Tip for Gravediggers

mike kelly

Recently a relative of mine died and was buried in Galway. At the graveside, just after the burial finished, the undertaker approached me and said that it was customary to give a 50 euro tip to the gravediggers and that if I gave the money to him, he would pass it on to them (which I did).

Has anyone else ever heard of this custom? What do you think about it? I did find it a bit distasteful but it wasn't the moment to argue.

PopeBuckfastXVI

I highly doubt this 'custom' extends back beyond January 1 2002.

padi89

It was very distasteful for the undertaker to approach you like that, picked a great time didn't they:rolleyes:. In regards to the tip yes its fairly common from my experience.

Tony Almeida

No its not custom. Jesus.

And the undertaker should have more tact than to discuss finances at the graveside

?Cee?view

Sorry for your loss.

It's definitely a custom. I'd say it happens always, but in the past Undertakers used to just add it to their bill as an outlay rather than asking for the cash at the graveside.

I'd say this incident is just a sign of the times. Undertakers are probably finding that more people are questioning bills now so they probably will only hand over the tip when they've received it rather than providing credit to the bereaved!

Best just to forget about it if you can, but such things can particularly rankle at a time of heightened emotion.

Tony Almeida

Its not a custom. My Dad's an undertaker, and i've often dug graves.

Its not a custom, and that undertaker deserves to be given no more work if thats the shenanigans he's at

fifib

are the gravediggers hired by the undertaker?
any of my families funerals the gravediggers are locals and neighbours of the deceased who have volunteered to help with digging the grave. and they are always invited to the gathering after for dinner and drinks to thank them for their hard work

?Cee?view

But in fairness, customs can differ from place to place, even within short distances.

For instance in Aran, the relatives fill the grave straight after the burial and all the people wait until the grave is filled. If that happened in Galway City, it'd probably make one of the local rags!

I know that in Rahoon Cemetery gravediggers are always tipped. I've seen hundreds of Undertakers bills (through work - my family aren't accident prone!) and many many of them list tips. I'd trust the Undertakers and wouldn't even contemplate that they're pocketing them.

?Cee?view

fifib wrote: »

are the gravediggers hired by the undertaker?
any of my families funerals the gravediggers are locals and neighbours of the deceased who have volunteered to help with digging the grave. and they are always invited to the gathering after for dinner and drinks to thank them for their hard work

In Galway City, they're City Council employees afaik.

mike kelly

Tony Almeida wrote: »

Its not a custom. My Dad's an undertaker, and i've often dug graves.

Its not a custom, and that undertaker deserves to be given no more work if thats the shenanigans he's at

thanks for your input. Nothing I can or want to do about it now but I have been wondering if this practice is widespread (from the above answers it is at least not unknown). I also have no way of knowing if he really did give the money to the gravediggers or if he perhaps asked people other than me for money also.

mike kelly

churchview wrote: »

In Galway City, they're City Council employees afaik.

yes, I think that that is the case. This burial was in Bohermore.

biko

With the crazy prices of funerals it should be included.
50 euro seems a lot. Do they even use shovels any more? I thought they moved on to mini excavators?

PopeBuckfastXVI

I think it's disgraceful to claim it's 'customary' to tip a certain amount. 50 euros could be a lot of money to some people, especially when they have just lost someone and have a tonne of other expenses. By all means tip people, but give as much or as little as you want or can, in the end of the day they are getting paid already to do a job, and it's a goddamned cheek to demand 50 euros from someone who has just been bereaved.

mike kelly

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I think it's disgraceful to claim it's 'customary' to tip a certain amount. 50 euros could be a lot of money to some people, especially when they have just lost someone and have a tonne of other expenses. By all means tip people, but give as much or as little as you want or can, in the end of the day they are getting paid already to do a job, and it's a goddamned cheek to demand 50 euros from someone who has just been bereaved.

I fully agree with you but it is not easy to refuse under the circumstances.

PopeBuckfastXVI

mike kelly wrote: »

I fully agree with you but it is not easy to refuse under the circumstances.

Yes, and that's what makes it so insidious.

dolphin city

I;ve been to plenty of funerals in Galway city where the sons of the person filled in the grave themselves. It's not an "aran" tradition and it won't make the "rag papers" because it happens all the time.

Also, never been asked or heard of anyone being asked for a tip.

?Cee?view

dolphin city wrote: »

I;ve been to plenty of funerals in Galway city where the sons of the person filled in the grave themselves. It's not an "aran" tradition and it won't make the "rag papers" because it happens all the time.

Also, never been asked or heard of anyone being asked for a tip.

It happens in Galway City graveyards owned by Galway City Council?

