If cooking with extra virgin olive oil degrades it, should I use something else?

runswithascript

I've been using extra virgin olive oil for my stir frys for a long time but read an article yesterday where I learned doing so negates the benefits.

What I'm wondering is should I now cook with something else, or is extra virgin olive oil without the benefits still healthier than everything else?

I do put some over food when cooked and also over cold food which is apparently good.

The article which unfortunately doesn't suggest an alternative:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=261

Mr Magnolia

Aside from your concern regarding the article, olive oil is best for cooking, extra virgin olive oil is for dressing salads.

joewicklow

I started using Grapeseed oil lately and find it a lot better than Olive Oil.

WildBoots

LA3G wrote: »

I've been using extra virgin olive oil for my stir frys for a long time but read an article yesterday where I learned doing so negates the benefits.

What I'm wondering is should I now cook with something else, or is extra virgin olive oil without the benefits still healthier than everything else?

I do put some over food when cooked and also over cold food which is apparently good.

The article which unfortunately doesn't suggest an alternative:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=261

Try coconut oil

Muffin top

Never a fan of stir fry myself. Fine your frying veggies, but it's still fried food.

stem your veg; steam is everyones friend.

runswithascript

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Aside from your concern regarding the article, olive oil is best for cooking, extra virgin olive oil is for dressing salads.

Will regular olive oil keep the benefits after being fried?

joewicklow wrote: »

I started using Grapeseed oil lately and find it a lot better than Olive Oil.

How so? Do you mean the taste or do you know it to be healthier?

WildBoots wrote: »

Try coconut oil

Again, do you know this to be healthier than either extra virgin or regular olive oil?

Muffin top wrote: »

Never a fan of stir fry myself. Fine your frying veggies, but it's still fried food.

stem your veg; steam is everyones friend.

Perhaps I am misinformed, I thought the only unhealthy thing about frying was the oil itself? I mean I hear it said grilling is healthier, and you've just said steaming is but can you explain the difference because to me apart from the oil it seems like you're just applying heat in different ways?

cc-offe

I second the coconut oil, it's more stable at higher temps than other oils and apparently forms no harmful by-products when heated.

Muffin top

Exactly my point really. If I were steaming or grilling something I wouldn'y use any oil so to my mind it would be a healthier way of cooking; that's not fact though, just my opinion.

Also in terms of vitamin retention steaming or frying would pobably involve lower temperatures than frying, so less nutrients are (in theory) lost.

runswithascript

cc-offe wrote: »

I second the coconut oil, it's more stable at higher temps than other oils and apparently forms no harmful by-products when heated.

Unfortunately I can't stand coconuts.

Muffin top wrote: »

Exactly my point really. If I were steaming or grilling something I wouldn'y use any oil so to my mind it would be a healthier way of cooking; that's not fact though, just my opinion.

Also in terms of vitamin retention steaming or frying would pobably involve lower temperatures than frying, so less nutrients are (in theory) lost.

Makes sense. I'm determined to fry though.

I've just read on another site safflower, avocado or canola is best for stir fry, although I've read somewhere else canola is a US brand name and may not be available everywhere.

Can you buy either of those three oils in Dunnes or Aldi?

Also, I wonder if frying with these oils is bad for you AT ALL?

Iristxo

I found avocado oil in Tesco in Dundrum a couple of times but they're out now. The health store told me they can order it in specifically for you if you ask for it. I do not like it too much because the flavour of it is very strong to my taste. I thought frying with olive oil was ok so long as it wasn't extra virgin olive oil? I thought I read something like that in here.

Macha

Sesame oil? I find it gives a good flavour to stir frys.

Muffin top

Ok, so I read a view articles there; an article in the American Dietetic Association explains thay when stir frying:

Oil temperature should be considered. When oil burns it becomes toxic and free radicals are produced. When oil smokes, you should throw it away.

No oil is mentioned as being favoured over another to counteract this process.

In another article, same journal, a study was carried out and it was stated how stir frying was more preferable than other forms of cooking such as microwaving and broiling for nutrient retention.

As for the best way to go..Steaming:best for capturing nutrients. This cooking method also takes no oil, so you miss out on some of the fat.

