Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Cpt_Blackbeard

danthefan wrote: »

Or how about we just start Reddan and Sexton, by a country mile the best halfbacks available. Just saying like.

Perfectly fine with that but, if Kidney picks the same team again we'll see the usual quota of whinging and crying from posters on here because their favourites weren't selected.

Everyone advocates change and rotation until it becomes apparent that one of their favourites is going to miss out.

Cpt_Blackbeard

smurphy29 wrote: »

Picking our tactical kicking out half for a game where were probably going to be under serious pressure in the lineout, without a recognised middle-jumper and lineout caller, and maybe our first choice hooker would make no sense. None at all. Come on Captain, surely you can see that. It's not just about maximising the number of your beloved Munstermen you know.

Maybe its more to do with rotating the squad a little and giving the bench players a chance? No, it couldn't possibly be that. :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

smurphy29 wrote: »

Picking our tactical kicking out half for a game where were probably going to be under serious pressure in the lineout, without a recognised middle-jumper and lineout caller, and maybe our first choice hooker would make no sense. None at all. Come on Captain, surely you can see that. It's not just about maximising the number of your beloved Munstermen you know.

Maybe its more to do with rotating the squad a little and giving the bench players a chance? No, it couldn't possibly be that. :rolleyes:

Is TOL a bench player now? Munster and Ireland must share the same bench!

danthefan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Perfectly fine with that but, if Kidney picks the same team again we'll see the usual quota of whinging and crying from posters on here because their favourites weren't selected.

Everyone advocates change and rotation until it becomes apparent that one of their favourites is going to miss out.

Nope, everyone advocates change when Kidney picks his old buddlies ahead of patently better players.

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Perfectly fine with that but, if Kidney picks the same team again we'll see the usual quota of whinging and crying from posters on here because their favourites weren't selected.

Everyone advocates change and rotation until it becomes apparent that one of their favourites is going to miss out.

Rotation is well and good between players at similar levels and where their particular skills suit different games.

There is pretty much zero reason for starting ROG in any 6N game, and all the moreso now that we'll have no lineout to speak of.

irishbucsfan

Has anyone seen the pictures from training? Who was playing 10?

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Perfectly fine with that but, if Kidney picks the same team again we'll see the usual quota of whinging and crying from posters on here because their favourites weren't selected.

Everyone advocates change and rotation until it becomes apparent that one of their favourites is going to miss out.

I would be happy to see Reddan bench for Marshall, but not O'Leary. Can you imagine why?

I would be happy to see POM and Henry start v Scotland and allow SOB or Ferris bench for that. Can you see why?

I'd be happy to see Court start v Scotland with Healy on the bench. Can you see why?

You can't just agenda-ise everything when logical thought can explain everything you think is an agenda.

When the alternative option is not even a stop gap anymore, yet would be selected, it makes no long term nor short term sense.

Try thinking about things. Usually helps.

Cpt_Blackbeard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is TOL a bench player now? Munster and Ireland must share the same bench!

Already explained my reasoning. If ROG starts with Reddan and one of the Scots just breezes through a double tackle by the two of them, I won't say I told you so.

Anyway, I'm going to stop contributing to this LeinsterFans2.0 circlejerk for a little bit. Have fun.

danthefan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Already explained my reasoning. If ROG starts with Reddan and one of the Scots just breezes through a double tackle by the two of them, I won't say I told you so.

Anyway, I'm going to stop contributing to this LeinsterFans2.0 circlejerk for a little bit. Have fun.

Just answer this please: why in the name of jebus should ROG start?

JRant

danthefan wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

9-TOL
10-ROG

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I honestly don't see much wrong with that team selection.

I would just like to register my shock.

I wouldn't like to see it myself at all.

durkadurka

If TOL is preferred to redden its an absolute insult to him.

Cpt_Blackbeard

danthefan wrote: »

Just answer this please: why in the name of jebus should ROG start?

Never once said he should. It is, however, likely that he will. Kidney will have known since the France match was called off who he will be rotating. Those players will probably consist (not necessarily wholly) of Cronin, Court, Ryan, POM, Reddan, ROG and McFadden. Some changes may be forced now though which will throw my prediction off.

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Already explained my reasoning. If ROG starts with Reddan and one of the Scots just breezes through a double tackle by the two of them, I won't say I told you so.

