Quickest Blackbelt

RoyNeary

Just out of curiosity. In which style / discipline would you be most likely to get a Black belt the quickest?

OLDMAN1

i wouldn't blame any style for these quick black belts, its down to the instructor imo, the quickest i have ever heard of was 16 months and he trained twice a week and never once spared, thats not the stye, thats the instructor and before anybody asks im not saying the style and i dont know how much he charged him..

arybvtcw0eolkf

If your very gifted its possible you'll get it in Judo inside 3 years, but it doesn't mean you know Judo. It just mean's you can fight and win belts.

But this really is the exception rather than the rule, and you'd have to be an exceptionally gifted fighter.

Its not the belt, its the journey that matter's.

cstlgr

i know an irish guy that started tae kwon do in seoul south korea last july, at total beginner level and was awarded his black belt two months ago :eek: , this guy smokes 20 a day gets pissed every weekend and would tell you himself that he is very unfit.. and i doubt very much would be much use in a fight, makes you wonder how these things get awarded you would think tkd in south korea would be serious

rom

It all depends on how often you train. If you get 2 A grades in a row in Tae Kwon Do you can double grade. People have done the first 2 grades and double graded all the way to black belt but its very very rare and your talking about training every day really.

You can get a Tae Know Do black belt in 2 years that way. 99% of people do it in 4-5 years mainly due to most Black Belt grading only happen once a year.

Tony Robbins did it in 6 months but he is just super.

yomchi

cstlgr wrote: »

i know an irish guy that started tae kwon do in seoul south korea last july, at total beginner level and was awarded his black belt two months ago :eek: , this guy smokes 20 a day gets pissed every weekend and would tell you himself that he is very unfit.. and i doubt very much would be much use in a fight, makes you wonder how these things get awarded you would think tkd in south korea would be serious

Can I hazard a guess and say he got it as part of a college course?

In Korea, WTF Taekwon-Do is taught in the colleges where black belts come as part of the curriculum, a bit like having a calculator for maths class.

yomchi

rom wrote: »

It all depends on how often you train. If you get 2 A grades in a row in Tae Kwon Do you can double grade. People have done the first 2 grades and double graded all the way to black belt but its very very rare and your talking about training every day really.

You can get a Tae Know Do black belt in 2 years that way. 99% of people do it in 4-5 years mainly due to most Black Belt grading only happen once a year.

Yep, it took me six :eek:

king_of_inismac

You should consider a blackbelt like getting your driving license. Sure, you've got the basics, but it doesn't mean you're anyway proficient.

My policy, you're only as good (or as bad) as your last training session.

cstlgr

yomchi wrote: »

Can I hazard a guess and say he got it as part of a college course?

In Korea, WTF Taekwon-Do is taught in the colleges where black belts come as part of the curriculum, a bit like having a calculator for maths class.

not sure about college, but he does teach english tefl over there

FruitLover

You can get a black belt in the time it takes to get the bus into town and go to the local martial arts store.

But what would be the point?

BobbyOLeary

Viviana Elegant Tap-dancer wrote: »

it doesn't mean you know Judo. It just mean's you can fight and win belts.

I'm not a judoka, just a BJJ player but this is confusing me a bit. What do you mean by knowing judo exactly? Maybe it's how I view jitz but if someone has a black belt and has gotten it through live competition I view them as knowing the art. Obviously they don't know everything but they're pretty good.

Is winning competitions not Judo?

Just as an afterthought, this isn't meant as a smartassed attack, I'm honestly just curious about this. I see this a lot more in shotokan and the like where the master with the big belly "knows" the art so doesn't have to prove himself. BJJ tends not to have guys who wear a high rank who can't move properly. I would have assumed Judo would be the same?

flynny51

Viviana Elegant Tap-dancer wrote: »

Its not the belt, its the journey that matter's.

I think that sums it up nicely.

Back when I used to TKD there was kids with black belts and adults who could barely spar. I think it cheapens the whole idea of the belt system.

RoyNeary

Thanks guys for all the replies. A friend of mine recently got a black belt after only 2 years of training and i just thought that seemed a bit quick.

Doug Cartel

The belts in BJJ and judo are on a different scale - in fact you can't easily compare belts between different at all. It takes a lot longer to get a black belt in BJJ than it does in judo and a BJJ black belt will know a lot more of the BJJ syllabus than a first dan judo guy will know of the judo syllabus. After you get your black belt in BJJ that's it as far as grading goes, and all your additional dans come from time-in-grade. In judo you still have to do tests to grade, and you're still learning a lot.

Even comparing grades between countries is difficult. I've been told that in Japan you can get a (judo) black belt in about a year of dedicated study. They consider first dan more as a sign of commitment than of skill.

