Help: Fraud by the Vet- the guards be involved/solicitor?

tallus

thebullkf wrote: »

trust me its true;)

i have two dogs myself, i'd love to .... that vet (insert expletive).

Vets council said there's nothing they can do.

dog's chip was changed also......


:mad:

'there is so much more to this story its unreal...suffice to sday the vets practice on the east coast of Ireland....

If the dogs chip was changed, would that not suggest that the dog did not escape by accident, I'd see that as a very strong indication of the disappearance being deliberate.
What's the next step OP ? have the Gardaí had any input ? surely there's a case for fraud here.

ISDW

thebullkf wrote: »

trust me its true;)

i have two dogs myself, i'd love to .... that vet (insert expletive).

Vets council said there's nothing they can do.

dog's chip was changed also......


:mad:

'there is so much more to this story its unreal...suffice to sday the vets practice on the east coast of Ireland....

What do you mean? The chip can't be changed, unless its cut out and another one inserted.

Ptotty

After watching that BBC Panorama documentary on unscrupulous vets and also from my own experience and trouble down through the years in trying to find a decent down to earth vet who loves being in the Vet business to help animals and not for the money.
I'm afraid this story is not that far fetched.
I would say that dog was heading for the UK before he managed to escape and get home.
I still have not found a vet I could trust %100 with my pets,and trust me I have tried vets in a good few different counties.
If only my pets could speak.The horror stories they would tell me about all those times I paid for the privilege for my pets to be tortured.
Good luck with the courts.
But unfortunately the courts will always tend to favour the Professional Vet with a well bought clean slate & happy clients, over a lay-persons wild imagination (as they will see it) 90% of the time.
What we the public need is a web-site like Rate-Your-Solicitor(dot)com except it would be Rate-Your-Vet.

The Sweeper

ISDW is correct, the chip cannot be changed unless the original chip is removed by surgery - not easy, seeing as the chip is the size of a grain of rice, so you would see evidence of the surgery - the dog would be shaved etc.

The chip number cannot be changed.

The only way the chip details can be changed is through signed change of ownership forms, and if they do or do not have those, it should be easy to demonstrate that the dog was not sold, or that the signatures are forged.

morganafay

What if the dog escaped say, and someone found it and took it in, took it to another vet who scanned it and couldn't find the chip (apparently they can fall out over time or move to the shoulder or somewhere), so they put in a new chip.

If the chip was changed, can't you get the details that were registered for the new chip?

Feargal as Luimneach

The Sweeper wrote: »

ISDW is correct, the chip cannot be changed unless the original chip is removed by surgery - not easy, seeing as the chip is the size of a grain of rice, so you would see evidence of the surgery - the dog would be shaved etc.

The chip number cannot be changed.

The only way the chip details can be changed is through signed change of ownership forms, and if they do or do not have those, it should be easy to demonstrate that the dog was not sold, or that the signatures are forged.

X2
You would have to do alot of rooting to get a chip out... Beginning to think this whole story is a load of lies

goat2

thebullkf wrote: »

Hi,

Any Vets on Boards?....please PM if you are.;)

i have a pretty serious issue regarding a neighbours dog.
He {the owner} has asked me for advice regarding his prized {blank}.
i think its best if i keep the breed anon. because this might go the legal route.
the reason i'm posting this here is to gauge reaction,garner advice,make an informed decision and basically see if anyone else has a similar experience.
....
ok,

basically the old guy has a very valuable dog, full breed,champion in his class etc.
now-apparently the dog was very sick recently and was brought to his local vet...

vet said to leave him there overnight.
fair enough you'd think.
not so......vet rang next morning and said the dog had died during the night.....havingh eaten something that poisoned him.
and had to be cremated.
as you can imagine,the owner was distraught,tbh he was inconsolable.
he went to the vets and was handed an Urn, and a bill!
this is the disturbing part......
the owner was in his front garden the other day and lo and behold
HIS DOG RAN INTO HIS GARDEN....
the old man couldn't believe it,,,,had been praying ever since his death.
is delighted to have him back but the vet lied to him,charged him,and IMHO
deserves to be struck off,reported,fined etc
..
can anyone help/ advise please..
i am so fcukin angry right now:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

what can i do?
thanks

how much time elapsed since the receiving of the urn, and dog returning home.
this is unbeleivable
then what ashes were in urn
the vet has to answer questions, did he sell dog to others,

andreac

goat2 wrote: »

how much time elapsed since the receiving of the urn, and dog returning home.
this is unbeleivable
then what ashes were in urn
the vet has to answer questions, did he sell dog to others,

No, he didnt sell the dog as the dog returned itself to the owner.

morganafay

andreac wrote: »

No, he didnt sell the dog as the dog returned itself to the owner.

