Haybob

reilig

I'm a big fan of wilting grass for silage. I like to put the time into it and give grass at least 1 shake out before rowing it up for baling. I find that it reduces the amount of bales that I have and improves the quality of the silage. I also like to make some hay every year, so it is important for me to have a machine that can both shake out and row grass which isn't too expensive and not hard on parts. I currently have an 8 foot disc mower and a pz300 haybob. The disc mower is trouble free and easy to work but the haybob breaks my heart. Its less than 10 years old and when combined it shakes out and rows about 200 acres per year.

The problem with it is that practically every joint on the main frame of it has had to be welded and strengthened - this has been an annual job for me since the first year that I bought it with different joints going each year. At the start of last year i brought it to a professional welder who added strengthening pieces to each joint - it held up perfectly for last year, but yesterday while shaking out heavy silage, the grass divider broke off and this evening I have to bring it back to the local welder again to get this piece of metal welded back on because the steel in it is so thin that my arc welder will not weld it without burning holes in it.

I'm sick and tired with it now and I'm looking for advice. For the reasons outlined above (wilting and hay) I don't want a conditioner mower. Can anyone advise me on an alternative machine that will do the same job as the PZ haybob?? I'm going to have to invest in something for next year and I would like a machine that would both tedd grass and row it up for a baler. I would be interested in buying new or very fresh second hand. I would not be interested in any of the other manufactures that have copied the PZ 300 like Fleming or franzguard. I would also not be interested in the lely alternative (I think its a 300 as well) as i have a neighbour with a 4 year old one and he toouses a lot of welding rods on it. Are there any other alternatives out there???

dryan

I am in a very similar position to yourself. Waiting for the old haybob to pack in altogether some of these days!

Been browsing around the web these past few weeks wondering what is out there that will do the same job a bit better and quicker for me.

I like the look of the Kuhn haybob 360 tedder/rake.

http://www.kuhn.co.uk/uk/whats-new-haybob-back-under-new-ownership.html

video here:

http://www.kuhnnorthamerica.com/us/raketedder-combination-haybob-tedderrake-combination.html

...a bit pricey though!

JohnBoy

What are you powering it with?

I've heard anecdotally that a lot of the problems with them are down to not being designed for todays tractors. I cant really see how it would matter though.


Is it just that they dont make em like they used to?


I remember back in the day my dad used turn hay as fast as the david brown could shift, flat out he used go, broke the world of tines, but nothing else.

Probably the first job I could do mechanically was change haybob tines


Would it be worth investing in an original model and getting it fully rebuilt?

find a good old one and spend the money making it into a new one?

maidhc

The clue is in the name: "hay"

They are awful things to bring near a field of silage, and stopped using them for that purpose once we moved away from 5'6 mowers! Grass wilts just fine after a conditioner mower, and if you have an 8ft you can't leave it down too long or the silage will be too dry from my experience. The bales are awful and lumpy, and you get 100x the amount of blocks.

I have a haybob 300 and one of the original ones. Neither have needed welding, but they are only used on Ford 4000/4600s.

Excellent machines for what they are meant for though.

reilig

Never been used on anything bigger than a MF165 but mostly its used on a MF35.

The haybob rarely breaks tynes - only if you are in rough ground. Wouldn't break more than 2 or 3 any year.

It may be worth looking at getting one rebuild, but the old ones had major issues with springs - even if you fitted them with new reels, they just chewed springs like they were jelly sweets.

The 300 model is a much lighter machine than the old PZ haybob - thjey really aren't putting as much steel into them as they used to.

JohnBoy wrote: »

What are you powering it with?

I've heard anecdotally that a lot of the problems with them are down to not being designed for todays tractors. I cant really see how it would matter though.


Is it just that they dont make em like they used to?


I remember back in the day my dad used turn hay as fast as the david brown could shift, flat out he used go, broke the world of tines, but nothing else.

Probably the first job I could do mechanically was change haybob tines


Would it be worth investing in an original model and getting it fully rebuilt?

find a good old one and spend the money making it into a new one?

JohnBoy

The main hay meadow was very smooth and clean, my aunt used never break tines if she turned it during the day, but when he arrived at half six with 7 acres to turn he always managed to break a few

never remember much issues with springs, but then again it is 20 years ago since we were doing it.

Bitten & Hisses

maidhc wrote: »

The clue is in the name: "hay"

They are awful things to bring near a field of silage, and stopped using them for that purpose once we moved away from 5'6 mowers! Grass wilts just fine after a conditioner mower, and if you have an 8ft you can't leave it down too long or the silage will be too dry from my experience. The bales are awful and lumpy, and you get 100x the amount of blocks.

I have a haybob 300 and one of the original ones. Neither have needed welding, but they are only used on Ford 4000/4600s.