It is an Aran tradition. It could be an anywhere else tradition as well.

padi89

Tony Almeida wrote: »

Its not a custom. My Dad's an undertaker, and i've often dug graves.

Its not a custom, and that undertaker deserves to be given no more work if thats the shenanigans he's at

Its fairly common down these neck of the woods but obviously its different around your home place.

dilallio

It was common enough in rural Galway to tip the gravediggers - most of these were friends / neighbours of the deceased, and were not paid by the council. They often had to work in bad weather using just spades and shovels.

The gravediggers in the city are paid by the council, and afaik, all city council employees are not allowed to ask for or take 'tips' for doing their work. They also have mini-diggers for opening a grave.

It's fine if you decide yourself to tip the diggers, but an undertaker in the city should not have asked for one.

mike kelly

dilallio wrote: »

It was common enough in rural Galway to tip the gravediggers - most of these were friends / neighbours of the deceased, and were not paid by the council. They often had to work in bad weather using just spades and shovels.

The gravediggers in the city are paid by the council, and afaik, all city council employees are not allowed to ask for or take 'tips' for doing their work. They also have mini-diggers for opening a grave.

It's fine if you decide yourself to tip the diggers, but an undertaker in the city should not have asked for one.

Up until a (good) few years ago, rubbish bin collectors used to ask for a tip at Christmas time. The council put a stop to that.

soundbyte

Any funerals in the city, the gravediggers are City Council staff, out the country, its traditional to 'bury your own', and the diggers always get the few quid, same as the priest.

However, any funeral I've ever been at in Rahoon or New Cemetery, the diggers have been given a tip.

On a side note, is it 2.5x time the diggers get on a Sunday in the city?

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8919-ban-sunday-burials-save-costs

Brendog

why pay someone to dig a hole when Brian Cowen does it everytime he trys to justify unexplainable expenses

Fozzie Bear

mike kelly wrote: »

Recently a relative of mine died and was buried in Galway. At the graveside, just after the burial finished, the undertaker approached me and said that it was customary to give a 50 euro tip to the gravediggers and that if I gave the money to him, he would pass it on to them (which I did).

Has anyone else ever heard of this custom? What do you think about it? I did find it a bit distasteful but it wasn't the moment to argue.

I'm from the countryside and its the absolute norm for near neighbours to dig the grave. They usually get a few quid from the family, dinner and a pint afterwards for their troubles. The priest and alter boys/girls also get paid a few euro.

To be honest I'd go with what the undertaker said here. He has no doubt dealt with a lot of funerals and would know the in's and out's and what is custom/the norm in any one particular graveyard from another. Some may give the 3/4 grave diggers involved a tip and others may not. I highly doubt he was pocketing the 50 quid for himself. Considering what a burial costs 50 quid is small change to him.

As for the rights and wrong of when he approached you again he is an undertaker and has probably done this countless times before. If it was distasteful or otherwise or people had previously protested I doubt he would be doing it then. The funeral was over, people were standing about, I personally don't see whats wrong with the timing. Its not like he did it in the middle of mass. The funeral is over, the diggers are there and the family is about to depart. When is a good time?

There is a hell of a lot of digging involved in opening a grave and (having done it myself) I don't begrudge anyone a tenner tip for doing so.

HardyEustace

Just to clarify though - are the grave diggers in this instance getting paid and getting paid handsomely with 2.5 overtime?

padi89

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

As for the rights and wrong of when he approached you again he is an undertaker and has probably done this countless times before. If it was distasteful or otherwise or people had previously protested I doubt he would be doing it then. The funeral was over, people were standing about, I personally don't see whats wrong with the timing. Its not like he did it in the middle of mass. The funeral is over, the diggers are there and the family is about to depart. When is a good time?

When they are asked to organize the funeral, that is their job they should be professional about it and give all details and costs that's what they are paid for.
The undertaker should know better than to expect someone to fork out €50 at the drop of a hat. It's possible they forgot but FFS let people know all the costs before the funeral.

topper75

Ní maith liom do thrioblóid. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

It always struck me as a double whammy to have to cope with the grief of loss, and to simultaneously be faced with the protocol nightmare that is the Irish funeral.

I think the 'timing' is hard to improve on in such circumstances to be fair to the undertaker, but 50E seems like a hefty 'tip'. I thought a pint or two at the pub afterwards was the done thing. Things change I suppose.

soundbyte

HardyEustace wrote: »

Just to clarify though - are the grave diggers in this instance getting paid and getting paid handsomely with 2.5 overtime?

Sorry, when I said that in my earlier post, it was intended to be rhetorical.

