Learners on Motorways

Mimikyu

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oldyouth

It makes no sense to prohibit learner drivers from using the motorway, yet they can burst away on them the day they pass their test, never having experienced it.

The problem, as I see it, is that a substantial amount of unqualified, untested drivers already use the main roads in breach of their permit conditions (accompanied by a qualfied driver) that I don't think they can be trusted to use motorways

CiniO

I personally thing lerner drivers should take at least 20 hours of lessons with instructor before they are allowed to drive their own car.
This lessons should include an hour or two of driving on the motorway.
After this L drivers should be allowed to drive on motoways while accompanied by a full licence holder.
And also on driving test there should be a part on a motorway. (i know it might be difficult to do especially in some rural areas)

Becasue to be honest when I see what people in Ireland do on motorways, i'm frightened.
As in Germany in many places there's no speed limits on motorway, and driving 200km/h is safe enought, then in Ireland 120km/h seems to be very dangerous considering what some of the motorway users do.

That's my opinion - first teach them how to drive there, and then allow them to do it themselves.

KingIsabella

I don't think that rule is much enforced anyway. Coming back from Dublin-Cork last year i had my sisters L Plates up, overtook a squad car at a decent enough speed and got absolutely no reaction whatsoever.

Cian92

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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I don't think the speed limit could be a reason, there are plenty of roads here in Cork which have the 120km limit that aren't motorways. On these roads there are no restrictions for learner drivers.

MagicMarker

KingIsabella wrote: »

I don't think that rule is much enforced anyway. Coming back from Dublin-Cork last year i had my sisters L Plates up, overtook a squad car at a decent enough speed and got absolutely no reaction whatsoever.

That was... smart.

Henry Ford III

Cian92 wrote: »

I don't think the speed limit could be a reason, there are plenty of roads here in Cork which have the 120km limit that aren't motorways. On these roads there are no restrictions for learner drivers.

Which ones?

KingIsabella

MagicMarker wrote: »

That was... smart.

It was only barely over the limit for overtaking. i was doing the speed limit, they weren't, i went around, back to the speed limit. But i had 2 big L Plates and had no trouble.

KingIsabella

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Which ones?

There's the road in cork from bandon roundabout down towards ballincollig isnt there? thats 120km but i don't think is a motorway.

oldyouth

Cian92 wrote: »

I don't think the speed limit could be a reason, there are plenty of roads here in Cork which have the 120km limit that aren't motorways. On these roads there are no restrictions for learner drivers.

You are joking, right????

Henry Ford III

KingIsabella wrote: »

There's the road in cork from bandon roundabout down towards ballincollig isnt there? thats 120km but i don't think is a motorway.

I thought the 120kph limit was exclusive to motorways.

KingIsabella

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I thought the 120kph limit was exclusive to motorways.

That road is definitly a 120km/h limit, but as memory serves i think all the signs are green.

oldyouth

The maximum National speed limit is 100kph with the exception of motorways, which are 120kph. Inner limits apply to the National speed limit for designated zones

Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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peanuthead

As someone once pointed out to me, it can sometimes be easier learning on a road like, for example a motorway, as learners get very used to cars coming up behind them, overtaking them and going on at a faster speed without the nerves all of this produces when it happens on smaller roads.

However, that said, I remember when I was learning that I was not very comfortable going over about 50mile an hour as I just didn't feel like I could control the car. The very odd time I did take to the motorway was sheer terror, as at a minimum of 60miles I just did not feel like I could control the car at all. And my inexperience meant that with say, a wet road, cross winds or a sudden end to a lane (admit it or not, although rarely, they have on occasion ended without warning) I wasn't in control, wouldn't react quick enough and therefore was a danger to other road users.

I think the big problem is that there is no training given on motorway etiquette. I remember one day nearly having a nervous breakdown because two women (I swear, not lying) were driving along at about 60miles an hour, each occupying the same stretch of the M4, each in a different lane!! Now that kind of idiocy really stretches my limits as a patient driver.

