Steeplechase

Smiley Laura

Okay, I started this thread because I really need to ask a few questions about steeplechase. The Dublins are next weekend, and I'm entered for them, but I can't really do it well. Help!:(

ecoli

Smiley Laura wrote: »

Okay, I started this thread because I really need to ask a few questions about steeplechase. The Dublins are next weekend, and I'm entered for them, but I can't really do it well. Help!:(

Haha finally someone on this forum who has joined the real dark side (despite what the marathoners say)
Are you looking to ask questions or just what can you do last min to get ready for this?

Smiley Laura

ecoli wrote: »

Haha finally someone on this forum who has joined the real dark side (despite what the marathoners say)
Are you looking to ask questions or just what can you do last min to get ready for this?

I agree when you say it's the dark side, I never realised it was so fricken hard!
Really just what tips, and maybe even drills/streches I can do to strengthen that muscle behind your hip that really gets going when you hurdle them.
Also, I can't for my life actually step on it and then jump over it! How can I improve this?
I'm only 15 at the moment, but I want to do real well in this race!:D

ecoli

Smiley Laura wrote: »

I agree when you say it's the dark side, I never realised it was so fricken hard!
Really just what tips, and maybe even drills/streches I can do to strengthen that muscle behind your hip that really gets going when you hurdle them.
Also, I can't for my life actually step on it and then jump over it! How can I improve this?
I'm only 15 at the moment, but I want to do real well in this race!:D

Well first off out very slow. You can make up alot of ground on people who go out to fast so dont worry because people always go out too hard in this event so what ever you planned on doint the first lap in add on about 5 seconds.
When you are coming to these hurdles dont be afraid to move out in order to get a good view of the barriers as you are coming to them. Coming up to them in a on someones shoulder means you dont have full sight of hurdle to adjust your feet for barrier.
Hurdle drills are can be useful in long term development (unfortunately week before race starting these prob wont have much bearing.
My advice would be set up one hurdle and practice strides at race pace over hurdle. Also for the water jump set up a barrier in front of Long jump pit and use this as practice.
Best of luck with this sorry i cant be of more use regarding drills but anything you will do regarding them this week wont have any bearing and will prob only take away from your race

Smiley Laura

ecoli wrote: »

Well first off out very slow. You can make up alot of ground on people who go out to fast so dont worry because people always go out too hard in this event so what ever you planned on doint the first lap in add on about 5 seconds.
When you are coming to these hurdles dont be afraid to move out in order to get a good view of the barriers as you are coming to them. Coming up to them in a on someones shoulder means you dont have full sight of hurdle to adjust your feet for barrier.
Hurdle drills are can be useful in long term development (unfortunately week before race starting these prob wont have much bearing.
My advice would be set up one hurdle and practice strides at race pace over hurdle. Also for the water jump set up a barrier in front of Long jump pit and use this as practice.
Best of luck with this sorry i cant be of more use regarding drills but anything you will do regarding them this week wont have any bearing and will prob only take away from your race

Okay, that's good advice. Especially about setting the barrier in front of the long jump- I'm currently covered in bruises! It's just really frightening and actually stressful. I'm also doing the Junior Cert at the moment, and surprisingly I find steeplechase a hundred times more stressful! I've training tomorrow, so I'll do a good few jumps then.
Thanks for replying, didn't expect anyone to know much about it!

ecoli

No problem
Do you see yourself looking too this event in the future? If so i can send on some the training material i have to help with development such as sessions drills stretches etc to help give you general push in the right direction. Again remember its 2k so plenty of time in the race dont go out too hard.

Smiley Laura

ecoli wrote: »

No problem
Do you see yourself looking too this event in the future? If so i can send on some the training material i have to help with development such as sessions drills stretches etc to help give you general push in the right direction. Again remember its 2k so plenty of time in the race dont go out too hard.

Well, providing the race goes well I think I might just stick at it. That would really be great! My race is actually only going to be 1500m, not too sure why. I think it's because we're younger. But still, I won't go out to hard.

ocnoc

How'd you get on Smiley L?

ecoli

Sorry only replying now was out racing yesterday. 11.05 no matter how much you practice for steeple you never get fully used to it:p


The steeple is a combination of the strength of a 5k runner, the ability to run with broken rhythm of a cross country runner and have the flexibilty of a 400m hurdler which is the reason for it being one of the toughest events.

