Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

SpaceTime

Ren2k7 wrote: »

It's backwards attitudes like that which results in three half arsed grounds being developed instead of one superb, high class venue.

It's also why we can't have anything nice in Ireland. Umpteen vested interests scatter the resources to the four winds and ensure absolute mediocrity and poor facilities that are almost unsustainable.

namloc1980

Ren2k7 wrote: »

And yet the Munster GAA are building one anyway. Funny that. Do I need to remind you of attendances for Munster draws? Over 30,000 squeezed into Fitzgerald Stadium yesterday in the lashing rain to watch Cork play Kerry in the Munster final.



Large GAA facilities also play host to small fixtures and yet no one suggests moving such games to smaller grounds.



It's never a problem in many other countries who share grounds with different codes. On the continent it's common for soccer to be played in stadia with athletic tracks:


Olympiastadion, Berlin


Stadio Olimpico, Rome

Again multi-use sports stadia are quite common across the world and make sense financially.

I meant Cork City FC would never use such a stadium. And athletics tracks around pitches are pretty rubbish. The pitch is miles away. Anyone who went to one of the ireland soccer games in croke park will know how lost the soccer pitch was on it.

KCAccidental

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Large GAA facilities also play host to small fixtures and yet no one suggests moving such games to smaller grounds.

ehhh Pairc ui Rinn? Parnell Park?

Again multi-use sports stadia are quite common across the world and make sense financially.

In Italy AC Milan, Roma and Juventus have moved or are planning to move from municipal stadiums

Bayern Munich left the Olympiastadion for a football centric stadium

Espanyol left the Olympic stadium in Barcelona for their own stadium

the trend is moving away from catch all stadia.

KCAccidental

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's also why we can't have anything nice in Ireland. Umpteen vested interests scatter the resources to the four winds and ensure absolute mediocrity and poor facilities that are almost unsustainable.

again, have you ever actually been to Turners' Cross?

SpaceTime

KCAccidental wrote: »

again, have you ever actually been to Turners' Cross?

Yes and it's extremely mediocre.

KCAccidental

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yes and it's extremely mediocre.

an 8,000 all seated stadium with transport links and close to the city centre for a League of Ireland team is extremely mediocre??

seeing 4,000 people in a 40,000 seater stadium on the other hand...

SpaceTime

Compared to what they have on the continent in equivalent sized cities, yes they're exceptionally mediocre and more what you'd expect to see in a small town.

KCAccidental

SpaceTime wrote: »

Compared to what they have on the continent in equivalent sized cities, yes they're exceptionally mediocre and more what you'd expect to see in a small town.

any examples?

namloc1980

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yes and it's extremely mediocre.

What type of stadium would you expect a semi pro team to be playing in? And what exactly is a non mediocre stadium?

SpaceTime

Honestly ! Couldn't give a hoot anymore.

I've actually given up on the place this year.

Subpopulus

I think Turners Cross suits City just fine. It's a c.8000 capacity all-seater stadium, with the action close to the pitch - great atmosphere on match nights, and it's considered perhaps the best ground in the LoI. City have, AFAIK, the highest average attendance for any LoI club, something like 4000 people on average. It's a small semi-pro team, who'd be completely lost in a 40,000 seater stadium on a too-large pitch. Remember Limerick playing in Thomond Park? - few hundred people at games in a 26,000 seater stadium. Looked awful.

I also don't understand who'll play in this municipal stadium apart from the GAA teams. Munster Rugby are quite happy at Thomond, which is their spiritual home, and would be under-utilised if they started playing more big games in Cork.

j8wk2feszrnpao

TINA1984 wrote: »

Fancy that, a stadium in a small town over an hour away from any major population centre doesn't sell out.

It was one example. And it used to be a sellout for a single game, double headers now struggle.
PUC and the Gaelic Grounds haven't been selling out for some time.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Ren2k7 wrote: »

The issue of "atmosphere" is a red herring.

No it's not.

Ren2k7 wrote: »

For smaller matches Munster can continue playing at Thomond while for games with larger attendances like European matches they can play in a multi-use PUC.

Currently struggling to fill a 25k stadium. A 40k stadium makes no sense (unless it was a semi-final).

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Besides which would you rather; sit in a comfortable, covered all seater with modern facilities or one of three cold, damp, ****ty stadia that looks like something from the third world? I know which one I'd choose.

I'd prefer a packed Turners Cross or Musgrave than a soulless 40k with 5-10k in there.

KCAccidental

Ren2k7 wrote: »

The issue of "atmosphere" is a red herring. For smaller matches Munster can continue playing at Thomond while for games with larger attendances like European matches they can play in a multi-use PUC. This is no different than what Leinster does where it typically uses the RDS but larger matches at the Aviva.

That wouldn't happen anyways since the money invested by the Munster RFU in developing Thomond needs to be recouped by games and concerts held there. There is no way in a million years Munster would pay rent in using PUC when Thomond actually belongs to them and debts on development need to be paid back.

Ren2k7

Aye, dead on lads. You stick with yer poky dumps. At least you have "atmosphere", whatever the feck that is. Is it any wonder the League of Ireland is moribund and in the gutter?

KCAccidental

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Aye, dead on lads. You stick with yer poky dumps. At least you have "atmosphere", whatever the feck that is. Is it any wonder the League of Ireland is moribund and in the gutter?

and you think the LOI would be improved by having 4,000 fans in 40,000 seat stadium? It would kill it

this



or this?



