Why Do The Green Party Attract Such Animosity?

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privatebob wrote: »

Due to this I voted Green in the last election.

privatebob wrote: »

Also I believe that there is a tail wagging the dog process in government at the moment. I am not a FF'er but I truly believe that FF would love to see the back of the green party at this stage

Aren't you contradicting yourself there?

If "there is a tail wagging the dog process in government at the moment", then that must mean the Green tail is wagging the FF dog. In which case the Greens must be getting policies implemented, even if some FFers (the ones who didn't read the programme for government) don't like them.

Since you voted Green, that (in itself) shouldn't be a cause for complaint, as I'd imagine that most people who voted Green would prefer to see - where possible - the policies of the Greens implemented rather than those of FF...

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taconnol wrote: »

Civil Partnership Bill just passed by the Dail

I'd like to see someone complaining that there's more important things to worry about on this one.

There are more important things but that doesn't mean the Oireachtas can't deal with other issues some of the time.

Mind you some people will just want the Oireachtas to have debates about the economic crisis until everyone dies of terminal boredom...

Liam Byrne

The_Minister wrote: »

They never ruled out coalition with Fianna Fail - ever.

News to me. I must have been asleep when they clarified it pre-election.

the article wrote:

But although he refused to rule out participation in a future Fianna Fáil-led government, he said most people, not just his party members, are looking for change.

So if "most people" want change, that's a majority, right ? In a democracy, right ?

Therefore - in Sargent's own description - the Greens subverted democracy from day one to get into power and compounded it by voting in favour of NAMA and the bailouts in order to stay there.

Not to mention voting confidence in a few dodgy con-men along the way.

Scofflaw

Liam Byrne wrote: »

News to me. I must have been asleep when they clarified it pre-election.



So if "most people" want change, that's a majority, right ? In a democracy, right ?

Therefore - in Sargent's own description - the Greens subverted democracy from day one to get into power and compounded it by voting in favour of NAMA and the bailouts in order to stay there.

Not to mention voting confidence in a few dodgy con-men along the way.

What part of that article is unclear, though?

Greens will not rule out any party coalition.

The leader of the Green Party, Trevor Sargent, has said his party will not be ruling out coalition with any party ahead of a General Election.

The party is meeting for a second day in Co Wicklow to consider its strategies for the forthcoming election campaign.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio, Mr Sargent said that most Green Party supporters were opposed to the current Fianna Fáil-led Government

That says - "would prefer any other coalition". No other coalition was possible.

To be fair, I was also under the impression that they'd ruled out coalition with Fianna Fáil. I shall have to upgrade my opinion of them slightly!

cordially,
Scofflaw

jacaranda

I think what makes the Green party seem ridiculous is that, under the pretence of animal welfare, they waste their time banning the ward hunt, when in reality is comes over as petty and will do nothing to improve the welfare of any animal.

If they really wanted to do something for animal welfare, they would have used this time to do something which would actually improve animal welfare, for example to outlaw intensive battery poultry production, which ensures the chickens that many buy in our supermarkets live disgusting lives. Just because intensive chicken production takes place behind closed doors, rather than out in the open, and is not seen by many people is no excuse to ignore it.

hmmm

Rural Ireland perceives the Greens as being the epitome of the sandle-wearing BMW-driving apartment-dwelling ex-hippy living in Dun Laoghaire who has never spent a day on a working farm yet cares passionately about imposing laws on rural Ireland which harken back to a mythical "golden age". The validity of the caricature is irrelevant, the perception is what counts.

If there was an equivalent rural based party in power which imposed laws which city dwellers felt impinged on their way of life you would have the same level of pushback. The Greens have this PR problem and unfortunately for them it makes reasonable debate on their often sensible policies very difficult.

It doesn't help that many of those who are associated with the GP are perceived as poisonous in the country e.g. McKenna. Prime Time last night was a classic example of the problem, where on one side you had the 90 year old salt of the earth type who just wanted some turf for the fire and on the other side of the argument Dr Professor so and so and some bearded chap in a fetching red jumper going on about flowers.

Liam Byrne

hmmm wrote: »

.......it makes reasonable debate on their often sensible policies very difficult.

