Vodafone in talks to ban file-sharers

Butch Cassidy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0616/1224272615990.html

Vodafone in line to join file-sharing clampdown



RONAN McGREEVY

VODAFONE IRELAND is in talks with the record industry to join Eircom in its “three strikes and you’re out” rule for those involved in illegal file-sharing.

The company is the second biggest internet service provider (ISP) in the State with 21 per cent of all fixed broadband connections along with a substantial mobile broadband customer base.

Between them Eircom and Vodafone provide nearly two-thirds of all household broadband connections in the Republic.

A pilot scheme to implement what Eircom also calls the “graduated response protocol” has been under way since last month and about 800 illegal file-sharers have already received a warning.

In an out-of-court settlement last year between the music industry and Eircom, the company agreed to issue three warnings to illegal file-sharers who download music through what are known as peer-to-peer networks.

After a fourth offence, they would find their broadband cut off for a year.

In a statement issued yesterday, Vodafone said it was aware of the Eircom actions and acknowledged that illegal file-sharing represents a “serious issue for the Irish music industry”.

It said it would be looking at “appropriate steps” consistent with “applicable legislation and recent judicial decisions”.

EMI Ireland chief executive Willie Kavanagh said “significant progress” had been made with Vodafone in relation to implementing a solution similar to that which Eircom is using to deter file-sharers.

Vodafone is in negotiation with the Irish Recorded Music Association (Irma) which represents all the major record labels.

Mr Kavanagh, who is also the chairman of Irma, said that any agreement with Vodafone would make Ireland the European leader in terms of dealing with the problem.

Mr Kavanagh confirmed that Irma has engaged former minister for justice Michael McDowell SC in its file-sharing court action against UPC which begins tomorrow in the Commercial Court.

He admitted the Irish record industry has halved in size in the last four years. It had been hoped that last year would see a “bottoming out” of the decline in record sales as a result of illegal downloading. However, record sales were down a further 12 per cent this year.

Aslan sold 11,000 copies of their latest album, but nearly three times that had been downloaded illegally, he said.

Mr Kavanagh warned that there would be no record industry in Ireland within five years unless illegal file-sharing was tackled.

In a statement, Vodafone said it was now looking at providing “easy availability of legal downloads of music” to counteract illegal file-sharing.

It is believed to be looking at a subscription model which would allow customers to both download and stream tracks for a set monthly fee.

In Spain, Vodafone has implemented a successful policy of charging €6 a month for 20 tracks, but the company insists it is too early to say what kind of model it would adapt here.

It just doesn't end does it? Ireland always has to be the "leader" in all this kinda stuff ?! Smoking bans, bank bailouts...

If they're holding up Aslan sales as proof that there'll be no record industry in five years then Kavanagh is correct but for all the wrong reasons.

I don't know what's sadder, that service providers are so quick to ban customers or that nearly 33,000 people actually downloaded an Aslan album.

Duggy747

It's a wonder the Irish industry survived after THIS horror from yesteryear.




*cough*

Jev/N

They've been in "talks" for awhile, so have 02 and 3. They're trying to round up all the ISPs following Eircom. It'll be interesting to see how the case goes tomorrow for UPC!

m@cc@

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

If they're holding up Aslan sales as proof that there'll be no record industry in five years then Kavanagh is correct but for all the wrong reasons.

Aslan sales are proof that whatever high they had reached is long past them when they release an album of cover versions.

Rabies

Aslan sold 11,000 copies of their latest album, but nearly three times that had been downloaded illegally, he said.

How do they know the d/l numbers?

Only noobs use p2p.. Just download like a real man and you won't get cut off.

Edit: I cant wait for the stories about eircom customers being cut off because people are cracking the wep codes and using their network.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0616/1224272615990.html




It just doesn't end does it? Ireland always has to be the "leader" in all this kinda stuff ?! Smoking bans, bank bailouts...

If they're holding up Aslan sales as proof that there'll be no record industry in five years then Kavanagh is correct but for all the wrong reasons.

I'm in favour of all these kinds of bans, because it turns people into creative thinkers, illegal downloading will always be there, nobody gives a fcuk who gets done for it, people will still download, they will just find another way to do it. You cannot control people like this. Ban alcohol, people will brew it at home or buy it elsewhere, ban the headshops, people get high another way, ban file sharing and people will find another way of doing it. I'm happy to see this as these robbing bastards will never win out Cnuts...

jester77

Feck this, this needs to stop at the source... aslan :eek: I think they should just ban the sale of all items that come with any form of speakers, problem solved

MagicMarker

I'd download an Aslan album, just so I can't delete it.

