Disgraceful Behaviour From Bookies?

underthepost

Thankfully this has a happy ending. Please give me your opinions so far

I was browsing OddsChecker last Thursday night around 11.30pm. I came across odds for the Naimbia and Romania Churchill Cup Rugby International.

All bookies were giving Romania between 1.10 and 1.14 to win, with the exception of one bookies - who seemed to have the odds inverse, giving Romania 5.00 to win.

Chancing my luck, I opened an account with this bookie (availing of some free bets), and piled a few quid on the Romania win at 5.00, and the Romania Handicap of +13 at 10/11 odds.

Next morning before work, I checked the odds, and the website rectified this error - with Romania to win at 1.14 and a Romania Handicap of -13 at 10/11. I checked my open bets and it stated that my original bets still stood. Happy days.

True to underdog form, Naimbia won the game 21-17. Thankfully I hedged my bets a little with other online bookies, and the generous Handicap also covered me nicely.

That evening, I checked my account, and was shocked to see my handicap of +13 was stated as a loss.

I am well aware that the bookies can give the incorrect odds, and the odd time they honour their mistake, while other times, they just void the bet and return the stake.

I rang a Customer Service agent in the UK (around 8pm in the evening), and asked if he could look into my bet, because I thought it was settled incorrectly. He informed me that I was contacted before the event, informing me of the incorrect odds, and that my bets were subject to the new odds - Romania at 1.14 instead of 5.00 and the Handicap at -13 rather than +13. He also informed me that unless I contaced Customer Service before the event commenced to void the bets, the new odds were accepted by me. I had a brief argument with him on the phone and he said the Terms and Conditions cover all of the above. Informing him to be more specific, and to please stop hiding between generic statements that the Terms and Conditions cover this, I realised I was getting nowhere with this guy on a Friday evening, I hung up, and checked my email.

Here is where I was outraged:

I sat down that night and sent the following email:

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I write in response to the below email.

I was in contact with a Customer Service agent yesterday (8.30pm, 11/06/2010) in relation to bets placed on the Namibia vs Romania Rugby International.

I placed four bets in relation to this fixture - 3 individual bets for a Romania win, and a Romania to win Handicap of +13.

As the result ended - Namibia 21 Romania 17, I fully expected to win my handicap bet. When I noticed that my online account settled this bet as lost, I contacted a Customer Service agent, who informed me that there was a mistake with the original quoted odds and that the odds were subsequently changed. He also informed me that the below email was sent to me in relation to this, and informed me of the details in the below email. I did not check my personel email until after this call with the Customer Service Agent.

I am outraged for two separate reasons.

2 emails were sent to me at 12.25pm and 12.32pm. Considering the event commenced at 1.00pm, that gave me 35 minutes to respond, had I seen the email. As I work 9am-5pm Monday to Friday, I did not have access to my personal email at this time. I believe that the terms and conditions stimpulate the below email details. Can you please provide me with the following:

• Where in the terms and conditions it states that bets placed by customers are subject to change if a mistake is made
• What the minimum amount of notice the customer receives to change his/her bet to void or accept the new odds - 35 minutes is completely unreasonable and unrealistic.
• What means of communication is attempted with the customer - you have details of my mobile number and my email. Please provide me with details of where in the terms and conditions it states that email is the only attempt to communicate that there is a mistake in the bet. Considering customers may be in the workplace and may not have access to personel email (with Internet limitations and restrictions), surely an attempt should be made to the customer's mobile (eg. phonecall and/or text). The email communication may also be blocked by spam filters.
• Where is the terms and conditions it states that no response from the customer implies acceptance of the new odds.

The second matter I am angry about, is the changing of my handicap bet from Romania +13 to Romania -13.

To me, this is a completely separate bet. Had I wanted the handicap of Romania -13, I would have chosen this bet. You appear to have changed a bet I placed, against my permission, and gave me 35 minutes notice (by email). Surely this infringes on customer trust towards the bookmaker? Again, I ask you to provide me with the following details from the terms and conditions:

• Where it states that you reserve the right to significantly change the terms of a bet once placed - eg. the changing of the bet from Romania +13 to Romania -13, is a significant change and represents a completely different bet.
• Where in the terms and conditions it states that no response from the customer (in a 35 minutes time period) implies acceptance of a new bet which contains a significant change?

I understand that odds quoted can be subject to mistake and error. I also feel that it is the bookmakers duty to rectify this by either:

• honouring the bet and accepting the mistake
• rendering all bets void and communicating to the customer the exact reason, using the appropriate communication channel.

