Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 9:06pm

chooochooo wrote: »

Are you saying he's a nut 'cos he's obsessed with conspiracy theories?

To me, its just a desperate attempt to try win the argument into their favour. Whether I believe in conspiracy theories is irrelevant on this issue. All points I've made have nothing to do with conspiracies.

monument · 12-01-2013 9:14pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

To me, its just a desperate attempt to try win the argument into their favour. Whether I believe in conspiracy theories is irrelevant on this issue. All points I've made have nothing to do with conspiracies.

It become relevant when you come up with conspiracy theories about the subject at hand, like this:

Aquarius34 wrote: »

It's almost like I have a picture in my head that every planner and TD in Dublin who made this "graph" has a Luas line going by their house to make them all happy and that it looks good to them, meanwhile the f**K the rest of the city "I have my train and Luas by my house now"

The stuff of conspiracy theories, nothing more.

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 9:24pm

monument wrote: »

It become relevant when you're the one who comes up with conspiracies about the subject at hand, like this:

When Brian Cowen became Taoiseach, within weeks, the Tullamore bypass got fast tracked,built and opened within his time as leader of our country Tullamore already had an inner relief road built over a decade ago. Brian Cowen lives in Tullamore. This is just one example of bad planning and Politicians messing about. In Ireland we don't set priorities on projects. We set our goals, on what is cheap, least hassle and what suits the cronies in the Dail. That is not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are run in this country.

When you see statements read on this thread about mooting the Bray Luas line and then yet again ignoring more prompting projects like the Dart interconnecter, one would have to ask, why are the most needed projects left on the back burner all the time?

It's called procrastination, irresponsible planning and lack of action on what need's to be done. Most people on this thread seem to agree, that the Bray line is not needed and it definitely does not need to ahead over more needed schemes that are listed above.

etchyed · 12-01-2013 9:43pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

When you see statements read on this thread about mooting the Bray Luas line and then yet again ignoring more prompting projects like the Dart interconnecter, one would have to ask, why are the most needed projects left on the back burner all the time?

You have already been told that the DART interconnector and Metro North have always had priority over smaller Luas projects.

BXD is now going ahead as there simply isn't the money available to build the two aforementioned large-scale projects. Evidently it has been established to have a good return on investment, but crucially it needs a lot less investment than MN or DU.

It's called procrastination, irresponsible planning and lack of action on what need's to be done. Most people on this thread seem to agree, that the Bray line is not needed and it definitely does not need to ahead over more needed schemes that are listed above.

Starting a sentence with "it's called" does not make your argument an intelligent one. In case you haven't noticed, the rest of us posting in this thread know a lot more about this than you do. You'd do well to educate yourself before using such patronising language.

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 9:56pm

etchyed wrote: »

Starting a sentence with "it's called" does not make your argument an intelligent one. In case you haven't noticed, the rest of us posting in this thread know a lot more about this than you do. You'd do well to educate yourself before using such patronising language.

This nonsense has been going on for decades, It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to figure this all out or what need's to be done. To be quite frank, I am sick and tired of this bull****. The proposed diagram plan is woefully horrid. To say on a thread that you are more intelligent than someone else, doesn't make you sound intelligent either. Anyone who mentions things like that sounds a little threatened when they mention such comments

There is funding, Why is there countless cities in Europe now with Metros and state of the art public transport system's. Yet, after 40 years of "Planning" nothing has been done?

The only schemes on that graph that are actually worth taking off the diagrams and mooting is the Metro North, Dart Inter connector and a metro west (grade separated) I feel, the rest needs to go back to the drawing board.

monument · 12-01-2013 10:18pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

When Brian Cowen became Taoiseach, within weeks, the Tullamore bypass got fast tracked,built and opened within his time as leader of our country Tullamore already had an inner relief road built over a decade ago. Brian Cowen lives in Tullamore. This is just one example of bad planning and Politicians messing about. In Ireland we don't set priorities on projects. We set our goals, on what is cheap, least hassle and what suits the cronies in the Dail. That is not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are run in this country.

I'd agree that's not conspiracy. It's well established that most Taoiseach and ministers push for projects for their areas -- and often this is wrong.

But the problem here is this has zero to do with my post about your conspiracy nonsense on how "every planner and TD in Dublin who made this 'graph' has a Luas line going by their house to make them all happy"/

Aquarius34 wrote: »

When you see statements read on this thread about mooting the Bray Luas line and then yet again ignoring more prompting projects like the Dart interconnecter, one would have to ask, why are the most needed projects left on the back burner all the time?