So to sum it up then, I think the existence of the rule makes sense in some ways, take me as a learner for example. The rule kept me off the motorways after I had that experience. If there was no rule, I would probably try again, expecting that this was part of the learning experience (which it is, but in time imo)

But there are others who are fine with it. And I also include myself in that because although I was a learner for 2 years, I was well capable of driving on the motorways after about 6 months.

djimi

It makes perfect sense to prohibit inexperienced potentially nervous and unskilled drivers from motorways where other cars are travelling at greater speed than on national or regional roads. Im sure there are a lot of learners who are quite capable of driving on motorways, but there are a lot who are also very much not, and laws are generally made with the lowest common denominator in mind.

You should be using a lerners permit to learn to drive, not commute, so its not that much of an inconvenience to use national roads for the time it takes to get your license.

On the other hand tho I do agree that its dodgy to ban learners from motorways but the minute they get their license they can drive on them having never had experience of one before. Is the solution maybe to only allow learners to use motorways while in driving school cars under the supervision of an instructor maybe?

Mimikyu

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Chinasea

A high percentage of drivers on Irish roads have no tax, no insurance, no licences - very little enforcement.

Rules are only for those/fools that abide by them in Ireland. Mostly, you can do what you like and you'll never get caught.

djimi

Chinasea wrote: »

A high percentage of drivers on Irish roads have no tax, no insurance, no licences - very little enforcement.

Rules are only for those/fools that abide by them in Ireland. Mostly, you can do what you like and you'll never get caught.

Lets not exagerate; there are a lot of law breakers but I wouldnt say its a high percentage...

MagicMarker

Chinasea wrote: »

A high percentage of drivers on Irish roads have no tax, no insurance, no licences - very little enforcement.

Links please?

Mimikyu

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djimi

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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They are learner drivers; by definition they are learning and can be at any stage from complete beginner who has never sat behind the wheel of a car before to experienced learner who is ready to pass the test. You cant just assume that every learner is at the higher skill level, and you certainly cant make laws for learner drivers at that assumption.

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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You cannot rely on common sense alone when it comes to trying to prevent 75mph accidents. How many 17 year old learners will think they are well able to drive at that speed on a motorway only to find out when its too late that they cant?

Chinasea

MagicMarker wrote: »

Links please?

how could we have links? No enforcement - no catchy catchy

Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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Chinasea

The dog on the street knows there are heaps of unlicensed, no tax no insurance drivers on the roads. I live in a country where there is little or no law enforcement in any shape or form. Thankfully the majority confirm to most laws but we have growing amounts of those that abide by no rules. I think we all know of someone who has been hit by one of these uninsured drivers - I know I certainly do.

Berty

KingIsabella wrote: »

That road is definitly a 120km/h limit, but as memory serves i think all the signs are green.

Just an update on this.

Its the N25 from the Dunkettle Interchange out towards Middleton. It is a D/C but it IS 120KPH. It is still classed as a National route but has a special dispensation.

Learners CAN use this road but are limited to 100kph although there are no signs to say this. This bit of information was given to me(us) by a boardsie who is also GTC based in Middleton.

djimi

Chinasea wrote: »

The dog on the street knows there are heaps of unlicensed, no tax no insurance drivers on the roads. I live in a country where there is little or no law enforcement in any shape or form. Thankfully the majority confirm to most laws but we have growing amounts of those that abide by no rules. I think we all know of someone who has been hit by one of these uninsured drivers - I know I certainly do.

Im not doubting that these drivers exist, but you seem to be of the opinion that every second drivers is driving with no tax, insurance or license which simply isnt true.

MagicMarker

Chinasea wrote: »

how could we have links? No enforcement - no catchy catchy

So what you're saying is a high % of drivers hold no license, tax or insurance and that you have absolutely no evidence to support this statement?

I see.