Here are drills which can be done year round to help with hip flexibilty:

1. Walking lead leg
2 Walking trail leg
3. Walking hurdles (land lead leg before initiating the action of the trail leg)
4 Lead Leg Drill: Running A beside hurdles with lead leg only over hurdle row.
5. Trail Leg Drill: Running A beside hurdles with trail leg only over hurdle row.
6. Lead Leg Drill: Skipping A beside hurdles with lead leg only over hurdle row.
7. Trail Leg Drill: Skipping A beside hurdles with trail leg only over hurdle row.
8. Down the Middles: Skipping between and over hurdles, combine lead and trail leg action. As with walking hurdles, land lead leg before engaging trail leg.
9. Trail leg circles: Place a hurdle 2-3 feet from a wall, athlete places hands on wall and repeatedly practices dynamic trail leg action.
10. Lead leg stabs: Place one hurdle next to wall. Start three steps from the wall. Step forward with lead leg, then trail leg, then lead leg drives up and touches wall.
11. On all fours, trail leg circles. This develops both technique and mobility.
12. Strides over hurdles, 4/5/6 running strides apart, set at various hurdle heights. Random spacing will help learn stride adjustment so critical to fluid steeplechasing.

In terms of training cross country is very important as the combination of hills and flats which break up rhythm is the same sort of stresses on the body as steeple which is why you see many people who perform well on steeple also perform well in cross country

Coming off XC season should try to incorporate 100m strides with one hurdle. These should be alactic (not be a session done after run but not run too hard and full recovery so no build up of lactic in the legs)

Hill reps of 2-3 min are great especially on hills with a varied gradient to simulate breaking up rhythm and having to run hard despite the pace being slower than you would normally associate with the rhythm of track or road running

In track season your training programme should be similar to a 5k runner with one session a week substituted for a steeple session

Here are examples of some steeple sessions:
6-8 400m over barriers @ 3k S/C pace
2x800m over barriers, 2x800m flat, 2 x 800m over barriers @ 3k S/C or 3k flat pace

in order to get practice over water jump place barrier in front of long jump pit and use this to practice as this will be less severe on the legs than doing on track.

Race
The idea here is to go out quite easy as the barriers take alot out of you so it is better to go out slow as so many people make the mistake of going out too hard and dying. In terms of hurdling the barriers this is the most effective way to clear them rather than stepping on them as this can break up your rhythm however this takes more out of you physically so it is important to suit this too your own strengths and weakness's
if you are to step on the barriers (this applies to water jump to) the idea is to be low on the barrier and push off in order to hit the ground in your stride to ensure momentum is kept up. At the water jump there is no point pushing off for distance to clear the water pit if you are landing on two feet flat. Its okay to land in a bit of water as long as you land in your running stride. Ideally you should be landing with one ankle only in the water coming out in full running stride.


Hope this helps anyone who has queries and the best of luck to all who PMed me regarding this great to see so many taking an interest in this event

Smiley Laura

ocnoc wrote: »

How'd you get on Smiley L?

It's not till Sunday 20th June, the race that is. But I'm doing a whole load of training at the moment.

Smiley Laura

ecoli wrote: »

Sorry only replying now was out racing yesterday. 11.05 no matter how much you practice for steeple you never get fully used to it:p


The steeple is a combination of the strength of a 5k runner, the ability to run with broken rhythm of a cross country runner and have the flexibilty of a 400m hurdler which is the reason for it being one of the toughest events.

Here are drills which can be done year round to help with hip flexibilty:

1. Walking lead leg
2 Walking trail leg
3. Walking hurdles (land lead leg before initiating the action of the trail leg)
4 Lead Leg Drill: Running A beside hurdles with lead leg only over hurdle row.
5. Trail Leg Drill: Running A beside hurdles with trail leg only over hurdle row.
6. Lead Leg Drill: Skipping A beside hurdles with lead leg only over hurdle row.
7. Trail Leg Drill: Skipping A beside hurdles with trail leg only over hurdle row.
8. Down the Middles: Skipping between and over hurdles, combine lead and trail leg action. As with walking hurdles, land lead leg before engaging trail leg.
9. Trail leg circles: Place a hurdle 2-3 feet from a wall, athlete places hands on wall and repeatedly practices dynamic trail leg action.
10. Lead leg stabs: Place one hurdle next to wall. Start three steps from the wall. Step forward with lead leg, then trail leg, then lead leg drives up and touches wall.
11. On all fours, trail leg circles. This develops both technique and mobility.
12. Strides over hurdles, 4/5/6 running strides apart, set at various hurdle heights. Random spacing will help learn stride adjustment so critical to fluid steeplechasing.

In terms of training cross country is very important as the combination of hills and flats which break up rhythm is the same sort of stresses on the body as steeple which is why you see many people who perform well on steeple also perform well in cross country

Coming off XC season should try to incorporate 100m strides with one hurdle. These should be alactic (not be a session done after run but not run too hard and full recovery so no build up of lactic in the legs)

Hill reps of 2-3 min are great especially on hills with a varied gradient to simulate breaking up rhythm and having to run hard despite the pace being slower than you would normally associate with the rhythm of track or road running

In track season your training programme should be similar to a 5k runner with one session a week substituted for a steeple session

Here are examples of some steeple sessions:
6-8 400m over barriers @ 3k S/C pace
2x800m over barriers, 2x800m flat, 2 x 800m over barriers @ 3k S/C or 3k flat pace

in order to get practice over water jump place barrier in front of long jump pit and use this to practice as this will be less severe on the legs than doing on track.