Anyway, I'm going to stop contributing to this LeinsterFans2.0 circlejerk for a little bit. Have fun.

If Reddan and ROG were to play together do you not think someone like Les Kiss might just post them apart for that reason?

Clegg

Playing ROG in a game where we have no recognised lineout organiser would be an utterly moronic decision.

I don't think Kidney would be that foolish. But then again, I didn't think he'd play ROG in the world cup QF either.

GerM

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is pretty much zero reason for starting ROG in any 6N game, and all the moreso now that we'll have no lineout to speak of.

Agreed. This 6N is done and dusted from our perspective. We're not going to get a spot in the top 4 of the IRB rankings barring a massive surprise and we're not going to drop out of the top 8 barring a total disaster. We'll be second seeds for 2015. With that in mind, people like ROG and Darce should be taken out of the equation in the coming games and only used in event of injury. It won't happen but it's how we should approach things. Sexton should be given a prolonged run in the side, finishing out the 6N and starting 2 of the 3 games in NZ. A new 12 should get a start in NZ at least once to see how they manage.

Benny Cake

GerM wrote: »

Agreed. This 6N is done and dusted from our perspective. We're not going to get a spot in the top 4 of the IRB rankings barring a massive surprise and we're not going to drop out of the top 8 barring a total disaster. We'll be second seeds for 2015. With that in mind, people like ROG and Darce should be taken out of the equation in the coming games and only used in event of injury. It won't happen but it's how we should approach things. Sexton should be given a prolonged run in the side, finishing out the 6N and starting 2 of the 3 games in NZ. A new 12 should get a start in NZ at least once to see how they manage.

Would you then advocate a policy that anyone with zero chance of playing in 2015 be axed to serve the greater good? If so the axe would fall on more than ROG & Darcy... BOD, DOC, POC, Reddan, Ross, Best will all be extremely fortunate if they take part in 2015.

Best is 28

I would advocate such a decision based on there not being a chasm in quality to the younger play.

Where one exists, we're gonna need to introduce them slowly.

leftleg

Benny Cake wrote: »

Would you then advocate a policy that anyone with zero chance of playing in 2015 be axed to serve the greater good? If so the axe would fall on more than ROG & Darcy... BOD, DOC, POC, Reddan, Ross, Best will all be extremely fortunate if they take part in 2015.

well after the quarter final defeat to Wales BOD and POC would have both known that they were never going to play in another WC; Ross might though; hes a TH prop; if he has a clock like John Hayes and we have a coach like Deccie he could well be starting TH; Whats your point btw??

Clegg

I think POC could make it to the 2015 world cup. He needs to stay free from serious injury though.

Brad Thorn won a world cup at 37.

Podge_irl

Benny Cake wrote: »

Would you then advocate a policy that anyone with zero chance of playing in 2015 be axed to serve the greater good?.

ROG and D'Arcy are unlikely to be around for Ireland next season, never mind 2015. That's why alternatives should be looked at there.

Benny Cake

leftleg wrote: »

Whats your point btw??

My point is players shouldn't be dropped because they're too old, they should be dropped because they're not good enough. Calling for Darcy to be dropped for Ireland when there is no viable alternative is premature... And before someone suggests Mcfadden, until Schmidt starts him at 12 ahead of Darce for Leinster I wouldnt put him there for Ireland. Kidneys current second choice 12 is Sexton by the way...

Tox56

Benny Cake wrote: »

My point is players shouldn't be dropped because they're too old, they should be dropped because they're not good enough. Calling for Darcy to be dropped for Ireland when there is no viable alternative is premature... And before someone suggests Mcfadden, until Schmidt starts him at 12 ahead of Darce for Leinster I wouldnt put him there for Ireland. Kidneys current second choice 12 is Sexton by the way...

Isn't a problem for DOC.

Benny Cake

Tox56 wrote: »

Isn't a problem for DOC.

An unfortunate anomaly in my otherwise sound argument

JRant

Benny Cake wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

Whats your point btw??

My point is players shouldn't be dropped because they're too old, they should be dropped because they're not good enough. Calling for Darcy to be dropped for Ireland when there is no viable alternative is premature... And before someone suggests Mcfadden, until Schmidt starts him at 12 ahead of Darce for Leinster I wouldnt put him there for Ireland. Kidneys current second choice 12 is Sexton by the way...

