Rookie Advice

JonnyF

Hi Guys,

I'm going shooting with my girlfriend's dad and a couple of his friends at the start of the season in September. He's sorting me out with a gun and gear and that but wondering are there any basic pitfalls words of advice to avoid looking like a complete bell end out there with them?

E. Fudd

First bit of advice would to be not in posession of a firearm you don't appear to have a license for!

JonnyF

This might seem like a stupid question so feel free to tell me so but if I am using his gun under his supervision is that ok? I know that he is very strict about making sure he is compliant with any laws, licenses, gun locker etc. so doubt that he would do something illegal when letting me shoot with them.

jwshooter

you dont have a deer/game licence !

It wasn't me!

JonnyF wrote: »

This might seem like a stupid question so feel free to tell me so but if I am using his gun under his supervision is that ok? I know that he is very strict about making sure he is compliant with any laws, licenses, gun locker etc. so doubt that he would do something illegal when letting me shoot with them.

If it's on an authorised range, then you're okay, but if it's hunting in the field, you can't use the firearm. Of course, nothing against you wandering along and enjoying the day out with them.

JonnyF

It wasn't me! wrote: »

If it's on an authorised range, then you're okay, but if it's hunting in the field, you can't use the firearm. Of course, nothing against you wandering along and enjoying the day out with them.

Thanks for giving me a straight answer.

I accept that all of this stuff is incredibly basic for someone that is familiar with all of this but I'm coming from knowing absolutely nothing so any helpful answers would be great

E. Fudd

I'm not great on the oul legal end if things (sparks help me out here), but I do know that you're not allowed use anyone elses firearm without a valid firearms certificate for it.

It wasn't me!

JonnyF wrote: »

Thanks for giving me a straight answer.

I accept that all of this stuff is incredibly basic for someone that is familiar with all of this but I'm coming from knowing absolutely nothing so any helpful answers would be great

No worries. If it's a day hunting, to be honest you'll have nearly the same enjoyment just from getting out with them, walking and enjoying the country and seeing the game and seeing the hunt. I love getting out with people even if I don't take the gun. I still get the same thrill from seeing others enjoying it.

kildare.17hmr

yopu would prob enjoy the day better not having a rifle your unsure of! one less worry and enjoy the stalk

It wasn't me!

E. Fudd wrote: »

I'm not great on the oul legal end if things (sparks help me out here), but I do know that you're not allowed use anyone elses firearm without a valid firearms certificate for it.

Unless you're on an authorised range and it's an unrestricted firearm.

marlin vs

I hope if he's bringing you and he know's you'r inexperienced that he will bring you out before hand on a one to one basis to teach you something about safety,ask him to do this,I hope you enjoy you'r self.

jwshooter

also insurance is a issue .

Vegeta

As the lads have pointed out, don't bring the gun. You're not licensed for it and it is an extra pressure on the day having to handle it. Chances are you'll be unfamiliar with the firearm too if it is not yours, loading and unloading it, making it safe. Even the basics like where to point the muzzle when there are multiple people with you could be tricky if you're not used to it.

A bag man is always appreciated, someone who carries the sandwiches and any extra kit. You'll still get the best part out of it anyway, the craic, the countryside, the uncertainty of hunting, you can still appreciate a good shot by the lads. I think if you bring the gun, the gun itself is what will dominate your mind for the day.

You never mentioned if it was duck, deer or what you'd be hunting.

Just try and mimic the guys you're with. if they're being quiet, then you be quiet. If they are trying to walk quietly then don't drag your feet. If they are keeping low, then you keep low. Don't wander ahead of or crowd the guns. Try not to venture out of sight unnecessarily, let people know where you are.

Comfortable and warm clothing.

It's not that bad, it's like a hike or nature walk but you just have to keep in mind that people will be discharging firearms and you need to act in a way that ensures everyone's safety

Tackleberrywho

If you bring the Bino's you will not feel like a plumb as you can spot game for the lads, and in the process pick up a lot of skills.