Race
The idea here is to go out quite easy as the barriers take alot out of you so it is better to go out slow as so many people make the mistake of going out too hard and dying. In terms of hurdling the barriers this is the most effective way to clear them rather than stepping on them as this can break up your rhythm however this takes more out of you physically so it is important to suit this too your own strengths and weakness's
if you are to step on the barriers (this applies to water jump to) the idea is to be low on the barrier and push off in order to hit the ground in your stride to ensure momentum is kept up. At the water jump there is no point pushing off for distance to clear the water pit if you are landing on two feet flat. Its okay to land in a bit of water as long as you land in your running stride. Ideally you should be landing with one ankle only in the water coming out in full running stride.


Hope this helps anyone who has queries and the best of luck to all who PMed me regarding this great to see so many taking an interest in this event

Thanks a million for all that, I really took a lot in. It's interesting about how when I am doing hurdle reps I should space them not equally apart- up to now I had been!
I'm much stronger at cross country, so hopefully I will be used to having my rythem broken when running.
Those sessions sound really good, though I won't chance doing anything too hard before the race.
Thanks again, I'll let you know how I get on on Sunday!

ecoli

Smiley Laura wrote: »

Thanks a million for all that, I really took a lot in. It's interesting about how when I am doing hurdle reps I should space them not equally apart- up to now I had been!
I'm much stronger at cross country, so hopefully I will be used to having my rythem broken when running.
Those sessions sound really good, though I won't chance doing anything too hard before the race.
Thanks again, I'll let you know how I get on on Sunday!

With regard to the sessions one thing i forgot to add is these do not include water jumps. Most clubs wont fill the pit for training anyway but dont attempt the water jump with no water in it this is a major injury hazard.
Also the uneven is a good idea for the drills but with the sessions they should be at the markers (4 in a lap) as race simulator

Smiley Laura

ecoli wrote: »

With regard to the sessions one thing i forgot to add is these do not include water jumps. Most clubs wont fill the pit for training anyway but dont attempt the water jump with no water in it this is a major injury hazard.
Also the uneven is a good idea for the drills but with the sessions they should be at the markers (4 in a lap) as race simulator

That's grand, the water jump is never filled anyway.

ecoli

Again best of luck at the weekend. Though alot of this advice wont help for that race its should be helpful for future racing

downthemiddle

Smiley Laura wrote: »

Well, providing the race goes well I think I might just stick at it. That would really be great! My race is actually only going to be 1500m, not too sure why. I think it's because we're younger. But still, I won't go out to hard.

AFAIK the U17 s'chase is 2,000 m.

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

With regard to the sessions one thing i forgot to add is these do not include water jumps. Most clubs wont fill the pit for training anyway but dont attempt the water jump with no water in it this is a major injury hazard.
Also the uneven is a good idea for the drills but with the sessions they should be at the markers (4 in a lap) as race simulator

This is all very interesting. Does the water actually break your fall when landing or is there some other reason?

thirtyfoot

downthemiddle wrote: »

AFAIK the U17 s'chase is 2,000 m.

Bit off topic but as a means for young athletes learning the event and to develop it I would have even shorter distances. The reason is that unless you are running close to 75-80 secs a lap you will find it very hard to hurdle correctly. Its very, very difficult to hurdle correctly if you are running at a slow speed. I would have 1k steeple as a development aid as then athletes will be running faster and hurdling better.

For a man to be hurdling very efficiently over 3ft barrier he probably would need to be running 72 secs laps at least, probably slower for a woman as they are lower.

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

This is all very interesting. Does the water actually break your fall when landing or is there some other reason?

It is there to compensate for the slope the idea is that the further you jump the less damage it does as you are landing on even surface of track again but is you just get over barrier the water is deeper because you are landing on a slope

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

Bit off topic but as a means for young athletes learning the event and to develop it I would have even shorter distances. The reason is that unless you are running close to 75-80 secs a lap you will find it very hard to hurdle correctly. Its very, very difficult to hurdle correctly if you are running at a slow speed. I would have 1k steeple as a development aid as then athletes will be running faster and hurdling better.

For a man to be hurdling very efficiently over 3ft barrier he probably would need to be running 72 secs laps at least, probably slower for a woman as they are lower.

