BMW 5 Series v 3 Series maintenance costs

sk8board

unkel wrote: »

The only person in the world that can do the official acceleration time in a BMW 520d manual, is the BMW professional test driver, where as anybody that can stamp their foot down hard on the gas pedal can do it in the auto

completely agree. just ask anyone with a 5series steptronic.

with the auto's now as cheap to tax as the manuals, it beggers belief why someone would buy a manual executive car

Anan1

sk8board wrote: »

with the auto's now as cheap to tax as the manuals, it beggers belief why someone would buy a manual executive car

Because it doesn't look as cool as an MPack?;)

You're right though, I wouldn't even consider a manual executive car.

sk8board

I'm prob going to hold on to Jan to change my old heap of junk, but a '08 520d is top of the list.

as I see it there are 3 types for sale all about 3k diff in price:

1. entry level manuals; no spec, no leather
2. great spec steptronics, with leather and sports steering
3. m-sport version man or auto

I like the look of the msport, but the family man in me says its impossible to overlook the steptronic SE over a manual msport. Plus I drive motorway every day, and would keep it for a good few years most likely

I don't even view the ad's for the entry level manuals.

romperstomper

Ihave a manual 'executive spec' 520d and my dad has the auto and I can assure you that there I a huge difffere in mpg. Iget 1200km per 70 litre tank and he barely gets 1000. Keep that in mind especially as there will be likely tax hikes on the pumps soon

Drummerboy08

Bazz, this is more or less a big part of my job, predicting maintenance costs.

The good news is that most BMW's have timing chains, which means you dont have to fork out for the expensive job of changing the belt and tensioners. They're also fairly reliable, so there should be too many "unknowns" if you get me.

The bad news is that the standard run flat tyres are often expensive to replace. I'd recommend putting a good non run flat on as they are cheaper, and can be repaired. I know BMW recommend run flats, but I know plenty of people who change the tyres.

On the 3 series, the ABS unit is a known problem. I've had to replace 3 or 4 on high milers, at a fairly serious cost. I havent seen it go on a low miler yet, but.... Also, only yesterday I replaced the steering column on a 08 318i with only 27k on the clock. BMW covered all the cost under good will as it was out of warranty, but only because its always been serviced with BMW. If it wasnt covered under warranty, it would have cost €1000.

The 5 series i've had very few problems with. I'd maybe PM ROR and Chris and see if they know of any problems with them. Running costs and general servicing wouldnt be too far ahead of the 3 series IMO.

Hope this helps.

Anan1

romperstomper wrote: »

Ihave a manual 'executive spec' 520d and my dad has the auto and I can assure you that there I a huge difffere in mpg. Iget 1200km per 70 litre tank and he barely gets 1000. Keep that in mind especially as there will be likely tax hikes on the pumps soon

That'd make sense, i'm pretty sure the gearing is lower on the automatics. Still worth every penny extra though, IMO.

romperstomper

Obviously I disagree or I wouldn't have bought it, but consider that u will pay a 5k premium on the 08s or later for the auto and u will pay an extra 20% at the pumps as long as you have the car. If money is tight, that must be a factor. And a 156pa tax car will always be worth more than the nom emissions based cars auto or not. Resale has to be a factorr or else you could save a fortune and buy a peughot. 607

Anan1

romperstomper wrote: »

Obviously I disagree or I wouldn't have bought it, but consider that u will pay a 5k premium on the 08s or later for the auto and u will pay an extra 20% at the pumps as long as you have the car. If money is tight, that must be a factor. And a 156pa tax car will always be worth more than the nom emissions based cars auto or not. Resale has to be a factorr or else you could save a fortune and buy a peughot. 607

True, but if the autos are fetching €5k more then they're holding their value better, no?

romperstomper

They are five more new but only one new aftr two years so they aren't holding their value!

sk8board

interestingly the split of auto v manual is exactly even on carzone for an '08

44 manuals and 45 Autos.

cheapest manual (non UK): 25,750
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520D-SE-/201030198992783/advert?channel=CARS

cheapest auto: (non UK): 27,950. has cream leather
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520-D-SE/201027198712732/advert?channel=CARS

the autos tend to have a better spec, and theres a decent batch of them between 27 and 29k, sports steering wheel etc (which costs about 1k to add as a retro if I'm not mistaken).

