Steeplechase

helpisontheway

Two girls i coach had planned on doing steeplechase this year also but due to the increase in height of the barriers and length of the race had to abandon the idea! Sprint hurdlers are only doing 2"6 until age 18 but a distance runner who lets face it dont have that spring has to do that height at 15/16!
The motions that were passed at congress in relation to steeplechase should really be voided as they were at the end of the second day when over 50% of the delegation had left to make the journey home and alot of the rest still there just wanted to go home.The motions passed will destroy any hope of womens steeple improving in numbers and standard.
Either way they shouldnt have been implemented this season on health and safety grounds as 6 weeks is not an adequate timeframe to alter your training for new heights and distances;its like telling a 1500m runner that his event has been changed to 2500m and is expected to be able to manage it even though he has been training for 1500m since last September!:mad:

sh4128

wait the height for womens steeple chase has increased by how much?:S

helpisontheway

sh4128 wrote: »

wait the height for womens steeple chase has increased by how much?:S

Girls u17 steeplechase has increased from 2'3 to 2'6 which basically means a beginner steeplechaser is using the same height barriers as women use in the Olympics! Its the same for u17 boys who now have to use 3'0 barriers the same as Olympic champion Kiprop/Kipruto!

downthemiddle

helpisontheway wrote: »

Two girls i coach had planned on doing steeplechase this year also but due to the increase in height of the barriers and length of the race had to abandon the idea! Sprint hurdlers are only doing 2"6 until age 18 but a distance runner who lets face it dont have that spring has to do that height at 15/16!
The motions that were passed at congress in relation to steeplechase should really be voided as they were at the end of the second day when over 50% of the delegation had left to make the journey home and alot of the rest still there just wanted to go home.The motions passed will destroy any hope of womens steeple improving in numbers and standard.
Either way they shouldnt have been implemented this season on health and safety grounds as 6 weeks is not an adequate timeframe to alter your training for new heights and distances;its like telling a 1500m runner that his event has been changed to 2500m and is expected to be able to manage it even though he has been training for 1500m since last September!:mad:

Last year when we had 2ft 3 barriers over 1200m we had TWO entries in the U17 girls chase at national level. We will be lucky to match that this year. There are very few athletes who will have the experience to compete over the new heights and distances.

Smiley Laura

helpisontheway wrote: »

Two girls i coach had planned on doing steeplechase this year also but due to the increase in height of the barriers and length of the race had to abandon the idea! Sprint hurdlers are only doing 2"6 until age 18 but a distance runner who lets face it dont have that spring has to do that height at 15/16!
The motions that were passed at congress in relation to steeplechase should really be voided as they were at the end of the second day when over 50% of the delegation had left to make the journey home and alot of the rest still there just wanted to go home.The motions passed will destroy any hope of womens steeple improving in numbers and standard.
Either way they shouldnt have been implemented this season on health and safety grounds as 6 weeks is not an adequate timeframe to alter your training for new heights and distances;its like telling a 1500m runner that his event has been changed to 2500m and is expected to be able to manage it even though he has been training for 1500m since last September!:mad:

What? Oh my God, that's really crazy! It's actually really mad, because if you are running bad and your pace is slow, then you'll have no momention to pull you over.

downthemiddle

There were two competitors in the girls U17 s'chase in the Dublin c'ships yesterday with no entries at U18 or U19 level. In the boys there were five entries over the three age groups, all of whom ran in the one race with one dnf. The boys had a vote and elected to race over 2k instead of 3k.
In Leinster things were slightly better with seven girls and seven boys competing over the three age groups.
In Munster two girls competed at U18 level with five boys competing over the three age groups.
There was no s'chase held in the Ulster/N.I. c'ships.

It certainly strengthens Tingle's argument for shorter races. I would like to see U15 and U16 athletes competing over 800m with an ordinary barrier replacing the water jump leading to a gradual increase in distance and height. Despite producing two world class female chasers we lag behind in this event. There is no reason why we can't be competitive at European level in the s'chase but we are discourging atheltes at a young age.

ecoli

downthemiddle wrote: »

There were two competitors in the girls U17 s'chase in the Dublin c'ships yesterday with no entries at U18 or U19 level. In the boys there were five entries over the three age groups, all of whom ran in the one race with one dnf. The boys had a vote and elected to race over 2k instead of 3k.
In Leinster things were slightly better with seven girls and seven boys competing over the three age groups.
In Munster two girls competed at U18 level with five boys competing over the three age groups.
There was no s'chase held in the Ulster/N.I. c'ships.

