N3 Navan to Kells being down graded?

bladespin

Just noticed all the speed signs on the old N3 (not the super dooper M3) have been changed to 80kmh, does this mean the road has been downgraded?

I've tried to follow news on the new road etc fairly closely but can't remember ever reading anything that suggested the speed limits on the old road were being changed.

triple-M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R147_road

yes,since the new motorway opened the old N3 has been downgraded to a regional road and therefore the speed limit has been reduced

28064212

That's ridiculous, has the road suddenly become less safe because there's less traffic on it? Just because it's reclassified doesn't mean the speed limit has to be downgraded

gipi

This seems to have happened wherever a motorway opened - what used to be the main "N" road became an "R" road and the speed limits were reduced accordingly. Examples that spring to mind include the old N1 to Drogheda (now the R132) and the old N4 through Kilcock (not sure which R it became).

Hammer Archer

Happens with all these type of roads. Same with the old N2 from Ashbourne to Finglas. And thats 60km/h in places. I'd expect the old N3 to be the same.

AnCatDubh

Don't you mean raised the speed to 80kph

Assuming this to be correct, it will have the following impact;

Navan->Blanchardstown a distance of 40km
If travelling at 100kph it will take you 24mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 30mins
Increase of 6 mins

Kells->Blanchardstown a distance of 55km
If travelling at 100kph it will take 33mins
If travelling at 80kph it will take you 41mins
Increase of 8mins

All in theory but think of commuter hell which was the N3 up to now, and lets assume a 60kph speed (average) not sure that this is reasonable with delays etc..., however the following would then apply;

Navan->Blanchardstown a distance of 40km
Previously - assuming actual speed of 60kph it will have taken you 40mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 30mins
Improvement of 10mins on previous times (allowing for assumption above)

Kells->Blanchardstown a distance of 55km
Previously - assuming actual speed of 60kph it will have taken you 55mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 41mins
Improvement of 14mins on previous times (allowing for assumption above)

Maybe too many other variables to be in any way real though. I guess that some may suggest the 60kph is a low estimate which is fair comment but i'd expect that it certainly wouldn't of broken the 80kph speed when averaged - this only directed towards commuter traffic obviously.

bladespin

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Don't you mean raised the speed to 80kph

Assuming this to be correct, it will have the following impact;

Navan->Blanchardstown a distance of 40km
If travelling at 100kph it will take you 24mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 30mins
Increase of 6 mins

Kells->Blanchardstown a distance of 55km
If travelling at 100kph it will take 33mins
If travelling at 80kph it will take you 41mins
Increase of 8mins

All in theory but think of commuter hell which was the N3 up to now, and lets assume a 60kph speed (average) not sure that this is reasonable with delays etc..., however the following would then apply;

Navan->Blanchardstown a distance of 40km
Previously - assuming actual speed of 60kph it will have taken you 40mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 30mins
Improvement of 10mins on previous times (allowing for assumption above)

Kells->Blanchardstown a distance of 55km
Previously - assuming actual speed of 60kph it will have taken you 55mins
Now travelling at 80kph it will take you 41mins
Improvement of 14mins on previous times (allowing for assumption above)

Maybe too many other variables to be in any way real though. I guess that some may suggest the 60kph is a low estimate which is fair comment but i'd expect that it certainly wouldn't of broken the 80kph speed when averaged - this only directed towards commuter traffic obviously.

Ah but what about those travelling in the other direction eg Navan to Kells? Traffic was never an issue and you could average a lot better than 60kmh before? The road hasn't deteoriated so why has the limit?

It's not just a commuter road, there are locals to think about too.

Dubh Geannain

I'd say the local would take the reduced speed limits to have a quieter road.

Apart from the Strawberry sellers, who aren't really local anyway.

bladespin

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

I'd say the local would take the reduced speed limits to have a quieter road.

Apart from the Strawberry sellers, who aren't really local anyway.

I'm local and I don't like the idea, was a route always popular for speed traps (traps not checks), there's cynical part of me that wonders about revenue generation, no other reason for the drop as far as I can see.

