The Bertie Ahern defense, now used by Ireland's top criminals

RATM

Had to laugh at this. Bertie's defence that he won that unaccounted sterling 'on a horse' has now been used by none other than John Gilligan at the High Court yesterday.

CAB are in the process of finally seizing his properties, from here http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/gilligans-in-final-battle-to-win-back-seized-properties-2253367.html


On the Gilligan family:

Their son, Darren, a former drug addict, gave evidence that he had received a payout of €15,200 when he reached 18 as a result of a personal injuries claim.

He gave the entire sum to his father, asking him to "invest it". Some time later, his father said he had a good tip for a horse and asked did he want him to put €3,000 of his personal injuries money on it.

"I told him to keep gambling and maybe out of the winnings I could buy a house," said Mr Gilligan.

"At the end of the week he'd built up €56,000 from the original €3,000."

He went on to buy a house in Lucan which was in his and Gilligan's name. He said this was because Gilligan feared his son's drug addiction would lead him to sell the house.

"I've worked since I was 15," he said. "I used to chop logs, I was always doing something.

"Anything I had, the CAB lady has it," he said, referring to one of the CAB officers in court.

He claimed he could not remember many of the large financial transactions on his account -- or the names of the horses that won him the €56,000 -- because he was on drugs.

opinion guy

Thread title confuses me .....Bertie is not a criminal ?????


Edit: since all y'all seem to be suffering from a sarcasm deficiency. I mean he is a criminal so the distinction in the title between Bertie and criminals is redundant. For shame that people no longer understand sarcasm in the absence of smiley faces.

Rabies

opinion guy wrote: »

Thread title confuses me .....Bertie is not a criminal ?????

In the mind of an AH poster he is the spawn of Twink and Osama Bin Laden

gerrycollins

i think Bertie "borrowed" that excuse from John Gilligan

mikemac

Other way around OP!

John Gilligan was using this excuse long before Bertie ever did
No fan of Paul Williams but it's all detailed in these books

caseyann

Bertie would be one of our top criminals worked for him so why not Gilligan:D

I have to go to the track now

steddyeddy

opinion guy wrote: »

Thread title confuses me .....Bertie is not a criminal ?????

well he worked under a criminal like charles haughey so chances are he picked up a thing or two from him.

caseyann

steddyeddy wrote: »

well he worked under a criminal like charles haughey so chances are he picked up a thing or two from him.

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

plein de force

the money was just resting in his account

opinion guy

caseyann wrote: »

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

This is the same Haughey that stole money from his friend and colleague's cancer treatment fund ?

Yeah top bloke.....:rolleyes:

Elevator

this is old news in the criminal world really, sure gambling has been a favourite passtime of the criminal underworld for a long long time so why not try say your illgotten gains came from a good gamble

steddyeddy

opinion guy wrote: »

This is the same Haughey that stole money from his friend and colleague's cancer treatment fund ?

Yeah top bloke.....:rolleyes:

The man was a saint, ah he loved that old money once he had it he had a great time!

rossie1977

caseyann wrote: »

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

....

steddyeddy

caseyann wrote: »

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

Define gent?

Fozzie Bear

feelingstressed wrote: »

Other way around OP!

John Gilligan was using this excuse long before Bertie ever did
No fan of Paul Williams but it's all detailed in these books

Ya we were talking about this in work at the time Bertie used it. There were some pikeys/travellers up in court here in Galway a week or two before hand. I forget what it was for exactly but they used the excuse that they had gotten their unaccountable wealth from horse racing wins!

It was some comparison, the absolute dregs of society, the lowest of the low who had gotten a huge amount of money from illegal actions, and underhand dealings using the same excuse as those travellers:pac:

He has gotten away with it too (so far) not unlike the pikeys...

Fozzie Bear

caseyann wrote: »

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

Hmmm, out for the weekend are we Ann?

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Thread title confuses me .....Bertie is not a criminal ?????

Ok I don't get it. First response....populist sarcastic retort..... this should have gotten me at least 15 thanks by now ..... What has happened to you After Hours ?????

Kiwi_knock

opinion guy wrote: »

Ok I don't get it. First response....populist sarcastic retort..... this should have gotten me at least 15 thanks by now ..... What has happened to you After Hours ?????

