Soon to need a prescription for Nurofen/Solphadine/etc?

messymess

I keep hearing about people being "addicted" to Solpadine ... what exactly are you addicted to? I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount of it to be addicted to the codeine. Is it not similar story for the compulsive tea drinker trying to wean themselfs off caffeine?

Either way I'm kinda sick about hear of people martyring themselfs on this issue. Opiates, benzos, alcohol ... they're addictions ... not a couple of soluble discs you take when you've a mild ache.

Please correct me?

BogMonkey

I was refused for the first time today. Despite having not taken codeine in 5 days the pharmacist wouldn't sell me 12 nurofen+.

bleg

messymess you're wrong. Physical dependence and withdrawal symptoms can occur with codeine use.

Kurtosis

messymess wrote: »

I keep hearing about people being "addicted" to Solpadine ... what exactly are you addicted to? I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount of it to be addicted to the codeine. Is it not similar story for the compulsive tea drinker trying to wean themselfs off caffeine?

Either way I'm kinda sick about hear of people martyring themselfs on this issue. Opiates, benzos, alcohol ... they're addictions ... not a couple of soluble discs you take when you've a mild ache.

Please correct me?

Codeine is an opiate and is metabolised to morphine in the body, so products containing codeine can prove to be addictive. On the topic of caffeine, Solpadeine in addition to codeine and paracetamol also contains a substantial dose of caffeine, which could perhaps add to the dependency issue.

Tucking Fypo

Messymess, the solpadeine box now carries the following sticker:

Pharmasave: This product contains Codeine. Prolonged use can cause addiction.

So yes, people are/can get addicted to it, and it can cause a lot of distress once a person gets rebound pain.

messymess

bleg wrote: »

messymess you're wrong. Physical dependence and withdrawal symptoms can occur with codeine use.

I don't refute that at all ... what I'm questioning is the quantities that people would have to take for it to become an issue. According to wiki there's 12.8mgs of codeine in solpadine max. You'd have to taking about two packets a day for sometime for it become an issue, no? If you can happily hold that in your stomach without an issue fair play!

I read some posts where people are talking about "withdrawls" because they're on two a day !!!

messymess

Tucking Fypo wrote: »

Messymess, the solpadeine box now carries the following sticker:

Pharmasave: This product contains Codeine. Prolonged use can cause addiction.

So yes, people are/can get addicted to it, and it can cause a lot of distress once a person gets rebound pain.

Do you believe everything you read on stickers?

Tucking Fypo

messymess wrote: »

Do you believe everything you read on stickers?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

messymess

Tucking Fypo wrote: »

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Personally I thought it was quite witty, myself.

gbee

messymess wrote: »

I read some posts where people are talking about "withdrawls" because they're on two a day !!!

Yes, two a day will do it. Typically you'll have been on it for years. Some take a 12 pack or more a day ~ but maybe 90% of Irish women are hooked on two a day.

policeman

from opiates.com

What Are Opiate Receptors?

Opiate receptors are a type of protein found in the brain, spinal cord and gastrointestinal tract. Opiates activate receptors once they reach the brain. Opiates facilitate pain relief and stimulate the pleasure centers in the brain that signal reward.

In the reward system, the drugs activate these areas of the brain: ventral tegmental area (VTA), cerebral cortex and nucleus accumbens. Research shows that stimulation of the opiate receptors by heroin, morphine and other opiates results in feelings of reward.It also activates pleasure circuits by causing a larger amount of dopamine to be released in the nucleus accumbens.

Types of Opiate Receptors

The four major subgroups of opiate receptors are delta, kappa, mu and Nociceptin, and each is involved in controlling different functions of the brain. As an example, opiates and endorphins block pain signals by binding to the mu receptor site. The delta receptor in the brain is involved in pain relief, antidepressant effects and physical dependence.Kappa receptors in the brain and spinal cord are linked with sedation, spinal analgesia and pupil constriction.

mathepac

messymess wrote: »

...Please correct me?

It is my pleasure.

messymess wrote: »

... what exactly are you addicted to? ...

