muzzle brake

tommyboy26

how much do muzzle brakes reduce recoil?


tommy

Tackleberrywho

tommyboy26 wrote: »

how much do muzzle brakes reduce recoil?


tommy

A lot

I have a 20" barrel with a 2" break .308. I would not like to fire it without it

Breaks or moderators absorb a lot of recoil and muzzle jump

Tackleberrywho

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A lot

I have a 20" barrel with a 2" break .308. I would not like to fire it without it

Breaks or moderators absorb a lot of recoil and muzzle jump

i appreciate it s on an evil rifle, but you should get the point

If you are shooting target or have a short barrel & a large calibre they do take some of the sting out of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWUk6GJQhNQ

tommyboy26

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil. can they be bought anywhere and do you need to change licence for it?


tommy

Tackleberrywho

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil. can they be bought anywhere and do you need to change licence for it?


tommy

most dealer sell them No licence change for break, Yes change need for moderator

I know a guy who can make custom breaks to suit your barrel

gunhappy_ie

MPO (My Personal Opinion)................

Muzzle brakes have there uses in large caliber rifles (.338 and above or rifles producing simular recoil) or in a firearm that requires faster follow up shots than a standard model (ie if the firearm doesnt come with a model with a brake)

For me personally I wouldnt have a break on anythin smaller then .338 unless I needed it for above mentionen activity.

How effectve are they ...Well the bigger the caliber generally the better the brake .... ie a Barret M82A1 feels less felt recoil than a 12G shotgun (again though.... thats my opinion)

but there are companies claming massive (up to 50% on .223) reductions out there.

blaserlrs2

Muzzle brakes have there purposes on larger calibers , ie .308 and up, But on the smaller calibers the just increase noise , The recoil on the smaller caliber are minimal ,
So real point ,
Getting back to your question , On larder calibers they are claiming up to 50% recoil reduction ,

tac foley

Coupla things about muzzle BRAKES -

1. You cannot fit a moderator AND a muzzle brake at the same time - it is one or the other.

2. If you go in for any kind of 'lined-up style' target shooting they are extremely unfriendly to be near - the muzzle blast comes out sideways and backwards.

And like the man said, the bigger the calibre, the more effective the muzzle brake is.

Any competent gunsmith can fit one - think around eu100-150 in the RoI.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Tackleberrywho

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil. can they be bought anywhere and do you need to change licence for it?


tommy

I think a mod may be better suited to you. You need to get a permit.
Not a big deal, state reasons is to reduce noise pollution as mod will only baffle sound like a car mod/muffler. It will not eliminate noise ie:Whip craic effect as bullet still breaks sound barrier.

the break 0n my rifle is a factory break pointing vertically upwards.
Breaks that let gas out in all directions tend to blow dust all around the place.

A mod would seem to be your best bet. IMHO ASE Ultra is the best, but there are cheaper ones available. It will also eliminate the need for hearing protection in the field IMHO

Most RFD's sell Mod's. Some custom rifle builders can make them in Ireland too

tac foley

Muzzle brakes do not blow the gas out in all directions - they are axial deflectors and usually work by directing some of the propellant gas slightly to the rear to counteract the recoil - this is how they work.

I agree that ASE are the mid-leg articulations of the common apis - most of those in our club seem to be made by them.

The design and manufacture of a moderator is a long and complex issue, and I personally would leave it to the big boys to come up with the goods rather than rely on a 'one-off', however skilled the local gunsmith might be.

As for custom rifle builders in the RoI, we were discussing this very subject yesterday at the range. Anybody like to enlighten us on that subject? Note that I do not mean assemblers of other manufacturers' components - I mean custom rifle builders, as from scratch, building their own action and barrels.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Tackleberrywho

tac foley wrote: »

Muzzle brakes do not blow the gas out in all directions - they are axial deflectors and usually work by directing some of the propellant gas slightly to the rear to counteract the recoil - this is how they work.

