Help: Fraud by the Vet- the guards be involved/solicitor?

thebullkf

Hi,

Any Vets on Boards?....please PM if you are.;)

i have a pretty serious issue regarding a neighbours dog.
He {the owner} has asked me for advice regarding his prized {blank}.
i think its best if i keep the breed anon. because this might go the legal route.
the reason i'm posting this here is to gauge reaction,garner advice,make an informed decision and basically see if anyone else has a similar experience.
....
ok,

basically the old guy has a very valuable dog, full breed,champion in his class etc.
now-apparently the dog was very sick recently and was brought to his local vet...

vet said to leave him there overnight.
fair enough you'd think.
not so......vet rang next morning and said the dog had died during the night.....havingh eaten something that poisoned him.
and had to be cremated.
as you can imagine,the owner was distraught,tbh he was inconsolable.
he went to the vets and was handed an Urn, and a bill!
this is the disturbing part......
the owner was in his front garden the other day and lo and behold
HIS DOG RAN INTO HIS GARDEN....
the old man couldn't believe it,,,,had been praying ever since his death.
is delighted to have him back but the vet lied to him,charged him,and IMHO
deserves to be struck off,reported,fined etc
..
can anyone help/ advise please..
i am so fcukin angry right now:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

what can i do?
thanks

seamus

Tell him to get down the Gardai and file a report and then go to his solicitor.

teacherspet

That is so unbelievable, it has to be true

steel_spine

...I...I have no words except WHAT THE F*CK?!

MsFifers

Wow! Can't believe that.

The Veterinary Council of Ireland have a complaints procedure if someone has a complaint about a vet:

http://www.vci.ie/Disciplinary/

Your friend should get legal advice I'd think - but legal action is costly so maybe they won't want to go down that route.

Orla K

It may just be a case of getting two similar type dogs paper work mixed up. I wouldn't go calling it fraud yet.

You could go to the veterinary council of Ireland(they've a website) and see what info they give.

Has anyone gone back to the vet to see what they've to say about it?

andreac

I dont get it?? Are you saying that the vet said he had the dog pts when he actually didnt??

For starters, vets dont cremate at their premises, the bodies have to be sent off to be done and it takes about 2 weeks or so to get them back then from the Crematorium so he couldnt have just handed him abck an Urn the next day, its not possible.

Just wondering what this has to do with you though? Its your neighbours dog and his issue, nothing to do with you so i suggest you stay out of its as its really none of your business by sounds of it.

Wisco

Well if dog was cremated, it wouldn't be back for few days/weeks as the bodies are sent away to a crematorium. So right away that would indicate fraud to me if he was handed a box of ashes right away.
My advice is to inform the gardai. Or confront the vet practice involved and they may own up and refund the money, although understandably you may be more upset about the fraud aspect than the money.

thebullkf

Hi Folks,
thanks for the comments.

will try and address each one:

seamus wrote: »

Tell him to get down the Gardai and file a report and then go to his solicitor.

that advice was offered,believe me.;)

MsFifers wrote: »

Wow! Can't believe that.

The Veterinary Council of Ireland have a complaints procedure if someone has a complaint about a vet:

http://www.vci.ie/Disciplinary/

Your friend should get legal advice I'd think - but legal action is costly so maybe they won't want to go down that route.

cheers msFifers,VCI have been informed and allegedly are powerless.

Orla K wrote: »

It may just be a case of getting two similar type dogs paper work mixed up. I wouldn't go calling it fraud yet.?

i wish Orla.....though in fairness that was my initial thought.
turnedout i was wrong.

andreac wrote: »

I dont get it?? Are you saying that the vet said he had the dog pts when he actually didnt??............Just wondering what this has to do with you though? Its your neighbours dog and his issue, nothing to do with you so i suggest you stay out of its as its really none of your business by sounds of it.

thats correct.Vet said the dog died.when it didn't.
confused as to why i should stay out of it?

would you just ignore what happened..and 'stay out of it'

Wisco wrote: »

...... you may be more upset about the fraud aspect than the money.

thats also correct.its particularly galling as this "vet" has been getting good money on a more than regular basis.-the dog is checked out quarterly @ god knows how much.
I mean how can this fiend be trusted???

very very upset here.
I have to say i don't think i'd be responsiblefor my actions were it my dog.
I consider dogs as an extension of the family.

there is other stuff i fear of mentioning in case this online discussion were ever used in evidence....