The codeine in codeine-containing OTC medications which is what the entire thread is about.

messymess wrote: »

... I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount of it to be addicted to the codeine. ...

Your imaginings are incorrect. A person addicted to codeine will need a sufficient amount to regain the high / buzz they feel from the codeine or a sufficient amount to avoid withdrawal symptoms or a sufficient amount to gain the reassurance they will not experience withdrawals. In order to get a sufficient dose of codeine from the products being discussed, an addict must also ingest harmful quantities of the other constituents of the products concerned.

messymess wrote: »

... Is it not similar story for the compulsive tea drinker trying to wean themselfs off caffeine? ...

There are certain similarities, however the health risks associated with addiction to the products being discussed here are far greater than those associated with tea.

messymess wrote: »

... Either way I'm kinda sick about hear of people martyring themselfs on this issue. Opiates, benzos, alcohol ... they're addictions ... not a couple of soluble discs you take when you've a mild ache. ...

If you're genuinely sick of hearing about this stuff, the threads are easily avoided and as has been pointed out in the thread several times already codeine is in the same group of drugs as opium/heroin/morphine.

ebixa82

Calibos wrote: »

The very same people accepted my 7 people explanation before the new rules but now won't, despite me pushing in a trolley with 400 euros worth of food stacked high in it every week. .
.

Why would you have A trolley full of food in your local pharmacy?

ebixa82

markiemark2005 wrote: »

Went up to Newry and got myself 36 solphaine for 6 quid.


Mark 1 Nanny State 0.

I walked to my local pharmacy in dublin and got myself a 24 pack of solpadeine for 5 euro. (and spent no money on petrol in doing so!)

Ebixa 1 Mark 0

Yag reuoY

You shouldn't take these types of drugs more than a few times a year.

The nanny state argument is valid, but people are abusing these drugs to state where they need nannying.

Pathetic but true.

Counting down the days till I leave. :pac:

ebixa82

messymess wrote: »

I keep hearing about people being "addicted" to Solpadine ... what exactly are you addicted to? I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount of it to be addicted to the codeine. Is it not similar story for the compulsive tea drinker trying to wean themselfs off caffeine?

Either way I'm kinda sick about hear of people martyring themselfs on this issue. Opiates, benzos, alcohol ... they're addictions ... not a couple of soluble discs you take when you've a mild ache.

Please correct me?

I think this post is a perfect example of why the problem of codeine dependence exists in this country.

"I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount"....you imagine completely wrong. Call it ignorance, stupidity, lack of education on the subject but people are indeed becoming addicted to these "soluble discs" on an almost daily basis.

stateofflux

where can one find the survey / stats carried out by the irish govt/other bodies justifying the restriction? and how do they compare to other eu codeine selling states?
or was part of the survey based on single person sales (with large amounts purchased, which caused alarm bells)

also can anyone that knows about the pharmaceutical industry tell me if this has another monetry motive entirely and if the 'addiction' arguement is a ruse?

im not trying to be smart, i just dont know.....and i cant find the info on google....

messymess

ebixa82, mathpac, what are your qualifications on this subject out of curiousity?

Tucking Fypo

stateofflux wrote: »

where can one find the survey / stats carried out by the irish govt/other bodies justifying the restriction? and how do they compare to other eu codeine selling states?
or was part of the survey based on single person sales (with large amounts purchased, which caused alarm bells)

also can anyone that knows about the pharmaceutical industry tell me if this has another monetry motive entirely and if the 'addiction' arguement is a ruse?

im not trying to be smart, i just dont know.....and i cant find the info on google....

I don't think it is widely available, although I am positive we will have something soon.

I have spoken to numerous people over the last couple of years about this. Including Darragh O'Loughlin of the IPU as far back as 2007. Even at that time they were trying to do something about what can only be described as an epidemic of Irish people addicted to this.

The person I spoke about was taking 24 a day, this began as simply taking it for a bad tooth ache. They went over the threshold of the 3 days in between waiting for the dentist and then it might be 2 a day to get rid of a headache, which in turn went up and up.