I agree that ASE are the mid-leg articulations of the common apis - most of those in our club seem to be made by them.

The design and manufacture of a moderator is a long and complex issue, and I personally would leave it to the big boys to come up with the goods rather than rely on a 'one-off', however skilled the local gunsmith might be.

As for custom rifle builders in the RoI, we were discussing this very subject yesterday at the range. Anybody like to enlighten us on that subject? Note that I do not mean assemblers of other manufacturers' components - I mean custom rifle builders, as from scratch, building their own action and barrels.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

No barrel builder as yet AFAIK Economy of scale and all that.
There are 2 I know of, 1 in the midlands 1 in the south east.

They 1 I am familiar with is researching building there own action at present.
For the most part Actions are supplied , barrels Kreiger or trueflite are the most common, and through the use of EDM, Mills and lathes a myriad of breaks and suppressors have been made, so too with tactical bolt knobs, and one off mounting arrangements.

I appreciate that breaks can cause issue as in a dusty environment they can rise dust, if that is in a uniform or angled form is not the issue, the issue is it can tee off shooters on the left of right of shooter.(if I made an erroneous statement the main point was not)

AFAIK in some climates military have removed breaks as they give away the position, slightly off thread.
back on thread, In ROI T8's are common and ASE suppressors

In ROI one needs to get a permit to use one. They are restricted on centre fire so a cover letter with application is required to explain need.

eg. shooting on land near valuable horses, or not wanting to disturb piece shooting a lot of rounds with a loud report

tac foley

Here in UK they are also a separate entry on the firearm certificate.

I don't have a moderator on any of my guns - most of them are not only old-fashioned in one way or another, but would look really ridiculous with one on them. Can you imagine putting a moderator on a 58cal Black powder carbine :=)

My seven .22s are all used for target shooting would also look ridiculous, as well as detracting from the value if screw-cut for a moderator.

My Krico 650SS has a G3-style flash-hider on it, put there by its former owners, GSG9. Again, since i have no horses to frighten, one is not needed.

Over in the USA none of my rifles or carbines have a moderator, especially at a cost of $200 per item!! A Garand, Dragunov or SKS would look pretty stupid with one, IMO.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Rovi

[pedant]
Brake
[/pedant]

Carry on.

WallysWorld

Nah, you got to man up and never mind your suppresors and muzzle breaks and all that stuff designed to make shooting more pleasent. What you need is a LOUDENER!:pac:

This is a thing by the way, I'm not messing it can be got!



http://www.armamentsales.com/enhancers.htm

BANG *starts bog fire*

Serious reply, If I were you I'd get a mod, all the benefits of a muzzle break with the bonus of reducing the chances of deafening yourself if you forget hearing protection.

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A lot

I have a 20" barrel with a 2" break .308. I would not like to fire it without it

Breaks or moderators absorb a lot of recoil and muzzle jump

not according to Remington . you have a 22" barrel as your brake is fixed .

WallysWorld

Is that your barrel jwshooter?

I like the way its been ported.

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

not according to Remington . you have a 22" barrel as your brake is fixed .

Yes brake is fixed, the rifling is 20" the break is 2 " = 22"

So we won't be splitting hairs

The point being it is very short but does not hop as a short barrel normal would without

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Yes brake is fixed, the rifling is 20" the break is 2 " = 22"

So we won't be splitting hairs

The point being it is very short but does not hop as a short barrel normal would without

not splitting hairs tac you have a 22" barrel .

jwshooter

WallysWorld wrote: »

Is that your barrel jwshooter?

I like the way its been ported.

yes it was made for me by the guy that re barreled my rifle .

the design is spiraled with equal holes all round ,recoil comes straight back you do not loose sight picture at all .i can say there is little to no recoil from my 270.

i got it proffed with the barrel .

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

not splitting tac hairs you have a 22" barrel .

To me the barrel is the rifled bit , but I'll agree with you this time 22" barrel!
Although it said 20" barrel 2 " break on box it came in
I was told at the time it was for marketing purposes as some states had rules on min length.