Mimikyu

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djimi

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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At least a dangerous fully licenses driver has passed their test, so while they might be a moron at least they have displayed some level of compentancy, enough to get their license anyway.

Im not saying that learners should be limited to 30mph but theres a big difference in speed between a 60mph road and a 75mph+ road, and I just dont feel its safe for learners to be on motorways. I know I would prefer not to have some nervous learner who has been driving for a month on the same road where Im travelling at 75mph.

Maybe its just my opinion, but from what I can gather almost every other country has the same law, so Im obviously not alone in my thinking.

Berty

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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True there are no signs. I asked the CCC and the NRA about it and nobody seemed to have a clear answer but just that Learners under Legislation were limited the maximum speed of a national route which was 100kph.

Yet when I asked "But if you changed a national route to 120kph like you have doesnt that mean that YOU are in defiance of the legislation in that case"

They never replied.

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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Why lorries are limited to 90kph(mostly) but they overtake. If a Learner limited to 100kph on a motorway were to come up behind a truck doing 80kph then they would have to overtake.

They would just not be allowed into the 3rd driving lane on the M50.

Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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Mint Sauce

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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not being picky with your aguement, but i would have thought most people doing their lessons/test at present would live near a national road where the limit was up to 100km. If the above was the case then there would be a similar agruement for people making the transition from regional roads (50 to 80km) to national roads (up to 100km) after passing their test. Yes they wouldn't have to deal with merging and lane changing but traffic speed and volume would be a factor

personally, and thankfully, i live near a HQDC and was expected to go on it as part of my lessons and test, merging with traffic at 100km (was the scene of one of my grade 2's during my first test, hesentcy), having to overtake slower moving traffic, and leave DC again. Now may not prepare me totally for MW driving but i might have some tiny idea of what to expect.

idealy the first time i take to a MW i would like to have someone sitting on with me, the first time i took to the DC, 3rd or 4th lesson, i found slightly terrifying (mainly trying to match my speed and find a gap to merge into), and done so for another lesson or two. have no idea how i would find this with more traffic going 20km + quicker.

Mimikyu

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ABajaninCork

Given the standard of driving I've seen from learners on the ordinary roads, frankly it'd frighten the crap outta me to see these people (esp boy racers) let loose on the motorways without the benefit of a full licence! :eek: It's bad enough seeing them on the roads...

What I'd like to see is 3 to 6 compulsory lessons given on motorway driving after passing your test. In the same way it's proposed to show proof that the mandatory lessons with an ADI has to be shown, then these motorway lessons can be done in the same way.

Any fool can drive fast. The trick is to drive SAFELY at speed.

Mimikyu

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ABajaninCork

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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Absolutely - If you have the experience and know-how to control the car safely on the motorway. And yes - there'll always be idiots who have no regard for their safety, never mind anyone else's...

My own responses in BOLD

robdsherlock

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Given the standard of driving I've seen from learners on the ordinary roads, frankly it'd frighten the crap outta me to see these people (esp boy racers) let loose on the motorways without the benefit of a full licence! :eek: It's bad enough seeing them on the roads...

its bad enough seeing them on the roads?? who are you kidding man? there hardly gona learn how to drive properly on a road by practiceing in a car park are they??
dont forget that we all had to start on learner licences b4 and we were all young once in our lives....:rolleyes:
except those who were handed there licence for noting

L1011

oldyouth wrote: »

You are joking, right????

He's not. Sections of the N25 and N28 are 120km/h in Cork. Previously some of the N8 was but its now M8.

Meath (N2 now M2) and Louth (N1) do this too.

ABajaninCork

robdsherlock wrote: »

its bad enough seeing them on the roads?? who are you kidding man? there hardly gona learn how to drive properly on a road by practiceing in a car park are they??
dont forget that we all had to start on learner licences b4 and we were all young once in our lives....:rolleyes:
except those who were handed there licence for noting

For your information, I am a WOMAN!:D

I learnt to drive in London. In the UK, learners are NOT allowed to drive on the roads unaccompanied. This is something I've seen over here on a regular basis. This is why it scares the crap out of me seeing these people on the roads, with no real idea of what they're doing. I got my experience before my test by going out on the roads with my INSTRUCTOR. That way if anything happened, then the instructor was on hand to either take corrective action or to guide me through doing so.

