Is this a Peregrine?

Grolschevik

It looks like one, based on the pics in my birds book. Sounded young, too, and its chest was still downy. It was about the size of a cat as it sat there. Seen in Portmarnock last week. Hopefully these pics will upload... Have video, too.

Feargal as Luimneach

Juvenile Peregrine, sad to see them like that:(

Grolschevik

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

sad to see them like that:(

Why? Was it unfledged and helpless?

Kess73

It looks to me as if he is tied. The black cable/string/whatever going up the side of the pedestal looks like it is going to the bird's left leg, and the base of the pedestral is covered in lots of poo, which suggests a large bird in the one spot for a spell of time.

Grolschevik

Kess73 wrote: »

It looks to me as if he is tied. The black cable/string/whatever going up the side of the pedestal looks like it is going to the bird's left leg, and the base of the pedestral is covered in lots of poo, which suggests a large bird in the one spot for a spell of time.

Hadn't noticed that, but it's pretty unclear from the original pics or the video.

Strange place to tether it, though: it was on waste ground in the Dart station car park. No sign of it or the pedestal thing a few hours later. Unless the Dart ticket guy rescued or was keeping it...

Kess73

Grolschevik wrote: »

Hadn't noticed that, but it's pretty unclear from the original pics or the video.

Strange place to tether it, though: it was on waste ground in the Dart station car park. No sign of it or the pedestal thing a few hours later. Unless the Dart ticket guy rescued or was keeping it...

If both bird and pedestal were gone it adds weight to my suspicion it was tethered. The poo at the base is what makes me think I am right.

Grolschevik

Kess73 wrote: »

If both bird and pedestal were gone it adds weight to my suspicion it was tethered. The poo at the base is what makes me think I am right.

Who or why would someone do that? Not legal, surely?

Kess73

Grolschevik wrote: »

Who or why would someone do that? Not legal, surely?

The who or why could be many different answers to be honest. But I would imagine almost all of the possible scenarios would not be legal if indeed it was a tethered young bird left that way on wasteland.


If it was an untethered bird, then it is an amazing coincidence that the pedestal thing was also gone later as well as the bird.

Feargal as Luimneach

Grolschevik wrote: »

Who or why would someone do that? Not legal, surely?

Falconry bird, I doubt it was dumped. Those falconry birds especially peregrines would be worth alot I think.:(

Scotty #

Actually looks like some kind of 'professional' bird pedestal.

Perhaps it's part of some conservation project and being prepared for release?

Feargal as Luimneach

Scotty # wrote: »

Actually looks like some kind of 'professional' bird pedestal.

Perhaps it's part of some conservation project and being prepared for release?

Why would there be a release project for Peregrines in Ireland?

recedite

I'd say the owner was lurking nearby watching you. In fairness, if you didn't spot the tether, you wouldn't have spotted him lounging in the long grass nearby
They take captive birds out now and again and fly them at prey. Maybe it was just getting its bearings first. Is falconry illegal? I don't think so. Still, these kind of birds should be free.

Scotty #

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Why would there be a release project for Peregrines in Ireland?

To reintroduce the ones that were captured silly! :P

Scotty #

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Falconry bird, I doubt it was dumped. Those falconry birds especially peregrines would be worth alot I think.:(

you can have this beauty for €300! http://dublin.freeadsinireland.com/en-i-offer-i-id-i-245458-i-peregrine-falcon-birds-for-sale.html

Everett

Its most likely a falconers bird, the falconer is probably hired by someone for pest control in the area, and is training the bird to get to know the area.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Scotty # wrote: »

To reintroduce the ones that were captured silly! :P

I don't get the joke! There is no re-introduction programme for Peregrines. Their numbers don't require one. What ones were captured?

This bird seems to be a young captive bred bird being trained. I don't see why so many have jumped on the notion of something illegal taking place.

Alun

Everett wrote: »

Its most likely a falconers bird, the falconer is probably hired by someone for pest control in the area, and is training the bird to get to know the area.

That was my take on it too.

Kess73

Zara Fit Tourism wrote: »

I don't get the joke! There is no re-introduction programme for Peregrines. Their numbers don't require one. What ones were captured?

This bird seems to be a young captive bred bird being trained. I don't see why so many have jumped on the notion of something illegal taking place.

To be fair the location struck me as a bit off, seeing as there appears to be a main road directly behind the pedestal, and the OP described it as wasteground by the Dart station.