I have seen several breaks in McBrides glass case in Athlone, polished stainless mostly.

I fired a short barrel before without one and I did not like the jump.

The OP said he did not like recoil of .308, I hardly notice recoil in comparison to some other sporting rifles I have fired.

jwshooter

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil. can they be bought anywhere and do you need to change licence for it?


tommy

you never said what rifle u use

Grizzly 45

Over in the USA none of my rifles or carbines have a moderator, especially at a cost of $200 per item!! A Garand, Dragunov or SKS would look pretty stupid with one, IMO.

Thats just the TRANSFER TAX for the Feds:).A Silencer in the US depending on and for what caliber can range from 500 Dollars for a good.22 to 2000 plus for somthing that will hold together under a full auto test.You are getting into rich mans toys there in the US with those sort of things.

Actually,Dragunov and SKS had in Sov times silencers made for them.They werent very effective though.More to cruddy designs than anything else.
But didnt really detract fro m the looks of the Dragunov,as it was pretty slimline,just made the gun more awkward.

The design and manufacture of a moderator is a long and complex issue, and I personally would leave it to the big boys to come up with the goods rather than rely on a 'one-off', however skilled the local gunsmith might be.

Not really anymore.The principles of Maxims design with baffles havent changed all that much in the last 100 years.It is either expansion chamber/sound deading material/baffles with either "wet or "dry" capability of the can or combos thereof [BTW a Wet can is one that can accept a liquid to muffle the report even further.]
all the big companies are really doing are bettering the mouse trap,with new alloys,steels ,sound deadning materials, and weird and wonderful cans for the weird and wonderful guns out there.

There are plenty of plans out there for exellent cans that have proven themselves over the years in combat &hunting,that any machinist who can read a plan,and knows what he is about could put together in a machine shop for you..

Cass

tommyboy26 wrote: »

how much do muzzle brakes reduce recoil?


tommy

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil.

Just throwing this out there. Not sure of the finer points, but most if not all F-Class shooting is done without a muzzle break. They are not allowed.

I only mention it as you have posted a few threads in regards to getting into target shooting.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Just throwing this out there. Not sure of the finer points, but most if not all F-Class shooting is done without a muzzle break. They are not allowed.

I only mention it as you have posted a few threads in regards to getting into target shooting.

Why is that Ezri? As I never did F-Class I'm not familiar with it.
I'd like to go down that road so i'm interested in learning

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Why is that Ezri? As I never did F-Class I'm not familiar with it.
I'd like to go down that road so i'm interested in learning

No point in baffling you with bulls**t. I don't know the rules. I have been told by those shooting longer than me that muzzle breaks are against the rules. Might have something to do with "proper" shooting. You know, the shooter, the rifle, the target. No advantages to one above the other. Take my rifle. It is not threaded for a break or mod and i wouldn't bother with one. Other lads with other rifles that are threaded for a break/mod has less recoil and better battery and possibly follow through, giving him an advantage over me/other shooters.

I suppose its trying to keep the sport "pure".

Also on a side note i think they can be used in competitions in some countries (don't quote me on this) like England, but most do not allow their use.


I'm sure someone more familiar with the rules can elaborate.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

I'm sure someone more familiar with the rules can elaborate.

How many at a good guess shoots in a comp? How long does a comp take?

Ooops, this is off thread.:D

Have you used a mod/break on a rifle bigger than .224 and if you did you find it any good?

I know exhaust gases are very important in how the round leaves the barrel similar to exhaust in a car combustion situation

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

How many at a good guess shoots in a comp? How long does a comp take?

At the Nationals a few weeks ago there was upwards of 50 shooters if i remember correctly. There can be 16 individuals shooters (as in 1 per target) or you can double up and shoot string with 2 per board. You have 2 sighters and 15 score shots. More detailed rules but thats the quick summary.