If you are going, good comfy boots/wellies depending wet or dry area/weather.
A backpack with a few munchies is always appreciated.
The gun would only get in your way when you are trying to keep up with them.

I used to carry all the equipment for a lad years ago when I started stalki8ng first. The easiest part of teh dayu is taking a shot.
You can practice shooting on an authorised range.

The hardest skills to learn are navagiating barbed wire, bull rushes, bog moulld and bog men

homerhop

Am just curious on how many lads posting here have started out shooting getting a shot out of their fathers/brothers/friends gun?

Rovi

homerhop wrote: »

Am just curious on how many lads posting here have started out shooting getting a shot out of their fathers/brothers/friends gun?

I'd say a high percentage did.

However, as the law currently stands, outside of an authorised range it is illegal for anyone without a licence for a particular firearm to even handle that firearm, so that particular way of introducing a new shooter to the sport is officially closed.

Also, as the Shooting Forum Charter explicitly states that "Advocating, condoning or soliciting information about breaking the law is prohibited", we can't have people coming on here and advising or suggesting otherwise.

What people choose to do in the real world is their own business and at their own risk, but this VERY PUBLIC forum is most certainly not the place to discuss it.

Feidhlim Dignan

the law says you cant, but realisticly you would probly get away with it.
say nothing and keep saying, have a good day be safe and enjoy yourself.

what are they planning on going after birds or deer?

FISMA

Johnny,
What will you be shooting: shotgun or rifle, birds or deer?

A few pointers.

Keep your finger off of the trigger until the last possible second.

Keep the action open when you are walking along, crossing ditches, or jumping fences.

Know your target.

Know what is beyond the target - especially if you are shooting a rifle.

Only point the gun at something you intend to kill.

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. In my time in the field I have seen several slam fires and lads that just couldn't keep their finger off of the trigger. Once a lad "forgot" that the gun he [legally] borrowed had double triggers. In all instances, they at least had the gun pointed into the ground.

There are lot's more ideas, try a youtube search. I bet there's lots of good tips out there.

Basically, keep it safe. That will impressive the auld fella more than anything.

Sparks

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

the law says you cant, but realisticly you would probly get away with it.

Realistically, it's illegal.
And it's quite black and white - you pull that trigger, and you're now in violation of the Firearms Act, in possession and using an unlicenced firearm, and you haven't any defence under the Act.

Frankly, the three little words ("Don't do it") come to mind rather loudly.

bunny shooter

Can someone give me a link for this as it has come up in one of my gun clubs too and I need to prove this to our new safety officer before it's too late.

Sparks

Firearms Act, Section Two bunny.
Sections 2(1), 2(2) and 2(2A) define the offence and set out the punishments; Sections 2(3) and 2(4) define the conditions under which carrying a firearm without a licence is exempted from being an offence, but only Section 2(3)(f) comes close to being relevant to hunting:

( f ) the carriage for sporting purposes only of a firearm or ammunition under instructions from and for the use of the holder of a firearm certificate for such firearm or ammunition;

Therefore, if you pull the trigger while hunting without a licence, you're breaking the law. If you just carry it, you might not be, so long as the owner either wrote down instructions for you to carry it or will tell the gardai that he instructed you to carry it; but that won't save you if you pull the trigger as it's only carriage that's covered, not possession or use. (The exemption, from what I can tell, was originally for the chaps loading shotguns at driven shoots and the like).

tac foley

I agree 100% with Sparks - in the current law, just holding a loaded firearm without any form of licence could qualify you for a free vacation in Mountjoy's All-grey Holiday Home.