Yes, that's what they get for a Sunday burial. They may have two burials on a Sunday, and stretch it out from 10am to 4pm.

snubbleste

Did you ask for a receipt OP and request a vat number ?

mike kelly

snubbleste wrote: »

Did you ask for a receipt OP and request a vat number ?

to paraphrase a well know Fianna Fail politician "did I fu%k"

somehow I doubt that gravediggers have vat numbers.

I would of course tip country people who helped out at a funeral, city council employees who are already getting paid by the taxpayer is another thing

cats.life

where i come from the first cousins or friends dig the grave , they wouldnt dare ask for tip out of respect of the family, they would go to the pub after and have a few scoups with the family,, im sick at reading your post after the heart ache of losing a family member , then to be confronted by this guy who had no respect for you , even if it is custom he could have waited for few days after, not at the grave. im from the west coast of galway.

inisboffin

[QUOTE=Fozzie Bear;66775314

As for the rights and wrong of when he approached you again he is an undertaker and has probably done this countless times before. If it was distasteful or otherwise or people had previously protested I doubt he would be doing it then. The funeral was over, people were standing about, I personally don't see whats wrong with the timing. Its not like he did it in the middle of mass. The funeral is over, the diggers are there and the family is about to depart. When is a good time?

.[/QUOTE

I absolutely disagree about when the asking was done. At the very least, the undertaker should have fronted the fifty to them, and included it in the bill, itemised, or gotten it off the OP later.

A tip is at best discretionary, and to suggest the actual amount *at that time* is way our of line.
It is a custom which came from unpaid rural friends of family getting a 'thank you' for their loyalty and labour.

For rural burials, absolutely no problem, the diggers were always given an 'envelope' and a few pints and dinner.

For City burials at 2.5 x regular time for Council workers, a token tip each of a fiver seems enough to satisfy 'custom'. I actually think there is a bit of taking an old custom to compensate rural friends of family, and exploiting it to apply to already-paid workers in the City.

It really p**ses me off to see people ask for 'tips' at a time of grief.

LucyBliss

We buried my grandmother in April in Bohermore cemetary and we were not approached at the graveside to tip the gravediggers. I'd have to check the bill, but I think their fee was included on that.
I don't begrudge them their fee or their tip, but I do wonder at any undertaker who feels it appropriate to ask someone after the burial for cash like that.

dolphin city

churchview wrote: »

It happens in Galway City graveyards owned by Galway City Council?

It is an Aran tradition. It could be an anywhere else tradition as well.

Ya it does happen in Rahoon and the "new" cemetary in Bohermore - its entirely up to the family if they want to do it themselves.

HardyEustace

So let me get this straight -

city council workers get 2.5 times their salary to dig the graves on a Sunday. You are charged for this through the undertaker
AND expected to give a tip?

mike kelly

HardyEustace wrote: »

So let me get this straight -

city council workers get 2.5 times their salary to dig the graves on a Sunday. You are charged for this through the undertaker
AND expected to give a tip?

that's it

mike kelly

LucyBliss wrote: »

We buried my grandmother in April in Bohermore cemetary and we were not approached at the graveside to tip the gravediggers. I'd have to check the bill, but I think their fee was included on that.
I don't begrudge them their fee or their tip, but I do wonder at any undertaker who feels it appropriate to ask someone after the burial for cash like that.

sorry for your loss. In my case my parents paid for the funeral but it was me that the undertaker approached. My parents know nothing about this and nor does anyone else.

Fozzie Bear

inisboffin wrote: »

I absolutely disagree about when the asking was done. At the very least, the undertaker should have fronted the fifty to them, and included it in the bill, itemised, or gotten it off the OP later.

You are right it probably would have been better handled this way to be honest.

inisboffin wrote: »

For City burials at 2.5 x regular time for Council workers, a token tip each of a fiver seems enough to satisfy 'custom'. I actually think there is a bit of taking an old custom to compensate rural friends of family, and exploiting it to apply to already-paid workers in the City.

Ah that puts a different spin on it. My apologies I did not realise it was council workers who were being tipped. I assumed it was neighbours/friends/volunteers doing the digging and getting the tip.

No feck them if they are already being well paid then no tip! Taking the piss completely looking for money off a family they don't even know.

Eman Resu

I know that working as an undertaker probably requires a certain level of "detachment" in order to do the job, but asking grieving family members for money in that situation is just plain wrong. Sorry to hear of your loss OP.

kippy

fifib wrote: »

are the gravediggers hired by the undertaker?
any of my families funerals the gravediggers are locals and neighbours of the deceased who have volunteered to help with digging the grave. and they are always invited to the gathering after for dinner and drinks to thank them for their hard work

Same deal at home. Not sure how it works in the cities.