There's always a raw food diet!

I stir fry with rice bran oil. It has a has high smoke point, mild flavour, is cheap and high in antioxidants, including vitamin e and a ldl cholesterol lowering compound.

Tesco stock it, but in a plastic bottle. It is supposed to be a stable oil though.

Apparently it can fade freckles if you apply it to the face too. :P

Transform

use butter or coconut oil for cooking with all other oils are destroyed and denatured by heating them.

The former have higher burn temps so not destroyed unless you are over cooking them.

Transform

Moonbaby wrote: »

I stir fry with rice bran oil. It has a has high smoke point, mild flavour, is cheap and high in antioxidants, including vitamin e and a ldl cholesterol lowering compound.

Tesco stock it, but in a plastic bottle. It is supposed to be a stable oil though.

Apparently it can fade freckles if you apply it to the face too. :P

all of which are destroyed by cooking and no where near the burn point of butter and coconut oil.

steaming your veg all the time gets boring - roasted peppers, onions, garlic, sweet potato and butternut squash etc my fave

runswithascript

This website shows what oils to use at different temperatures and mentions all the oils mentioned thus far in this thread.

Looks like it's going to be canola, safflower or avocado for stir fry. I'll try Aldi, Dunnes and then tesco.

Hmm I'm not sure how easy it will be to get canola oil.

Still wondering if they are at all bad for you though.

runswithascript

On second thoughts it appears canola is out as it gets a lot of bad press. It's not natural, comes from a poisonous plant, and is said to by some to be toxic.

Transform

LA3G wrote: »

On second thoughts it appears canola is out as it gets a lot of bad press. It's not natural, comes from a poisonous plant, and is said to by some to be toxic.

no one is going to win or lose due to the bloody oil they add to a stir fry - there are bigger issues to contend with

runswithascript

Transform wrote: »

no one is going to win or lose due to the bloody oil they add to a stir fry - there are bigger issues to contend with

I eat it everyday and everything else I eat is healthy so it is an issue for me. If you've nothing productive to say don't bother.

Macha

LA3G wrote: »

If you've nothing productive to say don't bother.

I think Transform is just trying to help you not sweat the small stuff.

No need for such a confrontational tone.

Transform

Transform wrote: »

all of which are destroyed by cooking and no where near the burn point of butter and coconut oil.

I've been looking further into it, and it seems that there is a huge marketing lobby promoting the oil.
The one I get in tesco, uses the term cold filtered. Which had lead me to believe it was extracted in a healthy manner. But it is actually processed using the solvent hexane.

What kind of temperatures destroy antioxidants?

Muffin top

steaming your veg all the time gets boring - roasted peppers, onions, garlic, sweet potato and butternut squash etc my fave[/QUOTE]


Yeah, alot of people say that; I think when you use oil though it overpowers the veg instead of complimeting it; as in all you taste is oil. I prefer to add herbs or that after my boring steaming. Butternut squash and cinnamon yummy or onion drenched in balsamic.

sxt

Interesting info on cooking oil here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil


Smoking point for olive oil

190 °C (374 °F) (virgin) olive oil
210 °C (410 °F) (refined)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil

runswithascript

sxt wrote: »

Interesting info on cooking oil here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil


Smoking point for olive oil

190 °C (374 °F) (virgin) olive oil
210 °C (410 °F) (refined)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil

Yeah, I saw the different smoking points on Wikipeadia earlier today. I've also read that frying typically reaches a maximum temperature of 274 °C.

From the smoking point table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point it's clear avocado, which is said to be on par with olive oil for its apparently healthful ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats, has the highest smoking point at 271 °C. Olive oil (extra light) and olive oil (pomace) are further down the table at 242 °C and 238 °C respectively.