Gummy Panda

Tbh, they're only cracking down because pirating is so accessible.

Even people who can only do the most basic things in windows are downloading torrents or using crap like limewire.

stovelid

Deleted User wrote: »

nearly 33,000 people actually downloaded an Aslan album.

If there were was no Internet, they'd just steal the CD from somewhere so I can't see the problem?

At least nobody gets a syringe stuck in them when it's downloaded illegally.

mp3kid

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

In Spain, Vodafone has implemented a successful policy of charging €6 a month for 20 tracks, but the company insists it is too early to say what kind of model it would adapt here.

A far more expensive one, you can bet.

billymitchell

Jev/N wrote: »

They've been in "talks" for awhile, so have 02 and 3. They're trying to round up all the ISPs following Eircom. It'll be interesting to see how the case goes tomorrow for UPC!

Whats the deal with UPC tomorrow??

tantalum

Anyone know if this detection is based on traffic type & ports used per IP associated with each ISP? Also - how the heck are they differentiating between say, Linux .iso p2p activity and music?

Pandora's Box may be open but doesn't the story say that hope is left in it?

"How can i download you in this crazy world
P2P's alright yeah
Its alright"

sponsoredwalk

LIARS!!!


Irish record industry reports high profits in recession

Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 21:40 Despite continuous claims that online filesharing is killing the music industry, the Irish Times' Cantillon: Inside the world of business column today reports on stable profits being posted by the largest members of IRMA (Irish Recorded Music Association).
EMI Records Ireland, Sony Music Ireland and Universal Music Ireland all reported profits of between €2.1 and €6.2 million in 2008/2009. Despite this, IRMA director general Dick Doyle continues to contest that illegal downloads have caused a 27% loss in music sales in Ireland in the past year - the sole inauspicious factor affecting sales it seems.
The Irish Times article goes on to criticise the industry's online offerings, saying that attractively priced legitimate alternatives to free downloads of dubious quality are needed. While many may possibly disagree with the author's assessment of the relative quality of free downloads, particularly when compared to DRM-encumbered industry downloads, it does rightly point out the deficiencies in the legal alternatives to file-sharing provided by today's record companies.
Perhaps, if Irish record companies were to spend more time providing quality services to genuine music fans, rather than spending their enormous profits taking legitimate Irish ISPs to court - imposing massive costs on already struggling Irish enterprises - online file-sharing would not seem as attractive to so many music fans.
The Irish Times article can be read here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0525/1224271087622.html - Ed Galligan


How could the record industry be dead in 5 years if they are making more money now than back then???

England up 4%

Canadian study finds P2P sharing increases music sales

(Technical version). Here is the shortened version



I think everyone should be downloading illegal music to make a point & to show these people they can not get away with using lies to put stricter rules on internet users...

JJ

Aslan's claims of huge numbers of downloads of their new album is based on dubious stat gathering. They looked at the stats from a few torrent sites and added it all together. Torrent sites are well known for showing fake stats in order to boost their ad revenue. See the following article for more info:

http://dayandnightmag.ie/2009/07/24/aslans-illegal-downloading-minefield

It's possible that the number of downloading the album would be the same number of people in the past who might've made a taped copy of the album for a friend.

onemorechance

billymitchell wrote: »

Whats the deal with UPC tomorrow??

Mr Kavanagh confirmed that Irma has engaged former minister for justice Michael McDowell SC in its file-sharing court action against UPC which begins tomorrow in the Commercial Court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0616/1224272615990.html

ScumLord

Mothafukhas!

Mr Kavanagh warned that there would be no record industry in Ireland within five years unless illegal file-sharing was tackled.

**** off you ****!

Thank you sponsoredwalk for showing the utter bull**** these greedy ****ers spew out.

I'd be sorely tempted to a life of crime stealing cds and dvds on principle, I want to destroy the music industry I think it should be banned in Ireland for being pure unadulterated evil.

Vodafones internet service isn't even worth it, I keep getting disconnected I'm switching back to digiweb once my contract is up.

sponsoredwalk

ScumLord wrote: »

the utter bull**** these greedy ****ers spew out.

I'd be sorely tempted to a life of crime stealing cds and dvds on principle, I want to destroy the music industry I think it should be banned in Ireland for being pure unadulterated evil.