You attempted to defend Bertie, there was your first mistake

mfceiling

steddyeddy wrote: »

Define gent?

You know...gent.........meaning "to advise those around you to tighten their purse strings while you drink fine champagne and wear expensive hand made shirts"

ejmaztec

caseyann wrote: »

Haughty was a great man.:mad: and more of a gent and decent politican then the ****s we have now.

That word starts with "C" and the second letter is "u". Apart from those errors, your description is spot on.

steddyeddy

mfceiling wrote: »

You know...gent.........meaning "to advise those around you to tighten their purse strings while you drink fine champagne and wear expensive hand made shirts"

Well then what a f*cking gent he was!

ejmaztec

Gilligan seems to be so sh1t hot at pulling vast wads of money out of his arse, perhaps he should be pardoned and given Lenihan's job. No more deficits.

bleg

If Chewbacca won his money on a horse then you must acquit.

opinion guy

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

You attempted to defend Bertie, there was your first mistake

What ? No I was implying he was there was no difference between Bertie and 'Ireland's Top criminals'.


Edit: by the way - what is a 'top' criminal ? The one with the most material goods, the one with the most convictions, the one with the most gangsta's in his gang ? Is there an awards ceremony ? Does Bertie guest present the ceremony ?

steddyeddy

bleg wrote: »

If Chewbacca won his money on a horse then you must acquit.

ah the chewbacca defense

ejmaztec

The "I won it on the horses" is the first line of defence in tax investigations as well. It's the most unoriginal bollocks of an excuse since the first horse race thousands of years ago.

The Aussie

opinion guy wrote: »

This is the same Haughey that stole money from his friend and colleague's cancer treatment fund ?

Yeah top bloke.....:rolleyes:

Ha he sounds like a real gent, if gent is short for genatalia that is...

caseyann

opinion guy wrote: »

This is the same Haughey that stole money from his friend and colleague's cancer treatment fund ?

Yeah top bloke.....:rolleyes:

Haughey became Minister for Justice in the early 1960s and his achievements in the post were widely praised. These achievements included the introduction of the Succession Act, which protected the inheritance rights of wives. He effectively abolished the death penalty in 1963. Haughey introduced the Succession Bill in 1964 which removed discrimination against women in inheritance rights. As Minister for Finance he introduced free electricity and free transport for old age pensioners.
Charlie Haughey appointed Máire Geoghegan Quinn to his cabinet, the first woman cabinet minister since Constance Markievicz. He co-established the Anglo-Irish framework to explore the totality of relationships between Ireland and Britain. Charlie Haughey was a patron of the arts, establishing Aosdána, giving tax exemptions to creative writers and artists, and removing VAT from books.
He established the Irish Financial Services Centre (IFSC); saved Temple Bar and turned it into a tourist and cultural quarter and set up the National Treasury Management Agency. In 1990 under his leadership Ireland enjoyed a very successful European Presidency at the time of German re-unification. Haughey opened the new Government Buildings in 1991. Under Charlie Haughey’s leadership, Fianna Fáil entered coalition government for the first time with the Progressive Democrats in 1989.
Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

steddyeddy

caseyann wrote: »

Haughey became Minister for Justice in the early 1960s and his achievements in the post were widely praised. These achievements included the introduction of the Succession Act, which protected the inheritance rights of wives. He effectively abolished the death penalty in 1963. Haughey introduced the Succession Bill in 1964 which removed discrimination against women in inheritance rights. As Minister for Finance he introduced free electricity and free transport for old age pensioners.
Charlie Haughey appointed Máire Geoghegan Quinn to his cabinet, the first woman cabinet minister since Constance Markievicz. He co-established the Anglo-Irish framework to explore the totality of relationships between Ireland and Britain. Charlie Haughey was a patron of the arts, establishing Aosdána, giving tax exemptions to creative writers and artists, and removing VAT from books.
He established the Irish Financial Services Centre (IFSC); saved Temple Bar and turned it into a tourist and cultural quarter and set up the National Treasury Management Agency. In 1990 under his leadership Ireland enjoyed a very successful European Presidency at the time of German re-unification. Haughey opened the new Government Buildings in 1991. Under Charlie Haughey’s leadership, Fianna Fáil entered coalition government for the first time with the Progressive Democrats in 1989.
Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