The big problem for Solpadeine especially is it gives you pain when you haven't taken it. In my opinion that type of sh!t is lethal to sell to anybody in any amount.

drkpower

ebixa82 wrote: »

I think this post is a perfect example of why the problem of codeine dependence exists in this country.

"I'd imagine you'd need to be taking a completely unrealistic amount"....you imagine completely wrong. Call it ignorance, stupidity, lack of education on the subject but people are indeed becoming addicted to these "soluble discs" on an almost daily basis.

+1
Unfortunately that kind of attitude resulted in mammy & granny taking so much valium that they ended up as addicted as any junkie. Thankfully, (most) people now realise the great harm addiction to benzodiazepines can do.

It is lack of education that results in people like Messymess not knowing the potential for codeine addiction. It is ignorance and stupidity that allows them to deny the extent of its addictive potential on an internet message board, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Wertz

I find the similarities between this thread and similar ones discussing the crackdown on headshops and their products a few months back quite amusing.

A lot like the time during the whole Liveline headshop screaming match about legal highs, when on one of the days they carried a piece at the end about the price rise (€2?) for codeine analgesics and a load of aul wans started calling in that it was a disgrace etc; the same people who would have been so morally outraged by people wanting to buy other drugs.

Yes I know painkillers serve a legitimate purpose, and comparing them to recreational drugs isn't strictly fair, but the same painkillers are wide open to abuse and are far more addictive than anything the headshops ever sold.

The move to tighten regs on their supply and the reactions of many people on here and in the media show that there are an awful lot of people with dependency on these products out there...that someone would cite their (regular) use as a hangover cure to justify a steady supply is laughable...I wonder how many on our roads are driving around in a slightly opiated haze, or how much liver damage is caused to regaular users by the accompanying paracetamol.
I'd also wonder what proprtion of repeat or persistent headaches are caused by mild withdrawal in people that take a pill or two every time they feel a headache coming on...

Stephen P

Article in todays Irish Times Health Supplement about the rules.

policeman

Ok, I have to admit I've been playing a naughty devil's advocate on this one:D, and have been watching and contributing to this thread.

A couple of things have become glaringly apparent.

Had it not been for this government intervention pharmacists would have continued to sell these products as normal, and made their profits. Would they have eventually self regulated sale of codeine OTC products? Don't think so.

These products have been freely sold for decades and as a direct result we now have a load of people who have developed a bit of a liking for this devilish substance we call codeine.

What's happening now? It seems the pharmacists, some of which have been contributing to this thread, are demonising these very people who they have been quite happy to sell this stuff to in the past.

Conclusion. It's a bit like the way western culture treats other addicts..ie. with thoughtless contempt. People on opposing sides become entrenched in their views, and intelligent, progressive understanding on a human level is about as likely as the Pope becoming a Hare Krishna. Then again that was probably a bit too much to expect to be honest, wasn't it?

Kurtosis

RATM wrote: »

These new regulations are a joke. Here's a letter I wrote to my TD about them explaining the situation I found myself in today. I have since ordered pain killers over the web- I won't be caught on the hop by these stupid laws again.

With the no off license sales after 10pm rule the government forced my hand and I now have way more booze in the house than I ever did before. And so it will go the same way with painkillers.

Dear XXX TD,

It is with great anger and annoyance that I am writing to you. Last afternoon I crashed my motorcycle on my way home from work. The accident happened because there was split oil all over the road and my wheels just slipped from underneath of me. That, however, isn't my issue.