It certainly strengthens Tingle's argument for shorter races. I would like to see U15 and U16 athletes competing over 800m with an ordinary barrier replacing the water jump leading to a gradual increase in distance and height. Despite producing two world class female chasers we lag behind in this event. There is no reason why we can't be competitive at European level in the s'chase but we are discourging atheltes at a young age.

I agree with you regarding the development however we still seem to provide good individuals. In recent times in males we have had medals at European youth , two currently on scholarship in America, one who at 21 has recently ran 9.01 looks like he has potential to improve even further. I would like to see strength in depth develop as i really think that we can improve on this even further as we see what has been achieved in this event despite the difficulties at youth levels

Smiley Laura

downthemiddle wrote: »

There were two competitors in the girls U17 s'chase in the Dublin c'ships yesterday with no entries at U18 or U19 level. In the boys there were five entries over the three age groups, all of whom ran in the one race with one dnf. The boys had a vote and elected to race over 2k instead of 3k.
In Leinster things were slightly better with seven girls and seven boys competing over the three age groups.
In Munster two girls competed at U18 level with five boys competing over the three age groups.
There was no s'chase held in the Ulster/N.I. c'ships.

It certainly strengthens Tingle's argument for shorter races. I would like to see U15 and U16 athletes competing over 800m with an ordinary barrier replacing the water jump leading to a gradual increase in distance and height. Despite producing two world class female chasers we lag behind in this event. There is no reason why we can't be competitive at European level in the s'chase but we are discourging atheltes at a young age.

I agree. And to be honest the girls running in the Dublins race were actually well able to jump it efficiently, but when it came to the water jump it wasn't great. I was supposed to be in that race, but pulled out.
In defence to the boy who dropped out; he hadn't done much before, whereas all the other competitors were clearly very experienced, most of them hurdling it perfectly.

meathcountysec

For what its worth, the heights were not increased only the distances.

Edit: Please ignore....

meathcountysec

Smiley Laura wrote: »

I agree. And to be honest the girls running in the Dublins race were actually well able to jump it efficiently, but when it came to the water jump it wasn't great. I was supposed to be in that race, but pulled out.
In defence to the boy who dropped out; he hadn't done much before, whereas all the other competitors were clearly very experienced, most of them hurdling it perfectly.

The water jump will always be a issue as they are often only filled for competition. It wouldn't be safe to go over them when dry and by the time you get to see them at competition its a bit late. The earlier suggestion about jumping into a long jump pit may help a bit, but I imagine its still a bit heart stopping when confronting the real thing for the first time since whenever.

helpisontheway

meathcountysec wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion over this.

At the Leinsters the girls ran over 2'3" barriers, the boys 2'6" barriers. These are the same barriers as will be used in the All Irelands. The only changes made were to the distances of the actual races.

Some older barriers may not be adjustable down to these levels. The one's in Tullamore are.

Afraid not as a motion was passed at congress straight after the distance increase motion that the heights change to 2'6 and 3'0 aswel.Both motions will be applicable at All Irelands.

meathcountysec

helpisontheway wrote: »

Afraid not as a motion was passed at congress straight after the distance increase motion that the heights change to 2'6 and 3'0 aswel.Both motions will be applicable at All Irelands.

[embarassed county sec]Opens mouth and removes foot.[/embarassed county sec]

Just read through the whole of the motion that was passed. Mae culpa.

Note to self: drink more coffee at Congress.

Smiley Laura

helpisontheway wrote: »

Afraid not as a motion was passed at congress straight after the distance increase motion that the heights change to 2'6 and 3'0 aswel.Both motions will be applicable at All Irelands.