...I mean the fcukin neck!!!:mad:

Lizard Queen

well firstly if the dog is a full breed and champion it would be mirco-chipped so i would check to see if the dog that turned up is mirco-chipped and if the numbers match

The vet council should deal with this matter, but if the dog was euthanised the owner would of had to given written or oral consent and that is classed as a legal document

And the creamation does take 2 weeks but a post mortum should of been carried out due to the sudden death and any vet who was good would of advised it could you please pm the vets there are many messers out there thanks

morganafay

Do you think the vet wanted to steal the dog to sell it or that they lost it?

andreac

thebullkf wrote: »

Hi Folks,









thats correct.Vet said the dog died.when it didn't.
confused as to why i should stay out of it?

would you just ignore what happened..and 'stay out of it'





there is other stuff i fear of mentioning in case this online discussion were ever used in evidence....

...I mean the fcukin neck!!!:mad:

The reason i said stay out of it is it your dog? You said its your neighbours dog not yours so its really none of your business, thats what i meant.

andreac

Sorry, just realised you said in your original post that he asked you for advice:o

Firstly as others have said, he the vet should have consulted with the owner if it had to be pts.
And as i stated, the body would be sent off for cremation as it takes a few weeks to come back as vets dont have facilities do cremate on site, so that in itself is a clue too that it wasnt his dog.
Im also curious as to how the dog came back though?? Does the man live close to the vets, just seems very strange that the dog made its way back to the owner if it had been in the vets.

Plek Trum

Engage a solicitor immediately.
Keep the urn, the receipt for payments and any other documented proof you may have.

Do not contact the vets yet - they will have time to remove documents / alter their appointment book etc IF they have anything to cover up.

Move IMMEDIATELY. Your neighbour is owed at the least an explaination as to this very suspicious situation asnd refund for what he paid. I would be surprised if the Vetinary Council don't feel this is irregular, but they can't / will not do anything unless legally requested to.

Absolutely shocking care at least and that's worrying enough. I doubt the vet wanted to keep him as pedigree dogs are well known and identifiable, essentially useless without their papers unless wanted for breeding and even then I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to list the pups lineage from a 'dead' dog. More likely that the dog escaped for some reason (extremely careless of the surgery) and they panicked. To concoct such an elaborate story though from a supposed professional screams of misconduct.

Please let us know how this pans out....

Plek Trum

Veterinary Council

Complaints procedure here:
http://www.vci.ie/Disciplinary/Documents/


Form to be completed for disciplinary inquiry / investigation:

http://www.vci.ie/Documents/Disciplinary/Complaint%20Form%2014.2.10.pdf

Please let is know how this proceeds...

ISDW

What was the vets response when your neighbour told him about his dog rising from the dead?

ISDW

Sorry, wanted to edit my last post, but obviously couldn't as it hasn't been moderated yet.

When you get a dog's ashes from the vets there is a receipt in there from the crematorium, as vets don't do this themselves. What did the receipt say? The contact details will be on it for the company that did it, there aren't many in Ireland, so would be easy to get hold of them. I'd suggest phoning them and finding out when the dog was cremated and exactly what breed of dog it was, because whatever has happened, a dog has been cremated, maybe there is another owner out there wondering where their dog is? My dogs' ashes have come back with their name on the casket, and their details, and a little bit of their fur.

Discodog

I would get absolute confirmation & then go to the tabloid press.

The Sweeper

morganafay wrote: »

Do you think the vet wanted to steal the dog to sell it or that they lost it?