Here is the relevant paragraph from the 1925 FA -

(2) Save in any of the cases hereinafter excepted from this section, every person who after the commencement of this Act has in his possession, uses, or carries any firearm without holding a firearm certificate therefor or otherwise than as authorised by such certificate, or purchases, uses, has in his possession, or carries any ammunition without holding a firearm certificate therefor or in quantities in excess of those authorised by such certificate, or fails to comply with any condition subject to which a firearm certificate was granted to him, shall be guilty of an offence under this Act and shall be punishable accordingly.

Seems perfectly clear to me, but then I'm not really an ab initio English speaker, and perhaps I'm missing something out that is glaringly obvious to others. Perhaps if your name begins with the letter Q, you are left-handed and walk with a lisp, you might be exempt the law on every other alternate tuesday.

But somehow I don't think so.

Over here in not-so-merrie Olde England it will get you five years uninterrupted vacation with 'holiday' clothing supplied.

tac

Tackleberrywho

If you want to fire a shotgun without owning, go to an authorised place where it can be done legally.

Lakelands springs to mind

tac foley

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If you want to fire a shotgun without owning, go to an authorised place where it can be done legally.
Lakelands springs to mind

Good advice.

Take it.

tac

FISMA

Lads, fair enough, the law is the law and must be respected.

How long has this law been in effect? I suspect that the licensing requirement has been around for a long time.

How many here took their first shot from a firearm under which they were licensed?

How many did not? Instead, had a shot out of: Dad's gun, Uncles, Grandfathter, ...

Again, the law is the law and must be respected.

Sparks

FISMA wrote: »

How long has this law been in effect? I suspect that the licensing requirement has been around for a long time.

Not so long - only since 2006/7 officially. Came in with Michael McDowell's first raft of changes to the Firearms Act.

How many here took their first shot from a firearm under which they were licensed?

Well, not me, but I was covered under 2(4)(d) which says that you don't need a firearms licence for:

(d) the possession, use or carriage of a firearm or ammunition during a competition or target practice at a club, shooting range or any other place that stands authorised under this section or section 4A of this Act,

So you can still introduce someone without needing a licence, you just have to do it on a range.

BELOWaverageIQ

As has already been made quite clear it is illegal to be in even temporary posession of a firearm that you do not have a liscence for.
I'm guessing here that you have no previous experience of firearms and therefore heighly irresponsable of your father in law to suggest that you should have an opertunity to shoot at game.
I for one would not want to be out hunting with someone who has had little or no experience of firearms and I'm pretty sure others in your hunting party would feel the same.
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but you really would have a better first outing with a pair of binos and going along for the experience to be honest

tommyboy26

i learned to shoot in the midlands using a club .22 which i have noticed you cant rent anymore? this is imho the best way to get into shooting.

also what does the law say about going stalking with a friend using your own rifle?


tommy

Sparks

tommyboy26 wrote: »

also what does the law say about going stalking with a friend using your own rifle?

It says it's grand - so long as he never fires that rifle. See the above 27 posts...

knockon

Therefore am I correct in saying that places like Sheen Falls and Ashford Castle that advertise clay shooting for guests are breaking the law as Chuck from New York or Billy from Waterford don't have a FAC?

Sparks

No, you're not correct knockon - clay pigeon shooting setups like that are exempted from the above because they're not hunting, but target shooting, so they're covered under section 2(4)(d), the same way that the college rifle clubs would be, for example.

tommyboy26

and i know its slightly off topic but why can you not rent a club rifle in the midlands anyone?


tommy

Cass

Not trying to be a smart a**e or anything, but i'd sy the lads at the Midlands would be best able to answer that.

Again not being a smart a**e.

Tackleberrywho

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i learned to shoot in the midlands using a club .22 which i have noticed you cant rent anymore? this is imho the best way to get into shooting.

also what does the law say about going stalking with a friend using your own rifle?


tommy

You have to be more specific, anyone with a stalking rifle and permission, in season can go stalking with a mate,if your mates permission owner has no issue with you on his land.

I'm not sure what you are asking though?
Any stalker can bring a Gillie for grunt work, in fact i would recommend it!