I don't agree, and I can't let you sneaking that in there as if it were fact go unchallenged.

The vast majority of Green approaches have been to charge more, or tax more.

Instead of building the sensible, sustainable option and then charging (even roughly) the same amount for it, thereby ensuring that it is both acceptable and sustainable) the Greens ensure that anyone wanting to be green is charged more, while people who don't want to be green get away with stuff like dumping on the sides of rural roads in order to avoid the crazy bin charges associated with recycling.

Add in their complete and blatant avoidance of their "polluter pays" idea on some key policies and you have a set of policies that are far from sensible, particularly in a recession.

Meantime they offer no objection to FF ministers using helicopters to go to Kerry while followed by their ministerial car, thereby more than doubling pollution.

No - the Green's sole purpose seems to be to hammer the reasonable people.

dynamick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Add in their complete and blatant avoidance of their "polluter pays" idea on some key policies

which policies?

Traumadoc

Scofflaw wrote: »

What part of that article is unclear, though?

Clear as mud.

the day before:


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unimpressed-greens-snub-overture-from-fianna-fail-82135.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0807/green.html

I was fooled by sargent, he got me good.

Liam Byrne

dynamick wrote: »

which policies?

Here's one, anyway :

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/440000-must-buy-septic-tank-licence--gormley-1929083.html

dynamick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Here's one, anyway :

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/440000-must-buy-septic-tank-licence--gormley-1929083.html

You think it's wrong to tax people who defecate into the local water table?

The EU through the ECJ ordered Ireland to comply with the Waste water directive from the 1970s. We had to pay our own legal costs and most of the ECJ's costs too. Had we not enacted this legislation we would have been fined.

So now, septic tanks will have to be inspected as they are in every other western EU country. Is that a bad thing? What was your alternative? Pay the fines and let people continue to crap in their water supply?

IrishTonyO

Traumadoc wrote: »

Clear as mud.

the day before:


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unimpressed-greens-snub-overture-from-fianna-fail-82135.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0807/green.html

I was fooled by sargent, he got me good.

The bit I like the best

"Mr Sargent said the current version of Fianna Fáil could not be a partner for any 'responsible' party."

Liam Byrne

dynamick wrote: »

You think it's wrong to tax people who defecate into the local water table?

Yes (on the actual principle, not on your ridiculous twist of the facts :rolleyes:).

But did you even read my post ?

What I said was that their stated objective of "polluter pays" has been abandoned.

I've discussed this elsewhere on boards........if it's a serious pollution problem caused by some who don't maintain their tanks then the €5,000 fines will go a long way to paying for the inspections.

If 200 people were fined in a year, then that's a million quid; that'll pay for a lot of inspections, fining those who are polluting without punishing those who aren't.

My statement that they abandoned the "polluter pays" principle is 100% true and accurate

dynamick wrote: »

So now, septic tanks will have to be inspected as they are in every other western EU country. Is that a bad thing? What was your alternative? Pay the fines and let people continue to crap in their water supply?

Do you seriously believe that people "crap in their water supply" ? :rolleyes:

Anyway, the new water charges will ensure that we're paying for water treatment, so therefore we will also be paying for clean water, separately from the additional taxes on septic tanks.

irishh_bob

the greens are not all bad but they are insufferable PC wooly liberal do-gooders and that gets up most peoples nose

IrishTonyO

There was a good article in The Sunday Tribune last week by Dave Kenny

"Green-caped crusader? More like hooded hypocrite"

http://www.tribune.ie/news/editorial-opinion/article/2010/jun/27/david-kenny-green-caped-crusader-more-like-hooded-/

astrofool

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes (on the actual principle, not on your ridiculous twist of the facts :rolleyes:).

But did you even read my post ?

What I said was that their stated objective of "polluter pays" has been abandoned.

I've discussed this elsewhere on boards........if it's a serious pollution problem caused by some who don't maintain their tanks then the €5,000 fines will go a long way to paying for the inspections.

If 200 people were fined in a year, then that's a million quid; that'll pay for a lot of inspections, fining those who are polluting without punishing those who aren't.