I think this is worth reiterating. Instead of some machiavellian plot to sell the dog onwards (and think about it - the dog would be worthless because the breeding line couldn't be continued due to the dog's stolen nature), the vet practice could conceivably have lost him - let him out, or had him escape. They may have come in one morning to discover someone else had been in their practice and stolen dogs.

In a blind panic they may have lied through their teeth, thinking the dog was gone for good but not wanting to admit they'd been robbed, or been careless enough to lose a dog. The loss thing would tie in with him trotting happily home. Yes, of course it's still totally outrageous that they'd tell such a pack of stinking lies, but it may not be the case that they essentially 'stole' the dog.

thebullkf

hi folks,

thanks for the replies/comments but its a little frustrating having to wait for your comments to be pre-modded {i understand the reason for it though:)}
i have sent a few pm's out, and hopefully we'll all be hearing about this in the public domain very shortly.
its a shame a vet hasn't pm'd me as i'd really like to pick their brain on this one.

thanks again
.if i can @ some stage, i will explain all here....;)

sassychick

I really cant believe this has happened...i would get concrete evidence and name this fraudster!!!please let us know how this goes:eek:

Graces7

As the Vet's complaint section is run by.... vets.. of course it is useless.. Kick one and they all limp, same as other professional groups.

LostCovey

thebullkf wrote: »

Hi,

Any Vets on Boards?....please PM if you are.;)

i have a pretty serious issue regarding a neighbours dog.
He {the owner} has asked me for advice regarding his prized {blank}.
i think its best if i keep the breed anon. because this might go the legal route.
the reason i'm posting this here is to gauge reaction,garner advice,make an informed decision and basically see if anyone else has a similar experience.
....
ok,

basically the old guy has a very valuable dog, full breed,champion in his class etc.
now-apparently the dog was very sick recently and was brought to his local vet...

vet said to leave him there overnight.
fair enough you'd think.
not so......vet rang next morning and said the dog had died during the night.....havingh eaten something that poisoned him.
and had to be cremated.
as you can imagine,the owner was distraught,tbh he was inconsolable.
he went to the vets and was handed an Urn, and a bill!
this is the disturbing part......
the owner was in his front garden the other day and lo and behold
HIS DOG RAN INTO HIS GARDEN....
the old man couldn't believe it,,,,had been praying ever since his death.
is delighted to have him back but the vet lied to him,charged him,and IMHO
deserves to be struck off,reported,fined etc
..
can anyone help/ advise please..
i am so fcukin angry right now:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

what can i do?
thanks

Hi,

This is shocking if true, but there is a very similar urban myth doing the rounds. I am taking you at face value, and believing the story as related here.

Please do not go near the tabloids yet, because the publicity might undermine the possibility of a criminal trial

Start with the Veterinary Council formal - formal complaint. Registered post, and send a detailed but unemotional letter, with as many dates, times and names as you can muster. Names of any witnesses, (even if employed by the "defendant". Send it while you are still cross, otherwise it will go on the long finger.

You also have the basis of a report to the Gardai for criminal fraud.

To others, don't be so certain about the whole pet incineration trade. There are good legal registered operations, illegal operators, and staright fakes out there.

LC

morganafay

The Sweeper wrote: »

I think this is worth reiterating. Instead of some machiavellian plot to sell the dog onwards (and think about it - the dog would be worthless because the breeding line couldn't be continued due to the dog's stolen nature), the vet practice could conceivably have lost him - let him out, or had him escape. They may have come in one morning to discover someone else had been in their practice and stolen dogs.

In a blind panic they may have lied through their teeth, thinking the dog was gone for good but not wanting to admit they'd been robbed, or been careless enough to lose a dog. The loss thing would tie in with him trotting happily home. Yes, of course it's still totally outrageous that they'd tell such a pack of stinking lies, but it may not be the case that they essentially 'stole' the dog.

Yeah, and if they stole the dog, there'd be a chance that they'd get sued, so I don't think they'd really do that. And vets make a lot of money, so can't imagine they stole it.