Doug Cartel

flynny51 wrote: »

Most of you probably know where the colour system came from. In olden times students started off with their white belt. As time went on and the more they trained and sweated.. their belt got dirty and turned yellow... Over years of training, sweat and blood it would turn green, brown until it was worn and black.

Ha, ha. No. This is total codswallop.

Clive

flynny51 wrote: »

Most of you probably know where the colour system came from. In olden times students started off with their white belt. As time went on and the more they trained and sweated.. their belt got dirty and turned yellow... Over years of training, sweat and blood it would turn green, brown until it was worn and black.

That's the story, but the truth is that Kano instituted it in judo. To be honest anyone whose belt is changing colour should either wash it or buy a new one.

flynny51

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Ha, ha. No. This is total codswallop.

I just had a look online and apparently it's a misconception. Here's what wikipedia has to say.

The systematic use of belt color to denote rank was first used by Kano Jigoro, the founder of judo, who first devised the colored belt system using obi, and awarded the first black belts to denote a Dan rank in the 1880s. Initially the wide obi was used; as practitioners trained in kimono, only white and black obi were used. It was not until the early 1900s, after the introduction of the judogi, that an expanded colored belt system of awarding rank was created.[2] Other martial arts later adopted the custom or variation on it (e.g. using colored sashes) to denote rank including in arts that traditionally did not have a formalized rank structure. This kind of ranking is less common in arts that do not claim a far eastern origin, though it is used in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.

Misconceptions
One common idea concerning the tradition of belts claims that the belt ranking system is an ancient aspect of traditional martial arts and that early martial artists began their training with a white belt, which eventually became stained black from years of sweat, dirt, and blood.[citation needed] In fact, Japanese Koryu instructors tended to provide certificates.[citation needed]
In some arts and schools there is the (often only half-serious, though equally often rigorous) opinion that the belt should not be washed; the idea that by doing that one would "wash away the knowledge" or "wash one's Qi away" might be related to this myth. Apart from risk of the dye running, there is the problem that as most modern belts are made with a cotton or nylon outer shell, but polyester batting and stitching to fill out the belt, the different shrinkage of cotton and polyester in hot water could cause the belt to come apart.

The misconception part is not referenced though. I've read it in a number of places over the years, I prefer the 'blood and sweat' version :P

FruitLover

Here we go again...

flynny51 wrote: »

Most of you probably know where the colour system came from. In olden times students started off with their white belt. As time went on and the more they trained and sweated.. their belt got dirty and turned yellow... Over years of training, sweat and blood it would turn green, brown until it was worn and black

Sorry mate, but this a load of nonsense drummed up to invent a romantic story for gullible westerners to latch onto. If you've ever spent much time in Japan, you'll have noticed that the Japanese are fastidiously clean. The idea of anyone wearing a stinking old belt until it literally turned black from filth would turn anyone's stomach over here, no matter what century you visited.

RoyNeary wrote: »

Thanks guys for all the replies. A friend of mine recently got a black belt after only 2 years of training and i just thought that seemed a bit quick.

Unless you're a martial arts instructor, you're probably not in much of a position to judge. In Japan (for example), it's not unusual for people (particularly uni students, who train their 金玉 off) to get their first dan-grade in karate, judo or kendo within a single year of beginning, never mind two. It all comes down to how hard (and often) you train, and how well you understand the training (which is influenced by the quality of teaching).

In Ireland, I trained 2-3 times a week, one hour per session. In Japan, it's pretty normal to train an hour in the morning before work, then two hours in the evening, every single weekday (and an hour or two on Saturdays). I effectively train an entire week's amount in a single day here. That's five Irish week's worth (minimum) per week here. It took me the best part of five years to earn my black belt in Ireland, so surely it would make sense that had I trained as I do back then, I would have reached the same level in roughly a fifth of the time?

flynny51

Ya it was pointed out twice already I guess I believed it because I never heard otherwise and it makes a hell of a lot more sense (minus the hygiene) than handing out black belts to 13 year olds.

As Makikomi said, it's all about the journey.

Niall Keane

"it's all about the journey", regarding belts and gradings one could be cynical and suggest... It's all about the money, the journey exists with or without belts, all they offer is a perceived heirarchy, do western boxers wear their achievments their fight record on their shorts? The only belts to respect are championship belts, the rest are often guilty of substituting for courage and skill. And all such belt systems are left open to abuse all it takes is one greedy instructor to start handing them out for a fee. I really see no martial purpose.

Ug Lee

In Hai Gumbo "if" you were already a black belt, you could do five weekend courses consisting of two days each and you would be awarded your blackbelt.