I doubt he sold it but it's possible he did and then the dog escaped and made its way back home.

goat2

morganafay wrote: »

I doubt he sold it but it's possible he did and then the dog escaped and made its way back home.

how long time passed, between the vet saying the dog died, and lassie coming home.
this is an offence, and i am shure will cause a stir
is the place a close neighbourhood, does the vet live far away from the dogs owners home, this is unbeleivable.
could the vet lose his licence to practice for this kind of behaviour

Dusty87

Not saying this is a lie but in PC Ireland wouldnt this be in a red rag top by now?? Discussing something as serious as this on boards, chips changed etc. I know what id be doin.
Not putting it on boards anyway until court case is over.
If he needs you to ask on boards for opinions, hes obviously not angry enough about it.

thebullkf

AS the title says,apologies for the delay.

for some reason my sub. e-mails don't work .:o

right i'll try and address some issues/misconceptions/questions.

The Sweeper wrote: »

ISDW is correct, the chip cannot be changed unless the original chip is removed by surgery - not easy, seeing as the chip is the size of a grain of rice, so you would see evidence of the surgery - the dog would be shaved etc.

The chip number cannot be changed.

The only way the chip details can be changed is through signed change of ownership forms

AFAIK the chip was put into the vets name.

not removed,but rather ownership details changed.

{my opinion is the fucker tried keeping the dog for himself}

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

X2
You would have to do alot of rooting to get a chip out... Beginning to think this whole story is a load of lies

why would you think that?

based on what evidence?
how very assuming of you!
tbh i find that insulting:mad:

.

goat2 wrote: »

how much time elapsed since the receiving of the urn, and dog returning home.
this is unbeleivable
then what ashes were in urn
the vet has to answer questions, did he sell dog to others,

see above.^

its a disgrace,who knows what kind of craps been going on.
most people visit the vet very rarely.this particular person was an excellent,loyal customer.....counted for nothing in the end.

trust has been compromised

goat2 wrote: »

how long time passed, between the vet saying the dog died, and lassie coming home.
this is an offence, and i am shure will cause a stir
is the place a close neighbourhood, does the vet live far away from the dogs owners home, this is unbeleivable.
could the vet lose his licence to practice for this kind of behaviour

.


Vets council say there helpless,local Gardai refuse to get involved-its a tight community,vet lives 5miles+ from owners home.
i can hardly believe the Dog arrived back meself,i saw dog personally.

trust me folks,this is real.
its an outrage,an abuse of power and illegal in my eyes.

unfortunately not 1 vet (if indeed any are on boards-though i'm sure there are) has Pm'd me.
i didn't see the Panorama programme,nor have i heard the "urban legend" mentioned earlier.


all i'd say to the guilty vet is:
i know your dirty little secret.....you'll be caught :mad::mad::mad:

to all concerned posters,tks for takin the time to post.

this pre-mod thing is frustrating but necessary i suppose.

g'night

seamus

thebullkf wrote: »

AFAIK the chip was put into the vets name.

not removed,but rather ownership details changed.

{my opinion is the fucker tried keeping the dog for himself}

I imagine vets do get to play the trust card in this respect - much like shelters do - and can have the details of a chip changed without needing signed forms. All he would have to do is tell them that the owner left the dog in for treatment and then never returned, so he's taking ownership.

However, no information is stored on the microchip. It's simply an identifier. A company controls the database of animal details, which links an animal's ownership details to the ID on the chip. If those details are changed, there's a complete audit trail - when it was changed, by whom and any documentation provided to assert that change.

In order to bypass the audit trail, the vet would need to know someone who has direct access to the database and would need to be in league with them.

Your best bet is to ring the company with the microchip data. When you got the dog chipped, you should have received a tag which contained the microchip number and the phone number for the company, probably pet trace.