Any raptor training that I have been watching has been in very different locations, but you could be spot on with your take and it is just the location that is throwing me off and making me leap to the wrong conclusion.

recedite

Scotty # wrote: »

you can have this beauty for €300! http://dublin.freeadsinireland.com/en-i-offer-i-id-i-245458-i-peregrine-falcon-birds-for-sale.html

This beauty is a Greenland Gyrfalcon (for €300 you should know what you're getting)

Feargal as Luimneach

Scotty # wrote: »

To reintroduce the ones that were captured silly! :P

Foolish me...

Scotty #

Zara Fit Tourism wrote: »

I don't get the joke! There is no re-introduction programme for Peregrines.

Ok there's no re-introduction programme... I didn't know if there was or wasn't. My point was that there may not be anything illegal or 'sad' about it being there.

Grolschevik

Apparently it was "bring a pet to work day"... A guy who works at that location apparently breeds and flies them.

LostCovey

Zara Fit Tourism wrote: »

I don't get the joke! What ones were captured?

Hi Zara Fit Tourism,

I expect that 'Scotty #' is having a cut at the National Parks and Wildlife Service here, and the joke is at their expense. The story doing the rounds is that the NPWS allow some Irish Peregrine Falcons to be captured every year from the wild under licence by falconry enthusiasts. I believe the falconers run a lottery among themselves and the prize is the right to capture a wild Peregrine. Sounds totally mad but apparently it's true.

I think 'Scotty #' was suggesting this bird was to be released to make up for the wild birds taken.

LostCovey

Feargal as Luimneach

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi Srameen,

I expect that 'Scotty #' is having a cut at the National Parks and Wildlife Service here, and the joke is at their expense. The story doing the rounds is that the NPWS allow some Irish Peregrine Falcons to be captured every year from the wild under licence by falconry enthusiasts. I believe the falconers run a lottery among themselves and the prize is the right to capture a wild Peregrine. Sounds totally mad but apparently it's true.

I think 'Scotty #' was suggesting this bird was to be released to make up for the wild birds taken.

LostCovey

I heard the same thing:mad:

Grolschevik

LostCovey wrote: »

the NPWS allow some Irish Peregrine Falcons to be captured every year from the wild under licence by falconry enthusiasts

Why would they? For funds?

Feargal as Luimneach

They would probably rob them anyway. Try and keep them a bit onside I suppose:mad:

Tiercel Dave

Ok, looks like a young Peregrine, at this stage would be about 12 wks old, probably a male, but stand to be corrected. It is tethered by a 'leash' to a 'block', all fully legal and licenced. Most likely at that spot to accustom it to people, traffic, even trains before being trained to hunt and return to handler. NPWS gave out 5 licences this year to take young birds from nests, again fully legal and licenced, and each bird will be individually registered. Peregrines can be bred in captivity, each bird will carry a NPWS ring, and again be individually registered. As for 'Poo' on the block, come on, I've seen more on my car windscreen after a sparrow flew over! Regards.

LostCovey

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

NPWS gave out 5 licences this year to take young birds from nests

FIVE ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

LostCovey

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

They would probably rob them anyway. Try and keep them a bit onside I suppose:mad:

We don't take that approach with car theft.

LC

Kess73

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

Ok, looks like a young Peregrine, at this stage would be about 12 wks old, probably a male, but stand to be corrected. It is tethered by a 'leash' to a 'block', all fully legal and licenced. Most likely at that spot to accustom it to people, traffic, even trains before being trained to hunt and return to handler. NPWS gave out 5 licences this year to take young birds from nests, again fully legal and licenced, and each bird will be individually registered. Peregrines can be bred in captivity, each bird will carry a NPWS ring, and again be individually registered. As for 'Poo' on the block, come on, I've seen more on my car windscreen after a sparrow flew over! Regards.

The OP has already posted that it was left there are part of a pet to work day. So the version of it being a bird being trained looks like a no no.


Interesting that you stated that it is a licenced bird though rather than saying it is most likely a licenced bird.


The poo on the block comment was to state that I thought the bird was tethered based on the poo at the base of the pedestal or block, and that it was not an untethered bird.

