No 'panic button' app for Irish Facebook users

syklops

From [url]www.breakingnews.ie:[/url]

Teenagers who use Facebook in Ireland will not be able to download a new "panic" button being introduced in Britain today.

It is being introduced to offer immediate help to young people who fear they are being targeted by predators on the popular social networking site.

From today in Britain, all under 18s who are on Facebook will be prompted to download the panic button when they log in.

It has a direct link to a special unit in the UK which cracks down on internet paedophiles.

Several high-profile cases led to calls for a panic button, including the rape and murder of a 17-year-old who was killed by a convicted sex offender that she met on the site.

But Irish teenagers will not be able to download the panic button, because it is only available to people with UK IP addresses.

This means that teens who encounter a problem with an online user will have to trawl through the site to complain and seek help, instead of just pressing a single button.

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-panic-button-app-for-irish-facebook-users-465175.html#ixzz0tTFkKezP

I read this, and thought "What a waste of time and money". I am glad it is not being implemented here. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to manage that special crime unit?

While I am all for anything the can do to crack down internet predators, this is just silly. Not to mention the fact it could be used as another method of cyber bullying.

Thoughts anyone?

chin_grin

Thoughts anyone?

Yes, parents need to stop being technotards! I mean let your child have some freedom online. But monitor their usage and limit it if needs be.

ShooterSF

http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/imageSnag/VogonGeoEngineering.png


What a silly idea.

smash

Can you imagine the abuse this button will get...

kfallon

*shaking my head*

What a load of bollix, the 'Faecebook' is a load of me hoop!

chin_grin

kfallon wrote: »

*shaking my head*

What a load of bollix, the 'Faecebook' is a load of me hoop!

How does one subscribe to your newsletter.............?

o1s1n

About as useful as Elton John's internet off switch.

MrStuffins

"OMG! Did she just say that my boyfriend was plowing her Farmville?" *Hits Panic Button

I guarentee not ONE Paedo is caught using this, very well thought out, service!

syklops

MrStuffins wrote: »

I guarentee not ONE Paedo is caught using this, very well thought out, service!

They mention the guy who raped and murdered the girl he met on Facebook. The panic button wouldnt have saved her life.

Standard Toaster

Alt-F4 / cmd+w does the same thing

Dravokivich

syklops wrote: »

Thoughts anyone?

I feel this is all due to the parents thinking a social site should be looking out for their kids and holding more responsiblity over what kids view, then taking the responsiblity as a parent to help encourage awareness in their children.

kfallon

chin_grin wrote: »

How does one subscribe to your newsletter.............?

It will be coming free thru your letterbox very soon!

Einhard

There seems to be an increasing trend in the UK to wrap children in as much cotton wool as possible, and shield them from every possible danger they might face. Only last week the Sunday Times was reporting on the case of the parents threatened with child services because they let their son (8) and daugher (5) cycle the mile to school everyday. What's more, it was other parents who reported it to the school, whose principal called them in and threatened to report them.

The panic button idea is just part of this "nannyism", and it threatens to cause more damage to children than the largely imaginary dangers it aims to minimise. Next thing you know, we'll have calls for Facebook to install panic rooms as well as panic buttons!!

eightyfish

ShooterSF wrote: »

http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/imageSnag/VogonGeoEngineering.png What a silly idea.

Took me a minute to get that one!

AgileMyth

But the problem with 'predators' only arises if the kid decides to meet them. If they are meeting them then they probably trust them and wouldn't have pressed the button in the first place.

All in all its a total waste of time, money and manpower.

smash

Recently some women's rights group wanted it installed for female users to prevent sexual harassment and bullying... Idiots!

Superbus

The weird thing is that is completely and utterly the underage person's fault if something bad happens out of Facebook. First of all, you have to accept the potential paedophile as a friend before they can do anything; then once they start acting suspiciously, you can block them; then you can delete them as a friend; then you can cop yourself on and not meet up with a random person who found you on the internet.

Idiots. Anyone who can be attacked by supposed internet predators shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

AgileMyth

steve06 wrote: »

Recently some women's rights group wanted it installed for female users to prevent sexual harassment and bullying... Idiots!

What is this women's rights you speak of?

Yakult

*hits Panic Button*


Expect these guys to appear
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/426145/1000309.jpg

eightyfish

AgileMyth wrote: »

But the problem with 'predators' only arises if the kid decides to meet them.

Yes! This is where the effort and finance should be directed to tackle this problem. Children need to be provided with a Panic Rock.

smash

I think it starts like this...

WindSock

Under 18's should only be allowed stick to bebo.

Riamfada

It looks like a little X and is located on the top right of your screen.

Tards

Millicent

Superbus wrote: »

The weird thing is that is completely and utterly the underage person's fault if something bad happens out of Facebook. First of all, you have to accept the potential paedophile as a friend before they can do anything; then once they start acting suspiciously, you can block them; then you can delete them as a friend; then you can cop yourself on and not meet up with a random person who found you on the internet.