They can confirm the owner's details on that chip so you can ascertain whether or not the details actually were changed, or if the dog simply escaped and the vet tried to cover it up.

goat2

since someone is questioning the validity of this story, it make me question why a vet would put his good name and earnings in danger, all for a dog, when he could well afford to buy dog like it in the first place,
and since you say it is a small enough community, i guess the dogs on the streets know by now.
it sounds far fetched to be true.
why would the vet keep a dog from five miles down the road, he would have known that this would happen,
or is the one who went to you for help telling the truth, maybe he forgot that he promised the dog to the vet

Dusty87

Ok, you said its a close knit community. I know what thats like.
Still if someone i trusted and knew well fcuked me over id be livid. Especially if it was one of my dogs. Gaurds wont get involved?? Well thats what the gaurda ombudsman was set up for!!!!!! Im not one to go to the gaurds but if my vet, who i am a good customer, even go so far as sayin a bit of a friend, fcuked me over i would be livid!!! The thoughts of that happening to me makes me sick.

Feargal as Luimneach

goat2 wrote: »

since someone is questioning the validity of this story, it make me question why a vet would put his good name and earnings in danger, all for a dog, when he could well afford to buy dog like it in the first place,
and since you say it is a small enough community, i guess the dogs on the streets know by now.
it sounds far fetched to be true.
why would the vet keep a dog from five miles down the road, he would have known that this would happen,
or is the one who went to you for help telling the truth, maybe he forgot that he promised the dog to the vet

Since you can't advertise your practice when working as a vet, one has to rely on word of mouth. Stealing a dog, changing the microchip ownership details etc would ruin a practice. There are alot easier ways for a vet to make money. You wouldn't do it full stop. It makes no sense, no financial sense.

CreedonsDogDayc

How well was the dog initially treated?

Perhaps the vet thought that the original dog owner was not treating the dog properly, and instead of having it out with the man, he decided to keep him instead?

If it is such a close community he would nt want to fall out with his neighbours by telling him he is a bad owner.

Also, if the man was back and forth to the vet with the dog, maybe the reason for the numerous visits is part of why the vet took him?

MsFifers

I don't understand why the vets council say they can't do anything, as you report. There is a clear procedure for registering a complaing of professional misconduct on their website (www.vci.ie). They say this procedure usually takes 4 months - so how could they have come back with an instant response as you have said? Did your neighbour make an official complaint? If not, why not?

There are some strange aspects to this story. Not to doubt the OP, but maybe you are only getting part of the story from your neighbour?

Plek Trum

I just want to know what did the vet say?

I cannot comprehend if this is true why the vetinary council have not advised action or opinion. I am tempted to ring them myself and ask...

Failing all, get onto Joe Duffy...

Dusty87

And a, very good afternoon to you:p

fred funk }{

Any updates OP?

Wild_Dogger

andreac wrote: »

I dont get it?? ...
Just wondering what this has to do with you though? Its your neighbours dog and his issue, nothing to do with you so i suggest you stay out of it

Help the aged ........

Sounds like the dog escaped from the vets , and being a prize dog would have had a whooper compo payout .

So rather than pay out , they sized up the old man and thought they could rinse him out with an urn of ashes and a fake bill .

So glad the Old man got his companion back , and so glad the dog got his companion back .

Also will be glad when the greedy vet gets busted .

goat2

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Help the aged ........

Sounds like the dog escaped from the vets , and being a prize dog would have had a whooper compo payout .

So rather than pay out , they sized up the old man and thought they could rinse him out with an urn of ashes and a fake bill .

So glad the Old man got his companion back , and so glad the dog got his companion back .

Also will be glad when the greedy vet gets busted .

i find this so disturbing
as i have great faith in my vet

thebullkf

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Any updates OP?

bear with me as there are a few issues to deal with..

goat2 wrote: »

since someone is questioning the validity of this story, it make me question why a vet would put his good name and earnings in danger, all for a dog, when he could well afford to buy dog like it in the first place,
and since you say it is a small enough community, i guess the dogs on the streets know by now.
it sounds far fetched to be true.
why would the vet keep a dog from five miles down the road, he would have known that this would happen,
or is the one who went to you for help telling the truth, maybe he forgot that he promised the dog to the vet

why do people do the things they do?

i worked with a guy who stole his lunch every day in local shop..

why?

who knows...maybe its as simple as ...cos he could.

maybe its become natural for him ..
i can only guess, and my guess is he's been getting away witrh it so long he's become careless .