I would also ask why you left it so late to communicate to affected customers that this market was quoted with significant errors. The below email states 'For a period of 180 minutes' the market was quoted incorrectly. As I placed my bets between 11.30pm (10/06/2010) and 00.30am (11/06/2010), this means that you discovered the error by 02.30am (11/06/2010) at the very latest. Why did it take almost 10 more hours to make any attempt to contact me?

With respect to the above, I expect either of the following solutions:

• Honour my bets as originally placed. This would mean I won my Handicap bet and lost my Match bets
• Render all bets void. This would mean the Handicap bet would be rendered void, as well as my Match bets for consistency.

I expect a speedy resolution to the above.

x PyRo

That's what happens when you try and pull a fast one.

myflipflops

Not a huge amount of sympathy for you but they are certainly wrong on your handicap.

They can't change your handicap bet from a +13 to a -13. This isn't settling it at the right price, it's changing your bet to a completely different thing. It's an incorrect decision by them. Settling at the correct price would have been setting +13 as a winner @ 1/100 or something like that.

If they won't change it, go to www.ibas-uk.com. I presume whoever you had the bet with is affiliated with them. I'd be 99% sure they will rule that the handicap bet should be settled as a void.

thesandeman

While on the subject I have to give kudos to Boyles- last week Vodafone were playing games with me, I tried to put a bet on by phone.... Got as far as 'yes Ill take th....'I tried to ring back before the off to confirm but signal was still down. I assumed bet hadnt gone through as I hadnt even finished talking never mind getting bet confirmed. Horse won at 5s. Checked about 3 hours later when signal came back and they had given me the benefit of the doubt and paid me. So thanks Boyles (never thought Id be saying that lol.)

Verance

OP, you knew that the odds were wrong and the bookie had made a genuine mistake, no sympathy.

okidoki987

It was either a mistake by someone in oddschecker or the bookie concerned.
You tried to stuff them on a wrong price and now you kicking off cause you didn't get paid?
If I was the bookie I'd tell you to get stuffed.
How would you like it if you were selling a car in the paper and put the price in at €100 instead of €1,000 and I arrived up and insisted you sell me the car at €100.
You'd tell me to get lost, now put yourself in the bookie shoes.
I'd also say if you got a phone call in work from a bookie, you'd go mad.

underthepost

Yeah, I fully admit I chanced my arm with the bet....

But look at it this way - Romania are only 4 places ahead of Naimbia in world rankings, and I remember Naimbia giving Ireland a tough game in the 2007 world cup.

Suppose the bet was placed with good faith by a punter.....do people not find it frightening that the bookies could change the odds, and significantly change the nature of a bet and give 35 minutes notice by email?

I think it was weak and sneaky from the bookmaker.

Thankfully, all money was refunded to me as void including the match bet.

underthepost

okidoki987 wrote: »

It was either a mistake by someone in oddschecker or the bookie concerned.
You tried to stuff them on a wrong price and now you kicking off cause you didn't get paid?
If I was the bookie I'd tell you to get stuffed.
How would you like it if you were selling a car in the paper and put the price in at €100 instead of €1,000 and I arrived up and insisted you sell me the car at €100.
You'd tell me to get lost, now put yourself in the bookie shoes.
I'd also say if you got a phone call in work from a bookie, you'd go mad.

It was a mistake in bookies.

Yes but what if I took your €100, and gave you a moped (eg. changing of the handicap)?

Maybe I'm 100% out of order here?

I asked the bookmakers to show me the Terms and Conditions specifying what they did, and they didn't provide it. I've also had a good look through their Terms and Conditions and it is no where to be found.

And the time of notice to either void or accept the new odds and bet is laughable. Looks like they sat on the info until the last moment, despite knowing of the error since 2.30am!

matt1958

verance when the punter makes a genuine mistake more often then not the bookies don't give a crap and keeps your money.. The other day i mistakenly put in a first half AH for argentina i got it cancelled thankfully but i was told that if it happens again i wont be able too get it cancelled.. recourse is too slanted in the bookies favour imo.. anyway op goodluck with sorting it out hopefully it goes your way

PCPhoto

okidoki987 wrote: »

It was either a mistake by someone in oddschecker or the bookie concerned.
You tried to stuff them on a wrong price and now you kicking off cause you didn't get paid?
If I was the bookie I'd tell you to get stuffed.
How would you like it if you were selling a car in the paper and put the price in at €100 instead of €1,000 and I arrived up and insisted you sell me the car at €100.
You'd tell me to get lost, now put yourself in the bookie shoes.
I'd also say if you got a phone call in work from a bookie, you'd go mad.

completely different situation ....legally you would have to sell the car for €100 (unless the advert carried a E&OE....Errors and Omissions Expected) .... and the seller would have to take a legal action against the paper for misprinting the advert.

in the OPs case ... best you should be entitled to is a refund of bet amount - you've already lost on other bets, ideally they would refund the original stake and give you a free bet to match your original bet.