Tiercel Dave

In order for a Peregrine to sit on a block, unhooded, in that situation, with no sign of distress shows that it has already been through at least a few weeks of training, so I would still say it's all part of the training process.
I would never consider a Peregrine a 'pet' but I can see your point.
I can only presume it's a licenced bird because I can't imagine that anybody, trying to keep a 'stolen' one under wraps, would tether it beside Portmarnock Dart station!
Most seem to think that there was no way a bird could be legally tethered to a block and 'that' is what I was saying was legal and licenced.
Yep, 5 licences! Regards

LostCovey

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

In order for a Peregrine to sit on a block, unhooded, in that situation, with no sign of distress shows that it has already been through at least a few weeks of training, so I would still say it's all part of the training process.
I would never consider a Peregrine a 'pet' but I can see your point.
I can only presume it's a licenced bird because I can't imagine that anybody, trying to keep a 'stolen' one under wraps, would tether it beside Portmarnock Dart station!
Most seem to think that there was no way a bird could be legally tethered to a block and 'that' is what I was saying was legal and licenced.
Yep, 5 licences! Regards

Hi Tiercel Dave

Well it's very refreshing to see someone in this country for someone be so frank & open about something that always seemed a bit cloak & dagger and something of a well-kept secret. Fair play, it is the best defence of all.

The reason I questioned the five was in relation to the total number of professional/competent falconers in the country. Five a year must get pretty close to one for everyone in the audience in a few years. Where are they all going? Can the birds taken from the wild be sold on & traded within licenced falconry? Can they be exported under a CITES licence?

LostCovey

Feargal as Luimneach

Do the take the whole clutch or do they take one bird from a clutch (the youngest and least likely to survive)???

Tiercel Dave

Hello LostCovey, most into Falconry don't seek out publicity that's why it may seem to be a closed group. Birds tend to fly and perform better with only a small entourage of followers, between 4 and 6 people is more than sufficient to make up a party. Goshawks are usually even more sulky, limiting the party to 'one man and his dog'. Birds flown at 'shows' are not necessarily good Falconry birds, and in my opinon are most likely not, but that's how those with an interest get to experience and appreciate Falcons and Hawks up close. Shows can also help with educating, as to the folly of poisons etc. in relation to raptors.
I've no idea how many Falconers there are in Ireland, I would hazard a guess at 250-300!!! To be eligible for a 'Wild Take' Peregrine licence, one needs a certain level of competance, and again a wild guess of say 100, so you can see how often you might expect your name to come out of the NPWS hat!
Of this years 5 licences I only know of 4 that were taken, but again correct me if needs be. A CITES cert, A10, will have to be applied for and this will stipulate certain conditions in relation to the keeping and passing on of the bird. Normally a wild taken Peregrine has to remain in the possession of the 'taker' for at least a year, cannot be sold or used for public display and will need the sanction of the NPWS if it is to be passed on after that time.
Hope that clears up a few points. Regards

Tiercel Dave

There must be at least 3 young in the nest and only 1 is taken. The 'taker' is accompanied by the NPWS Wildlife Ranger of that area throughout.

Grolschevik

Kess73 wrote: »

The OP has already posted that it was left there are part of a pet to work day. So the version of it being a bird being trained looks like a no no.

Sorry, I was just being humorous. There was no "pet to work day"...

LostCovey

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

Hello LostCovey, most into Falconry don't seek out publicity that's why it may seem to be a closed group. Birds tend to fly and perform better with only a small entourage of followers, between 4 and 6 people is more than sufficient to make up a party. Goshawks are usually even more sulky, limiting the party to 'one man and his dog'. Birds flown at 'shows' are not necessarily good Falconry birds, and in my opinon are most likely not, but that's how those with an interest get to experience and appreciate Falcons and Hawks up close. Shows can also help with educating, as to the folly of poisons etc. in relation to raptors.
I've no idea how many Falconers there are in Ireland, I would hazard a guess at 250-300!!! To be eligible for a 'Wild Take' Peregrine licence, one needs a certain level of competance, and again a wild guess of say 100, so you can see how often you might expect your name to come out of the NPWS hat!
Of this years 5 licences I only know of 4 that were taken, but again correct me if needs be. A CITES cert, A10, will have to be applied for and this will stipulate certain conditions in relation to the keeping and passing on of the bird. Normally a wild taken Peregrine has to remain in the possession of the 'taker' for at least a year, cannot be sold or used for public display and will need the sanction of the NPWS if it is to be passed on after that time.
Hope that clears up a few points. Regards

Thanks Tiercel Dave, very clear. A very simple way to dispel misplaced fears.

Fair do's

LostCovey

Tiercel Dave

Thanks yourself LostCovey, just happy to clear up a few points!

Feargal as Luimneach

A little story on the fate of one of the Falcon chicks taken (legally) from the Peregrines in Hollywood Wicklow. The falconer's house was less than two miles from the Peregrine nest and this was where he took the chick. He was training his peregrine in the field outside his house (at a later date), when a large female Peregrine landed on a post around 100 metres from the young peregrine. The young peregrine (male) flew towards the female bird. They perched side by side for a while and they both flew off together. The young peregrine never came back to the falconer:D

Tiercel Dave

Did he not have telemetry Feargal?