My statement that they abandoned the "polluter pays" principle is 100% true and accurate



Do you seriously believe that people "crap in their water supply" ? :rolleyes:

Anyway, the new water charges will ensure that we're paying for water treatment, so therefore we will also be paying for clean water, separately from the additional taxes on septic tanks.

While other green policy implementations are incompetent at best, the septic tank license/fine is long overdue.

The state of the majority of septic tanks in Ireland is absolutely shocking, hopefully the license fee will be used to make sure that each and every one of them is inspected and brought up to standard.

Liam Byrne

astrofool wrote: »

While other green policy implementations are incompetent at best, the septic tank license/fine is long overdue.

The state of the majority of septic tanks in Ireland is absolutely shocking, hopefully the license fee will be used to make sure that each and every one of them is inspected and brought up to standard.

Have you inspected the majority of them already, or something ?

No inspections required at all, so......sure just make a blanket and completely unsupported statement and then fine every rural-dweller.....that'll serve them right for living in the countryside and installing and maintaining their own septic tanks! :rolleyes:

IF you are correct, then fine the majority; at €5,000 each - IF you are correct - then it'll probably pay Anglo's bill.

As I said earlier, the Green's claimed mantra is polluter pays, and they are ignoring this to charge everybody.

That statement stands as 100% true and accurate.

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As I said earlier, the Green's claimed mantra is polluter pays, and they are ignoring this to charge everybody.

That statement stands as 100% true and accurate.

I spend almost 5K on a modern treatment plant and then a yearly inspection and maintenance fee of 100-200
I swear if i have to pay some sort of septic tank charge on top of this, grrr


My problem with the Greens is their authoritarianism and their "tax tax tax" approach, and before anyone accuses me of being a capitalist pig again,
I care about the environment and have spend a small fortune of insulation/glazing/heat recovery and solar heating to bring new home to A spec (and no i wasn't able to avail of any grants!) and looking into wind generator now (despite the payback period being extremely long, if any)

I dont think im alone in saying that "the Animosity towards the Greens is their backward approach to solving problems and their down right hypocrisy"

Agent_47

Probably coming into this debate too late but how and ever, I am an advocate of the Polluter (user) pays principle however I do not see Green policy following this through as much as previous Ministers for the Environment have done.

Greens are contentious for their flawed ideals translating into flawed policies.
I have to site the recent end of life tyres fiasco aired on Pr*** Time recently. The polluter paid in this case alright.

In the water charges debate it is currently too cheap for commericial premises to waste thousands of litres of water through leaking pipes and un-metered systems. However Green policy will see residential households metered before tackling commericial entities where large proportions of water are being wasted (for obvious work reasons I cannot elaborate further). DLR Co Co charge as little as 1 euro per 1,000 litres of water approx. There is no incentive to save water at that cost.

Don't get me started on waste policy and planning. I have seen nothing on waste policy since the Greens came in, in fact policy in this area has gone backwards. So much so I am seating on the edge of my seat woundering if the waste company we use will appear on Pr*** Time for illegal dumping (of recyclables).

Planning is a farce, would dearly love to see the national stats on housing estates to be taken into charge, ticking bomb for county councils who gave the go ahead to build build build. See a application nearby for 700 houses lodged with planning, also see an estate nearby with empty first fix houses built 5 years.

Where has the Green focus on jobs for Green economy gone? This is what the man on the street is interested in, not bicycles for inner city commute or stag hunting.

simonj

Well, for a start, a lot of grass roots greens are not at all happy with the executive, Andrew Byrne in particular from what I hear.

There has been a disconnect and a disillusion with the parties support for FF cuts in the wrong places.

Pushing through the turf ban while Shell is alowed to destroy SHAs and other areas of the Mayo environement has been a disaster.

Gogerty is an embarresment, between the Stagg outburst, the floor rollong and the most recent unintellegable gibberish speech debating the banking crisis - jesus, I almost felt sorry for them

T Sergent having to step down, but not leaving his seat was a bad move

Dierdre De Burca leaving was very damaging

the about face on Lisbon II

The fact that political careers were put before the good of the nation like the Willie O Dea fiasco

The fact that FF are using and will use the Greens as a whipping boy to their supporters, and destroy them as they did the PDs I feel has made a lot of Greens lose heart - as we have seen with Fis Nua's formation

IF the greens can find an issue of principle left to leave government, it will be too little too late, they have lost crediblity

simonj

Agent_47 wrote: »

Probably coming into this debate too late but how and ever, I am an advocate of the Polluter (user) pays principle however I do not see Green policy following this through as much as previous Ministers for the Environment have done.