Idiots. Anyone who can be attacked by supposed internet predators shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

It's completely and utterly a child's fault if they are sexually assaulted by someone they met on the internet? Good logic! In no way the paedophile's fault then, no?

28064212

Superbus wrote: »

The weird thing is that is completely and utterly the underage person's fault if something bad happens out of Facebook. First of all, you have to accept the potential paedophile as a friend before they can do anything; then once they start acting suspiciously, you can block them; then you can delete them as a friend; then you can cop yourself on and not meet up with a random person who found you on the internet.

Idiots. Anyone who can be attacked by supposed internet predators shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

Actually, I'd say it's the technophobic parents' fault. Allowing a child unrestricted access to the internet is the equivalent of dressing them in a gimp outfit, dumping them in the middle of Times Square at midnight and expecting them to find their own way home. No-one under the age of 16 should be allowed on a computer without being supervised (at the very least, the computer should be in a communal family room)

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

In no way the paedophile's fault then, no?

It's not their fault they're so damn pretty.

ShooterSF

Millicent wrote: »

It's completely and utterly a child's fault if they are sexually assaulted by someone they met on the internet? Good logic! In no way the paedophile's fault then, no?

I think his point was the child can prevent the situation occurring numerous times before it gets to the point where its out of their control and therefore its better to educate people (not just kids) about such dangers.

Millicent

ShooterSF wrote: »

I think his point was the child can prevent the situation occurring numerous times before it gets to the point where its out of their control and therefore its better to educate people (not just kids) about such dangers.

I get that point. Kids should be educated- I mean at 12 or 13, your brain isn't quite cooked and you may do things you'd never dream of doing as an adult. Still not the kid's fault if a paedophile assaults them.

Kasabian

Superbus wrote: »

The weird thing is that is completely and utterly the underage person's fault if something bad happens out of Facebook. First of all, you have to accept the potential paedophile as a friend before they can do anything; then once they start acting suspiciously, you can block them; then you can delete them as a friend; then you can cop yourself on and not meet up with a random person who found you on the internet.

Idiots. Anyone who can be attacked by supposed internet predators shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

Jesus, that is some load of twisted reasoning. Kids don't think like adults as you have clearly displayed in your post.

Mal-Adjusted

Millicent wrote: »

I get that point. Kids should be educated- I mean at 12 or 13, your brain isn't quite cooked and you may do things you'd never dream of doing as an adult. Still not the kid's fault if a paedophile assaults them.

oh, come on, it's the equivalent of walking across a road with your eyes closed. of course it's the paedobears fault, but anybody who winds up in the position where they could be targeted is practically inviting it! (and no, i don't mean that literally!)

Millicent

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

oh, come on, it's the equivalent of walking across a road with your eyes closed. of course it's the paedobears fault, but anybody who winds up in the position where they could be targeted is practically inviting it! (and no, i don't mean that literally!)

It's not the equivalent. If it's their first time crossing the road or if they have never encountered a car on the road, the analogy is equivalent. If they have been taught nothing about paedophiles or correct use of the internet then no, it is not the equivalent. No child invites a sexual assault (literally, figuratively or otherwise)- that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Mal-Adjusted

Millicent wrote: »

It's not the equivalent. If it's their first time crossing the road or if they have never encountered a car on the road, the analogy is equivalent. If they have been taught nothing about paedophiles or correct use of the internet then no, it is not the equivalent. No child invites a sexual assault (literally, figuratively or otherwise)- that's a ridiculous thing to say.

children are thought from the moment they can walk not to talk to strangers or to go off on their own. anyone who goes off to meet a person they "met" on the internet still knows that they are doing something wrong.

Biggins

The panic button should be a fully standard worldwide feature WITHOUT it having to be additionally installed.
What facebook have done is a joke to be honest. They are treating the pubic like muppets.

Millicent

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

children are thought from the moment they can walk not to talk to strangers or to go off on their own. anyone who goes off to meet a person they "met" on the internet still knows that they are doing something wrong.

I have met several people from the internet- none of them have raped me. I'm an adult though- I know the risks.

The person a child meets off the internet is likely not a stranger to them, at least in their eyes. Most paedophiles groom a victim first. Talk to them, compliment them, gain their trust. Other paedophiles pose as younger people to lure their victims into a false sense of security. Paedophiles are cunning and shameless about doing whatever they need to to assault their victims. Just because a ten year old doesn't have the mental capacity to deal with them correctly or to just tell them to fuck off before it gets that far, doesn't mean it is the child's fault.

onlyrocknroll

Sounds like a good idea to me. A sexual predator may well approach numerous children or teenagers. If anyone of these hits the panic button then at least that predator will come to Facebook's attention who can act on it.