Excellent machines for what they are meant for though.

I'd agree with you Maidhc on this. When we moved away from the 5'6" drum mower, the haybob never went near a crop of silage again. A conditioner mower will allow plenty wilting (in single swarths) if left for a day or two. For hay, you just open up the boards at the back and she spreads out the crop in a good wide swarth. After a day's wilting, drive in with the haybob and you've a super job. My experience is that this approach can get the hay saved a day sooner than cutting with a conventional mower.
The haybob we run is a 15 year old Fransgard RV300. The only welding it ever needed was the plate on the crop divider and the damper where the machine pivots. Otherwise, you're only talking about replacing roll pins, springs and tines.

reilig

maidhc wrote: »

The clue is in the name: "hay"

They are awful things to bring near a field of silage, and stopped using them for that purpose once we moved away from 5'6 mowers! Grass wilts just fine after a conditioner mower, and if you have an 8ft you can't leave it down too long or the silage will be too dry from my experience. The bales are awful and lumpy, and you get 100x the amount of blocks.

I have a haybob 300 and one of the original ones. Neither have needed welding, but they are only used on Ford 4000/4600s.

Excellent machines for what they are meant for though.

I disagree with you on many points. Haybobs are for shaking out grass - they ideally take 2 x 5"6 swarts. But my disc mower does not leave swarts - there's no conditioner or grass board on it so the grass falls in situ, not into rows. The haybob then should have an easier job shaking out grass in situ rather than from the rows of a 5"6 mower or from a conditioner mower for that matter.

Only in weather like this will grass wilt fine in a conditioner row. Its rare that we get weather like this - especially in the last 10 years in ireland. I find that wilting is essential for quality silage. If you want a good DM, your silage can be up to 75% in hay when baling. Wilting reduces the nitrogen levels in your silage and helps it to ferment better. There are a lot of people just mowing and baling up silage without letting it wilt and then just having ordinary silage which has to be supplemented with meal in winter time.

Finally, a haybob will only make lumpy rows and cause blockages in the baler if you go the opposite way over the rows than the direction that you cut it in.
Had an old type haybob myself too, never had to weld it either, but as i outlined above, it would break your heart with springs - that was the whole idea of buying the haybob 300.

Well that's my experience anyway.

Edit: Sorry, I wasn't putting down that way you do things, I just like my own methods and wilting grass is one of them. I'm looking for advice on the type of machine that I need rather than being told that I'm doing it wrong. A lot of machinery companies out there advertise tedders for wilting silage and separate rowers, but I haven't seen any machine that will both row and tedd that is different to the PZ

F.D

seen a few people with lely tedders it will throw grass to the clouds and no lumps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owu5Vt4pFKU i know this is the bigger model in the video, or a modern tedder what ever make it is, there built for spreading grass better than any haybob, dont know if they will all row it back up though i know the lely one does

maidhc

reilig wrote: »

Edit: Sorry, I wasn't putting down that way you do things, I just like my own methods and wilting grass is one of them. I'm looking for advice on the type of machine that I need rather than being told that I'm doing it wrong. A lot of machinery companies out there advertise tedders for wilting silage and separate rowers, but I haven't seen any machine that will both row and tedd that is different to the PZ

Point taken. I disagree completely but that is neither here nor there!!

agrostar

We have an Elho grass conditioner, excellent machine for wilting silage before the baler increasing quality whiles reducing quantity. Needs approx three to four passes to be effective, leaves rows in a perfect 3m swarth for the baler no need to weave like you would have to do to fill the bale after a haybob. We tried to use it for hay once but it wasnt as sucessfull, could of been our own fault or the grass might not of been ideal as it was very green but the grass dried out too much and nearly got burnt off the ground and didnt make great hay. Now when we make hay we use the elho to spread the grass out and then turn it from then on with the haybob we usually swarth in with the Elho. Dont no if this is of any help but it works the best for us at the moment:):)

Colmm23

Rellig,

Check this machine out. I know its Lely but not sure if its the one your neighbour has but I know a few guys that make a lot of hay and would have nothing else.

http://lely.com/en/grassland-machinery/lotus-tedders/lotus-combi.jsp

Colm.

dasheriff

The lely lotus 300 combi is the way to go it is just a newer perfected version of the pz and is superb at tedding the grass..there is a few of these on donedeal at the moment.

Muckit

Did you look anymore Reilig at changing machines?

Have springs and tines to change in our old PZ in the next few weeks, not looking forward to it :mad:

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

Did you look anymore Reilig at changing machines?

Have springs and tines to change in our old PZ in the next few weeks, not looking forward to it :mad:

I took the cheap option I'm afraid - I brought the haybob to a friend who is a welder and he re-welded any joints that were broken and reinforced a few of the pressure points. He only charged me €100. That was in early July last year and she did the rest of the silage without any problems. So I'm thinking about holding onto it for this year at least.