During the accident my right arm and shoulder took most of the hit on the hard concrete. Immediately afterwards my arm seized up and moving it was quite painful. I gathered myself and headed straight to my local pharmacy as I realised that the pain would only get worse in the hours after the accident. Here I asked for Nurofen Plus painkillers. The pharmacist refused to serve me this product on the basis that it has codine in it and said under the new regulations they could not sell codine products for my complaint. Instead I was sold normal Nurofen. After 3 hours of taking these they had absolutely no effect on the pain in my arm, which had actually gotten worse by this stage. I went back to the pharmacy and explained this and requested for the second time to be sold Nurofen Plus to get some pain relief. I explained to her that when I had back and muscular pain last year the only painkiller that worked for me was Nurofen Plus and that my arm and shoulder was giving me the exact same problems- muscular pain. Again I was refused, as if I were some sort of drug addict. I can't recall feeling so little in all my life. Here I was in a pharmacy trying to get pain relief for a very sore arm and these new regulations are preventing me from doing so. At this point it was 5.55pm and every other pharmacy in my area was closed, I now had to go home to face a night of agony with no painkillers.

As a result of these new rules I spent the whole of last night writhing in pain. I got no sleep and I have missed a days work because of something so trivial and completely unnecessary. With the price of doctors so high I cannot afford to call one out, especially at night when charges are higher. Nor am I prepared to wait 6-12+ hours to be seen in the warzone that is A&E over a problem that some basic pain killers with codine would have solved.

These new regulations are a complete farce and they were brought in by your party. If someone wants to commit suicide on painkillers these regulations do absolutely nothing to stop that happening as anyone can just go from pharmacy to pharmacy to stock up to their hearts content. Yet someone in genuine need of them gets refused? I am beginning to wonder how far this nanny state wishes to dictate to citizens what they can and can't put in their own bodies. The state has no claim over my body and I take personal responsibility for what goes in it. So why is the state acting in this way? Is it just to annoy people and leave them in a completely unnecessary pain?

I'm not being smart but I voted for you last time out, I even met you on the canvass trail and you seemed like a very genuine person. However this for me is a step too far. I take personal responsibility for my actions and deeds and believe that the state should allow me to do so- Im an adult and I don't need my hand to be held. Yet your party seems to think otherwise. Unless this law is recinded between now and the next election I will have no other option but to find a party who is more along my line of thinking. I really cannot stress enough the irony of this situation- one can buy alcohol and cigarettes without question, the head shops are still open (despite two rounds of legislation) yet I can't get anything to relieve my pain. This situation is ridiculous and absurd. In future these rules now give me no other choice but to purchase painkillers without prescription from the internet. I do not like proceeding in this manner but I refuse point blank to put up with the levels of pain I had to deal with last night.

I await your reply.

Now either the Irish Times are trawling the web for "correspondents" for their articles or else this poster must have sent his TD's letter to a few other people...

Wibbs

That they just nicked it from here is the most likely. Wouldnt be the first time a "journalist" did that on boards.

Calibos

Some people are focusing on the wrong parts of my posts or misinterpreting my points. ie. None of anyones business why I live in a house with 6 other adults and do the weekly shop/fortnightly chemist visit for them or asking why I am going into a Pharmacy with a full shopping trolley (chemist is inside a Tesco). Thats not the point. The point is these are indications that the tablets are not all for me. 7 people with the same surname at the same address on their prescription records and then a weekly shop that would last me a month or 7 people a week is another indication that I am not lying to the pharmacist to get a fix. My point/question was whether Pharmacists can use their discretion to decide who gets the spiel every time they go in and who doesn't.

The Times article pretty much covers my points and answers them. ie. There is nothing wrong in me wanting a tablet that guarantees to clear a headache/pain 100% quickly especially when I only take one dose two or three times a month. Therefore none of my households use is excessive/indicative of addiction because none of the others take it much more than 1 dose 2 or 3 times a month either. Our problem is that 3 times a month (6 tablets) by seven people is 42 tablets necessitating a pack of 24 every fortnight. The Times article points out that unfortunately the wording of the new code of practce does not allow them the discretion to decide who does or doesn't need to hear the spiel of answer the questions. So thats my question answered right there.

What this tells me though is that I should ask for the pharmacist to give me the spiel and to explain myself to because the non pharmacist staff are erring too far on the side of caution and are refusing to sell more than 12.

Its annoying that I will have to explain myself every single time, the pharmacist will have to explain the new rules every single time and that both of our valuable time will be wasted every single time.

mathepac

Wibbs wrote: »

That they just nicked it from here is the most likely. Wouldnt be the first time a "journalist" did that on boards.