Vodafones internet service isn't even worth it, I keep getting disconnected I'm switching back to digiweb once my contract is up.

I feel like going down to the courts with cardboard signs quoting these and better articles with website links to show them we know wtf they are up to :mad:

Stercus Accidit

There is no legal precedent for this policy yet, it all hinges on UPC and how they do in court, there is no way '3 strikes' is legal.

partyatmygaff

Vodafone have a lot of cheek.

The last thing they need after their atrocious service is to join Eircom in this three strikes rubbish.

Here's hoping UPC get their act together soon.

Royale with Cheese

See ya vodafone. Morons.

sponsoredwalk

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

There is no legal precedent for this policy yet, it all hinges on UPC and how they do in court, there is no way '3 strikes' is legal.

I don't see how this is different to checking your internet history & raiding your e-mail and bank account, 3 strikes - well they had to be watching in order to know of these strikes.

What happens if you accidentally click something or the machines mess up, there's no way people can accept this if it comes into play.

I think people should take steps like those save the internet people did with the net neutrality issues. They were successful in America in getting rid of things before, but we have no similar organizations & if they pass laws here then they'll get them everywhere & destroy the internet on bogus charges, i.e. totally lying...

wes

Been having terrible service with Vodafone, ever since the switch from BT. So this looks like the last straw with that shower.

Ryan!

Rabies wrote: »

How do they know the d/l numbers?

Yes exactly, how are they supposed to know exactly what the people are downloading?

old_aussie

How will the ISP's survive when all illegal downloading ceases?

Most people will only need a 500MB or 1Gig per month download allowance and many might just use free Wi-Fi to catch-up on emails.

The ISP's will lose so much business that I can see them going broke.

jimmycrackcorm

old_aussie wrote: »

How will the ISP's survive when all illegal downloading ceases?

Most people will only need a 500MB or 1Gig per month download allowance and many might just use free Wi-Fi to catch-up on emails.

The ISP's will lose so much business that I can see them going broke.

You do realize that people use BB at home for non-illegal stuff such as paying ryanair extra charges and the like also?

Cuddlesworth

Same old plays, same old game. There are plenty of ways and means to avoid this "attempt" at stopping file sharing. The best way to stop it is to offer a better alternative then filesharing. Easy to use app, cheap costs, high bandwidth for fast downloads and good selection. You need to stop torrents, bearshare etc as being the easy option.

pooch90

ScumLord wrote: »

Mothafukhas!



Vodafones internet service isn't even worth it, I keep getting disconnected I'm switching back to digiweb once my contract is up.

WHy wait? If it's not working then complain and just go and switch.

They cannot say anything if their product doesn't work.

(By the way, it sounds like you're constantly switching between 3G and GSM and that you're generally in an area with patchy or no 3g. Try going to settings, network and changing it to GSM only to see if that fixes the problem. Also, if you're on a laptop try disabling your bluetooth and wireless as that causes a problem on mine. - assumig your mobile)

Fuhrer

I moved to Vodaphone because of Eircoms stance, there another ISP that operates similarly?

Dravokivich

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

I think everyone should be downloading illegal music to make a point & to show these people they can not get away with using lies to put stricter rules on internet users...

Right.. download music illegally to screw over the Record Label... and what about the Artist?

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

There is no legal precedent for this policy yet, it all hinges on UPC and how they do in court, there is no way '3 strikes' is legal.

I'm not too sure how legislation is... but I feel an ISP should not take on the responsibility of what their users are doing with the service the ISP are providing.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Same old plays, same old game. There are plenty of ways and means to avoid this "attempt" at stopping file sharing. The best way to stop it is to offer a better alternative then filesharing. Easy to use app, cheap costs, high bandwidth for fast downloads and good selection. You need to stop torrents, bearshare etc as being the easy option.

please for the love of all that is holy dont say "stop torrents"... this medium of transfering data is exceptionally good next to UseNet. It's not the medium, it's the data being transferred...

aside of the above comments...

As it stands now... these Record labels are shooting themselves in the foot by not providing a good service themselves and constantly stating where it is people are pirating from.

I'd have no problem sub'n to a service if I was able to find it easily and considered it good value. Other then iTunes (Which I detest) I haven't been able to find anything that can be used much in Ireland. Everything I've found so far has been locked in to the USA with territory rights and such...

Fuhrer

Dravokivich wrote: »

Right.. download music illegally to screw over the Record Label... and what about the Artist?