I do think they should have made a better attempt to contact you but they tried to contact you within minutes of you making the bet (am I right) ....but only made contact via email, you knew the bets were suspect...but went ahead with them anyway.

I hope you get a free (goodwill) bet and your original stake back !!

underthepost

PCPhoto wrote: »

completely different situation ....legally you would have to sell the car for €100 (unless the advert carried a E&OE....Errors and Omissions Expected) .... and the seller would have to take a legal action against the paper for misprinting the advert.

in the OPs case ... best you should be entitled to is a refund of bet amount - you've already lost on other bets, ideally they would refund the original stake and give you a free bet to match your original bet.

I do think they should have made a better attempt to contact you but they tried to contact you within minutes of you making the bet (am I right) ....but only made contact via email, you knew the bets were suspect...but went ahead with them anyway.

I hope you get a free (goodwill) bet and your original stake back !!

Yeah I got my full stake back, so not too bad.

I placed the bet 13 hours before the event, they realised the mistake 11 hours before the event, and attempted to contact me 30 mins before the event....

PCPhoto

PCPhoto wrote: »

completely different situation ....legally you would have to sell the car for €100 (unless the advert carried a E&OE....Errors and Omissions Expected) .... and the seller would have to take a legal action against the paper for misprinting the advert.

ffs, there is no way that legally you have to sell the car for what is advertised. If I advertise a car for a grand and someone offers me the grand I don't have to legally sell it to them so if by some f up it's up for €100 the same applies.

hawaii501

PCPhoto wrote: »

completely different situation ....legally you would have to sell the car for €100 (unless the advert carried a E&OE....Errors and Omissions Expected) .... and the seller would have to take a legal action against the paper for misprinting the advert.

in the OPs case ... best you should be entitled to is a refund of bet amount - you've already lost on other bets, ideally they would refund the original stake and give you a free bet to match your original bet.

I do think they should have made a better attempt to contact you but they tried to contact you within minutes of you making the bet (am I right) ....but only made contact via email, you knew the bets were suspect...but went ahead with them anyway.

I hope you get a free (goodwill) bet and your original stake back !!

You don't have to legally sell it to them, it's just misleading advertisement. Their is nothing anywhere that states you have to sell it at that particular price.

okidoki987

But look at it this way - Romania are only 4 places ahead of Naimbia in world rankings, and I remember Naimbia giving Ireland a tough game in the 2007 world cup

That's nothing to do with it, you knew the handicaps were the wrong way round and tried take advantage of a mistake end of story.
If they didn't give you your money back, they would have settled it at the correct odds of that handicap about 1/250 I'd guess.

underthepost

okidoki987 wrote: »

That's nothing to do with it, you knew the handicaps were the wrong way round and tried take advantage of a mistake end of story.
If they didn't give you your money back, they would have settled it at the correct odds of that handicap about 1/250 I'd guess.

Me taking advantage of the mistake is irrelevant - theoritically, if I placed those bets in good faith, I would have been screwed by the bookies. Short of me admiting I chanced my luck, the bookies have no way to say I didn't take those odds in good faith.

Trying to significantly change odds of one bet, and the nature of another bet, and giving me 35 minutes notice by email is terrible form. I'm still waiting for this particular book makers to show me where in the Terms and Conditions gives them the right to do this......

underthepost

underthepost wrote: »

Me taking advantage of the mistake is irrelevant - theoritically, if I placed those bets in good faith, I would have been screwed by the bookies. Short of me admiting I chanced my luck, the bookies have no way to say I didn't take those odds in good faith.

Trying to significantly change odds of one bet, and the nature of another bet, and giving me 35 minutes notice by email is terrible form. I'm still waiting for this particular book makers to show me where in the Terms and Conditions gives them the right to do this......

Have you not gotten your stake back ?
If so, go away and study for your next bet and forget about it.

FunnyStuff

Verance wrote: »

OP, you knew that the odds were wrong and the bookie had made a genuine mistake, no sympathy.

If you went into a retailer and saw a PS3 signed at €29.90, surely to god you would want to buy it at such a good price. You know its a mistake, but sure try your luck anyway. Take it up to the desk, casheir scans it in and say '€29.90 please'. You get the cash out when suddenly she says 'sorry that should actually be €299 euro, sorry'. Now she has already offered it to you at €29.90 and you accepted, so deal is done. You knew it was a mistake, but the mistake isnt your fault. Once she offers it at that price and you accept, contract of sale is made so they have to sell it to you at that price.