It's called procrastination, irresponsible planning and lack of action on what need's to be done. Most people on this thread seem to agree, that the Bray line is not needed and it definitely does not need to ahead over more needed schemes that are listed above

Nobody is saying that Luas to Bray should be built before Dart Undergorund. Not a single person and you've yet to point out where you at getting this idea from.

You're jumping to conclusions. You're adding two and two together and getting 500.

etchyed · 12-01-2013 10:19pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

This nonsense has been going on for decades, It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to figure this all out or what need's to be done.

Actually, it's immensely complex. You just don't realise it.

To be quite frank, I am sick and tired of this bull****. The proposed diagram plan is woefully horrid.

What does "woefully horrid" even mean?

To say on a thread that you are more intelligent than someone else, doesn't make you sound intelligent either. Anyone who mentions things like that sounds a little threatened when they mention such comments

I did not say I was more intelligent than you, merely that I was better informed. Believe me, threatened is the last word I would use to describe my feelings towards your posts.

There is funding,

Not at the moment, there isn't.

Why is there countless cities in Europe now with Metros and state of the art public transport system's. Yet, after 40 years of "Planning" nothing has been done?

Many, many reasons. I agree with you that it's a disgrace. Read some of DWCommuter's posts here, but make sure you don't take all of them as gospel.

The only schemes on that graph that are actually worth taking off the diagrams and mooting is the Metro North, Dart Inter connector and a metro west (grade separated) I feel, the rest needs to go back to the drawing board.

What you "feel" is neither here nor there. Your continuing failure to acknowledge that Dublin's rail plans are not all a disgraceful fudge dreamt up by corrupt politicians makes your opinion pretty irrelevant.

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 10:26pm

monument wrote: »

I'd agree that's not conspiracy. It's well established that most Taoiseach and ministers push for projects for their areas -- and often this is wrong.

But the problem here is this has zero to do with my post about your conspiracy nonsense on how "every planner and TD in Dublin who made this 'graph' has a Luas line going by their house to make them all happy"/

I just made one example of such, so you've admitted you're wrong that it's a conspiracy. I could list endless more. So therefore, this type of carry on is not a conspiracy and if you look over the course of many projects in our history especially in the transport department you will find this farcical planning over and over again. It has got to stop! This is exactly why most needed projects or relevant schemes never seem to move from the drawing board into real life.

Nobody is saying that Luas to Bray should be built before Dart Undergorund. Not a single person and you've yet to point out where you at getting this idea from.

You're jumping to conclusions. You're adding two and two together and getting 500.

After 40 years of this "talking" I seriously hope you're not assuming I am jumping to conclusions. I have had simply enough of this silly dallying about with planning matters. Spare my short impatience and actually give me any signs that the Dart Underground would go ahead before the Bray line. Are we ever going to set our priorities right in this country.

I don't think you can actually answer me straight on that.

etchyed · 12-01-2013 10:34pm

Put it this way, Aquarius. Apparently, you had never seen that proposed rail map of Dublin before yesterday evening. You didn't know, until I told you, that the organisation responsible for transport planning in Dublin is the NTA. Ever heard of the DTO (its predecessor)? Of A Platform for Change? Thought not. You don't know the history of, or reasons for, any of the proposed projects contained within that map. Yet you feel yourself qualified, in one broad sweep, to dismiss them and say that the planners should go "back to the drawing board".

Do you really not see any problem with this? If not, this will be my last post addressing you, as you really don't seem to be worth engaging with.

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 10:40pm

etchyed wrote: »

Put it this way, Aquarius. Apparently, you had never seen that proposed rail map of Dublin before yesterday evening. You didn't know, until I told you, that the organisation responsible for transport planning in Dublin is the NTA. Ever heard of the DTO (its predecessor)? Of A Platform for Change? Thought not. You don't know the history of, or reasons for, any of the proposed projects contained within that map. Yet you feel yourself qualified, in one broad sweep, to dismiss them and say that the planners should go "back to the drawing board".

Do you really not see any problem with this? If not, this will be my last post addressing you, as you really don't seem to be worth engaging with.

Yes I have heard of them all, what is your point?

monument · 12-01-2013 10:45pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

After 40 years of this "talking" I seriously hope you're not assuming I am jumping to conclusions. I have had simply enough of this silly dallying about with planning matters. Spare my short impatience and actually give me any signs that the Dart Underground would go ahead before the Bray line. Are we ever going to set our priorities right in this country.

I don't think you can actually answer me straight on that.