If the gravediggers are already getting paid, I dont think a tip is in order to be honest. Tipping, as far as I am aware is for a higher level of service than normal. Its not that hard to get digging a grave wrong and I'd have less time for tipping those already getting paid when I know I have been to countless funerals where neighbours/distant relations have spent their own time digging graves with their own hand tools without getting any payment whatsoever, just the knowledge that they helped a family in their time of grief.

mike kelly

kippy wrote: »

Tipping, as far as I am aware is for a higher level of service than normal.

Should be the case, but in the case of council workers, if you don't tip then they can easily cause problems for you next time around.

HardyEustace

so, in other words, the undertaker is using you to pay excess money to them to make his life easier in dealing with council workers who are paid from our tax money?

who exactly pays this 2.5 times Sunday rate? Do the council charge the undertaker who in turn charges you? Or do the council do it without charging the undertaker?

kippy

mike kelly wrote: »

Should be the case, but in the case of council workers, if you don't tip then they can easily cause problems for you next time around.

I would hope there wouldnt be too many visits to the same cemetery for "next time round" but if there were I would ask some of my relations/friends to help out and I know I wouldnt be let down.

Mr.Mister

The Undertaker will be the one to have seemed to have tipped the grave diggers not you.

If it was 'custom' why doesn't the undertaker just charge a extra 50 euro in the bill and sort it himself.

civis_liberalis

My father's side of the family is quite big, so grave-digging is done by the immediate and extended family.

My mother's side isn't quite as big. Certain families tend to help each other out with it when their neighbours lose a family member. No money ever changes hands. They are always well fed and watered, and more or less treated as extended family at the wake and after the funeral.

Both sides of the family would be in rural areas, so I can't speak for anyone from town really.

mike kelly

civis_liberalis wrote: »

My father's side of the family is quite big, so grave-digging is done by the immediate and extended family.

My mother's side isn't quite as big. Certain families tend to help each other out with it when their neighbours lose a family member. No money ever changes hands. They are always well fed and watered, and more or less treated as extended family at the wake and after the funeral.

Both sides of the family would be in rural areas, so I can't speak for anyone from town really.

I think that this is just a city issue.

doubleglaze

Another aspect of this is that I note that it wasn't the funeral organisers (I assume -perhaps incorrectly - that those who were paying for the funeral were the organisers) who were approaced for the tip, but another family member. Approaching various family members in this manner at such an emotionally charged time can potentially lead to all sorts of exploitative practices/extortion of monies. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it is theoretically possible for an unscrupulous undertaker to set up business and then, at various stages of the funeral ritual, to request unnecessary fees from a multitude of funeral mourners for his own benefit or that of another party. Most of us have lived long enough to know that in every walk of life there are rogues and con-artists.

If someone were to bring this thread to the attention of Galway City Council, I think that that would bring an end to the "custom" of tipping already salaried city gravediggers.

The sorry practice would end much as the expectation of tipping the refuse collecters did some years back.

(Note that I have no issue with the tipping of unpaid gravediggers.)

Perhaps the best thing would be to bring the matter to the attention of all our Councillors.

Alternatively, if someone wanted to bring the matter to the attention of our local media...?

Mrs OBumble

doubleglaze wrote: »

...Alternatively, if someone wanted to bring the matter to the attention of our local media...?

Sure'n they'll never find it down here in boards.ie

Head The Wall

mike kelly wrote: »

Should be the case, but in the case of council workers, if you don't tip then they can easily cause problems for you next time around.

How wouold they cause trouble for you the next time. By not digging the grave properly?

These are well paid and pensioned council workers who use a mini digger, they won't break a sweat doing what is their job so they deserve no tip if you ask me.

The manner in which you were asked is disgraceful also, [modEdit]who was the undertaker?[/modEdit]

Head The Wall

Head The Wall wrote: »

How wouold they cause trouble for you the next time. By not digging the grave properly?

These are well paid and pensioned council workers who use a mini digger, they won't break a sweat doing what is their job so they deserve no tip if you ask me.

The manner in which you were asked is disgraceful also, [modEdit]who was the undertaker?[/modEdit]

I don't see why they shouldn't name them. If it actually happened and the client speaks the truth whats the problem?

Nuggles

I live in a place where your neighbours are the ones who dig your family graves.

For free!

Gotta love the country.

galwaymanc

That is absaloutely discracefull!! my father passed away a few years ago and the men who dug his grave were invited to the wake and to have a meal which was put on for close family and those who attended the funeral. Afterwards the men approached my brother and thanked him for the meal and passed his condolences. He certainly did NOT mention or hint towards money. That was an awful thing for the undertaker to say to you and if that was the case at my fathers funeral the undertaker would have ended up in the grave too , how dare he. Sorry to hear of your loss.