Interesting to take the perspective of a hurdler here as i am not a 72 lap speed for steeple but notice that from my background of hurdler in juvenilles and a bit at seniors i tend to make a couple of metres on the most in any field on the barriers on my hurdle technique alone

downthemiddle

Tingle wrote: »

Bit off topic but as a means for young athletes learning the event and to develop it I would have even shorter distances. The reason is that unless you are running close to 75-80 secs a lap you will find it very hard to hurdle correctly. Its very, very difficult to hurdle correctly if you are running at a slow speed. I would have 1k steeple as a development aid as then athletes will be running faster and hurdling better.

For a man to be hurdling very efficiently over 3ft barrier he probably would need to be running 72 secs laps at least, probably slower for a woman as they are lower.

I'm preparing two U17's for their first steeple this weekend. Up until this year girls started with 1200m at U17 before moving up to 1500m at U18. Following congress U17's run 2000m with 18's running 3k. I think it is a retrogrde step myself. I would prefer to see them get a gentler introduction to the event. I can't see too many athletes being encouraged to compete over these distances.

RoyMcC

Oops sorry, I seem to have stumbled into a track & field forum, was looking for the running...

but while I'm here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSvxIvVIhgg&NR=1 :pac:

downthemiddle

Some techniques here that could never be coached. :eek:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmWDY0OcAU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Smiley Laura

downthemiddle wrote: »

AFAIK the U17 s'chase is 2,000 m.

You could be right, how do you know?

sh4128

why does the distance change so much from the provincials to the nationals?

downthemiddle

Smiley Laura wrote: »

You could be right, how do you know?

It is in the juvenile competition booklet.

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

Interesting to take the perspective of a hurdler here as i am not a 72 lap speed for steeple but notice that from my background of hurdler in juvenilles and a bit at seniors i tend to make a couple of metres on the most in any field on the barriers on my hurdle technique alone

Bear in mind I am saying this without any experience of the event apart from doing it in the leagues nearly 20 years ago:eek: but I'd base it on the fact that when I've tried to hurdle while jogging or even going at a steady pace and find it very difficult and would imagine you would use a lot of energy as ther is much less momemntum.

Your technique is probably the key to gaining ground at the barriers all right, do you speed up when approaching a barrier or do you hurdle at the same pace to when you are running? I'd be thinking if you speed up even for 5 or 7m that you would be going maybe 72 secs pace for that small section.

I think it would be great to have a 800 or 1000m steeple for juniors. Get them hammering around a track hurdling at speed, would be exciting to watch.

meathcountysec

downthemiddle wrote: »

I'm preparing two U17's for their first steeple this weekend. Up until this year girls started with 1200m at U17 before moving up to 1500m at U18. Following congress U17's run 2000m with 18's running 3k. I think it is a retrogrde step myself. I would prefer to see them get a gentler introduction to the event. I can't see too many athletes being encouraged to compete over these distances.

As far as I recall from the debate on the day the reason for increasing the distances was to facilitate athletes getting qualifying times. The previous distances were not what they might have to race over in representative competition.

shels4ever

meathcountysec wrote: »

As far as I recall from the debate on the day the reason for increasing the distances was to facilitate athletes getting qualifying times. The previous distances were not what they might have to race over in representative competition.

Yep I think that is bang on, There was talk in brining the distance in line with other countries.
Still Ilike Tingles idea of shoter races, I only ever races on race back in the 90's and was more of a fartlek race for me, speeding up for ever jump... I was terrible...

Smiley Laura

downthemiddle wrote: »

It is in the juvenile competition booklet.

Ah, ok. I'm up training tonight, so I'll ask my coach. Tbh, I'd prefer the longer distances.

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

Bear in mind I am saying this without any experience of the event apart from doing it in the leagues nearly 20 years ago:eek: but I'd base it on the fact that when I've tried to hurdle while jogging or even going at a steady pace and find it very difficult and would imagine you would use a lot of energy as ther is much less momemntum.
Your technique is probably the key to gaining ground at the barriers all right, do you speed up when approaching a barrier or do you hurdle at the same pace to when you are running? I'd be thinking if you speed up even for 5 or 7m that you would be going maybe 72 secs pace for that small section.

I think it would be great to have a 800 or 1000m steeple for juniors. Get them hammering around a track hurdling at speed, would be exciting to watch.

This is the key to the event the barriers do take alot out of you but the alternative is breaking your rhythm by stepping on the barrier and then pushing off again so even going at them slower paces it is the lesser of two evils

Smiley Laura

Ah guys bad news...
I was training last night, and the steeplechase practising wasn't going so well. I realised that I just couldn't do it. Like physically, I can actually jump it pretty well, but I know in the race I'd end up running up to it, being scared ****less and just stopping. I wouldn't have finished the race.

Instead I'm running 1500m for the Dublins, but I'm so annoyed. Just thought I'd let you all know!