Is your haybob one of the old type pz with the narrow wheels??
My inlaws have 1 and it seems to break a spring for every acre it does. its the most hateful job in the world to be replacing them!!!! Hard labour in shackles and chains would be easier.

The PZ 300 is far more "spring friendly". Ours is at least 15 years old and still has most of its original springs!!

Milton09

reilig wrote: »

Finally, a haybob will only make lumpy rows and cause blockages in the baler if you go the opposite way over the rows than the direction that you cut it in.

Could this be some of the problem as you are only supposed to turn left with the haybob because turning right (i.e direction of mowing on first few runs around field at least) causes the floating release to stroke out and stress the rest of the frame as you turn ?

reilig

Milton09 wrote: »

Could this be some of the problem as you are only supposed to turn left with the haybob because turning right (i.e direction of mowing on first few runs around field at least) causes the floating release to stroke out and stress the rest of the frame as you turn ?

No. I only ever turn left with it. If you were to turn right, you'd strain the sh1te out of it. I put the problems with my haybob down to the quality of metal in it. Its so thin that you can't weld it with an arc welder. The old PZ haybobs were made out of much thicker stuff.

Finally, a haybob will only make lumpy rows and cause blockages in the baler if you go the opposite way over the rows than the direction that you cut it in.

By that I meant going perpindicular rather than parallel to the swarts left by the mower.

Tipp Man

Hi Relig

I think the problem isn't the haybob but the mower. I agree with the poster who said a haybob shouldn't be left near silage.

Get yourself a mower with conditioner, leave the silage in the swarth for a full day to wilt (36 hours) and you will make excellent silage. That's our method and it works. We have made consistantly excellent bales for the last 10 years doing this.

Silage that is in a single swarth doesn't need to be raked and rowed in my opinion and certainly that is a phase that most people in our area have moved away from (unless it gets wet in the swarth)

Then use your haybob for hay and it will last twice as long as it won't be under any pressure

Tora Bora

Tipp Man wrote: »

Hi Relig

I think the problem isn't the haybob but the mower. I agree with the poster who said a haybob shouldn't be left near silage.

Get yourself a mower with conditioner, leave the silage in the swarth for a full day to wilt (36 hours) and you will make excellent silage. That's our method and it works. We have made consistantly excellent bales for the last 10 years doing this.

Silage that is in a single swarth doesn't need to be raked and rowed in my opinion and certainly that is a phase that most people in our area have moved away from (unless it gets wet in the swarth)

Then use your haybob for hay and it will last twice as long as it won't be under any pressure

I agree generally speaking.
I have not been over happy with my silage bales these past few years. Contractor using conditioner mower and throwing two rows of grass into one row, and leaving to wilt for day and a half. I don't think I'm getting a proper wilt.

F.D

Mow out on the flat not in swaths i always get them to open the doors out to the last , and get the contractor who does the baling/pitting to row it up 1/2 a day before baling/pitting this way it gets more time to wilt and the ground dried out a bit as well
even if u do need to give it a lick of a haybob or tedder its easier as the grass is not in a big swath

reilig

Tipp Man wrote: »

Hi Relig

I think the problem isn't the haybob but the mower. I agree with the poster who said a haybob shouldn't be left near silage.

Get yourself a mower with conditioner, leave the silage in the swarth for a full day to wilt (36 hours) and you will make excellent silage. That's our method and it works. We have made consistantly excellent bales for the last 10 years doing this.

Silage that is in a single swarth doesn't need to be raked and rowed in my opinion and certainly that is a phase that most people in our area have moved away from (unless it gets wet in the swarth)

Then use your haybob for hay and it will last twice as long as it won't be under any pressure

I explained in earlier posts on this thread my reasons for wilting grass. Its my method and it works for me and it has worked on our farm since we started making round bales in 1985. The machines cost less to buy. They wilt the grass better than any conditioner mower - meaning that I have less bales and less costs. I can wilt the bales to the dryness that I want them to be - not to the dryness that a conditioner mower allowed them to be. A conditioner mower is not an option.

As I detailed above, the problem is not the mower, its the haybob. The mower does not even make swarts, it allows the grass fall in situ rather than in swarts. Pz marketed their haybobs for tedding and wilting silage so there is no reason why it should not be used for the purpose.

vanderbadger

you see these mesko roll or some brand like that advertised, are they pz haybob copies, are they any good?

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

you see these mesko roll or some brand like that advertised, are they pz haybob copies, are they any good?