Does this mean that the beneficial components of the oil will survive cooking to these temperatures, or could they transform before the actual smoking points? The following has me curious:

In general, monounsaturated fat increases the stability of a vegetable oil in comparison to polyunsaturated fat. This increased stability is related to the chemical structure of monounsaturated fat. MUFAs have fewer "reactive spots" than PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) and it is more difficult for oxygen radicals to interact with these kinds of fat. However, despite this lower reactivity, olive oil and other vegetable oils containing a high amount of MUFAs (like canola oil) still have relatively low smoke points and cannot withstand a large amount of heat. Unless these high-MUFA oils have been refined or conditioned in a way that increases their smoke point, they typically cannot withstand heats of much greater than 200-250˚F (93-121˚C) without incurring damage (the temperature of stove-top frying is 375-525˚F, or 191-274˚C).

Even extra virgin olive oil has a smoke point of only 191 ˚C, so maybe the 121 ˚C is referencing only a component of these oils?

Transform

LA3G wrote: »

I eat it everyday and everything else I eat is healthy so it is an issue for me. If you've nothing productive to say don't bother.

LOL!!

Careful now or is that the acrylamide in your stir frys talking

Transform

Muffin top wrote: »

steaming your veg all the time gets boring - roasted peppers, onions, garlic, sweet potato and butternut squash etc my fave

Yeah, alot of people say that; I think when you use oil though it overpowers the veg instead of complimeting it; as in all you taste is oil. I prefer to add herbs or that after my boring steaming. Butternut squash and cinnamon yummy or onion drenched in balsamic.[/QUOTE]
totally agreed - we even have a small herb garden out our back for this

Transform

LA3G wrote: »

Yeah, I saw the different smoking points on Wikipeadia earlier today. I've also read that frying typically reaches a maximum temperature of 274 °C.

From the smoking point table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point it's clear avocado, which is said to be on par with olive oil for its apparently healthful ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats, has the highest smoking point at 271 °C. Olive oil (extra light) and olive oil (pomace) are further down the table at 242 °C and 238 °C respectively.

Does this mean that the beneficial components of the oil will survive cooking to these temperatures, or could they transform before the actual smoking points? The following has me curious:

Even extra virgin olive oil has a smoke point of only 191 ˚C, so maybe the 121 ˚C is referencing only a component of these oils?

its really simple - use butter or coconut oil.

ALL the others are destroyed even if you leave them out on a counter top due to light (they should be in smoked/dark bottles).

You are looking for a deeper answer that is not there and as mentioned before no point in mastering the minors

FTGFOP

Just on Canola oil, it's just the name for rapeseed oil in Canada and the US. It's in Tesco vegetable oil, blended with other oils.

Grapeseed oil is good because it's thin and spreads out more, and so you use less oil to coat the same area of your pan. I think it's got a pretty high smoke point too. I often hear peanut oil recommended for high heat frying too.

enda1

Something like this could be a useful reference.

Unfortunately its in stupid units, but I'm sure a bit more searching would find a better list.

In summary however, Refined Avocado Oil has the highest smoke point of the oils they list.

El_Dangeroso

You can buy de-odourised coconut oil that has a neutral flavour if you're not a fan of coconut.

I fry in ghee (clarified butter - much higher smoke temp) or beef tallow normally. You can get big tubs of ghee in an indian food shop or make your own.

If you're frying high, fry quick (<5 minutes), if your frying for a long time, fry low.

Transform

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

You can buy de-odourised coconut oil that has a neutral flavour if you're not a fan of coconut.

I fry in ghee (clarified butter - much higher smoke temp) or beef tallow normally. You can get big tubs of ghee in an indian food shop or make your own.

If you're frying high, fry quick (<5 minutes), if your frying for a long time, fry low.

totally agree with all of that

runswithascript

Transform wrote: »

its really simple - use butter or coconut oil.

ALL the others are destroyed even if you leave them out on a counter top due to light (they should be in smoked/dark bottles).

I won't be frying with butter anyway. You'd still advise coconut oil even though avocado has more health benefits and when cooked has a much higher smoke point?

Transform

LA3G wrote: »

I won't be frying with butter anyway. You'd still advise coconut oil even though avocado has more health benefits and when cooked has a much higher smoke point?

the tase alone of avocado oil is too much for many dishes so i would still go with coconut oil or just use any oil you like as the overall difference is quite minimal

sxt

Transform wrote: »

use butter or coconut oil for cooking with all other oils are destroyed and denatured by heating them.