I agree, players shouldn't be dropped because of their age. However we need to build a squad and to do that some of the more senior members are gonna need to take a seat every now and again.
DK playing Sexton at 12 is daft, makes no sense at all other than to give ROG another cap.

ironingbored

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Perfectly fine with that but, if Kidney picks the same team again we'll see the usual quota of whinging and crying from posters on here because their favourites weren't selected.

Everyone advocates change and rotation until it becomes apparent that one of their favourites is going to miss out.

People are just bewildered by some of Kidney's selections and rightly so.

1) DOC being in the team/squad before Ryan and Tuohy.
2) TOL being called into the squad before Boss (who objectively has been playing the better rugby over the last 18mths).
3) POM (arguably having a very good season with Munster) parachuted straight into the squad when Henry might have been equally rewarded and the reticence to include Ross and ERC player of the year SOB into the squad.
4) Murray (despite a solid game on Saturday) being given the call when Reddan has arguably played very well with Sexton. No too mention other players being given very few chances to get a run in the team (Jennings, Trimble in the RWC)

leftleg

ironingbored wrote: »

People are just bewildered by some of Kidney's selections and rightly so.

1) DOC being in the team/squad before Ryan and Tuohy.
2) TOL being called into the squad before Boss (who objectively has been playing the better rugby over the last 18mths).
3) POM (arguably having a very good season with Munster) parachuted straight into the squad when Henry might have been equally rewarded and the reticence to include Ross and ERC player of the year SOB into the squad.
4) Murray (despite a solid game on Saturday) being given the call when Reddan has arguably played very well with Sexton. No too mention other players being given very few chances to get a run in the team (Jennings, Trimble in the RWC)

Boss is in NZ for personal reasons at the moment afaik

ironingbored

The team that captain built?:

Healy
Best
Ross
POC
Ryan
Ferris
POM
Coughlan
Murray
ROG
Zebo
McFadden
Earls (C)
Bowe
Jones

Subs:
Court
Cronin
MOD
SOB
Heaslip
TOL
Sexton

RoundBox11

Having never played in the 2nd row im struggling to understand why it'd be so hard for DOC, Ryan or Tuohy to be jumping at 4 rather than at 2 this weekend.... Is it really that hard to move back along the line? I mean guys like Ryan and McCarthy get switched to the tail when they play 6 for their provinces, so why couldnt a playe adjust to the middle? Also why couldn't Heaslip/Ferris call the lineouts similar to how Harinorduquay and Parisse do??


Could someone please answer this for me??

irishbucsfan

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Having never played in the 2nd row im struggling to understand why it'd be so hard for DOC, Ryan or Tuohy to be jumping at 4 rather than at 2 this weekend.... Is it really that hard to move back along the line? I mean guys like Ryan and McCarthy get switched to the tail when they play 6 for their provinces, so why couldnt a playe adjust to the middle? Also why couldn't Heaslip/Ferris call the lineouts similar to how Harinorduquay and Parisse do??


Could someone please answer this for me??

Different type of jumping. Jumping at 2 is all about getting up quick and upper body strength, jumping at 4 is generally about jumping technique and skill. Devin Toner wouldn't be any good at 2 for example because he's too heavy. The tail is completely different again.

And surely its obvious why Heaslip/Ferris couldn't call an international lineout with no experience? (Although I think Heaslip might have a little)

GerM

Benny Cake wrote: »

Would you then advocate a policy that anyone with zero chance of playing in 2015 be axed to serve the greater good? If so the axe would fall on more than ROG & Darcy... BOD, DOC, POC, Reddan, Ross, Best will all be extremely fortunate if they take part in 2015.

No, nothing is that black and white. I'd advocate calling time on players where they are on the wane and their removal from the 22 wouldn't have a significantly negative impact on the starting side. If there are injuries, they can still be called upon but I'd much rather see someone else start their tutelage in the international set up this summer ahead of ROG for a game or two and at least try someone else starting a game at inside centre instead of Darce/Wallace. The same argument applies to DOC. We're not in dire need of development in the other positions nor are the incumbents on the way out anyway through age or lack of form.