Yes - we all had to learn once. That is why I have endless patience with learners. What I don't like to see is people obviously learning, out on the roads by themselves. That puts themselves as well as other road-users in danger. I would like to see learners much more strictly controlled. By that, I mean making sure that they are taught by competant, properly accredited (ADI) driving instructors, and that if they are out on the road, then accompanied by drivers with the relevant driving experience. And that the Gards SEE that this rule is enforced.

I am not sure what the rule is here but in the UK, if you accompany someone who's learning, then the driver must be over 25 and have held a licence for more than 3 years...

Mimikyu

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Cian92

oldyouth wrote: »

You are joking, right????

Nope! just after the Jack Lynch Tunnel to Midelton the dual carriageway is 120kmph. Also the bypass/ ring road near Ballincollig (not sure of actual name) has a 120knph limit. It is great!

oldyouth

Cian92 wrote: »

Nope! just after the Jack Lynch Tunnel to Midelton the dual carriageway is 120kmph. Also the bypass/ ring road near Ballincollig (not sure of actual name) has a 120knph limit. It is great!

Hi Cian,

I take it from your username that you might have been born in 1992. making you 18. You've heard all the stories about 'I was young once' etc., but please my friend, you haven't experienced all that Ireland's roads can throw at you at your age. 120 kph is not great for an 18 year old and, please God, you'll go on to be 10 times the driver I am.

robdsherlock

ABajaninCork wrote: »

For your information, I am a WOMAN!:D

I learnt to drive in London. In the UK, learners are NOT allowed to drive on the roads unaccompanied. This is something I've seen over here on a regular basis. This is why it scares the crap out of me seeing these people on the roads, with no real idea of what they're doing. I got my experience before my test by going out on the roads with my INSTRUCTOR. That way if anything happened, then the instructor was on hand to either take corrective action or to guide me through doing so.

Yes - we all had to learn once. That is why I have endless patience with learners. What I don't like to see is people obviously learning, out on the roads by themselves. That puts themselves as well as other road-users in danger. I would like to see learners much more strictly controlled. By that, I mean making sure that they are taught by competant, properly accredited (ADI) driving instructors, and that if they are out on the road, then accompanied by drivers with the relevant driving experience. And that the Gards SEE that this rule is enforced.

I am not sure what the rule is here but in the UK, if you accompany someone who's learning, then the driver must be over 25 and have held a licence for more than 3 years...

point taken:)

my appologies for calling you a man, was just a figure of speach:D

i agree there is no enforcement of L drivers driving on there own but i guess its just irish nature sayn ahhh it'l be grand:D but ya it could do with a change....

ABajaninCork

robdsherlock wrote: »

point taken:)

my appologies for calling you a man, was just a figure of speach:D

It's cool :cool:. No offence taken!!

ABajaninCork

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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No, not really. My point remains that no learners should be allowed anywhere NEAR a motorway until they have passed their test IMO. The test shows the basic ability to drive safely, with consideration to other road users, and to take action appropriate to the road conditions. Motorway skills are something completely different, and should only be undertaken when you have the ABILITY and the confidence to do so

bladebrew

some of the roads around cork should not be 120km/h, the road sufaces are in bits and if you go off the road you will go down an embankment into a security fence,

the day before my test i wasnt allowed on a motorway,
i did my entire test in a 50km/h zone,
after that i could drive on the motorway:)

i dont think they can change that until we get more motorways in the country,
i have never seen a learner on the motorway do anything dangerous,

jaffa20

Separate driving test if you want to use a motorway imo. Not that the rsa would ever thing of anything like this though.