The former have higher burn temps so not destroyed unless you are over cooking them.

I presume unrefined coconut oil is what you use... Can you get it in regular supermarkets?

Iristxo

One very silly question for you guys... if I set my oven at 180 degrees for the roasted veggies does that mean that that's the maximum temperature the oven will get to, therefore I can safely use extra virgin olive oil? I really do not like the taste of the avocado oil in my roasts

Iristxo

sxt wrote: »

I presume unrefined coconut oil is what you use... Can you get it in regular supermarkets?

No it should be virgin coconut oil, you get it in the health store and the likes

sxt

Iristxo wrote: »

No it should be virgin coconut oil, you get it in the health store and the likes

I think 'virgin' is a posh word for 'unrefined' , Would like to try it out though, I briefly remember seeing a tub of it in one of those health stores but then looked at the price and quickly put it back on the shelf

Iristxo

sxt wrote: »

I think 'virgin' is a posh word for 'unrefined' , Would like to try it out though, I briefly remember seeing a tub of it in one of those health stores but then looked at the price and quickly put it back on the shelf

Yes it is expensive

runswithascript

I was in Dublin City today and tried ALDI, LIDL and Tesco for avocado oil but none of them had it. A manager in Tesco said I could try Jervis because it's a bigger tesco.

Considering the extra virgin olive oil I've mistakenly been using to fry can transform into carcinogenics I went with the Tesco Cooking oil which is made from rapeseed, but like I've said already there is controversy over whether or not it really is healthy.

Does anyone know where I can get avocado oil?

Sapsorrow

Virgin just means the oil from the first pressing no? For frying the more saturated the fat the better so that means butter, ghee (good suggestion temple!) and coconut fat, because they are more stable to oxygen and heat. Why would you obther spending so much money on avocado oil when they're equally good alternatives? It feels wrong to me using an unsaturated fat for cooking. You can also do what I call a stir steam, you use a wok and a drop of water, put a lid on it and steam the veg on the hob until tender, then when just cooked take the lid off and allow the moisture to cook off a bit, then add the oil and cook for another min to get the cooked oil flavour with minimal chance of it getting damaged.

runswithascript

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Virgin just means the oil from the first pressing no? For frying the more saturated the fat the better so that means butter, ghee (good suggestion temple!) and coconut fat, because they are more stable to oxygen and heat./QUOTE]

Because the beneficial fats contained in avocado oil is on a par with that of extra virgin olive oil. And yes, it means first pressing.

Sapsorrow

LA3G wrote: »

Because the beneficial fats contained in avocado oil is on a par with that of extra virgin olive oil. And yes, it means first pressing.

Well if that's what you want to spend your money on grand, personally I'd prefer to spend the extra few quid on something with more value nutritionaly but then I don't have a big budget to play around with so I have to be savy with my groceries. I tend to get plenty of healthy fats in one way or another so getting even more from avocado oils isn't a priority for me. Coconut oil has many potential health benifits and is still way way cheaper. I don' think a tsp or so a day in a stir fry is going to work miracles for your health no matter the type, the priority should be to get one that is the least sensitive to heat and oxygen so at least if you're not getting any major benifits at least you're not doing any harm either.

kowloon

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I fry in ghee (clarified butter - much higher smoke temp) or beef tallow normally. You can get big tubs of ghee in an indian food shop or make your own.

+1, I made a big batch and froze a container for later. I'll be interested to see how it kept.

runswithascript

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Well if that's what you want to spend your money on grand, personally I'd prefer to spend the extra few quid on something with more value nutritionaly but then I don't have a big budget to play around with so I have to be savy with my groceries. I tend to get plenty of healthy fats in one way or another so getting even more from avocado oils isn't a priority for me. Coconut oil has many potential health benifits and is still way way cheaper. I don' think a tsp or so a day in a stir fry is going to work miracles for your health no matter the type, the priority should be to get one that is the least sensitive to heat and oxygen so at least if you're not getting any major benifits at least you're not doing any harm either.