Thats what concerts are for

sponsoredwalk

Dravokivich wrote: »

Right.. download music illegally to screw over the Record Label... and what about the Artist?

What is stopping you from going out and buying Aslan's cd as well?

It's not about getting a load of sub-standard music, it's about privacy & their attempts to slowly pass pieces of legislation that will, over time, add up to 1984 style freedom for the government to snoop on everyone, tip the balance of your browser to show certain websites, certain advertisements & block or basically hide alternate forms of newsmedia/whatever...

The thing here is it's a temporal process & constant small attempts on their part do not seem to be going away, it's time people actually stand up to this.

I don't think anybody is going to fall for this kind of a response as justification for this nonsense, they need other avenues & this is a good example.

EDIT: If everyone actually did this if any laws come into fruition, thousands upon thousands of people getting banned from ISP's would send a message that reforms have to be made - but it would take a lot of people - as they would lose money & people would seek alternatives.

ejmaztec

The IRMA Nazis won't be happy until they make it compulsory for everyone to pay €50 for a cd, whether you want one or not. They'll probably have a cd levy to go along with tax, prsi and income levy on your payslip.



..oh yes, and Vodafone Broadband is a complete crock o' sh1t. Come back BT, all is forgiven.:(

Yakult

Dravokivich wrote: »

Right.. download music illegally to screw over the Record Label... and what about the Artist?

They get **** all from the record companies anyway. They make most of their money from gigging, endorsements and merchandise sold.


Its only a matter of time before all the internet providers start doing what eircom have.

henryporter

The sister-in-law goes to the library to get CDs to record - what now: ban libraries?

Once music and every other media went digital the record companies were screwed - makes a nice change from them screwing their artists and the punters - remember the days of paying up to 20 quid for a cd? - it's still a euro a song to download from itunes etc. AFAIK most artists get about 2 euro or less per album so who's making the money?

Dravokivich

Fuhrer wrote: »

Thats what concerts are for

Right... well you'll only have concerts for big bands who already have a huge back catalouge out there. Upcoming bands will just have "Gigs" in small venues. Still unable to make money because of the lack of revenue from CD sales... and playing small venues means less crowds attending. Less revenue for the artist on ticket sales as well.

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

What is stopping you from going out and buying Aslan's cd as well?

I was merely responding to when you said...

I think everyone should be downloading illegal music to make a point

I'm not just saying Aslan... I'm talking about every Artist making a career out of Records... very small bands won't get the investment required by Record Labels if the Record Labels aren't going to get a return on it...

And of course... you are right there's nothing stopping me going out and buying the cd...

But this thread is about using the Internet as your "Free Music Store." I was referring to the lack of availibilty and a quality service for the consumer online.

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

It's not about getting a load of sub-standard music, it's about privacy & their attempts to slowly pass pieces of legislation that will, over time, add up to 1984 style freedom for the government to snoop on everyone.

The thing here is it's a temporal process & constant small attempts on their part do not seem to be going away, it's time people actually stand up to this.

I don't think anybody is going to fall for this kind of a response as justification for this nonsense, they need other avenues & this is a good example.

I was not referring to the quality of the artist in any way in my previous responce either...

I think you are going a little too far with that conspiracy theory stuff... I feel an ISP should not be responsible for what it's user does online, as I've stated earlier. But I've also said I don't know anything in regards to any legislation behind it. You can have an opinion and feel that the situation is wrong, doesn't make you right in going against it.

Dravokivich

R_H_C_P wrote: »

They get **** all from the record companies anyway. They make most of their money from gigging, endorsements and merchandise sold.


Its only a matter of time before all the internet providers start doing what eircom have.

And concert locations are determined by....

CD SALES!

It's the Label that puts up the gigs...

Dravokivich

henryporter wrote: »

The sister-in-law goes to the library to get CDs to record - what now: ban libraries?

Once music and every other media went digital the record companies were screwed - makes a nice change from them screwing their artists and the punters - remember the days of paying up to 20 quid for a cd? - it's still a euro a song to download from itunes etc. AFAIK most artists get about 2 euro or less per album so who's making the money?

The money the artist makes is based on cost price for the vendor, not the price you see on the sticker in the store...

fulhamfanincork

Can anyone tell me if this rule will be enforced from now on or if they will be trawling back through the years to see if people have illegally downloaded and ban them?

wattlendaub

Is Vodafone implementing this a dead set, or might they not do it?