OMG, low standards in high places, the "paper of record" becoming "the paper of other peoples' recordings", possible plagiarism at the Irish Times, does Madam Editor know, will She Who Must Be Obeyed act, is this the end of IT employing Catholics?? I feel a headache coming on ...

bleg

policeman wrote: »

Ok, I have to admit I've been playing a naughty devil's advocate on this one:D, and have been watching and contributing to this thread.

A couple of things have become glaringly apparent.

Had it not been for this government intervention pharmacists would have continued to sell these products as normal, and made their profits. Would they have eventually self regulated sale of codeine OTC products? Don't think so.

What government intervention? There has been no intervention from the government regarding the sale or supply of codeine containing products.

What's happening now? It seems the pharmacists, some of which have been contributing to this thread, are demonising these very people who they have been quite happy to sell this stuff to in the past.

Being a regular poster on the Health Sciences forum I know many of the pharmacists that use boards and I haven't seen them demonising anybody. Some of the comments made on this thread have been ridiculous. I don't see how anybody can comment on somebody else's medical problems based on a post on boards. However, I would be extremely surprised if any such contributions were posted by pharmacists or any health professional.

ebixa82

Calibos wrote: »

Some people are focusing on the wrong parts of my posts or misinterpreting my points. ie. None of anyones business why I live in a house with 6 other adults and do the weekly shop/fortnightly chemist visit for them or asking why I am going into a Pharmacy with a full shopping trolley (chemist is inside a Tesco). Thats not the point. The point is these are indications that the tablets are not all for me. 7 people with the same surname at the same address on their prescription records and then a weekly shop that would last me a month or 7 people a week is another indication that I am not lying to the pharmacist to get a fix. My point/question was whether Pharmacists can use their discretion to decide who gets the spiel every time they go in and who doesn't.

The Times article pretty much covers my points and answers them. ie. There is nothing wrong in me wanting a tablet that guarantees to clear a headache/pain 100% quickly especially when I only take one dose two or three times a month. Therefore none of my households use is excessive/indicative of addiction because none of the others take it much more than 1 dose 2 or 3 times a month either. Our problem is that 3 times a month (6 tablets) by seven people is 42 tablets necessitating a pack of 24 every fortnight. The Times article points out that unfortunately the wording of the new code of practce does not allow them the discretion to decide who does or doesn't need to hear the spiel of answer the questions. So thats my question answered right there.

What this tells me though is that I should ask for the pharmacist to give me the spiel and to explain myself to because the non pharmacist staff are erring too far on the side of caution and are refusing to sell more than 12.

Its annoying that I will have to explain myself every single time, the pharmacist will have to explain the new rules every single time and that both of our valuable time will be wasted every single time.

1) How do you do a weekly shop that lasts a month? Is it not called a monthly shop?

2) Non pharmacist staff simply can't sell these products. They can't err on the side of caution or just sell 12. It must be done by a Pharmacist.

3) It's apparent you have found yourself in a tough situation with these new guidelines. To alleviate such stress how about..

a) getting one of the other 6 adults that live in your house to buy a pack every now and then

2) you, yourself go to a different one of the 2000+ pharmacies in the republic

3) Buy a non-codeine based med for your headaches etc.

sesna

ebixa82 wrote: »

1) How do you do a weekly shop that lasts a month? Is it not called a monthly shop?

2) Non pharmacist staff simply can't sell these products. They can't err on the side of caution or just sell 12. It must be done by a Pharmacist.

3) It's apparent you have found yourself in a tough situation with these new guidelines. To alleviate such stress how about..

a) getting one of the other 6 adults that live in your house to buy a pack every now and then

2) you, yourself go to a different one of the 2000+ pharmacies in the republic

3) Buy a non-codeine based med for your headaches etc.

Just a small point, the legislation clearly states "by or under supervision of a pharmacist". It is not necessary for a pharmacist to sell these medicines, although individual pharmacies must implement their own policies.

The PSI's guidance does not supercede was is written down in law.