Pyrite

RFL09

Hi all
I would appreciate some feed back on this as I may have the same problem in my own house (location not disclosed at this point)
I noticed that up to 20 houses in Tayluers Point in Rush Co. Dublin are having major work carried out to sort this Pyrite issue out.
Who is actually paying for this work?

What if the developer is no longer trading - where do I go then?

Regards

Very Confused!

Niall Keane

There's a group action on this, I think 20m has been spent on fees so far, 60m damages sought. Homebond gave guarantees, grey area, will be in the courts for a long time.

Under traditional contract builder would be responsible for construction and workmanship, if it’s a design/build the developer could be the builder and be responsible. Under building regulations one is obliged to design and build in accordance with such, which for the builder includes materials fit for purpose.

The legal argument goes, the builders are blaming the supplier / quarry, saying that they acted in good faith, and Homebond having given the guarantee are also in the thick of it, but it seems that they now cannot afford to pay out, makes you wonder about all insurances!

Time is the major factor, the longer you leave the pyrite in place the less likely your house will survive!

I think this really needs central government to intervene.

RFL09

Thanks for the reply Niall,

From reading up on the whole issue it appears that €3000 - €4000 has to be spent on testing and engineers reports to prove that pyrite is present before anything can be done
Who pays for this?
I assume that each house hold will have to foot this bill
What happens if the developer and the quarry who supplied the stone are both gone out of business

This is a huge problem for thousands of people who are struggling to make ends meat never mind dealing with all of this.
Surely this justifies government action ahead of toxic loans!

Replies much appreciated!

bazzachazza

I also have this issue.

Our builder has admitted there is a problem with our home and many many others where I live (not in Dublin but near). He is currently repairing homes fair ****s to him its costing him a fortune.

He has sued insurance company no joy, currently suing quarry who's fault it is ultimately as they were negligent in doing no checks on quality of hardcore they were supplying, but that will take years If this suit fails we are left at the grace of the builders and him fixing the problem out of his own pocket. Currently he is trying to secure funds from a bank. What chance of that in this current climate.

So far we have had test done. It proved positive. The builder is paying for this it roughly costs €2000 per home to do and wait time is about 4-6 weeks for test and up to 12 weeks for result due to demand.

The repair to the home will cost €55000+ per home and we have as yet got no date for when they will do the work, which is our biggest worry at the moment.

Homebond is not worth **** to anyone other than telling a perspective buyer that you have it. Note your house is unsaleable if you have Pyrite. Max €500000 bond per ESTATE. So in our case they will contribute €2000 to repairs but we wont get a penny as the entire fund has been used up.

If builder disappears like the rest of them then you can try sue him but that will cost you money which is better saved to repair your home. Our solicitor told me honestly not to bother with this route as whats the point suing someone/something that no longer exists and has no money. Suing could cost us €10000 per day in court.

The builder so far has been very good to us and everyone else here where we lived and has done a fantastic job so far. At least 26 homes have been repaired if not more. Here's hoping he keeps up the good job till we get ours done at least.

RFL09

Thanks for that

Sounds like a good honest builder
I think the developer in my case may be gone bust (am checking it out at the moment )
I know that the quarry who supplied the stone closed down some time ago- I guess they saw the train coming down the tracks!
Not sure of best way to approach this, however I guess that the first step is proving that Pyrite is the problem

Best of luck with fixing the problem!

Anyone else out there with this problem? Especially in the Rush/Lusk area!

bazzachazza

Depending on the development of the cracks you may have time.

Mine are slow to expand and I reckon I have at least 5 years before it becomes a serious issue, friend of mine is getting his house fixed in next few months his cracks are huge he can't close any doors some cracks were over a centimetre wide.

My point is don't panic you have time, I'm in my house 5 years and reckon I will be here 10 years before its an issue.

Peter Sweeney

Would not recommend leaving the pyrite issue any longer then you have to.
In a worst case scenario the longer you leave it the greater the damage caused by the swelling, which under certain circumstances may lead to spreading of the exterior rising walls. The rising walls are what supports the main exterior and interior structural walls. If this problem occurs it maybe more cost effective to knock the entire property and start again.

prech101

Hi,

I have been trying to sort this issue out for 4 years now.

firstly govt. want nothing to do with it, Gormely firmly washed his hands of the issue 2/3 years ago and continues to do so, stating its an issue between builder and buyer.

Homebound: where to start, firstly its a scam, i have been informed by homebound which you have to take out when buying your home (not sure what the cost is) but they are also trying to wash there hands of the issue stating 3 - 4 grand per house is all they have. Whats the point of taking out insurance (mandatory insurance) if a problem arises and they refuse to deal with it, just keep sending me back to builder. the very existance of this company should now be called into question,, no doubt the galway tent boys are involved in this one.