Dusty87 wrote: »

Ok, you said its a close knit community. I know what thats like.
Still if someone i trusted and knew well fcuked me over id be livid. Especially if it was one of my dogs. Gaurds wont get involved?? Well thats what the gaurda ombudsman was set up for!!!!!! Im not one to go to the gaurds but if my vet, who i am a good customer, even go so far as sayin a bit of a friend, fcuked me over i would be livid!!! The thoughts of that happening to me makes me sick.

+1.

i agree.Guards have said it doesn't constitute fraud.--{rather a mix up}
as one put it.. ".. sure its only a dog..."

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

How well was the dog initially treated?

Perhaps the vet thought that the original dog owner was not treating the dog properly, and instead of having it out with the man, he decided to keep him instead?

If it is such a close community he would nt want to fall out with his neighbours by telling him he is a bad owner.

Also, if the man was back and forth to the vet with the dog, maybe the reason for the numerous visits is part of why the vet took him?[/QUOTE]

some nice theory but alas,its untrue...

dog was initially treated very well.Never had a prob;em before,dog was never ill afaik,rather he was checked out @ owners request and cost, on a regular basis.

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Since you can't advertise your practice when working as a vet, one has to rely on word of mouth. Stealing a dog, changing the microchip ownership details etc would ruin a practice. There are alot easier ways for a vet to make money. You wouldn't do it full stop. It makes no sense, no financial sense.

again +1... i agree.totally.

{out and out brazen skullduggery springs to mind though.;)}

Plek Trum wrote: »

I just want to know what did the vet say?
I cannot comprehend if this is true why the vetinary council have not advised action or opinion. I am tempted to ring them myself and ask...
Failing all, get onto Joe Duffy...

ring away,i'm sure they'll confirm (if allowed) my story.
Vet apologised,refunded the cost back onto the CC.
i can't reveal all online here but suffice to say the VCI are aware of
thesituation but unable/unwilling to act.

MsFifers wrote: »

I don't understand why the vets council say they can't do anything, as you report. There is a clear procedure for registering a complaing of professional misconduct on their website (www.vci.ie). They say this procedure usually takes 4 months - so how could they have come back with an instant response as you have said? Did your neighbour make an official complaint? If not, why not?

There are some strange aspects to this story. Not to doubt the OP, but maybe you are only getting part of the story from your neighbour?

answer was verbal,then confirmed in writing.
4 months....:eek:


TO ALL....


there are strange aspects to this story because of me,same goes for some inconsistency's in the story,its been deliberately altered to protect/avoid complications later on.
my apologies if its caused confusion.The initial reason i started this was to
pick the brain of a Vet,garner some advice.....tell the VET the whole story...

whilst no doubt there are Vet's using Boards.ie none have contacted me.Neither has anyone that works directly in Vets...
I find that strange.

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Help the aged ........

Sounds like the dog escaped from the vets , and being a prize dog would have had a whooper compo payout .

So rather than pay out , they sized up the old man and thought they could rinse him out with an urn of ashes and a fake bill .

So glad the Old man got his companion back , and so glad the dog got his companion back .

Also will be glad when the greedy vet gets busted .

Excellent post,

goat2 wrote: »

i find this so disturbing
as i have great faith in my vet

this is the crux of the matter....
i went into a different vets and told em the story....said it was terrible,inform the VCI...but smiled ruefully when i told them i already had...in fact the nurse there saidit'd be a wate of money fighting this incourt.:eek:this is why i feel transparency is required.
out of all the posters on here,someone must work in a vets....yet none have posted to say they do.... nor have they PM'd me....

in closing i must say i've lost faith in people
sincethis began.....2 vets,2 Guards,the VCI.....all reported to....

but , the results are the same.

Discodog

Vets, Lawyers, Doctors etc. You will have big problems getting a professional to criticise another in the same profession. It is still an old boys network. I am not surprised that no Vets have PM'd you. If it is any consultation my Vet has read this thread & was not that surprised. The comment was made that Vets are human & humans do stupid things sometimes.