Edit. there's one strawberry seller on the Navan side, they're from Navan so yeha they're local too.

adelcrowsmel

Is anyone actually finding the old road (N3/R147) any quieter since the M3 opened on Friday?? I know its probably abit early to say yet, but I haven't found any difference so far - apart from Friday which I'm assuming was because alot of people used the M3 as a novelty with it just opening that day. I don't know if it is just the times that I'm travelling the route - so I would love to hear if there is a reduction of traffic for others??

bladespin

adelcrowsmel wrote: »

Is anyone actually finding the old road (N3/R147) any quieter since the M3 opened on Friday?? I know its probably abit early to say yet, but I haven't found any difference so far - apart from Friday which I'm assuming was because alot of people used the M3 as a novelty with it just opening that day. I don't know if it is just the times that I'm travelling the route - so I would love to hear if there is a reduction of traffic for others??

It seems to have made a big difference to the traffic on the Dublin side of Navan, it was much quieter through garlow cross and Skryne.
Kells side doesn't seem to have changed very much, at least in the mornings, evening traffic was a lot easier yesterday, I go the opposite way to most, Navan to Kells in the morning and never found it very heavy.

Dubh Geannain

bladespin wrote: »

Edit. there's one strawberry seller on the Navan side, they're from Navan so yeha they're local too.

Last Friday there was a strawberry seller and he was at Ross Cross.

I take your point about the speed traps though.

sarahky

i've been using the N3 for the last 12 years as a commuter and since last friday i have noticed a huge difference in volume (refuse to use new m3) I travel from navan to Blanch and for the last year or two on averge it was taking me 40-45 minutes to get to work, since last friday its been taking me 30 mins!!! Due to the drop in volume it has sped my journey up no end, even with the reduction to 80kph! During the boom time it used to take me an hour and ten minutes to do that journey!

bladespin

sarahky wrote: »

i've been using the N3 for the last 12 years as a commuter and since last friday i have noticed a huge difference in volume (refuse to use new m3) I travel from navan to Blanch and for the last year or two on averge it was taking me 40-45 minutes to get to work, since last friday its been taking me 30 mins!!! Due to the drop in volume it has sped my journey up no end, even with the reduction to 80kph! During the boom time it used to take me an hour and ten minutes to do that journey!

Yup but having the speed limits back to what they should be might help a little more.:D

Also, as the road goes back into the council's hands from the NRA they aren't going to be maintained as a national road, it's now regarded as regional, so ultimately will fall into disrepair (the money isn't there).

taffy1973

travel daily along the M3/N3 in my van and have travelled both routes since opening of the motorway and have done a few tests and calculations. from virginia to dunboyne only has a time saving of 15-20 mins ( keeping to speed limit of course) for a cost of 4 euros toll (2 euro per toll) at 120kph but also loosing 5 miles per gallon on fuel economy, yet at 80kph on old road with no traffic i am gaining approx 8 miles per gallon and saving the toll of 4 euro each way. lot of people are not factoring in the extra fuel cost at the higher speed, great road tho which is good for the one off journeys but expensive for a regular commute from the far side of kells.

bryaner

adelcrowsmel wrote: »

Is anyone actually finding the old road (N3/R147) any quieter since the M3 opened on Friday?? I know its probably abit early to say yet, but I haven't found any difference so far - apart from Friday which I'm assuming was because alot of people used the M3 as a novelty with it just opening that day. I don't know if it is just the times that I'm travelling the route - so I would love to hear if there is a reduction of traffic for others??

On it yesterday and it's a lot quieter.

_Kaiser_

The "old" road has become significantly quieter between Virginia and Navan since the motorway opened, but I expect this to change in the next few weeks when the toll tag bills start arriving.

As someone else said above, the motorway is worth it for the occasional Dublin/Cavan trip, but not everyday (Especially not if you have to pay the M50 toll as well!).

Also it takes the same 30 mins to Navan (from say Virginia) as it did before the motorway opened (and you have to pay the toll). Using the now "old" road between Kells and Navan it takes 25 minutes and no charge.