Dart Underground has full planning permission, while Luas to Bray has not even gone into planning stage and won't for some time.

Luas to Bray depends on "substantial non-exchequer funding, including supplementary development contribution schemes". Meanwhile, Dart Underground has one of the highest benefit–cost ratio is the least likely project to be revised.

Aquarius34 · 12-01-2013 11:25pm

monument wrote: »

Dart Underground has full planning permission, while Luas to Bray has not even gone into planning stage and won't for some time.

Luas to Bray depends on "substantial non-exchequer funding, including supplementary development contribution schemes". Meanwhile, Dart Underground has one of the highest benefit–cost ratio is the least likely project to be revised.

How many more decades is this going to wait for?

strassenwo!f · 13-01-2013 12:11pm

monument wrote: »

Luas to Bray depends on "substantial non-exchequer funding, including supplementary development contribution schemes". Meanwhile, Dart Underground has one of the highest benefit–cost ratio is the least likely project to be revised.

Connection to the LUAS was the reason given in the original plans for a St. Stephen's Green station on the DART Underground project.

Now that the LUAS BXD line has been given the go-ahead, and the interconnector and metro plans have been put on hold, one would hope that those original plans are being given renewed consideration.

LXFlyer · 13-01-2013 1:39pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

How many more decades is this going to wait for?

Until the country is no longer bankrupt and can stand on its own two feet again.

LXFlyer · 13-01-2013 2:25pm

Proposed traffic arrangements for St Stephen's Green:

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/MajorTransportProjects/Pages/ProposedTrafficManagementworksonSaintStephensGreenEastandSaintStephensGreenNorthDublin2.aspx

Aquarius34 · 13-01-2013 5:45pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Until the country is no longer bankrupt and can stand on its own two feet again.

Another excuse.

monument · 13-01-2013 5:47pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Another excuse.

I'm sure this sums up your response for most people:

:rolleyes:

LXFlyer · 13-01-2013 7:07pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Another excuse.

I think that you will find that I am a fully paid up supporter of both projects, but I'm also a realist.

We don't (as a nation) have the funds to build either project right now, and if you think otherwise, then you really are living in dreamland.

Aquarius34 · 13-01-2013 8:35pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that you will find that I am a fully paid up supporter of both projects, but I'm also a realist.

We don't (as a nation) have the funds to build either project right now, and if you think otherwise, then you really are living in dreamland.

We never seem to do. But politicians are the highest paid and we are probably the most corrupt country in Europe if not the world at this rate. You'd have to wonder where all the "Celtic tiger money" went. Where did all the tax money we got from the huge influx of foreign nationals over the years. We had a huge rise in our population in recent years. A massive serge in the labour work force. Yet there is a lot of money going missing, if people are going to sit here and state "funds are not available" That's another lie I am not falling for...

The point is, these schemes are nothing new, and every election they talk about building these projects but never actually get around to doing it.

Irish and Proud · 13-01-2013 9:58pm

Well if the rich started making a fair contribution to this country and forwent their tax breaks etc, it would be a start. If I was running this country, the Dart Underground and Luas BxD would go ahead by Hook or by Crook. If that means sacking most senior civil servants (in bodies like the HSE etc) with no compensation other than a basic pension (by means of a constitutional referendum) then so be it. If is means stopping all grants to big business and farming etc, then so be it. To put it simply, I'd be ruthless in the way I'd get the funding to get the underground line built - it's a disgrace that Dublin has no underground at this stage.

Aquarius34 · 13-01-2013 10:42pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Well if the rich started making a fair contribution to this country and forwent their tax breaks etc, it would be a start. If I was running this country, the Dart Underground and Luas BxD would go ahead by Hook or by Crook. If that means sacking most senior civil servants (in bodies like the HSE etc) with no compensation other than a basic pension (by means of a constitutional referendum) then so be it. If is means stopping all grants to big business and farming etc, then so be it. To put it simply, I'd be ruthless in the way I'd get the funding to get the underground line built - it's a disgrace that Dublin has no underground at this stage.

I got an infraction, for stating this point. They should all be fired on the spot. I'd completely overhaul Dublin city council, government buildings and the Dail. This country is a mess! There is just simply no excuse for it. A few years ago it was stated, we were one of the richest nations on the planet. We had money seeming out of every bank and pocket in this country. Where the hell did it go?

Where is all the money?
Where are all the promises on the schemes that were supposed to be built decades ago? I'd like to ask a straight question is the Dart underground ever going to be built. I really would like yes nor no response because I think I am wasting my time talking about this if it's not going to go ahead. I don't see point in seeing the plans anymore. I am sick of all this silly dallying about.