As prev poster stated, problem will get worse as time goes by, i have probs opeening front door, some internal doors downstaris no longer close and the cracks are getting wider and starting to creep aling the cellings in my home.
it also puts you in limbo, no point doing anything to your home because in the end it has to get ripped out,, or falls down.

Put this on top of the rest of the current pobs faced by the country and its citzens and I can tell you, i have not known stress like it,, i am just completely discourged as the legal system just puts barriers up in front of you one after another and company law protects the theives not the average joe who has been robbed (AGAIN)


regards

Pyrite Princess

RFL09 wrote: »

Thanks for that

Sounds like a good honest builder
I think the developer in my case may be gone bust (am checking it out at the moment )
I know that the quarry who supplied the stone closed down some time ago- I guess they saw the train coming down the tracks!
Not sure of best way to approach this, however I guess that the first step is proving that Pyrite is the problem

Best of luck with fixing the problem!

Anyone else out there with this problem? Especially in the Rush/Lusk area!

Hey there ! I am one of the Tayleurs Point Residents who is going to have to move out for remedial works ..... major pain, to put it mildly. If you want to pm me, I will fill you in on any details you need to know.

lube5150

i worked for some property developers over the boom era,,,,and i realy feel sorry for anyone that has or will have this problem,,,,i know of one quarry that supplyed us,,and most of west dublin with their stone,,,and it was full of pyrite,,,yet they had grade tests on it,,,i later discovered that the quarry in question were using stone from another quarry,,,and testing it as their own,,,,,dont want to say to much,,,,but it looks like this is only the start of another fine mess,,,,,,

Pyrite Princess

I'd say you are right ... its just the tip of the iceberg. It can take 10 to 15 years for pyritic damage to show. If I am ever in the housing market again, there's no way I would buy a house built in the timeframe 2003-2007 unless buyers can prove no pyrite present as having spoken extensively to the Core drilling & testing compny, this "Pyrite" quarried stone was cropping up in buildings all over Dublin, North and South County, Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Offaly and Westmeath. And not just in homes, but in offices, shops, schools ..... it's going to be one major problem which the Government so far are largely ignoring. Aaaah, don't get me started. I've had over 2 years of it at this stage and I could write a book, I swear ........

antiskeptic

Janey Mac - what a horrorific thing to happen to anyone!

Compare to what the Quebec government are doing in response to the same problem.

Who pays the cost of the program?

• The Québec government provides at least 62.5% of the financial assistance granted.
• The Canadian government contributes 25%.
• The participating municipalities are expected to provide up to 12.5%.

http://www.habitation.gouv.qc.ca/en/programmes/pyrite.html

BDSC1964

Folks,
the best course of action is to get a qualified engineers report. these are available for a lot less than €4,000 which I see people citing.
Depending on your type of insurance this should be reclaimable.

barryt1975

Hi all, I live in North Dublin and only got confirmation last week that our 2005 4 bed semi has pyrite. We contacted the builder late 2009 [not the most proactive builder by a long stretch], and got fobbed off, but after speaking to our neighbours we as a group agreed that something had to be done. WE independently got the property surveyed by struct engineer and sent the builder & homebond [homebond a complete waste of time] the results. got the house tested and last week builder confirmed Pyrite. He says he'll fix it but keeps putting us on the long finger. There's about 15 homes that are effected but we think the entire estate 200 or so homes could be effected. think he's waiting for current high court case ruling [expected late 2011]. Feel disheartened with this whole thing.

My advise: act early, keep records, speak to your neighbours, act as a group and best of luck, don't let these buliders away with anything, know your rights

BDSC1964

Yes I believe the identification of it is one of the first stumbling blocks if you want to prove your case. I believe there is a company in city west that will do this for you. Try googling structural engineer.

bazzachazza

Try a call to DBFL they did ours.;)

BDSC1964

Just for the record and price comparison the company in city west is fahy fitzpatrick

pyriteworry

hi al

im looking for anyone who is r has dealt wit dublin city council regarding pyrite in homes wht have they done wht is the protocol needed and as tenant wht am i entitled to do. house built in 2002/2003 test bein done at present but defo looks and has al symptons of this headwreckin substance
any info greatly recieved

sinnerboy

barryt1975 wrote: »

WE independently got the property surveyed by struct engineer and sent the builder & homebond [homebond a complete waste of time] the results. got the house tested and last week builder confirmed Pyrite.