If you look close enough at the key areas haughey improved you can be pretty sure he had friends or financial stakes in some of those areas!

ejmaztec

caseyann wrote: »

Haughey became Minister for Justice in the early 1960s and his achievements in the post were widely praised. These achievements included the introduction of the Succession Act, which protected the inheritance rights of wives. He effectively abolished the death penalty in 1963. Haughey introduced the Succession Bill in 1964 which removed discrimination against women in inheritance rights. As Minister for Finance he introduced free electricity and free transport for old age pensioners.
Charlie Haughey appointed Máire Geoghegan Quinn to his cabinet, the first woman cabinet minister since Constance Markievicz. He co-established the Anglo-Irish framework to explore the totality of relationships between Ireland and Britain. Charlie Haughey was a patron of the arts, establishing Aosdána, giving tax exemptions to creative writers and artists, and removing VAT from books.
He established the Irish Financial Services Centre (IFSC); saved Temple Bar and turned it into a tourist and cultural quarter and set up the National Treasury Management Agency. In 1990 under his leadership Ireland enjoyed a very successful European Presidency at the time of German re-unification. Haughey opened the new Government Buildings in 1991. Under Charlie Haughey’s leadership, Fianna Fáil entered coalition government for the first time with the Progressive Democrats in 1989.
Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

As this was copy and pasted from the FF website, it doesn't tell anyone why he's burning in hell.:P

Overheal

If you're going to legalize gambling, surely you should b e keeping records of gambling transactions to verify all of this plop.

Liam Byrne

opinion guy wrote: »

What ? No I was implying he was there was no difference between Bertie and 'Ireland's Top criminals'.

That's the way I read it.....seemed pretty obvious considering I'd view him as one of them.

Caoimhín

That prick Ahers, he is a disgrace and an embarrassment.

opinion guy

ejmaztec wrote: »

As this was copy and pasted from the FF website, it doesn't tell anyone why he's burning in hell.:P

Lol. Snared. Love it.

ballsymchugh

caseyann wrote: »

Haughey became Minister for Justice in the early 1960s and his achievements in the post were widely praised. These achievements included the introduction of the Succession Act, which protected the inheritance rights of wives. He effectively abolished the death penalty in 1963. Haughey introduced the Succession Bill in 1964 which removed discrimination against women in inheritance rights. As Minister for Finance he introduced free electricity and free transport for old age pensioners.
Charlie Haughey appointed Máire Geoghegan Quinn to his cabinet, the first woman cabinet minister since Constance Markievicz. He co-established the Anglo-Irish framework to explore the totality of relationships between Ireland and Britain. Charlie Haughey was a patron of the arts, establishing Aosdána, giving tax exemptions to creative writers and artists, and removing VAT from books.
He established the Irish Financial Services Centre (IFSC); saved Temple Bar and turned it into a tourist and cultural quarter and set up the National Treasury Management Agency. In 1990 under his leadership Ireland enjoyed a very successful European Presidency at the time of German re-unification. Haughey opened the new Government Buildings in 1991. Under Charlie Haughey’s leadership, Fianna Fáil entered coalition government for the first time with the Progressive Democrats in 1989.
Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

like bertie, the most creative writer of them all.

VinnyTGM

Bertie is a great man, look at the booming country he left us, full of wealth and crime free.

If it worked for him, then anyone should get off on that excuse.

Liam Byrne

caseyann wrote: »

Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

Any chance of a non-partisan, objective summary of the con-man ?

http://ardmayle.blogspot.com/2005/07/haugheys-legacy.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/ob_cjhaughey.html

caseyann

steddyeddy wrote: »

If you look close enough at the key areas haughey improved you can be pretty sure he had friends or financial stakes in some of those areas!

Death penalty been abolished? And rights of the woman?
Right forget the key things that didnt line his pockets.He gave a damn about this country he never made the Irish suffer.Making the beginning of better relations with Britain?
Bertie and his cronies did and do.

caseyann

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Any chance of a non-partisan, objective summary of the con-man ?

http://ardmayle.blogspot.com/2005/07/haugheys-legacy.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/ob_cjhaughey.html

No one said he didnt get greedy,he didnt run the country into the ground though did he?