I do however understand the fact that not everything is going to get done and thing's take time but feck all is getting done. Every other city in Europe has a decent transport system. Cities in Eastern Europe are now ahead of us. How many decades have we been talking about building a metro? How many more decades in this crap going to continue?. For the last few elections we have seen countless plans on what schemes were going to get done. It's like trying to get water out of a dry tap at this rate...

The Idyl Race · 14-01-2013 12:54am

monument wrote: »

I'm sure this sums up your response for most people:

:rolleyes:

Killer argument, dude *high fives*

Victor · 14-01-2013 6:31am

On-topic, constructive posts only please.

Moderator

MICKEYG · 14-01-2013 9:27am

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Well if the rich started making a fair contribution to this country and forwent their tax breaks etc, it would be a start. If I was running this country, the Dart Underground and Luas BxD would go ahead by Hook or by Crook. If that means sacking most senior civil servants (in bodies like the HSE etc) with no compensation other than a basic pension (by means of a constitutional referendum) then so be it. If is means stopping all grants to big business and farming etc, then so be it. To put it simply, I'd be ruthless in the way I'd get the funding to get the underground line built - it's a disgrace that Dublin has no underground at this stage.

Who do you consider rich?

nowecant · 14-01-2013 12:58pm

Seriously lads... I just wasted my time reading all of that.

In actual Luas news i think there is some activity in the old rail cut under the Navan Road

FreudianSlippers · 14-01-2013 2:25pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that you will find that I am a fully paid up supporter of both projects, but I'm also a realist.

We don't (as a nation) have the funds to build either project right now, and if you think otherwise, then you really are living in dreamland.

In fairness we have never really asked the EU for the full loan amount. It was always a PPP project. I think they'd be forthcoming for the metro north project at least as it would stimulate the economy.

richiek83 · 14-01-2013 8:25pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I got an infraction, for stating this point. They should all be fired on the spot. I'd completely overhaul Dublin city council, government buildings and the Dail. This country is a mess! There is just simply no excuse for it. A few years ago it was stated, we were one of the richest nations on the planet. We had money seeming out of every bank and pocket in this country. Where the hell did it go?

Where is all the money?
Where are all the promises on the schemes that were supposed to be built decades ago? I'd like to ask a straight question is the Dart underground ever going to be built. I really would like yes nor no response because I think I am wasting my time talking about this if it's not going to go ahead. I don't see point in seeing the plans anymore. I am sick of all this silly dallying about.

I do however understand the fact that not everything is going to get done and thing's take time but feck all is getting done. Every other city in Europe has a decent transport system. Cities in Eastern Europe are now ahead of us. How many decades have we been talking about building a metro? How many more decades in this crap going to continue?. For the last few elections we have seen countless plans on what schemes were going to get done. It's like trying to get water out of a dry tap at this rate...

Metro North and DU will be built. Both have full planning approval and are part of the
NTA's 2030 Vision plan. They are critical to the long term development of Dublin. Congestion charging in the city can only be proposed implemented when these along with other projects are implemented. Possibly 20 years when both will be done in my opinion

Aquarius34 · 14-01-2013 10:41pm

richiek83 wrote: »

Metro North and DU will be built. Both have full planning approval and are part of the
NTA's 2030 Vision plan. They are critical to the long term development of Dublin. Congestion charging in the city can only be proposed implemented when these along with other projects are implemented. Possibly 20 years when both will be done in my opinion

Congestion charging lol...:pac: They can get lost.

AngryLips · 15-01-2013 10:07am

It will be interesting to see which of the Celtic Tiger projects that have yet to see allocated funding will never see the light of day. My money would be on Metro West and the Luas extension to Bray as being definitely out of the question. Metro North not very likely. I reckon Dart Underground, Dart Airport and Luas Line F all stand a better chance of going ahead.

foggy_lad · 15-01-2013 12:30pm

AngryLips wrote: »

It will be interesting to see which of the Celtic Tiger projects that have yet to see allocated funding will never see the light of day. My money would be on Metro West and the Luas extension to Bray as being definitely out of the question. Metro North not very likely. I reckon Dart Underground, Dart Airport and Luas Line F all stand a better chance of going ahead.

There will be no dart underground or airport dart, they were all bertie pipe dreams when they were all smoking the whacky baccy in the Dail bar. Rail to Navan and the Luas to Broombridge is all we can expect our German overlords to pay for.

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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