love that new steptronic gear shifter too; like something from a Playstation

EDIT: heres one with the sports wheel + leather, also for €27,950
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520-SE-A/201031199062307/advert?channel=CARS

prices have been almost static on them lately, but there are more becoming available for sale. there should be a decent(ish) cut in price come Jan and the new one is fully availabale

veetwin

romperstomper wrote: »

Obviously I disagree or I wouldn't have bought it, but consider that u will pay a 5k premium on the 08s or later for the auto and u will pay an extra 20% at the pumps as long as you have the car. If money is tight, that must be a factor. And a 156pa tax car will always be worth more than the nom emissions based cars auto or not. Resale has to be a factorr or else you could save a fortune and buy a peughot. 607

If that's the situation maybe a large executive saloon is not the best purchase. Personally I think a manual 5 series is a crazy buy. This car absolutley needs the auto box. I have driven both and there is no comaparison. Auto all the way

romperstomper

why wouldn't it be? I drove both and dislike the auto box for the reason that I didn't think it was as responsive. If I liked the auto box enough then i'd have bought it. my point is that the amount I would have needed to like the autobox was (as I bought new) 5K upfront and then another 5K for the first five years (after which I'd be looking at changing), so cost to me would would have been 10K. as I didn't like it as much there was no way I was forking that out, but even if you prefer the auto do you prefer it to the tune of 10k? FYI new 5 series + 10K is jag xf s money and thats a step up in class

bmstuff

kceire wrote: »

i havent heard of any E90's with the swirl flap issue, didnt they sort it out after the eary 150bhp E46's?

The design has been improved so there is less issues with these, but still there is and it is recommend to replace them with the opened ones.

bmstuff

bazz26 wrote: »

Thanks for that, not sure I'll be buying through the main dealer network as they tend to be very expensive to purchase. Probably looking at getting it serviced at my local BMW specialist, just want to have an idea what will potentially be instore with regards servicing and repairs on these cars.

You would be surprised that BMW Value services can be much better value than most indy.
It cost me more to buy a set of 4 large discs and pads (OEM sizes) from ATE (OEM manufacturer for BMW) and pay my local mechanic 100 euro to get them fitted than going to BMW...
Their oil service is interresting too.

veetwin

romperstomper wrote: »

why wouldn't it be? I drove both and dislike the auto box for the reason that I didn't think it was as responsive. If I liked the auto box enough then i'd have bought it. my point is that the amount I would have needed to like the autobox was (as I bought new) 5K upfront and then another 5K for the first five years (after which I'd be looking at changing), so cost to me would would have been 10K. as I didn't like it as much there was no way I was forking that out, but even if you prefer the auto do you prefer it to the tune of 10k? FYI new 5 series + 10K is jag xf s money and thats a step up in class

Not saying that you a wrong or anything but as far as I can see from the BMW website auto is €2,200 approx extra. Just wondering where you are getting the 10K figure from. If the used autos are commanding a 5K premium then surely it only reinforces the necessity of getting one. Of course if its a personal preference thats fine but it appears that manual 5 series depreciate much quicker than the autos.

romperstomper

I think you have mis-understood. there is a 5K difference between the SE and m-sport model when new. After 2 years they will be about 2.5K apart ALL things being equal.

The 2K difference the auto is when new is almost nothing after 2 years. As said you have to balance the hit at the pumps when considering it

veetwin wrote: »

Not saying that you a wrong or anything but as far as I can see from the BMW website auto is €2,200 approx extra. Just wondering where you are getting the 10K figure from. If the used autos are commanding a 5K premium then surely it only reinforces the necessity of getting one. Of course if its a personal preference thats fine but it appears that manual 5 series depreciate much quicker than the autos.

veetwin

romperstomper wrote: »

I think you have mis-understood. there is a 5K difference between the SE and m-sport model when new. After 2 years they will be about 2.5K apart ALL things being equal.