It's not as impractical as it sounds. Facebook should be able to easily ascertain if the reported adult user is behaving unusually in sending invitations to children by checking how many requests to children have been sent/rejected, friends in common, IP addresses etc. That person can then be contacted, and if they can't properly account for why they have sent requests to many children Facebook can contact the police in their area.

Sounds like a cheap, practical and sensible approach to me. I don't see any privacy or nanny state issues involved. Just common sense. Shame that it isn't be initiated in Ireland.

PS anybody who blames a child for being raped and killed, and then calls them "idiots" is... I'll probably get banned if I finish that sentence.

eightyfish

WindSock wrote: »

Under 18's should only be allowed stick to bebo.

I can imagine the birthday cards of the future:
"Now you're 18! You can drink, vote, and have a Facebook page."

super_furry

wrote:

It is being introduced to offer immediate help to young people who fear they are being targeted by predators on the popular social networking site.

I've got a better solution to predators on Facebook. http://minimatefactory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dutch.jpg

syklops

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea to me. A sexual predator may well approach numerous children or teenagers. If anyone of these hits the panic button then at least that predator will come to Facebook's attention who can act on it.

It's not as impractical as it sounds. Facebook should be able to easily ascertain if the reported adult user is behaving unusually in sending invitations to children by checking how many requests to children have been sent/rejected, friends in common, IP addresses etc. That person can then be contacted, and if they can't properly account for why they have sent requests to many children Facebook can contact the police in their area.

Whats stopping me and a few of my friends reporting you using the panic button. You have 3 or 4 buddies who are children, why have you got children on your facebook? What do you think is an acceptable reason for having them on your facebook?

smash

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

It's not as impractical as it sounds. Facebook should be able to easily ascertain if the reported adult user is behaving unusually in sending invitations to children by checking how many requests to children have been sent/rejected, friends in common, IP addresses etc.

Then you've got a case where you have an adult in an household with their children. Both may have facebook accounts and maybe the child is a bit of a bully or is just horny and gets reported. Facebook check the IP and see that it matches that of the adult, adult gets branded as a Paedo or something with a fake profile and the police turn up at their door. Result = law suite against facebook.

Then you have those who use internet cafes, and those that have a foreign IP because they go through a central server so they can't really be tracked.

onlyrocknroll

syklops wrote: »

Whats stopping me and a few of my friends reporting you using the panic button. You have 3 or 4 buddies who are children, why have you got children on your facebook? What do you think is an acceptable reason for having them on your facebook?

Ok, say if you or someone does that as a prank or its something malicious or whatever. Facebook could simply easily check whether those 3 or 4 children are related to me (by seeing second names, some people include this in their personal info) or have many friends in common with me. I have only one child friend on Facebook who is my cousin. We have 11 friends in common (which is a fairly large proportion of her total number of friends) and most of them share my second name.

Anybody who has 3 or 4 friends who are children, with no obvious connection, and 1 of whom has pressed the panic button does sound suspicious to me. And even if it gets to that stage, Facebook simply contact that person who has a chance to explain.

onlyrocknroll

steve06 wrote: »

Then you've got a case where you have an adult in an household with their children. Both may have facebook accounts and maybe the child is a bit of a bully or is just horny and gets reported. Facebook check the IP and see that it matches that of the adult, adult gets branded as a Paedo or something with a fake profile and the police turn up at their door. Result = law suite against facebook.

Then you have those who use internet cafes, and those that have a foreign IP because they go through a central server so they can't really be tracked.

As to your first point I think that Facebook would check accounts and IP addresses simultaneously.

As to your second, that is a serious flaw in the panic button idea, but it does not make sense to fail to use a policy that will detect some predators but not all. Any action has limitations, more sophisticated predators will get around this one like any, but it will still catch some.

smash

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Anybody who has 3 or 4 friends who are children, with no obvious connection, and 1 of whom has pressed the panic button does sound suspicious to me. And even if it gets to that stage, Facebook simply contact that person who has a chance to explain.

I think you're underestimating things...

Someone joins facebook pretending to be a 16 year old guy. Finds say a 15 year old girl, adds her and 90% of her friends. A lot of them will accept because they want more friends or might think their fake photo is cute of something. Suddenly he has 15/20 friends in common with his prey even though none of them know him. So then they all add him because he has friends in common.

Stercus Accidit

Facebook didn't want to add this idiotic module, they were forced to by some idiotic plebian tabloid hysteria group.

Your child is more likely to be molested by a family member, just have a panic button surgically grafted onto the top of their head sure. :rolleyes:

It'll have to be wired into the wall though, can't be having any radio waves (cancerous death beams) near their precious little bonces, best be wearing a helmet too.

That article is crap 'Irish users wont get button', the button is UK ONLY because of some idiotic pressure group, hysterical article is hysterical.

onlyrocknroll

steve06 wrote: »

I think you're underestimating things...