The R147 as it's now called will never be upgraded to 100 km/h again though - if they did then no one would pay the tolls on the motorway (even though the company will get their money anyway, thanks to that sneaky clause that was included in the contract - ie: if traffic volumes aren't x, the tax payer will pay y in compensation)

bladespin

taffy1973 wrote: »

travel daily along the M3/N3 in my van and have travelled both routes since opening of the motorway and have done a few tests and calculations. from virginia to dunboyne only has a time saving of 15-20 mins ( keeping to speed limit of course) for a cost of 4 euros toll (2 euro per toll) at 120kph but also loosing 5 miles per gallon on fuel economy, yet at 80kph on old road with no traffic i am gaining approx 8 miles per gallon and saving the toll of 4 euro each way. lot of people are not factoring in the extra fuel cost at the higher speed, great road tho which is good for the one off journeys but expensive for a regular commute from the far side of kells.

True, but you're factoring in fuel costs the wrong way (most cars give better mpg at constant speed (lot of starting and stopping on the old road) and are €1.30 per toll (it's cars they're after really).

Also, looking at factoring costs you should be aware the lower wear rates on tyres on motorways, less wear and tear on suspensions etc will always result in the motorway being a lot cheaper to run a vehicle on than a major or minor road.

Fiskar

bladespin wrote: »

True, but you're factoring in fuel costs the wrong way (most cars give better mpg at constant speed (lot of starting and stopping on the old road) and are €1.30 per toll (it's cars they're after really).

Also, looking at factoring costs you should be aware the lower wear rates on tyres on motorways, less wear and tear on suspensions etc will always result in the motorway being a lot cheaper to run a vehicle on than a major or minor road.

The M3 is 4 km longer than the old N3. That equates to 2 minutes longer commute, more fuel so I reckon it balances out in favour of the old N3.

squod

You can look at motors on any Irish M-way and see they're not so fuel efficient at 75mph.

Thanks to the greens we'll all be driving piddly little cars not designed for the motorways that they're building.

bladespin

Fiskar wrote: »

The M3 is 4 km longer than the old N3. That equates to 2 minutes longer commute, more fuel so I reckon it balances out in favour of the old N3.

squod wrote: »

You can look at motors on any Irish M-way and see they're not so fuel efficient at 75mph.

Thanks to the greens we'll all be driving piddly little cars not designed for the motorways that they're building.

Stop once on the N3 and you're theory on fuel economy is in the bin, there are 9 sets of traffic lights between Kells and Dunshaughlin, you'd have to be incredibly lucky to have them all green.

Point taken on the greens though, my 2l car is nearly 1.5 times more fuel efficiant than a Prius on the motorway lol.

Fiskar

bladespin wrote: »

Stop once on the N3 and you're theory on fuel economy is in the bin, there are 9 sets of traffic lights between Kells and Dunshaughlin, you'd have to be incredibly lucky to have them all green.

Point taken on the greens though, my 2l car is nearly 1.5 times more fuel efficiant than a Prius on the motorway lol.

Stop once on the M3 and time saved goes out the window along with the ecomony, I ride a bike (bike off, gloves off, search for money)

mcwhirter

Have noticed traffic to be quieter on the school run into navan from dublin side on the N3 at about 0840. Definately less traffic at the bridge lights.

triple-M

triple-M wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R147_road

yes,since the new motorway opened the old N3 has been downgraded to a regional road and therefore the speed limit has been reduced

its totally ridiculous same down here near urlingford the old N8. road very wide and it only 50km :mad:

taffy1973

bladespin wrote: »

True, but you're factoring in fuel costs the wrong way (most cars give better mpg at constant speed (lot of starting and stopping on the old road) and are €1.30 per toll (it's cars they're after really).