Greens are contentious for their flawed ideals translating into flawed policies.
I have to site the recent end of life tyres fiasco aired on Pr*** Time recently. The polluter paid in this case alright.

In the water charges debate it is currently too cheap for commericial premises to waste thousands of litres of water through leaking pipes and un-metered systems. However Green policy will see residential households metered before tackling commericial entities where large proportions of water are being wasted (for obvious work reasons I cannot elaborate further). DLR Co Co charge as little as 1 euro per 1,000 litres of water approx. There is no incentive to save water at that cost.

Don't get me started on waste policy and planning. I have seen nothing on waste policy since the Greens came in, in fact policy in this area has gone backwards. So much so I am seating on the edge of my seat woundering if the waste company we use will appear on Pr*** Time for illegal dumping (of recyclables).

Planning is a farce, would dearly love to see the national stats on housing estates to be taken into charge, ticking bomb for county councils who gave the go ahead to build build build. See a application nearby for 700 houses lodged with planning, also see an estate nearby with empty first fix houses built 5 years.

Where has the Green focus on jobs for Green economy gone? This is what the man on the street is interested in, not bicycles for inner city commute or stag hunting.

Agent, you are so right - seriously, Gormley as minister for local government where, here in Galway it is a farce how waste, illegal quarries, dumping and unenforced planning regs are unreal

People will be stopped cutting turf in raised bogs, whereas SHA's in Mayo are being destroyed by Shell.

Scofflaw

Pushing through the turf ban while Shell is alowed to destroy SHAs and other areas of the Mayo environement has been a disaster.

It's not a case of "pushing through the turf ban", though - it's a case of finally implementing something that should have been implemented 11 years ago. No pushing about it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

simonj

OK, how about allowing a corporaton to override peoples rights and concerns, allow a corporation to damage an SHA and treat planning laws with contempt, stand by while FF and Dr Woods bail out the church that covered up for child rapists.

With regards to the bog, I know Mayor Flannigan in passing, like me he would be an environmentalist.
But the NPWS tell us the bog is OK, it is over-ridden by over zealous people

Here in Galway the CoCo allowed a quarry - that was subsequently found to be in trespass in the entire area, to claim ownership of several families turbary rights.

Let Minister Gormly sort out corruptin in local government, enforce the law that exists, and then start new projects

Liam Byrne

astrofool wrote: »

The state of the majority of septic tanks in Ireland is absolutely shocking

I'll give it another day for this statement to be backed up with proof.

simonj

If mines anything to go by at the moment its true

But seriously, because of clientism the amount of people here who have shore front property where the grey water goes straight into the sea is shocking.

I am not talking a short drain, I am talking a the grey water pipe straight into the sea

Liam Byrne

simonj wrote: »

But seriously, because of clientism the amount of people here who have shore front property where the grey water goes straight into the sea is shocking.

I am not talking a short drain, I am talking a the grey water pipe straight into the sea

Then - as I said - I've no objection to the book being thrown at them in a genuine "polluter pays" way.....fine the bo**ox off them.

Mind you, that scenario doesn't appear to even have a septic tank that needs to be "inspected", so they'll probably get off scot-free! :mad:

By all means - as I said - inspect the tank and fine those (ir)responsible......paying the cost of the inspections from the fines.

The Greens sicken me at this stage with their stick-and-no-carrot approaches to everything.....except, of course, there's no stick for corrupt and incompetent politicians, bankers and developers; oh no, they get votes of confidence from our earthy rulers...... :mad:

Scofflaw

simonj wrote: »

OK, how about allowing a corporaton to override peoples rights and concerns, allow a corporation to damage an SHA and treat planning laws with contempt, stand by while FF and Dr Woods bail out the church that covered up for child rapists.