I am very sorry to hear of your troubles here . If you don't mind - can you share what form of test was used i.e. was your floor broken up to remove a sample ? Or was some electronic device used ?

pyriteworry

hi sinnerboy

floor was dug up and two sample of rock/foundation was taken

pyrite point

Pyrite Princess wrote: »

Hey there ! I am one of the Tayleurs Point Residents who is going to have to move out for remedial works ..... major pain, to put it mildly. If you want to pm me, I will fill you in on any details you need to know.

Hi Just wondering if you know....we have had test all boxes came back ticked bar the sulpher levels box...less then 1%...do you know what that means????? Would appreciate the advise.xxx:rolleyes:

Pyrite Princess

pyrite point wrote: »

Hi Just wondering if you know....we have had test all boxes came back ticked bar the sulpher levels box...less then 1%...do you know what that means????? Would appreciate the advise.xxx:rolleyes:

Not really sure what the sulphur implications are, but was told by Premier that once you prove "cause" and "effect" then they admit liability ("cause" being the presence of pyrite levels and "effect" being the damage it has caused usually in the form of pyritic upheaval to the floors and walls - in our case it was necessary to have a ground floor level survey carried out). I'm sure since we started, Premier may have changed their protocol but your testing company should be able to advise re the implications of sulphur. Good Luck to you .... it's a nightmare but try and stay positive. Two years ago when we started this whole process, we were completely at sea but now we will be moving back into our home following the remedial works in the next few months so fingers crossed it will all work out for you too.

pyrite point

Pyrite Princess wrote: »

Not really sure what the sulphur implications are, but was told by Premier that once you prove "cause" and "effect" then they admit liability ("cause" being the presence of pyrite levels and "effect" being the damage it has caused usually in the form of pyritic upheaval to the floors and walls - in our case it was necessary to have a ground floor level survey carried out). I'm sure since we started, Premier may have changed their protocol but your testing company should be able to advise re the implications of sulphur. Good Luck to you .... it's a nightmare but try and stay positive. Two years ago when we started this whole process, we were completely at sea but now we will be moving back into our home following the remedial works in the next few months so fingers crossed it will all work out for you too.

Hi thanx.. Yep our testing company thnk we b ok as we have damage and abudent frambodial pyrite......Had floor level survey etc...i'm just panicking as haven't heard back off premier yet with a desision and heard they like sulphervlevels levels to be higher...oh well will just have to wait it out and see!thank again.xxxxxxxx

bazzachazza

pyrite point wrote: »

Hi thanx.. Yep our testing company thnk we b ok as we have damage and abudent frambodial pyrite......Had floor level survey etc...i'm just panicking as haven't heard back off premier yet with a desision and heard they like sulphervlevels levels to be higher...oh well will just have to wait it out and see!thank again.xxxxxxxx

Welcome to the gang we have been waiting two years to get sorted, don't expect a quick fix.

Others have been waiting 4 years and still haven't been fixed.

I'm with a different builder by the way, and he is fixing home's. Just be lucky you don't live in Dublin they are waiting on their builder to sue the quarry in the High court and they will likely have to wait another 2-3 years for a result on that and they have been waiting 3-4 years already.

This is by no means a fast process:mad::(

pyrite point

bazzachazza wrote: »

Welcome to the gang we have been waiting two years to get sorted, don't expect a quick fix.

Others have been waiting 4 years and still haven't been fixed.

I'm with a different builder by the way, and he is fixing home's. Just be lucky you don't live in Dublin they are waiting on their builder to sue the quarry in the High court and they will likely have to wait another 2-3 years for a result on that and they have been waiting 3-4 years already.

This is by no means a fast process:mad::(

Thank.....I know....nitemare...have known needed to get test dun for ages but put on long finger.getting sorted now tho.gud luc wiv yours.thanks.xxxxx

Pyrite Princess

pyrite point wrote: »

Hi thanx.. Yep our testing company thnk we b ok as we have damage and abudent frambodial pyrite......Had floor level survey etc...i'm just panicking as haven't heard back off premier yet with a desision and heard they like sulphervlevels levels to be higher...oh well will just have to wait it out and see!thank again.xxxxxxxx

You are well on the way so. Our sulphur levels were low enough too - just above 1%, but ground floor survey showed huge inconsistencies. Our final paperwork just went into Premier in January of this year. It took a further 5-6 months to get a decision out of them but once liability was admitted this Summer, the whole process moved quickly enough with our remedial works almost complete now. On the bright side (if you could call it that), at least you are with Premier - same as ourselves. Please feel free to pm me if you want as I am more than happy to share our experience of dealing with Premier - if it is helpful to you..... Again, Best of Luck !

pyrite point

Pyrite Princess wrote: »

You are well on the way so. Our sulphur levels were low enough too - just above 1%, but ground floor survey showed huge inconsistencies. Our final paperwork just went into Premier in January of this year. It took a further 5-6 months to get a decision out of them but once liability was admitted this Summer, the whole process moved quickly enough with our remedial works almost complete now. On the bright side (if you could call it that), at least you are with Premier - same as ourselves. Please feel free to pm me if you want as I am more than happy to share our experience of dealing with Premier - if it is helpful to you..... Again, Best of Luck !