Miss Lockhart

As I said in my previous post, I have made a few complaints to the VCI and I found them extremely professional. They followed the complaints procedure to the letter.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that they would:

a) tell you verbally that there was nothing they could do.
b) fail to carry out the preliminary investigations which they are obliged to do - and this can indeed take several weeks/months.


This does not add up.

As I already suggested, if this is truly what happened, then contact the Department of Agriculture to take it further.

kopfan77

thebullkf wrote: »

bear with me as there are a few issues to deal with..









why do people do the things they do?

i worked with a guy who stole his lunch every day in local shop..

why?

who knows...maybe its as simple as ...cos he could.

maybe its become natural for him ..
i can only guess, and my guess is he's been getting away witrh it so long he's become careless .




+1.

i agree.Guards have said it doesn't constitute fraud.--{rather a mix up}
as one put it.. ".. sure its only a dog..."

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

How well was the dog initially treated?

Perhaps the vet thought that the original dog owner was not treating the dog properly, and instead of having it out with the man, he decided to keep him instead?

If it is such a close community he would nt want to fall out with his neighbours by telling him he is a bad owner.

Also, if the man was back and forth to the vet with the dog, maybe the reason for the numerous visits is part of why the vet took him?[/QUOTE]

some nice theory but alas,its untrue...

dog was initially treated very well.Never had a prob;em before,dog was never ill afaik,rather he was checked out @ owners request and cost, on a regular basis.




again +1... i agree.totally.

{out and out brazen skullduggery springs to mind though.;)}




ring away,i'm sure they'll confirm (if allowed) my story.
Vet apologised,refunded the cost back onto the CC.
i can't reveal all online here but suffice to say the VCI are aware of
thesituation but unable/unwilling to act.







answer was verbal,then confirmed in writing.
4 months....:eek:


TO ALL....


there are strange aspects to this story because of me,same goes for some inconsistency's in the story,its been deliberately altered to protect/avoid complications later on.
my apologies if its caused confusion.The initial reason i started this was to
pick the brain of a Vet,garner some advice.....tell the VET the whole story...

whilst no doubt there are Vet's using Boards.ie none have contacted me.Neither has anyone that works directly in Vets...
I find that strange.



Excellent post,








this is the crux of the matter....
i went into a different vets and told em the story....said it was terrible,inform the VCI...but smiled ruefully when i told them i already had...in fact the nurse there saidit'd be a wate of money fighting this incourt.:eek:this is why i feel transparency is required.
out of all the posters on here,someone must work in a vets....yet none have posted to say they do.... nor have they PM'd me....

in closing i must say i've lost faith in people
sincethis began.....2 vets,2 Guards,the VCI.....all reported to....

but , the results are the same.

Sounds like the options are running out....this is where Id be seriously considering going to the press if all of the above are washing their hands of it

Feargal as Luimneach

Discodog wrote: »

Vets, Lawyers, Doctors etc. You will have big problems getting a professional to criticise another in the same profession. It is still an old boys network. I am not surprised that no Vets have PM'd you. If it is any consultation my Vet has read this thread & was not that surprised. The comment was made that Vets are human & humans do stupid things sometimes.

People don't like being informers in this country and people don't like informers especially if it's your fellow work colleague...

Orla K

If I was a vet or worked in a vet pratice I'd be a bit concerned about how much involvement you want from them, for instance if it ended up going to court and you asked to say things like x,y andz shouldn't happen the normal pratice is ... nothing wrong with it but for a person hearing all of the case from just one side, it would make me feel uneasy.

Perhaps giving a full explication to why you want to be pmed

If I was a vet I wouldn't want to pm you at the moment, not because I didn't want to rat out a colleague or because of some old boys network, Id just be worried that I would end up being held accountable for what was said, and to what end a you would use the information provided.

thebullkf

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

As I said in my previous post, I have made a few complaints to the VCI and I found them extremely professional. They followed the complaints procedure to the letter.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that they would:

a) tell you verbally that there was nothing they could do.
b) fail to carry out the preliminary investigations which they are obliged to do - and this can indeed take several weeks/months.


This does not add up.

As I already suggested, if this is truly what happened, then contact the Department of Agriculture to take it further.

so you find it difficult to believe, i assure you its the truth.
yet you correctly state:it doesn't add up.

it is the truth.

DOA ??