Now regardless of who's the mistake is, its up to the bookies to get their information right, if they done, its not the customers fault, they should accept it and pay out. If you bet 250 euro on asomething by mistake instead of 25 and lose, will they accept your mistake and refund the difference. Rarely.

FunnyStuff

FunnyStuff wrote: »

Now regardless of who's the mistake is, its up to the bookies to get their information right, if they done, its not the customers fault, they should accept it and pay out. If you bet 250 euro on asomething by mistake instead of 25 and lose, will they accept your mistake and refund the difference. Rarely.

Read the terms and conditions in a betting office or online

FunnyStuff

RoverJames wrote: »

Read the terms and conditions in a betting office or online

In this day and age, i'd be more concerned with keeping a customer than being so technical. I tell my guys to keep them smiling, if they make a mistake like that, its their fault and they have to learn from that. If a customer walks out the store with a smile on their face, it can result in 10 new customers walking in, if they go out unhappy, it can result in 20 less walking in.

Verance

FunnyStuff wrote: »

Now regardless of who's the mistake is, its up to the bookies to get their information right, if they done, its not the customers fault, they should accept it and pay out. If you bet 250 euro on asomething by mistake instead of 25 and lose, will they accept your mistake and refund the difference. Rarely.

Of course not, but they would pay out to the €250 bet had it won. How would they know it was a genuine mistake? But their's was an obvious mistake, you knew that. I've often made mistakes on dockets and if I try to change them before the event, the bookie's always done that.

Make yourself fully aware of the bookie's terms and conditions before placing a bet.

OP, You tried to pull a fast one and got caught. No need to come on here complaining.

FunnyStuff

Verance wrote: »

Of course not, but they would pay out to the €250 bet had it won. How would they know it was a genuine mistake? But their's was an obvious mistake, you knew that. I've often made mistakes on dockets and if I try to change them before the event, the bookie's always done that.

Make yourself fully aware of the bookie's terms and conditions before placing a bet.

You tried to pull a fast one and got caught. No need to come on here complaining.

It wasnt my mistake actually, i'm just standing up for the OP, i'm not the OP. Maybe you shold practice what you preach and read before you act.

ForzaKid

Can somebody please tell me what the 'OP' is??

Gillington

ForzaKid wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me what the 'OP' is??

Original poster

x PyRo

ForzaKid wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me what the 'OP' is??

Original Prankster.

ForzaKid

Thanks Lads,I hadden't a clue what it meant!

okidoki987

All bookies were giving Romania between 1.10 and 1.14 to win, with the exception of one bookies - who seemed to have the odds inverse, giving Romania 5.00 to win.

Chancing my luck, I opened an account with this bookie (availing of some free bets), and piled a few quid on the Romania win at 5.00, and the Romania Handicap of +13 at 10/11 odds.

The bits in bold say it all.

All bookies have a rule called "palpable errors" I think it's where they can void or cancel a bet if there's a mistake made, like in this case where the handicaps were obviously the wrong way round.
Not sure if you heard back yet but I'd say you have NO chance of getting a bean out of them, out may get the stake back but that would be all.

abouttobebanned

A thread full of moral gamblers? You're having a laugh

abouttobebanned

abouttobebanned wrote: »

A thread full of moral gamblers? You're having a laugh

Not really, I often question the staff on betting offices I frequent about payouts if reckon they are not correct, last week I was expecting €79 but the lady handed me €160. Their was a non runner in my docket that I didn't know about as I hadn't seen two of the races and had just checked the results on my phone. Just because one gambles it does not mean one has questionable moral values.

underthepost

okidoki987 wrote: »

The bits in bold say it all.

All bookies have a rule called "palpable errors" I think it's where they can void or cancel a bet if there's a mistake made, like in this case where the handicaps were obviously the wrong way round.
Not sure if you heard back yet but I'd say you have NO chance of getting a bean out of them, out may get the stake back but that would be all.

Ya I got my stake refunded in the end.

I fully understand ''palpable errors''. My point is that they locked me into two different bets - one bet with completely different odds, and the other with a completely different outcome - instead of voiding the bets.

This was done against my permission, where non reply to a sent email 35 minutes before the event started (despite knowing of their error at least 10 hours before the event started) implied acceptance of the new odds and the new bet!

They still can't provide me with Terms and Conditions on the above!!

okidoki987

As you have your money back, who was it?

POINTBREAK

An unscrupulous bookies could take advantage of that rule. All he has to do is advertise the wrong price and if it goes against him claim a mistake. The other thing is that the price enticed you to bet and they were responsible for advertising the price so it should be their fault.



We used to have a local bookie who had a sign that said.....

If we pay you out short. Tell us.
If we pay you out too much Tell Everybody Else.