Thanks will keep in touch for sure. Hopefully have news soon...will let you know wen we do and will pick your brain over premier!!!xxxx

whacker4fun

Okay folks. I have worked on various pyrites cases.
Firstly, do not leave it for 10 years, if you have any inclination that it may be pyrite, get a competent engineer out straight away. It is sometimes very difficult to spot on a visual inspection and thus the engineer should or will insist on a sample of the sub grade to be tested. There is huge knock on effects of leaving the pyrite to swell, let alone the increase cost in fixing things that have only recently appeared. The swelling can push out the rising walls, floor slab, internal pipes, etc and they in turn can damage the structure above ground.
The test is fairly simple and it involves a small opening being cut in your floor slab and DPM, and backfill/subgrade being removed, the subgrade should be taken from as far down as possible to increase the test's sample area. I have seen where numerous test have been carried out in floor slabs, and 2 of the 3 have come back negative but one was positive.
The next problem is the testing procedures and guidelines, the problem came from nowhere and the exact protocol is vague and controversial. However alot of the major companies involved in these cases have improved their knowledge and understanding of such.
With regards to the results, there is different sulphate results and recommendation levels but the total sulphur content is very important. This is a direct factor in the formation of pyrite. In general the total sulphate content should not exceed 1% and in my opinion if its over 0.1% I would recommend a second sample of the sub grade be tested in a different location.
Finally, the main reason the contractors are slow to carry out the works is they are losing so much money. They are trying to sue different companies for different reasons while the main argument between Lagan and ^*^^&% has been thrown from the courts and looks like lasting a very long time indeed. Another reason being that they are discussing with different engineers/scientists what are acceptable values of sulphur in sub grade, in the hope that they can reduce the amount of houses that require remedial work.

pyrite point

Thanks so much.guess will just have to wait and see then. Our sulpher levels are less than 1% so still not too sure what this means!! Will wait and see what premier come back with.xxxxx

pyriteworry

Pyrite Princess wrote: »

Hey there ! I am one of the Tayleurs Point Residents who is going to have to move out for remedial works ..... major pain, to put it mildly. If you want to pm me, I will fill you in on any details you need to know.

hi pyrite princess ive bein tryin to pm u and cannot i have alot of questions im hopin u can help wit but i dont knw how to pm tru this ???

pyriteworry

whacker4fun wrote: »

Okay folks. I have worked on various pyrites cases.
Firstly, do not leave it for 10 years, if you have any inclination that it may be pyrite, get a competent engineer out straight away. It is sometimes very difficult to spot on a visual inspection and thus the engineer should or will insist on a sample of the sub grade to be tested. There is huge knock on effects of leaving the pyrite to swell, let alone the increase cost in fixing things that have only recently appeared. The swelling can push out the rising walls, floor slab, internal pipes, etc and they in turn can damage the structure above ground.
The test is fairly simple and it involves a small opening being cut in your floor slab and DPM, and backfill/subgrade being removed, the subgrade should be taken from as far down as possible to increase the test's sample area. I have seen where numerous test have been carried out in floor slabs, and 2 of the 3 have come back negative but one was positive.
The next problem is the testing procedures and guidelines, the problem came from nowhere and the exact protocol is vague and controversial. However alot of the major companies involved in these cases have improved their knowledge and understanding of such.
With regards to the results, there is different sulphate results and recommendation levels but the total sulphur content is very important. This is a direct factor in the formation of pyrite. In general the total sulphate content should not exceed 1% and in my opinion if its over 0.1% I would recommend a second sample of the sub grade be tested in a different location.
Finally, the main reason the contractors are slow to carry out the works is they are losing so much money. They are trying to sue different companies for different reasons while the main argument between Lagan and ^*^^&% has been thrown from the courts and looks like lasting a very long time indeed. Another reason being that they are discussing with different engineers/scientists what are acceptable values of sulphur in sub grade, in the hope that they can reduce the amount of houses that require remedial work.

hi there i had my home tested samples taken result came bac worded indicates presence of pyrite but futher testin needs to be done in near future argghhh but yet they are still tryin to say no confirmation on pyrite (confused) wht other testin has to be done and how long does it take to complete.. these crack are on goin for 3yrs+ always told they were settlin crack bullsh*t do walls/ceilins doorframes and windows etc if they are cracked have to come down any help/info u can give would be gr8 stressed to bits is not the word my head is like my home crackin up