I know which I'd prefer and which is a better advert for the league.

if you actually went to matches you would know what 'atmosphere' is about.

CHealy

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Aye, dead on lads. You stick with yer poky dumps. At least you have "atmosphere", whatever the feck that is. Is it any wonder the League of Ireland is moribund and in the gutter?

You havn't a clue pal.

namloc1980

Yup this is what the LoI should strive for...large empty stadiums.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Aye, dead on lads. You stick with yer poky dumps. At least you have "atmosphere", whatever the feck that is. Is it any wonder the League of Ireland is moribund and in the gutter?

I'm not the biggest LOI fan, but I like to attend the odd game as I enjoy live football and Turners Cross can be great on big match nights. Cork City do not need to play in a 40k stadium with 5-6k people in attendance.

But given that you seem to dislike the LOI and don't seem to understand what 'atmosphere' is, then it's a fair assumption that you don't attend sporting events; and therefore in a very poor position to speak with knowledge on this subject.

j8wk2feszrnpao

SpaceTime wrote: »

Compared to what they have on the continent in equivalent sized cities, yes they're exceptionally mediocre and more what you'd expect to see in a small town.

You made the above statement and were asked to provide examples. And yet you cower away.

Perhaps you are correct in your assertions, but when you take flight as soon as you're asked specifics, you look silly. I mean, you were only asked to expand on your statement, nothing else.

leahyl

Ok guys, let's move on from this discussion please, this thread is for discussing the redevelopment of Pairc Ui Chaoimh so let's keep it that way.

namloc1980

According to some sources on the twitter machine the Uncovered Stand is being fully demolished and rebuilt as it was structurally unsound and wouldn't have safely taken the roof from the Covered Stand. The original plan was to only demolish the bottom third or so. No idea if they actually sought permission for this change though. Also additional costs! Who'll pay for that?

Red Nissan

D'Agger

namloc1980 wrote: »

According to some sources on the twitter machine the Uncovered Stand is being fully demolished and rebuilt as it was structurally unsound and wouldn't have safely taken the roof from the Covered Stand. The original plan was to only demolish the bottom third or so. No idea if they actually sought permission for this change though. Also additional costs! Who'll pay for that?

Cool, hopefully they had planning for it, you'd imagine if it was declared not sound then there would be grounds for a change to planning & it was granted.

I'd hate to see this delayed even further

Sounds Dreamy

Are the GAA currently in the process of submitting a fresh planning application as this wasn't in the original planning application.
Is rebuilding the north stand included in the main contract currently out to tender
Is the 1 pitch centre of excellence included in the main contract or has it been excluded to mask overruns on the project. The demolition contract has already been separated out from the main contract. Then you have issues like this

"Páirc Uí Chaoimh – Stadium Redevelopment

Jun 26, 2015



Byrne Looby have recently been engaged by the piling contractor, PJ Edwards & Co. Limited, to complete the detailed design of the foundation piles for Phase 1 of the Páirc Uí Chaoimh redevelopment in Cork. The initial phase, which is currently underway, involves the installation of over 600 foundation piles for the construction of the new south stand at the famous Cork venue. When completed the stadium capacity shall be boosted to 45,000, with many more playing and training facilities to be provided in addition to the increased capacity.

The stadium is located on the south banks of the River Lee to the east of Cork city centre. The site is situated in an area of reclaimed mud flats in the Lee Estuary. Substantial geotechnical investigations were completed in the lead up to the tendering process, with some exploratory boreholes extended to depths of up 52m below ground level without encountering bedrock. Given the reclaimed nature of the site, difficult ground conditions have been highlighted in the site investigation with significant depths of soft and loose alluvial and estuarine deposits overlying more competent glaciofluvial materials at depth.

Byrne Looby assisted PJ Edwards during the tendering process, completing a tender design which identified some significant design and construction related risks.
Following the successful tendering process, Byrne Looby have designed a round of preliminary pile load testing to validate the design assumptions made at tender stage. This preliminary pile load testing is currently underway with the first results expected in the coming days, at which stage the detailed design shall commence."


This is already a €100m contract and that's without the 1 pitch "centre of excellence". Add to this the delays in getting the €30m in funding from dept public expenditure.

Douglas Eegit

Not being demolished due to it being unsound. Other reasons here that i can't exactly remember but the entire north stand will not be removed, only partial removal.

South Stand development will commence today. Onwards and upwards PUC

KCAccidental

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Not being demolished due to it being unsound. Other reasons here that i can't exactly remember but the entire north stand will not be removed, only partial removal.

South Stand development will commence today. Onwards and upwards PUC

that has still deviated from the published demolition plan though.

Douglas Eegit

KCAccidental wrote: »

that has still deviated from the published demolition plan though.

Correct. Never said otherwise?
There was originally zero demolition due to take place on North Terrace.

namloc1980

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Correct. Never said otherwise?
There was originally zero demolition due to take place on North Terrace.

No. The bottom third was to be demolished all the way around with the Covered Stand to be demolished in full. Now large sections of the Uncovered Stand are being demolished.

Douglas Eegit

namloc1980 wrote: »

No. The bottom third was to be demolished all the way around with the Covered Stand to be demolished in full. Now large sections of the Uncovered Stand are being demolished.

Stand Corrected. get it?!!

Middle third of the north terrace remains. Only the upper two thirds and not the bottom third.

This is down for review though and subject to change. ie, it could happen that the entire north terrace will be demolished