They probably lost it somehow and didn't want to admit it. They really should have come clean and offered to pay for the dog and to help try to find it.

AvaKinder

Can I ask for a PM with the name or area that this vet is in? Would be afraid to send my dog there!

Feargal as Luimneach

morganafay wrote: »

Yeah, and if they stole the dog, there'd be a chance that they'd get sued, so I don't think they'd really do that. And vets make a lot of money, so can't imagine they stole it.

They probably lost it somehow and didn't want to admit it. They really should have come clean and offered to pay for the dog and to help try to find it.

Most Vets don't earn alot of money:mad: (For the amount of hours of work/on call/grief that they get).
They didn't steal the dog! Why would they? Dogs going missing would seriously do damage to the reputation of a practice.

I'd say, most likely, the dog was stolen and the vet panicked. What breed of dog was stolen? A small breed dog would be easier to steal i'd say.

I won't tell the tabloids about this. They would most likely shaft the entire veterinary profession. Tar everybody with the same brush.

morganafay

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Most Vets don't earn alot of money:mad: (For the amount of hours of work/on call/grief that they get).
They didn't steal the dog! Why would they? Dogs going missing would seriously do damage to the reputation of a practice.

I'd say, most likely, the dog was stolen and the vet panicked. What breed of dog was stolen? A small breed dog would be easier to steal i'd say.

I won't tell the tabloids about this. They would most likely shaft the entire veterinary profession. Tar everybody with the same brush.

Vets I know make ALOT of money . . . though they work really hard, so I'm not saying they don't deserve it. I wouldn't do it . . . I guess all vets don't earn a lot of money. But lots definitely do.

Yeah it could have been stolen by someone else. Like I said, I really doubt the vet would steal it because they could get sued or something. Either way, the vet was in the wrong.

Discodog

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Most Vets don't earn alot of money:mad: (For the amount of hours of work/on call/grief that they get).
They didn't steal the dog! Why would they? Dogs going missing would seriously do damage to the reputation of a practice.

I'd say, most likely, the dog was stolen and the vet panicked. What breed of dog was stolen? A small breed dog would be easier to steal i'd say.

I won't tell the tabloids about this. They would most likely shaft the entire veterinary profession. Tar everybody with the same brush.

Some Vet practices make a lot of money. The veterinary profession will be in the spotlight after tonight's BBC Panorama program. The problem is that I would not expect the Guards or the VC to do anything. So it may be that the only choice is publicity or forget about it.

thebullkf

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi,

This is shocking if true, but there is a very similar urban myth doing the rounds. I am taking you at face value, and believing the story as related here.

Please do not go near the tabloids yet, because the publicity might undermine the possibility of a criminal trial

Start with the Veterinary Council formal - formal complaint. Registered post, and send a detailed but unemotional letter, with as many dates, times and names as you can muster. Names of any witnesses, (even if employed by the "defendant". Send it while you are still cross, otherwise it will go on the long finger.

You also have the basis of a report to the Gardai for criminal fraud.

To others, don't be so certain about the whole pet incineration trade. There are good legal registered operations, illegal operators, and staright fakes out there.

LC

trust me its true;)

i have two dogs myself, i'd love to .... that vet (insert expletive).

Vets council said there's nothing they can do.

dog's chip was changed also......


:mad:

'there is so much more to this story its unreal...suffice to sday the vets practice on the east coast of Ireland....

Miss Lockhart

How long was the dog missing?

Was a complaint made in writing to the VCI? How long did they consider it before they said they couldn't do anything? They are obliged to carry out at least preliminary investigations before deciding whether to take it further.

I find it very hard to believe they just said they couldn't do anything. I have made a few complaints to the VCI and they have always taken them extremely seriously - and they were for problems which were less serious than what you describe.

If you have indeed followed the complaints procedure and have really just been told they "can't do anything" then you should contact the Department of Agriculture to take it further.

Does the dog have scarring from the removal of its original microchip?

morganafay

The dog's chip was changed? I didn't even know they could do that . . .