With regards to the bog, I know Mayor Flannigan in passing, like me he would be an environmentalist.
But the NPWS tell us the bog is OK, it is over-ridden by over zealous people

Here in Galway the CoCo allowed a quarry - that was subsequently found to be in trespass in the entire area, to claim ownership of several families turbary rights.

Let Minister Gormly sort out corruptin in local government, enforce the law that exists, and then start new projects

That's more than a little unfocused - do you want the Ministry of the Environment to make all planning decisions, or just reverse the ones you disagree with? Do you think we should allow the existence of one problem to mean doing nothing about any other problems? Who should dictate the priorities? You? Me? John Gormley? If local councillors are bad at making planning decisions, why should we trust Mayor Ming more than conservation experts? Does the Church's child abuse mean that the Ministry of the Environment shouldn't implement an environmental law set up 11 years ago? How does that follow, in your mind?

wonderingly,
Scofflaw

simonj

Ach Scoff, we are almost always at loggerheads, but yeah, that was a scattered approach.

For one thing the DoE is responsible for local government, I'd like to see them exercise their duty and make sure that local government does its job within the legal framework laid out before introducing new legislation.

It is good that Minister Gormley has announced an investigation, and here in Galway it sems all the senior planners are taking early retirement, as are several environmental staff

Stroke Fahy should not have been elegible to run for office, that was allowed to go ahead.

Here also, quarries have tried to sieze peoples property, i.e. their turbary rights and foreshore rights.
Private individuals have had to go to the highcourt over this.

Having had dealings with the coco and NPWS and DoE in relation to these issues, I have found they pass the ball around so much, none of them want to do anything - so I am frustrated.

A quarry company digs into an NHA despite a court order, nothing is done.
A young local family with 2 kids cannot get plannig permission for a small, green, house and are forced to live in a mobile home.
Permission was denied as they live across the road from an NHA

A developer with grown up kids uilds a 10 bedroom house in an SHA and is gven planning on retention - i.e. retrospectivly.

So, I am tired of the Greens saying one thing and doing another, and it is they - despite all the promises made - who have let FF ride roughshod over the country.

Scofflaw

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The state of the majority of septic tanks in Ireland is absolutely shocking

I'll give it another day for this statement to be backed up with proof.

Given that the EPA Groundwater monitoring programme found 67% of wells and springs to be contaminated by faecal coliforms in 2007-2008, and that the EPA and the Groundwater Section of the Geological Survey of Ireland find septic tanks - well, on-site wastewater treatment systems (OSWTSs) - to be responsible for roughly half that contamination (see here), for example - the scale of the septic tank problem is obviously pretty large.

On the subject of the evil Minister, this is a Dáil debate from November last year, following the ECJ judgement against Ireland in the matter of septic tank licensing (DoE versus the EU Commission since about 2002):

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
The European Court of Justice recently ruled that Ireland had failed to fulfil its obligations under Articles 4 and 8 of the 1975 waste directive as regards domestic wastewaters disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual wastewater treatment systems. The renewed programme for Government includes a commitment to introduce a scheme for the licensing and inspection of septic tanks and other on-site wastewater treatment systems. My Department which has established a task force to consider the matter will develop proposals to give effect to this commitment and respond in full to the court judgment. The Department’s initial assessment is that compliance with the ruling will require new legislation that will set standards for the performance of all individual wastewater treatment systems, provide for periodic inspection by a competent person, establish penalties for non-compliance and provide for corrective measures where a system is found to be defective. My Department is required to submit to the European Commission by the end of December formal proposals on how it proposes to achieve compliance with the judgment and to set out a timeframe for compliance.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
I am supportive of anything we can do to improve the quality of groundwater which is in a very poor state in many parts of the country. I draw the Minister’s attention to an excellent report by the Joint Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. It arises from a number of presentations made by interested parties. Deputy Ciarán Lynch and I participated in the process and are supportive of the outcome which is long overdue. Will the Minister indicate how long it will be before the scheme is rolled out?