The 2K difference the auto is when new is almost nothing after 2 years. As said you have to balance the hit at the pumps when considering it

OK so you are saying that the 2K spent on the auto when new is not reflected in the price of a 2 year old 5 series? I still don't get where the 10K figure comes in. Also I suspect that you would need to be putting up a serious amount of miles to save on fuel over 2 years in a manual.

romperstomper

its a 10K difference over 5 years, not 2.
say they started @ 45 new for manual SE and 50 new for auto M-sport

5 years later, showroom condition with 100K miles, they are both worth ~15K
meanwhile you spent an extra 5 initially and an extra 5 at the pumps

unkel

romperstomper wrote: »

its a 10K difference over 5 years, not 2.
say they started @ 45 new for manual SE and 50 new for auto M-sport

5 years later, showroom condition with 100K miles, they are both worth ~15K
meanwhile you spent an extra 5 initially and an extra 5 at the pumps

I really don't get any of your figures. The official mixed driving figures for the current model manual (auto) are 5.0l (5.2l) /100km

This means over 100k miles, the difference is 320l, or about €400. Also good luck trying to sell a 5 year old manual for the same asking price as the automatic for sale next door to ya

romperstomper

official me hole. its a 20% difference. and as already stated previously there is an almost even split of auto vs manual for sale on carzone and next to now difference all things being equal

veetwin

OK lets for argument sake say that there is a 20% difference between auto and manual. I happen to have an auto that does say 40mpg. Therefore a manual should do 48mpg.

Over 100K the auto will use 2500 gallons while the manual will use 2083, a difference of 417 gallons = 1895 litres at todays price of say €1.25 = €2368.

A bit of a long way off the €5K you suggest. Thats also assuming a 20% differential between auto and manual which I also have my doubts about.

-Chris-

romperstomper wrote: »

its a 10K difference over 5 years, not 2.
say they started @ 45 new for manual SE and 50 new for auto M-sport

Why are you comparing a manual SE and an auto M-Sport?

Adding automatic to an SE costs €2,200.

As Unkel has said, the additional fuel costs from the automatic will be €400ish (his method is slightly more scientific than "official me hole").

Like for like, I'd expect an auto to be worth (at least) €1k more than a manual in a few years. This point can be debated.
Even if it isn't, there's still a big difference between €2,600 and €10k...

DonJose

LOL at the URL of the BMW service price list.

http://external.bmw.ie/sausage/templates/BMW06/pricelists/PriceListBPSSI.pdf

-Chris-

I've actually seen that on several motoring websites, I don't know if it's some in-joke for the web developers.

sk8board

romperstomper wrote: »

Ihave a manual 'executive spec' 520d and my dad has the auto and I can assure you that there I a huge difffere in mpg. Iget 1200km per 70 litre tank and he barely gets 1000. Keep that in mind especially as there will be likely tax hikes on the pumps soon

1000km to a 70L tank is only about low 30's mpg? surely that can't be the case?

even 20% more than that for the manual must only be possible with very very heavy driving

I viewed a steptronic in Duffys a few months ago and the trip computer said 48mpg over 650km mixed driving, owned by a city driver. even allowing for the computer to be over-stating it, thats a lot more than low 30's?

edit: google convertor says: 70L/1000km is 33.6 mpg

unkel

sk8board wrote: »

1000km to a 70L tank is only about low 30's mpg? surely that can't be the case?

edit: google convertor says: 70L/1000km is 33.6 mpg

If you use an online calculator, you better ensure you use the correct units, the British Imperial ones and not the ones in use by the yankees

1000km = 621.5 miles
70l = 15.4 gallons

so just over 40MPG

About right for an auto 520d driver with a heavy right foot and / or driving a bad mix, town, heavy traffic, etc.

sk8board

unkel wrote: »

If you use an online calculator, you better ensure you use the correct units, the British Imperial ones and not the ones in use by the yankees

1000km = 621.5 miles
70l = 15.4 gallons

so just over 40MPG

About right for an auto 520d driver with a heavy right foot and / or driving a bad mix, town, heavy traffic, etc.

40 seems about right alright, although I'd say it be hard to get it much lower! Real world long term tests on the interweb say about 48mpg for the step auto.

40 is still better than my 1.6L petrol hatchback