However a blackbelt in Asia and a blackbelt in the west is something different. The next grade for one of my students will be blackbelt. It will have taken him 7.5 years but might take him longer. I remember when I got my blackbelt, I felt like shlt. I knew I didn't deserve it. I will only feel like I deserve my blackbelt when my first student gets theirs.

rom

yomchi wrote: »

Yep, it took me six :eek:

99% not really true but if you don't miss or fail a grading it takes that long.

I didn't miss any and it took 4 years.

Sid_Justice

Doug Cartel wrote: »

The belts in BJJ and judo are on a different scale - in fact you can't easily compare belts between different at all. It takes a lot longer to get a black belt in BJJ than it does in judo and a BJJ black belt will know a lot more of the BJJ syllabus than a first dan judo guy will know of the judo syllabus. After you get your black belt in BJJ that's it as far as grading goes, and all your additional dans come from time-in-grade. In judo you still have to do tests to grade, and you're still learning a lot.

Even comparing grades between countries is difficult. I've been told that in Japan you can get a (judo) black belt in about a year of dedicated study. They consider first dan more as a sign of commitment than of skill.

Mostly agree with this. However, I don't think a BJJ blackbelt should really know that more of the bjj syllabus than a judo black belt but the bjj blackbelt would have a much higher standard of skill within that syllabus. Bjj blackbelt is a sign of expertness while a judo black belt is a sign of competency.

For many Japanese martial arts, Aikido and Judo for example, you can take a dedictated intensive course for a year training daily to get a black belt.

yomchi

rom wrote: »

99% not really true but if you don't miss or fail a grading it takes that long.

I didn't miss any and it took 4 years.

I didn't miss any nor fail any, we graded twice a year with a prelim before black. Im doing TKD 23 years this year and I recently graded to 4th degree. There are guys with less time than me who are 6th degrees. Sin an saol.

Tim_Murphy

I once gave a friend of mine a black belt (certificate and all) for her birthday, she was well impressed. :pac: 0 classes a week for 0 weeks, got to be a record.

Now, everybody promise not to mention that to my old TKD instructor (Jon I'm looking at you!) :eek:

joeyhehir

Signed up my eldest son to a club while living in sweden and with payment they would award a black belt after 2 years. He was 5 years old then. We left the club. It was all about money!

yomchi

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I once gave a friend of mine a black belt (certificate and all) for her birthday, she was well impressed. :pac: 0 classes a week for 0 weeks, got to be a record.

Now, everybody promise not to mention that to my old TKD instructor (Jon I'm looking at you!) :eek:

You were well known for that Murphy

rom

yomchi wrote: »

I didn't miss any nor fail any, we graded twice a year with a prelim before black. Im doing TKD 23 years this year and I recently graded to 4th degree. There are guys with less time than me who are 6th degrees. Sin an saol.

I did TKD before up to Blue Belt and then about 10 years later stared from the start again so really it was 7 years. Graded 3 times a year until blue belt. Trained 4 times a week from Blue to Black. My instructor failed 3 out of 4 adults going for red belt at the last color belt grading. The guy that passed is training 4-5 nights a week, the others are not.

I have never been concerned about belts only that having my belt getting smaller as a result.

pearsquasher

In the bujnkan gradings are between the instructor and the student and are meaningless outside this context. It's neither here nor there who gets graded first or for what reasons or how long it takes.

Its extremely rare for anyone training like this to care very much about anyone elses grade except their own. It really is an excellent system and pretty much levels everyone off into the mindset of "if I train hard, I will get better".

cletus

pearsquasher wrote: »

In the bujnkan gradings are between the instructor and the student and are meaningless outside this context. It's neither here nor there who gets graded first or for what reasons or how long it takes.

Its extremely rare for anyone training like this to care very much about anyone elses grade except their own. It really is an excellent system and pretty much levels everyone off into the mindset of "if I train hard, I will get better".

Do Bujinkan instructors in general market themselves using their grade, i.e. "Train with Master Pat, x dan bujinkan", just curious

Darren Mahony

Hi

I can only speak for our organisation, The European Kenpo Karate Association, as I don't know the rules of the other Kenpo organisations in the country but is a rule in our charter that you must spend a minimun time of 1 (one) year on each Brown Belt before you can test for the next which means a minimum of 3 years from 3rd Brown to 1st Degree Black.
As it would take most people at least 3 to 4 years to get to 3rd Brown you are looking at 6 to 7 years before getting a Black Belt.
As the material really kicks up the notches from Brown Belt on, this time is to allow the material to be completly and totally assimilated and also to give the person a longer period to hone their skills so that by the time they are allowed to test for 1st Black they are highly skilled and have an excellent understanding of the system.
Having said that, in Kenpo, a 1st Degree Black Belt is considered a Junior Instructor and you are not a fully fleged Instructor until you get to 3rd Degree Black which following our rules will take a minimum of another 5 years.
These times are all minimums and it may take an individual longer.

Regards
Darren Mahony