Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Cathaoirleach

Sure is.

strassenwo!f

Judgement Day wrote: »

I can hardly wait, more delays and incidents with traffic a la Red Line, more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area and, at the end of the day, pointless. All the media people I've ever heard jump on the join-it-up bandwagon but ask them why.....anyway with the way the Euro is going even this scaled down investment plan will probably never see the light of day.

Despite this rant I still love trams and have been in favour of the development of a tram system for Dublin before many posters here were on solid food. http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/2011/11/despite-hating-luas-bxd-line-i-love.html

Hold on.

You love trams, and you've had more hot dinners, etc, etc, than the rest of us, but yet you seem to want to select who uses these trams, and where they wish to go.

How's that going to work? Could you tell us?

Judgement Day

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Hold on.

You love trams, and you've had more hot dinners, etc, etc, than the rest of us, but yet you seem to want to select who uses these trams, and where they wish to go.

How's that going to work? Could you tell us?

I do love trams but that doesn't mean I want to see them built all over the place without rhyme nor reason. I would like to see the Luas Green line linked to the DART at Pearse/Connolly etc and I would rather that the Broadstone/Liffey Junction alignment were retained for heavy rail use rather than Luas.

I have no problem with who uses trams as long as they behave but, as far as I can see, the area where the Green line will connect with the Red is a lawless zone. I mean O'Connell Street has been a byword for trouble for decades and since the Luas arrived has been joined by Abbey Street/Marlboro Street etc. This is a personal opinion, and I don't have control over where the Luas will be built and anyway I suspect that BXD will never happen.

markpb

Judgement Day wrote: »

I would like to see the Luas Green line linked to the DART at Pearse/Connolly etc

Agreed.

I would rather that the Broadstone/Liffey Junction alignment were retained for heavy rail use rather than Luas.

Why? Personally I'd rather see it used for any rail transport than not used by Irish Rail because the capital costs are too high. I also think that rail lines inside the city should be used for high frequency light rail services, I don't believe that part of the city has the density for heavy rail and is unlikely to grow in the medium term.

AngryLips

Judgement Day wrote: »

I do love trams but that doesn't mean I want to see them built all over the place without rhyme nor reason.

Where is that the case with any of the existing proposals for Luas?

hmmm

Judgement Day wrote: »

the area where the Green line will connect with the Red is a lawless zone.

I agree with you, but this is a policing issue and not a tram infrastructure issue. We shouldn't have to surrender the chance of useful infrastructure being built because of inept policing, certainly not something as straightforward to police as a tram system.

dowlingm

Having Broadstone means dumping everyone out there rather than a through trip anyway. Meanwhile you're reducing capacity on that line because of conflicts. No thanks. As for the Green/Red intersect being lawless - the more trams going through the more incentives to double down on security.

LaFlammeRouge

They should scrap the 'D' part of the BXD, and use the Broadstone alignment as a Busway. We could then have a truly express intercity bus service for the N2 and N3 routes and also for Dublin Bus serving Finglas. This busway would take far more traffic off the streets then a 'slower than walking' Luas.

Judgement Day

In an ideal World, Bus Eireann would be forced to vacate Broadstone and it would be developed as a National Transport Museum - with a Luas or Heavy rail connection but just like BXD it will never happen.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

In an ideal World, Bus Eireann would be forced to vacate Broadstone and it would be developed as a National Transport Museum - with a Luas or Heavy rail connection but just like BXD it will never happen.

Interesting idea.

AngryLips

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have no problem with who uses trams as long as they behave but, as far as I can see, the area where the Green line will connect with the Red is a lawless zone.

What kind of bubble-wrapped world do you live in???

Neworder79

Judgement Day wrote: »

In an ideal World, Bus Eireann would be forced to vacate Broadstone and it would be developed as a National Transport Museum

TRANSPORT MUSEUM! Thought that was Connelly...What the hell would we put in it, all the blueprints for 50 years of unbuilt schemes, and a library of transport reports, committee and consultant pay slips stabled on the end?

Victor

Judgement Day wrote: »

I mean O'Connell Street has been a byword for trouble for decades

In fairness, when I moved to Dublin 18 years ago, O'Connell Street took a bit of getting used to. However, other than begging and the persistent numbers of junkies and the night time antics, I haven't seen much trouble in 15 years. If you are careful, generally it isn't a problem. Sure, one shouldn't have to be careful, but thats life.

robd

lxflyer wrote: »

Plus the bus stops on Grafton Street, O'Connell Street (Easons), Marlborough Street, Hawkins Street and College Street are all shown on the EIS as having to be "relocated".

Relocated where I have to ask?