Mesko roll are pz copies that are made on Poland. I have looked at them -thought it was no worse than my PZ, but no better either.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

Mesko roll are pz copies that are made on Poland. I have looked at them -thought it was no worse than my PZ, but no better either.

we have a clean enough haybob but i always thought she struggled with any type of heavy crop, that said i reckon the gears must be worn as she is making a creaking noise, i see a few neighbours have lely type haybobs, couldnt say what model but a better machine altogether for shaking i reckon

Tora Bora

reilig wrote: »

I explained in earlier posts on this thread my reasons for wilting grass. Its my method and it works for me and it has worked on our farm since we started making round bales in 1985. The machines cost less to buy. They wilt the grass better than any conditioner mower - meaning that I have less bales and less costs. I can wilt the bales to the dryness that I want them to be - not to the dryness that a conditioner mower allowed them to be. A conditioner mower is not an option.

As I detailed above, the problem is not the mower, its the haybob. The mower does not even make swarts, it allows the grass fall in situ rather than in swarts. Pz marketed their haybobs for tedding and wilting silage so there is no reason why it should not be used for the purpose.

Hard to get fellas to listen around here:D:D:D You need a silage bob, not a hay bob:p:p

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

we have a clean enough haybob but i always thought she struggled with any type of heavy crop, that said i reckon the gears must be worn as she is making a creaking noise, i see a few neighbours have lely type haybobs, couldnt say what model but a better machine altogether for shaking i reckon

Yea, we have a neighbour or 2 with them too - they throw the grass right up in the air and give a nice even spread.

reilig

Tora Bora wrote: »

Hard to get fellas to listen around here:D:D:D You need a silage bob, not a hay bob:p:p

I know

But sure the funny thing is, you mow the grass on day 1. You shake it out on day 2. Its wet/unwilted grass whether you are going to bale it into silage or into hay. Either way its going to be as hard on the haybob. Shaking out hay for the first time is no easier than shaking out silage. Just with hay, you will need to shake it out many more times than silage to have it dry and wilted enough :rolleyes:

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

I explained in earlier posts on this thread my reasons for wilting grass. Its my method and it works for me and it has worked on our farm since we started making round bales in 1985. The machines cost less to buy. They wilt the grass better than any conditioner mower - meaning that I have less bales and less costs. I can wilt the bales to the dryness that I want them to be - not to the dryness that a conditioner mower allowed them to be. A conditioner mower is not an option.

As I detailed above, the problem is not the mower, its the haybob. The mower does not even make swarts, it allows the grass fall in situ rather than in swarts. Pz marketed their haybobs for tedding and wilting silage so there is no reason why it should not be used for the purpose.

Fair enough - every man has his own way of doing things and if its working then thats all that matters

Just to confirm I am all for wilting silage, and as i mentioned we wilt all of ours for 36 hours for exactly the same reasons, quality and reduced quantity. We just don't go throwing it around the field anymore. Having had a small bit of silage mowed last year with a non conditioner mower I can confirm that in our experience the quality of wilting is a fraction of a conditioned mower.

One thing that we did find was the unconditioned swarths (which we then raked together) produced bales which split whilst opening. It was heartache this winter dealing with them. Our contractor has been warned never to use a non conditioner mower or rake again on our place

Tipp Man

Tora Bora wrote: »

I agree generally speaking.
I have not been over happy with my silage bales these past few years. Contractor using conditioner mower and throwing two rows of grass into one row, and leaving to wilt for day and a half. I don't think I'm getting a proper wilt.

Yeah when we were on the pit silage the contractor was throwing 2 (and then 3) rows into 1 and we weren't particularly happy with that silage.

There is just too much grass in a row to dry. However for the past 7 years we are back to single swarths and it is drying well

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

Is your haybob one of the old type pz with the narrow wheels??

Ya she's the old one alright. Put new tires and tubes on her in 08. She was grand til the oul ald went off rowing up with it. Bent tines and broke springs. He wouldn't be the kindest letting down the lift!:D

It's getting out the roll pins that's my biggest headache. They're welded into tine holders with rust!!

Can they be heated to get them out?? Sprayed them with wd40 and used punch but no budge, only grazed knuckles!! :mad::D:mad:

I remember when we bought it (I was just a young lad) it was down to the PZ or the Lely with the metal wheels..... still think we made the wrong choice! :rolleyes: I spent my teenage years changing tines and springs!!

I'd love the new type lely lotus 300. Think they'd be the business. Maybe I'm wrong

Muckit

Tipp Man wrote: »

Yeah when we were on the pit silage the contractor was throwing 2 (and then 3) rows into 1 and we weren't particularly happy with that silage.

There is just too much grass in a row to dry. However for the past 7 years we are back to single swarths and it is drying well

No silage bale contractors near us try and pick up 20' rows. Most only have 9' krones with no swrather.

Usually 10' taarup and john deere have swarthers that do pit silage