Someone joins facebook pretending to be a 16 year old guy. Finds say a 15 year old girl, adds her and 90% of her friends. A lot of them will accept because they want more friends or might think their fake photo is cute of something. Suddenly he has 15/20 friends in common with his prey even though none of them know him. So then they all add him because he has friends in common.

I'm sure this happens and its hard to defend against. But my reply is the same as above. It's better to use a method of detection that will catch some predators even if more sophisticated ones can get around it. In this instance I think that the cost/benefit ratio is heavily in favour of a panic button. I'm not somebody who overreacts to dangers like this and believes in heavy handed scrutiny, nanny states and big brother etc. But a panic button is easy, sensible and provides some degree of protection for children.

smash

There's no way in hell this will last though. The button will instantly alert the police... why do you think this is? It's because facebook know it will be abused and is of no real benefit. The police will get tired of pumping resources into something like that.

Biggins

steve06 wrote: »

There's no way in hell this will last though. The button will instantly alert the police... why do you think this is? It's because facebook know it will be abused and is of no real benefit. The police will get tired of pumping resources into something like that.

Just how many cases have actually been recorded of this being abused exactly for you to make that claim?
Can you please show numbers of ANY links or recorded numbers to backup that claim?

The fact is that such buttons exists on other similar sites for some time now and so far there has been NO cases reported in the media where anyone has been targeted wrongly and been hauled before a court! If there is PLEASE point them out.

The fact is that when the button is pressed a number of things are recorded/forwarded, the IP address of the sender and of the potential abuser.
Both are investigated (amid other things) as to confirmation of age and ownership I assume of the system that is being used to access communication.

As for this stuff about internet cafes, not every cafe has a internal camera for security but those that do by review, record who is at what machine and via package data on the server in the cafe/shop will further help to verify faces to the ages that one is saying they are on the net, and even further will show to the law who the person is that is doing it. Food for thought.

smash

Biggins wrote: »

Just how many cases have actually been recorded of this being abused exactly for you to make that claim?
Can you please show numbers of ANY links or recorded numbers to backup that claim?

Well ask a few other mods here about posts being reported and see what kind of stuff people report and if it's worth reporting. I work in user interface design and I know that things like this do get abused.

Biggins wrote: »

The fact is that such buttons exists on other similar sites for some time now and so far there has been NO cases reported in the media where anyone has been targeted wrongly and been hauled before a court! If there is PLEASE point them out.

There's also been no cases where someone has been caught and charged as a result of a panic button call. Generally the report goes to a mod, a mod decides if it's warranted and a warning is issued.

onlyrocknroll

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Facebook didn't want to add this idiotic module, they were forced to by some idiotic plebian tabloid hysteria group.

Your child is more likely to be molested by a family member, just have a panic button surgically grafted onto the top of their head sure. :rolleyes:

It'll have to be wired into the wall though, can't be having any radio waves (cancerous death beams) near their precious little bonces, best be wearing a helmet too.

That article is crap 'Irish users wont get button', the button is UK ONLY because of some idiotic pressure group, hysterical article is hysterical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Biggins

steve06 wrote: »

Well ask a few mods here about posts being reported and see what kind of stuff people report and if it's worth reporting. I work in user interface design and I know that things like this do get abused.

What has mods got to do with Facebook! Totally off track and irrelevant. The reports go direct to an investigation unit attached to child protection.
Of course some young fools are going to press the button but such matters will be looked into and dealed with appropriately.
To try and claim that it will newly lead to big abuse though is scaremongering to say the least.

smash

Biggins wrote: »

What has mods got to do with Facebook! Totally off track and irrelevant. The reports go direct to an investigation unit attached to child protection.
Of course some young fools are going to press the button but such matters will be looked into and dealed with appropriately.
To try and claim that it will newly lead to big abuse though is scaremongering to say the least.

It's to do with a report button and how often it's pressed. On facebook if you don't like someone, you remove them as a friend. If they do something inappropriate you can report them. Another level of added security in the form of a panic button isn't going to make much difference.

I'm saying there's going to be a lot of resources pumped into it by this new investigation unit but there will more than likely be a lot of unwarranted reporting, or reporting for the wrong reasons.

Mal-Adjusted

steve06 wrote: »

It's to do with a report button and how often it's pressed. On facebook if you don't like someone, you remove them as a friend. If they do something inappropriate you can report them. Another level of added security in the form of a panic button isn't going to make much difference.

I'm saying there's going to be a lot of resources pumped into it by this new investigation unit but there will more than likely be a lot of unwarranted reporting, or reporting for the wrong reasons.

most likely, it'll be like the 999 call, assuming falsely accusing someone can land you in a heap of trouble. It could be used in ignorance, though, by people freaking out over nothing.