FFS, now I'll have to switch my service to UPC... makes me wonder why I'm not on them already.

sponsoredwalk

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think you are going a little too far with that conspiracy theory stuff... I feel an ISP should not be responsible for what it's user does online, as I've stated earlier. But I've also said I don't know anything in regards to any legislation behind it. You can have an opinion and feel that the situation is wrong, doesn't make you right in going against it.

I'm glad you said this was a conspiracy theory because it kind of invalidates your whole point seeing as there has been legislation in the U.S. that is CONSTANTLY being put forward to constrict the internet.

Don't believe me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

The music debate is their best attempt yet. (You actually have to read those links to understand what I'm saying).

Unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence is that sales have increased during the internet years, increased.

Why don't you respond to those figures?

One would tend to think that an increase in sales would mean that smaller bands would have record companies trying to recruit more bands to further deepen the corporate trough?

This argument about very small bands not getting signed is nonsense, how is that so if record companies are making more now than in the past? Why are there more festivals now than in the past, and with huge variation in the artists appearing from year to year?

Did you look at the Cancadian study in which it was shown that downloading has actually increased CD sales?

My word means nothing, I think the study has more credibility than my ramblings, I have to ask of you what your opinion is, especially seeing as we're constantly bombarded with propaganda telling us the music industry is suffering.


The figures tell us something different....

ScumLord

pooch90 wrote: »

WHy wait? If it's not working then complain and just go and switch.
- assumig your mobile)

Fixed broadband line, those mobile internet things are a complete rip off, Vodafone where selling them to new computer users telling them their as good as a fixed line in your home. I have friends that got bills of €600 when they where told they where on a flat fee.

Fuhrer wrote: »

I moved to Vodaphone because of Eircoms stance, there another ISP that operates similarly?

Digiwebs the best I've used so far, kicking my self that I switched.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Right... well you'll only have concerts for big bands who already have a huge back catalouge out there. Upcoming bands will just have "Gigs" in small venues. Still unable to make money because of the lack of revenue from CD sales... and playing small venues means less crowds attending. Less revenue for the artist on ticket sales as well.

that's how David Grey made a name for himself. The thing is 90% of all music is shyte, if you can't get successful playing gigs it's probably because your just not that good. I don't care if the popstars go bust it's only right. The real musicians will win out based on their talent.

sponsoredwalk

Dravokivich wrote: »

The money the artist makes is based on cost price for the vendor, not the price you see on the sticker in the store...

What fairytale land is this???

If you want to take Steve Albini's word for it, the guy who recorded Nirvana's In Utero, you get $4000 after everything. (Great article, really worth reading!).

If you want to get a bit more recent with this taken from a recent book showing how difficult it is unless you're selling ƒuckloads.

Now, once you've paid off the massive cost of recording & the advances you might stand to make a bit of money, but that's a hell of a lot of money you have to pay back first.

That kind of explains why music is so crap, they aren't going to invest so much money into a band unless they will sell big.

As for your CD sales argument, I can't find anything to back your claim about concerts being determined explicitly by CD sales but if that is the case maybe they ought to factor in online sales, seeing as they make a huge profit from it, (though I bet they do).

Dravokivich

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

I'm glad you said this was a conspiracy theory because it kind of invalidates your whole point seeing as there has been legislation in the U.S. that is CONSTANTLY being put forward to constrict the internet.

The internet is not solely made up of illegally downloading copyright material, which is what I understand this thread is about...

Any legislation passed in the USA should have no baring here. My understanding of reading those articles... is that the US Government is trying to legislate and define what internet usage should be in the US for US Consumers. IE not letting the ISP state what it should be as they have done before and qouted from 1 of your sources...

One reaction of many broadband operators was to impose various contractual limits on the activities of their subscribers. In the best known examples, Cox Cable disciplined users of virtual private networks (VPNs) and AT&T, as a cable operator, warned customers that using a Wi-Fi service for home-networking constituted "theft of service" and a federal crime.[55] Comcast blocked ports of VPNs, forcing the state of Washington, for example, to contract with telecommunications providers to ensure that its employees had access to unimpeded broadband for telecommuting applications.

Butch Cassidy

Dravokivich wrote: »

Right.. download music illegally to screw over the Record Label... and what about the Artist?

This is big record companies trying to protect their bottom line. I can't imagine many people who genuinely enjoy music care a hoot what Lady Gaga or Jedward get paid or don't get paid. If an artist was serious about music they'd be involved in an artist-friendly network of people who love the music. The argument's been made many times before: Anyone can record an album int their bedroom with even the most basic equipment.

