails. Different approaches to taxing and spending could have moderated the property boom greatly; a different model of financial regulation might have steered banks away from funding daft investments; some of the spending largesse was irresponsibly extravagant (for example, the free medical card for the elderly)

    Yes and no. Financial regulation would have helped but it's easy to say in retrospect. The spending side of things is where FF can be lambasted, but most of it was "on the campaign literature" and wasn't done without large public support (c.f. the rises in the dole and pension etc).

    Could they have moderated the bubble? I'm not entirely convinced that they could have without bursting it. Regardless, any efforts to moderate the bubble would have had to be done in the face of massive public pressure (just look at how lauded the Government were for reducing the Stamp Duty people paid!).

    Bubbles are predictable, the public eggs on the Government to keep the good times rolling and will replace them with people who will if they won't comply.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,969 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    chops1990 wrote: »

    Any suggestions for a "National Takeover"?

    Yes, the next general election

    I've no desire for mob rule


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