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
The task force has approximately two months to produce a set of proposals. It will comprise officials from my Department, the local authorities and the EPA. We must then go through a legislative process. Due to the pressure on us, rightly, because of the severity of the problem, I hope the legislation will be passed within a year. It is absolutely essential. According to the CSO, there are approximately 418,000 septic tanks. I believe that is a conservative estimate because it does not take into account many of the commercial premises and so forth that rely on septic tanks. Many of the septic tanks in place should never have been approved, as the soil conditions were completely wrong. There was a degree of irresponsibility on the part of planners at local authority level. The numbers involved are incredible but we must take this problem in hand. We must have a situation where there is no threat to our groundwater from badly functioning septic tanks.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
Deputy Hogan has referred to the work done by the joint committee on this issue. Both he and I were present for a visit to the committee by people involved in the septic tank industry who provided the Department with a report. One of the significant aspects of that report was the call for regulation. We had a bizarre situation where the industry was seeking regulation from the Government. How long has the report been on the Minister’s desk? How long has the industry been seeking regulation? When will it be granted?

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
There is nothing bizarre about the industry seeking regulation as it stands to benefit from such regulation. I have met industry representatives who have shown me the latest equipment, how it functions and how it can be installed quickly in an existing septic tank. There is much innovation in the industry, members of which are delighted that at long last there is a Minister interested in this subject because it has been a problem over successive Administrations. It did not just arise in the last two years or so but has been present for some time and people have failed to tackle it.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Tell everyone that.

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
It is a fact. Various Administrations have failed to tackle the problem, although we have known about it for some time. However, this Government will tackle it. There is a real commitment to doing so. I have given that commitment today and gave it previously in the renewed programme for Government. The report of the joint committee on the issue was good. However, it makes a few recommendations which will not be implemented, one of them being the provision of an incentive through a grant to upgrade tanks. Given the scale of the problem and the number of septic tanks involved, that is not possible.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
The Minister has said formal proposals must be submitted to the Commission by the end of the year. Will they be submitted to the Commission, following which legislation will be brought before the House and a gun put to our heads because the Minister will say it has already been agreed with the Commission? Will it be another case of the cart being put before the horse or will we have a direct input into it?
What efforts are being made to inform people how they can properly utilise and maintain a septic tank? Basic information is not being provided for the public on the ongoing usage and maintenance of a septic tank. What investment is taking place to develop the technology to install new systems such as seed bacteria or small reed beds that can solve many of these problems cost effectively?

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
I am glad the Deputy has referred to that innovation. I have spoken to people such as Éamon de Buitléar and others who believe we do not need hard engineering solutions but can use the reed bed technologies which work very effectively. It is something we will have to explore to a greater extent, particularly in small connurbations where they can be very effective.
To refer to the Deputy’s earlier point, I am not putting a gun to anybody’s head. We have been put under pressure, rightly so, by this court judgment. We must produce legislation. Deputies will have adequate time when the legislation is being debated in the House to make their feelings known and make proposals. That is the proper way to proceed. If the Deputy has ideas, I will be more than happy to discuss them with him if he believes it would be helpful.

Perhaps that explains some of the issues you're objecting to - septic tanks have to be licensed, because of an ECJ judgement against Ireland, and there's no money for any incentive grant because of the scale of the problem - if we take it that there's a problem with 67% of septic tanks (in line with the EPA figures for contamination), then an incentive grant of, say, €500, taken up by 281,000 septic tank owners would cost the state €140m. That's quite a bit of money in the current environment.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

Scofflaw wrote: »

Given that the EPA Groundwater monitoring programme found 67% of wells and springs to be contaminated by faecal coliforms in 2007-2008, and that the EPA and the Groundwater Section of the Geological Survey of Ireland find septic tanks - well, on-site wastewater treatment systems (OSWTSs) - to be responsible for roughly half that contamination

None of that answers where that came from.

I'm actually surprised that you're supporting an unfounded claim since - as I said - if astrofool can support that claim, then there is no need for inspections; and if they can't, surely a moderator should be requesting people to back up unsubstantiated claims ?

Scofflaw wrote: »

an incentive grant of, say, €500, taken up by 281,000 septic tank owners would cost the state €140m. That's quite a bit of money in the current environment.

At least it would be money going to a useful purpose, rather than flushing it down the cesspit that is Anglo (pun intended).