Have you used a mod/break on a rifle bigger than .224 and if you did you find it any good?

Yes, on a TRG22 in .308 cal. The recoil was reduced, but honestly i did not/do not find the recoil of a .308 so unbearable that a muzzle break would be a necessity or even a requirement. I used it only once or twice and that was at 100yds to see the effect. There is a difference in point of impact with the muzzle break on, much like a moderator. Cannot remember the specifics (as in higher or lower), but was nothing to wirte home about.

Ooops, this is off thread.:D

Yes, apologies for that.

dCorbus

Just checked this one:

Rules F2.12 & F2.13 of the International Confederation of Fullbore Rifle Associations (ICFRA), of which both the UK NRA and our own NRAI are full members, specifically prohibits the use of muzzle compensators, brakes, and moderators, in both F/TR and F-Open classes.

I'd guessed this is because, according to the Rule Book, "no competitor may use equipment or shooting methods that provide them with an unfair
advantage or put any other competitor at an unfair disadvantage" and I'd guess a muzzle brake comes under that catch-all.

It also unfair and unsporting, and frankly a major pain-in-the-hole, to be shooting a competition in close-proximity to a neighbour using a muzzle brake, due to the side-wash. For the same reason, many ranges either discourage or actually prohibit their use, both here and abroad.

i have a .308 and cant gettin use to recoil.

Come now, the recoil on a .308 is not that bad!;)
It is something that must be gotten used to, IMvHO - But that could be me just being too purist about it!:D Using a brake is kinda fooling yourself and allowing you to develop bad habits which are hard to get rid of!

on a TRG22 in .308 cal. The recoil was reduced,

It is reduced, but not by much TBH. The muzzle-jump is reduced considerably. But if .308 recoil is worrying the O/P, adding a muzzle-brake will only help slightly, and will lead to "bad habits" (if I can phrase it that way, but you know what i mean, hopefully).

And a muzzle brake on a .308 does not reduce the felt or percieved recoil to such an extent (again IMvHO) that you won't still be flinching or anticipating the kick. It really only stops the muzzle-jump and only slightly reduces recoil. Or at least that's what I've found.

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

Just checked this one:

Rules F2.12 & F2.13 of the International Confederation of Fullbore Rifle Associations (ICFRA), of which both the UK NRA and our own NRAI are full members, specifically prohibits the use of muzzle compensators, brakes, and moderators, in both F/TR and F-Open classes.

I'd guessed this is because, according to the Rule Book, "no competitor may use equipment or shooting methods that provide them with an unfair
advantage or put any other competitor at an unfair disadvantage" and I'd guess a muzzle brake comes under that catch-all.

It also unfair and unsporting, and frankly a major pain-in-the-hole, to be shooting a competition in close-proximity to a neighbour using a muzzle brake, due to the side-wash. For the same reason, many ranges either discourage or actually prohibit their use, both here and abroad.



Come now, the recoil on a .308 is not that bad!;)
It is something that must be gotten used to, IMvHO - But that could be me just being too purist about it!:D Using a brake is kinda fooling yourself and allowing you to develop bad habits which are hard to get rid of!

And a muzzle brake on a .308 does not reduce the felt or percieved recoil to such an extent (again IMvHO) that you won't still be flinching or anticipating the kick. It really only stops the muzzle-jump and only slightly reduces recoil. Or at least that's what I've found.

If it is a very light rifle with a Tong type barrel maybe

OP try firing a day of clays with an old baikal single barrel and you will stop flinching

Or if you are of small build try one of those spongy but plate thingy magiggies

I find my Remmy VTR fine, and it is a light rifle 7 1/2 lb's

It wasn't me!