Surely you are doing harm frying with something unhealthy, like butter etc. The reason I want to fry with something healthy is almost as much to ingest something healthy as to not do so.

The reason people saying frying is unhealthy is because of the oil used, I'm trying to negate that.

Sapsorrow

LA3G wrote: »

Surely you are doing harm frying with something unhealthy, like butter etc. The reason I want to fry with something healthy is almost as much to ingest something healthy as to not do so.

The reason people saying frying is unhealthy is because of the oil used, I'm trying to negate that.

Like I said 1 tsp or so of oil a day really isn't going to make much difference to the quality of your diet, if you're really concerned about fat intake get yourself some fish oil supplements for a serious benefit. I know olive oil has been hyped up to bits in the media etc but really it's not the elixer of life, there's so many more important aspects of diet and health worth focusing attention on.
Why is butter or coconut fat unhealthy? I wouldn't advise saying the saturated fat content unless you want one hell of a response though

morningpeasant

Iristxo wrote: »

One very silly question for you guys... if I set my oven at 180 degrees for the roasted veggies does that mean that that's the maximum temperature the oven will get to, therefore I can safely use extra virgin olive oil? I really do not like the taste of the avocado oil in my roasts

I would love to know the answer to this too!

El_Dangeroso

Iristxo wrote: »

One very silly question for you guys... if I set my oven at 180 degrees for the roasted veggies does that mean that that's the maximum temperature the oven will get to, therefore I can safely use extra virgin olive oil? I really do not like the taste of the avocado oil in my roasts

Smoking is a definite sign that fat is being damaged, but polyunsaturated fat gets damaged well below its smoke point. Olive oil contains about 10% polyunsaturated fat so not ideal for frying, hence ghee and coconut oil being the best choices. Even then it's best not to fry everything you eat, 4-5 times a week is fine though.

And for anyone concerned about their cholesterol, coconut oil and butter does wonders for your HDL or good cholesterol. High HDL is the one thing that all people who live for 100 years or over have in common.

Khannie

LA3G wrote: »

Surely you are doing harm frying with something unhealthy, like butter etc.

What makes you think butter is unhealthy?

sxt

Khannie wrote: »

What makes you think butter is unhealthy?

Would it be best to take it in moderation though... I used to eat alot of butter every day on my toast and making scrambed eggs etc...

Khannie

I dunno. I used to think that butter was bad, but now my (limited) understanding is that butter is good. Mostly I don't really worry about it. Butter is delicious on stuff and pretty good for frying with. As such I use it quite a bit. Today I have had it with all 3 meals that I've had so far. I'm in good nick and I think eating butter is part of that. I used to think that the sunflower oil you buy in the supermarket was good ("polyunsaturated blah blah") but now my (again, limited) understanding is that it is almost certainly pure muck.

Mostly this thread feels like the OP is sweating the details when those details just don't need sweat spilled over them.

runswithascript

Frying with butter burns it and it burns it very easily, there is no way this is good for you, and it's a non-starter never minding whether you believe butter to be healthy or not healthy to begin with.

People are saying that this isn't important, if you feel like that that's fine but I do feel it's important because I fry a lot. I wish I could just get a straight answer either from this thread or the rest of the internet that wasn't contradicted by a simple Google search.

Coconut oil has been suggested but I've researched it and found people who claim it's not good for you, it also has a much lower smoke point than avocado oil so it will burn off easier and it's not nearly as beneficial to start with.

I thought I was onto something with the rapeseed/canola oil but again there is controvery surrounding this oil, how it's formed, the unnatural combination of it's makeup, and the fact that it comes from a poisonous plant to begin with.

The benefits of avocado oil are the equivalent to those of extra virgin olive oil but it has the highest smoke point of all the cooking oils so you are safer with it. The smoke point of avocado oil is just under, and by that I mean a handful of degrees, of the maximum maximum temperature a typical hob will allow you to fry with.

Burning off your oils doesn't just negate the benefits, it creates carcinogens. As someone who frys most days I don't feel that I'm taking this too seriously or that it doesn't matter. Yes there are other important things like what I'm eating in the first place, but that's not why I created this thread, the topic of this thread is no less the topic of this thread.