Also, looking at factoring costs you should be aware the lower wear rates on tyres on motorways, less wear and tear on suspensions etc will always result in the motorway being a lot cheaper to run a vehicle on than a major or minor road.

cars/vans are most economical at 50mph/80kph tho and a lot less economical at 75mph/120kph and what with driving a van its a dearer toll

bladespin

Fiskar wrote: »

Stop once on the M3 and time saved goes out the window along with the ecomony, I ride a bike (bike off, gloves off, search for money)

You should be ashamed riding a bike on a motorway, where in the name of god is the fun in that?
Anyway it still takes less time as there are many times the number of traffic light stops, get some proper gloves, you shouldn't need to take them off to get 70c, I don't

taffy1973 wrote: »

cars/vans are most economical at 50mph/80kph tho and a lot less economical at 75mph/120kph and what with driving a van its a dearer toll

My car's hitting over 50 mpg at 120kmh (not doing the math on that), at 80kmh it's doing 55(ish), not worth loosing sleep over, you'll be lucky to hit 40 mpg on the N3 from Kells to Dublin anyway..

The M3 was built for cars, so that's where the economical calculations are from, still if you take into account the wear and tear normal roads put on vans and trucks it makes sense.

Lads these are all well and good but this is off topic, my problem is with the speed limit on the old road being dropped for no reason.

ibarelycare

adelcrowsmel wrote: »

Is anyone actually finding the old road (N3/R147) any quieter since the M3 opened on Friday?? I know its probably abit early to say yet, but I haven't found any difference so far - apart from Friday which I'm assuming was because alot of people used the M3 as a novelty with it just opening that day. I don't know if it is just the times that I'm travelling the route - so I would love to hear if there is a reduction of traffic for others??

Yep, I travel Dunshaughlin-Blanchardstown and back. I'm in work for 9, used to leave at 8/8.10 (trip could vary anywhere from 25-55 minutes!!) but I've been leaving at 8.25/8.30 the past couple of weeks and making it in on time. The fact that the schools are off is obviously a factor too.

I really notice the difference in the evenings though (when the school traffic wouldn't be a factor). Leaving work at 5.30 and getting home in under 20 minutes. It's great!

jock101

One toll at Clonee is just about acceptable for 1.30c for now, But the second toll just beyond the Navan North/Delvin interchange is just Highway robbery. Especially for the what extra 10miles/17km approx. No way is that justified, and the funny thing is that suddenly your cruising at 120km/hr. Bang end of motorway signs appear lol. Then back to the crappy N3 from Kells North to Enniskillen. 5.20 yoyo's for the poor eejit's from Dublin that bought gaffs in kells, Virginia and even Cavan town, God help you's, you'd want to be an TD or an Anglo Executive for that lark. Plus I dont like Meath Coco's lowering the speed limit on the old N3 from Kells to Navan to 80km/h is just to aggravate motorists into using the Privatised M3. People of North Meath, if I lived there I would be ordering your TD's to disband, at least the second toll.:mad:

adelcrowsmel

I'm noticing myself its alot quieter this week - I'm making it home to outside Navan 5-10mins quicker, even with the reduced speed limits. I think the main diference and time saving it at Dunshaughlin - there has been no traffic at all when i pass through it now in the evenings. This could also be due to the fact the secondary schools are finished (with the time I go through at), but I think that even if the schools were open it would still be much better!!:D:D:D

Solitaire

taffy1973 wrote: »

cars/vans are most economical at 50mph/80kph tho and a lot less economical at 75mph/120kph and what with driving a van its a dearer toll

Vans and nasty little Micras maybe. Even a decent petrol car is (slightly) happier over 90km/h nowadays. With lots of main road driving my 1.6l Focus sits on its rated 43mpg. Stick to sub-80km/h driving and I drop below 40mpg.

Fiskar

My little Kwacker manages 70MPG @ cruising speeds of 120 to 135 KPH, motorway or no motorway.

Hilly N3 and gear changes kill the car economy on the N3 but the 120 Kph M3 does likewise and is only 0.2 L/100km better on the M3.

As to why I go the N3, more entertaining bike wise than the M3, would lose my licence on that thing (average 137.5 kph on opening day).
Great having the choice of road, but confused for the winter given the M50 chaos last january,
any thoughts? Which road will be well trodden and heated from the exhaust pipes, i reckon the N3.