Don't know about all stops. Suspect Marlborough Street terminus would be relocated to Sean Macdermott St, looping down O'Connell St. and onto Eden Quay for first stops as that's about the only accessible route from Fairview.

Rhetorical question really though as with a 2015 start date this project is as dead in the water as Metro North and Dart Underground.

strassenwo!f

I wonder what will be the busiest stop on the BXD line Any ideas?

LaFlammeRouge

No mention of initial preparation work for Metro North included in the Luas BXD project.


I'm convinced the Luas BXD won't go ahead. Afterall, why is the RPA charged with looking into busways now.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Aard

Stupid question maybe, but will BXD have the tracks set "metro distance" apart à la the Green line? I don't see why the Broadstone alignment couldn't become metro at some point in the future: grade-separated with the potential of going through Finglas.

murphaph

BXD would be very useful for many people (in the absence of MN) but if building it kills MN (by effectively preventing the station boxes from being constructed at O'Connell Bridge etc.) then it should be shelved as well and a PROPER QBC built in its place at least until after MN is (if ever) built.

BXD is not important enough to permanently block construction of MN (and indeed DU at the Green), though it would benefit me in a way as a property owner in Clonsilla. The real question is, will Ireland ever have the gumption to build MN and DU?

Politicians generally try as hard as possible to strangle the Goose that lays the golden eggs (Dublin, though perhaps the eggs are only silver at the moment). They rely on Dublin generated tax revenues to buy votes just about everywhere else except Dublin. Dubliners (I mean greater Dublin) should really push for greater autonomy for the Mid East region, something might actually get built that way.

The current situation whereby Dublin infrastructure is always viewed as this or that "vanity project" comes from the current political setup IMO.

Telchak

What's the likelihood that the reason BXD isn't going ahead until 2015 is that An Bord Pleanala are going to add conditions to the permission to ensure the Metro north station boxes are built at Stephen's Green and O'Connell Bridge? The decision for permission couldn't be that far off, so is it conceivable that they gave the Department of Transport a heads up?

strassenwo!f

Telchak wrote: »

What's the likelihood that the reason BXD isn't going ahead until 2015 is that An Bord Pleanala are going to add conditions to the permission to ensure the Metro north station boxes are built at Stephen's Green and O'Connell Bridge? The decision for permission couldn't be that far off, so is it conceivable that they gave the Department of Transport a heads up?

You mean that the three station boxes would be built before the LUAS? I suppose it's possible.

trellheim

doubt it, that's SSG a complete building site for 5-10 years isn't it

BrianD

Aard wrote: »

Stupid question maybe, but will BXD have the tracks set "metro distance" apart à la the Green line? I don't see why the Broadstone alignment couldn't become metro at some point in the future: grade-separated with the potential of going through Finglas.

Not much point if it goes on street after Broadstone. It's like the Green line - just happens to be "metro distance" with no actual purpose. Probably a best practice thing - build it in to cover all eventualities.

Always been curious about this one - does anybody know the track spacings on the Red line where it runs off street e.g. Red Cow towards Tallaght alongside the M50?

The complications with the MN are a bit of a challenge for this project. Let's say the line is put in and then MN comes along. Would it still be feasible to run run trams on the unaffected northern sections say Broombridge to O'Connell St (or Marlborough St.) for the duration of the works and then reinstate the full line in time.

Victor

Broombridge will only have basic mainteance facilities, trams would need to get to a depot at least weekly. That would be possible if a connection with the Red Line was maintained.

spacetweek

Why do you guys think BXD would cause problems for the station boxes at O'Connell Bridge? BXD is only a single-track railway at that point. Hardly right up in MN's face.

spacetweek

Oh and 2015 as the start date? I *hope* that's a typo. Ridic.

Victor

Proposed new Broombridge Luas vehicle.



Someone I know was persistently confusing "BDX" and "BXD".

AngryLips

What was the RPA's timeframe to delivery of BXD before the Government came along and announced that it was still going ahead with an operation date of 2015?

BrianD

Victor wrote: »

Proposed new Broombridge Luas vehicle.



Someone I know was persistently confusing "BDX" and "BXD".

Sure? the gauge doesn't look right! It should be a .50 calibre gun in the turret

BrianD

Victor wrote: »

Broombridge will only have basic mainteance facilities, trams would need to get to a depot at least weekly. That would be possible if a conttection with the Red Line was maintained.

How will the red line be affected during construction? Also why do they need a facility at Broombridge when there's one at Sandyford?

In terms of disruption, if O'connell St was out of use could they route trams via Marlborough St even if it was a single line? Not a great solution but would provide means to an end.