George Orwell 1982

Caoimhín wrote: »

That prick Ahers, he is a disgrace and an embarrassment.

Did anyone see Bertie on the programme about the PDs a few weeks back. I can't believe he is still commenting as if he is a perfectly respectable person.

George Orwell 1982

caseyann wrote: »

No one said he didnt get greedy,he didnt run the country into the ground though did he?

It was never out of the ground at that point.

George Orwell 1982

caseyann wrote: »

Haughey became Minister for Justice in the early 1960s and his achievements in the post were widely praised. These achievements included the introduction of the Succession Act, which protected the inheritance rights of wives. He effectively abolished the death penalty in 1963. Haughey introduced the Succession Bill in 1964 which removed discrimination against women in inheritance rights. As Minister for Finance he introduced free electricity and free transport for old age pensioners.
Charlie Haughey appointed Máire Geoghegan Quinn to his cabinet, the first woman cabinet minister since Constance Markievicz. He co-established the Anglo-Irish framework to explore the totality of relationships between Ireland and Britain. Charlie Haughey was a patron of the arts, establishing Aosdána, giving tax exemptions to creative writers and artists, and removing VAT from books.
He established the Irish Financial Services Centre (IFSC); saved Temple Bar and turned it into a tourist and cultural quarter and set up the National Treasury Management Agency. In 1990 under his leadership Ireland enjoyed a very successful European Presidency at the time of German re-unification. Haughey opened the new Government Buildings in 1991. Under Charlie Haughey’s leadership, Fianna Fáil entered coalition government for the first time with the Progressive Democrats in 1989.
Forgot a few things he did do for this country.:rolleyes:

He was also a corrupt power hungry bastárd.

caseyann

ejmaztec wrote: »

As this was copy and pasted from the FF website, it doesn't tell anyone why he's burning in hell.:P

I think obviously it was copied and pasted from somewhere:rolleyes: didnt say it wasnt.
He isnt buring in hell for taking money off rich people nor did he wreck the country for his own ends.

Gunsfortoys

caseyann wrote: »

I think obviously it was copied and pasted from somewhere:rolleyes: didnt say it wasnt.
He isnt buring in hell for taking money off rich people nor did he wreck the country for his own ends.

And what he did to lenihan was just him helping the country out? Get a clue.

The Aussie

George Orwell 1982 wrote: »

It was never out of the ground at that point.

Whats the term used for blokes who ride a corpse??? Charlie, charlie put that shovel down...

steddyeddy

I remember him talking about people relying on the state too much for money considering how he paid for his lifestyle thats rich.

caseyann

George Orwell 1982 wrote: »

It was never out of the ground at that point.

Give me a break he paved the way for majority of the people in this country and the celtic tiger.(the ones who came after wrecked it)He made Irelands name good internationally.

Gunsfortoys

caseyann wrote: »

Give me a break he paved the way for majority of the people in this country and the celtic tiger.(the ones who came after wrecked it)He made Irelands name good internationally.

Dodging the tough questions is fast becoming a trait of yours. I will ask again....And what he did to lenihan was just him helping the country out?

mikemac

Did work on developing the IFSC
Over 10,000 people work there, I'd consider that an achievement

It was once a run down part of the docklands
And the new social housing looks great, they are very nice houses that the residents got so they weren't hard done by if they had to move from the houses and flats

ejmaztec

caseyann wrote: »

I think obviously it was copied and pasted from somewhere:rolleyes: didnt say it wasnt.
He isnt buring in hell for taking money off rich people nor did he wreck the country for his own ends.

He didn't care where his money came from, and anything that he did do, was all done to pump up his image. It didn't cost him anything, only the tax-payer.

He lectured in shadiness around the FF circuit, and as can be seen by the mess that we're in, he was a good teacher.

George Orwell 1982

caseyann wrote: »

Give me a break he paved the way for majority of the people in this country and the celtic tiger.(the ones who came after wrecked it)He made Irelands name good internationally.

The celtic tiger came about following the coming together or a number of favourable factors and circumstances. Low corporation tax, well educated workforce with low wage rates, a boom in the US, and later low interest rates when we joined the euro. Haughey's role in all of this was what now?