You don't need the big labels.

Dravokivich wrote: »

And concert locations are determined by....

CD SALES!

It's the Label that puts up the gigs...

There's a festival next week called KnockanStockan and the artists that will appear aren't chosen solely on CD sales. It's about a third of the price of Oxygen.

There's no one worth seeing play The Point. IRMA and IMRO don't invest in new bands, new music or new artistes.

Mars Bar

Noooo!

It's the reason we stayed away from Eircom and are now with Vodafone (only coz they bought out Perlico).

Hank_Jones

Did they ever think that the reason there is a ''drop'' in music sales is due to the fact that the country is in the toilet and people don't have as much money for certain ''luxury'' items as they might have previously.

I know that a few years ago I was probably buying an album a week,
but now I wouldn't even think of spending loads of money on cds and dvds.
Not that I have the money to spend on them anyway.
1/4 of the country is on the dole ffs, I would imagine people are more interested in paying the rent than buying the latest album from Aslan.
Also, Aslan are a load of balls.

Dravokivich

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

What fairytale land is this???

I've studied music production in 2 colleges and touched on Copyright / Contracts stuff... I've an understanding on that end of things...

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

If you want to take Steve Albini's word for it, the guy who recorded Nirvana's In Utero, you get $4000 after everything. (Great article, really worth reading!).

If you want to get a bit more recent with this taken from a recent book showing how difficult it is unless you're selling ƒuckloads.

Now, once you've paid off the massive cost of recording & the advances you might stand to make a bit of money, but that's a hell of a lot of money you have to pay back first.

That kind of explains why music is so crap, they aren't going to invest so much money into a band unless they will sell big.

I understand about advances and know that the advance an artist gets is due to be paid out on their cut / royalties from CD sales, before they make money out of it. No CD Sales, advances dont get paid back...

But you do understand an advance in this instance is no different then any other job right? If I get an advance from work ahead of my payday, I expect to have less money coming around when pay day comes. But overall I've been paid the same amount.

The advance is a gamble by recod labels, if they don't make it back on the first album and feel the Artist will be unable to claw it back with a second album, they just release the artist. They don't hunt down the remainder of the advance.

In regards to how much an artist makes after advances are cleared and when their royalties are due, is all down to their publishing / record contracts.

Artists do not seem to be screaming out about issues with these contracts, the problem is with people illegally obtaining the product.

As I said their royalty and the money the label makes is only determined by cost price for the Vendor. The Vendor being HMV / Amazon / CDWOW... not how much the vendor charges the consumer.

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

As for your CD sales argument, I can't find anything to back your claim about concerts being determined explicitly by CD sales but if that is the case maybe they ought to factor in online sales, seeing as they make a huge profit from it, (though I bet they do).

It's common sense... If they aren't selling in France, they aren't going to do a concert in France... If the location doesn't show an interest in the artists product... there's no point on hosting an event there...

Online sales? But... didn't you say:

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

I think everyone should be downloading illegal music

Funky G

The record companies have only themselves to blame. for years they were ripping us off with our favorite music at overpriced levels. i remember hearing stories years ago that a genuine cd album cost less than a £1 to make and they could charge £15 in hmv, golden discs, virgin megastore etc....yes that was in punts....

someone on another thread posted up a pie chart on who gets what when a cd is sold - the record company took most of the pie.....

ever since napster and mp3 evolved the music revolution all the record company exec's thought this only as a fad that college students and geeks in small numbers would do amongst themselves. In the last decade it has exploded and the only thing the reord compaies can do is wave the bad finger at anyone who downloads illegally with the help of a lawyer.....

I could be wrong but i remember a few years back that when people bought legitimate cd's from internet sites like play or cd wow because they were cheaper than the record shop, imro and the like tried to ban these sites from ireland or have customs put a import levy on the package or have a higher price - inclusive of some rip-off tax just for ireland when a resident of ireland bought something.....

hey - we were still buying the genuine cd - but at a realistic price that people can afford. i still buy cd's coz i am a collector and would like to show my kids music that their daddy liked instead of a folder on my computer that says music....i was in a friends house some time back and wowed at the front cover of a beatles album on vinyl....

as for eircom and vodafone, i have delt with them before. there customer support services are rubbish. if they start resticting on what people do on the net they will start losing customers i think.

the only bad thing is that for some people in this backward country we live in, vodafone and eircom are the only options for them.