Feargal as Luimneach

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

Did he not have telemetry Feargal?

Like a GPS? I don't know. They think the female might have been the parent. I wasn't there when it happened.

magicbastarder

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

The young peregrine never came back to the falconer:D

things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

kildare.17hmr

Feargal what do you have against falconry??

magicbastarder

i assume he prefers to see a peregrine out in the wild rather than kept as a pet, because that would be my reaction.

kildare.17hmr

So you dont agree with the sport/past time then?

magicbastarder

it's not something which keeps me awake at night.

kildare.17hmr

I know what ya mean, i was only askin because feargal has :mad: in a few of his comments and i was wondering what the problem was

Feargal as Luimneach

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume he prefers to see a peregrine out in the wild rather than kept as a pet, because that would be my reaction.

Yes that is it.

Also unregulated Falconry in some countries is a threat to wild raptor populations. The threat is greater with highly prized falconry birds such as Gyrfalcons. Here's a link:
http://www.europeanraptors.org/raptors/gyrfalcon.html

Another birds which are greatly threatened by falconry are the rare saker falcon and lanner falcon:

http://www.europeanraptors.org/raptors/lanner_falcon.html

http://www.europeanraptors.org/raptors/saker_falcon.html

Tiercel Dave

Hi Feargal, not a GPS system, they are only being developed at the moment. Basically a transmitter that can be detected at about 20-25 miles, line of sight. Anybody that flies a Falcon, and more especially a Peregrine without a tracking device deserves to lose it. As a Peregrine is being trained and is getting to a certain level of fitness you have to 'up' their weight. As you 'up' their weight the bond between you and the bird weakens. For a Peregrine to perform at it's best, it will be high in weight and if it puts in a drive can be gone in a matter of seconds.
Can I give you my 2cents as regards the tale. A young Peregrine taken from a nest would be no older than 5 weeks 'cause any later and they would tend to jump. A Peregrine would be fully feathered at 12 weeks and to get as far as flying free would be a further 3 weeks. So it would be at least 10 weeks since it's mother, the Falcon, had seen it and the maternal bond would have been long broken. When a bird being trained is spotted by a wild Falcon it's not a paternal/maternal response that's triggered but one of pure aggression as the resident bird tries to drive the interloper out of the county if not into the ground!
A Peregrine is master of the skies and I would find it very strange indeed if a wild bird came down and perched on a post, with the Falconer in attendance, a very high pylon maybe, but even that stretches the imagination.
One problem when flying a Bird of Prey is that any resident birds will appear from nowhere to defend their territory. To fly a Peregrine within range of a known territory is pure folly 'cause a young trained bird will have no hope of outflying a resident wild bird. Trying to visualise the two birds flying off over the Horizon beggars belief!
If the Peregrine was lost fairly, no harm was done. By 'fairly' I mean furnished with jesses that have no slits, so no chance of getting snagged. Aylmeri jesses can be removed by the Falcon, and they'd have them gone in 2 or 3 days. Bells don't hamper a Falcon's ability to fly or kill and again if fairly fitted, ie leather bewits not cable ties, they will be gone in a couple of months. Assuming all was as it should be,not only was no harm done but the wild population has actually benefited. The amount of food available in a territory is what normally determines how successful a nest is and now we have an extra bird raised, and hopefully flying free. A learning curve for all involved! Dave

Feargal as Luimneach

Thanks for info Dave:)
Would it not be possible for the Peregrine Female to remember the chick (providing it was the parent) ?. I know they are different species but in Donegal when the Golden eagles have two chicks, they remove one chick. That chick is fostered to Harris Hawks and then at a later date the bird was returned to the nest. The Golden eagle parents accepted the bird...

Tiercel Dave

Once a Peregrine is sitting on a brood it's possible to slip in another 1 or 2 young of a similar age as long as there is sufficient food available. Once the young have left the nest however the aggression response is what would be shown to any tresspassers. I'd hazzard a guess and say the parent bond is gone after about 2 weeks apart. Around the nest there is a 'no kill' zone, the female walks rather stiffly with her talons bunched so as not to damage eggs or young birds, 'eyasses' (as we call 'em) A better plan for the eagles, would be to foster the 2nd one to another nest where the eggs were infertile, and then both young would have a better chance of surviving. The foster pair would then think that they have been successful and the pair-bond would be given a hugh boost.