My experience is that a mod will tame the kick better than a muzzle brake, though I couldn't claim experience with either too many mods or too many muzzle brakes. neither is the done thing for target shooting however, so I'd recommend looking up a few threads here on how to get rid of flinching and learn to take recoil well. You won't find it too hard with a .308 to shoot some tidy groups with a bit of practice and concentration.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

My experience is that a mod will tame the kick better than a muzzle brake, though I couldn't claim experience with either too many mods or too many muzzle brakes. neither is the done thing for target shooting however, so I'd recommend looking up a few threads here on how to get rid of flinching and learn to take recoil well. You won't find it too hard with a .308 to shoot some tidy groups with a bit of practice and concentration.

Shot anticipation and follow through.
I was lucky enoughto use a digital indoor range which shows your grip pressure, trigger pressure and length of hold on trigger post shot.

Several odf us did it, the ones that held on a few seconds after the shot, shot better.
A good firm grip and proper breathing technuiques help, a mod helps with muzzle jump as in essence it is a big weight on the end of the barrel as well as a gas baffle.

I'd get a mod and just don't use it in comp's best of both worlds IMvHO

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

..............I'd get a mod and just don't use it in comp's best of both worlds IMvHO

If ONLY shooting comps I wouldn't get a mod as consistency in training and competing is important.

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

If ONLY shooting comps I wouldn't get a mod as consistency in training and competing is important.

OP are you shooting just comps, just hunting , or both?
Bunny is correct in his point.
No point you flinching in comps and not in the field.

I still think you will get used to the .308 in a few more rounds

dCorbus

It would seem from the O/P's other posts on other threads that both Hunting and Target shooting (up to and including F-Class) are the areas which he is most interested in (open to correction on that, but that's my reading of the O/P's posting history).

If that is the case, surely tommy26 should get his practice in, without a muzzle brake - in that way, he'll learn to handle the recoil, avoid flinching, etc. and generally learn to be a better and more accurate shooter.......and then, once that's dealt with/mastered/overcome, use a muzzle brake when necessary to deal with follow-on shots and target re-acquisition.

A personal example: I don't usually (if ever) use my muzzle brake on my .308 for a couple of reasons: 1. No need TBH, 2. Can't use it in competitions so no point practicing with it on, etc.

But, I will be using it for a McQueen shoot in the UK in a fortnight - and for that discipline, target acquisition / re-acquisition is important (unlike the other target disciplines i shoot in), so I've been practicing with the brake on, just to sort out my drops etc.

But if I wasn't going to a McQueen's shoot, I wouldn't bother with the muzzle brake at all.

The overall point I suppose I'm making is that the muzzle brake really only comes into its own, if first you are used to firing the rifle without it. Otherwise, you're only lulling yourself into a false-sense-of-security, so to speak.

And bearing in mind, we're taking about a .308 only!

dwighet

Heres the break on my 300 win mag....

It literally turns a lion into a pussycat...
Its just a firm push in the shoulder and no muzzle lift....
I also use an ase ulta jet when not using the break and I find the break lessens the recoil more than the mod....



Heres a little vid I did with me phone

jwshooter

a lot less felt recoil with my brake also ,i use a jetz on my 270 . but its a snug gun to shoot any way .

tommyboy26

sorry for the lateness of my reply guys.


i am very interested in shooting f-class so that rules out the muzzle brake. i have been shooting .22 for a few years so the recoil on my .308 is very hard to get use to but as so many of you have pointed out i need to practice more......


what i think i really need is someone to spend a few hours in the range teaching me what to do as i need to learn so much.....


and as i thought myself how to shoot my .22 im sure i have alot of bad habits and anythin i have learned lately is from the help of this site so just need to speak to someone in the midlands the next time im down there thanks for all your help



tommy

fish slapped

These clips will give you an idea (but I wouldn't try this at home!!!:eek:)

enter site and go to muzzle break test :

http://www.straightshotgunsmithing.com/

jwshooter

the last thing you want to do is spend time on a range ,fire a few shots at a time from a bench not prone .

wear plugs and muffs also were a heavy well padded vest or jacket .

flinching comes from noise more so than recoil for the informal rifleman .


dont go shoot a single barrel shot or the like less is more with your problem .