So was the height of the steeples run at the Dublins on Sunday 3'0 for boys and 2'6 for girls?!?

helpisontheway

Your original post actually now throws up a real issue in both safety and competition though.If the athletes at Leinster jumped lower heights as the athletes in Munster also did last weekend there who's to say that they are safe or even able to manage the higher heights at nationals? I see that leinster had a good entry in the girls u17 but who's to say that the girl who finished 5th wouldnt have beat some of the girls ahead of her if the barriers were at the correct height?
The point im really trying to highlight is the inconsistant application of rules in athletics and accross all events how much damage it does to our sport.I pointed out to an official at Munsters the weekend that u13's had to use blocks and was totally ignored-winner of the sprint and hurdles didnt use them but will have to at nationals which is bound to upset him when he turns up to the start line and is told!

helpisontheway

Smiley Laura wrote: »

So was the height of the steeples run at the Dublins on Sunday 3'0 for boys and 2'6 for girls?!?

They should have been but somebody who was there who have to give you a definite answer as to if they actually were.

meathcountysec

helpisontheway wrote: »

Your original post actually now throws up a real issue in both safety and competition though.If the athletes at Leinster jumped lower heights as the athletes in Munster also did last weekend there who's to say that they are safe or even able to manage the higher heights at nationals? I see that leinster had a good entry in the girls u17 but who's to say that the girl who finished 5th wouldnt have beat some of the girls ahead of her if the barriers were at the correct height?
The point im really trying to highlight is the inconsistant application of rules in athletics and accross all events how much damage it does to our sport.I pointed out to an official at Munsters the weekend that u13's had to use blocks and was totally ignored-winner of the sprint and hurdles didnt use them but will have to at nationals which is bound to upset him when he turns up to the start line and is told!

Have deleted my earlier pontification about the heights at Leinsters. As far as I could see the barriers were set at the lowest setting for the girls. I was upstairs doing timing so can't swear on anything about anything.

downthemiddle

The girls ran over 2ft 6 and the boys over 3ft in the Dublins. The lowest notch on the barrier is 2ft 6 but it can be dropped down to 2ft 3.
The girls were given the option of running over 1200m or 2k and chose 2k. The boys were given the option of 2k or 3k and also chose 2k.
Didn't get a time for the boys but the U17 girls was won in a respectable 7min 35 secs.

downthemiddle

Looking at the results from the junior and U23 championships today there were no female competitors in the steeplechase at either age group.

sh4128

distance decreased for all irelands

meathcountysec

sh4128 wrote: »

distance decreased for all irelands

Under 18 Girls and Boys will race over 2,000m

downthemiddle

meathcountysec wrote: »

Under 18 Girls and Boys will race over 2,000m

Is there any change for the U17s?

meathcountysec

downthemiddle wrote: »

Is there any change for the U17s?

Not that I'm aware. Reading between the lines of the announcement on the AAI website I'd say the wrong distances were sent out to the provinces for their U18's SC so they are cutting the distance at the All Irelands.

downthemiddle

There were four cometitors in the girls U17 chase, three at U18 level and one at U19 for the nationals today. U17's and U18's ran together. The sole competitor at U19 asked to run with the others but the officials wouldn't let her as U19's are meant to run 3k.
U17's outclassed the U18's with the winner of the U17's over a minute ahead of the U18's. The officials managed to put in an extra barrier on the first lap in this race.
There were three competitive races in the boys chase with reasonable fields in all three races.
Congrats too to Emmet Jennings on achieving the World Junior qualifying time on Thursday night.

joggermurphy

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downthemiddle

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joggermurphy

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donothoponpop

Guys (joggermurphy and downthemiddle),

we have in the charter a rule about conversing about junior athletes. Its there for a good reason; I hope you appreciate why. While there is nothing too bad in the way either of you have been discussing this issue, it crosses a line (discussing junior athletes), and I hope you'll understand why I've snipped the posts.

cheers,

-donothoponpop

downthemiddle

donothoponpop wrote: »

Guys (joggermurphy and downthemiddle),

we have in the charter a rule about conversing about junior athletes. Its there for a good reason; I hope you appreciate why. While there is nothing too bad in the way either of you have been discussing this issue, it crosses a line (discussing junior athletes), and I hope you'll understand why I've snipped the posts.

cheers,

-donothoponpop

Ironically that change to the charter occured as a result of a thread I started. I just don't like people criticising the efforts of our juvenile athletes.

donothoponpop

downthemiddle wrote: »

Ironically that change to the charter occured as a result of a thread I started. I just don't like people criticising the efforts of our juvenile athletes.

Fine, so in future will you just report a post you feel is critical of juniors rather than reply to it? Makes thing easier all round, thanks:)